RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (Full Version)

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BBfanboy -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (12/30/2020 2:56:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

It is the ACM which sits in port and does its job - don't forget to refuel them!

ACM maintains your own minefields every day, but I have never heard of them auto-sweeping enemy mines (although they are capable of sweeping if you put them in a MS TF).
I think there has to be a DL on the minefield before the AMc will auto-sweep.




rustysi -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (12/30/2020 9:27:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

I don't think it was ever implemented, but I think the developers wanted the the AMc to sit in port, and self sortie if a minefield was laid at the home port.


This is exactly how to use them. Yes, it works, all you need is to have one in port. It'll activate when needed sweep the minefield and deactivate all behind the scenes.

Are you sure this is working? I tested this sometime back and confirmed it was NOT working and I don't recall that Michael ever addressed this. Does anyone have an update note where it was fixed? I've only ever gotten them to work by using them in an active TF ....


quote:

I think there has to be a DL on the minefield before the AMc will auto-sweep.


Its been a while, but IIRC I hit a mine somewhere in the Solomons, moved an AMc to the base and shortly thereafter the mine symbol disappeared. Could it have been minefield decay? I'm not sure, but the AMc was locally based and took only a day or two to arrive. I further recall that the mine took out a barge, so the movement that resulted in the 'hit' was a regular occurrence.

This 'hit' obviously did reveal the minefield, so maybe BBfanboy's comment is valid.









PaxMondo -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (12/31/2020 12:42:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

I don't think it was ever implemented, but I think the developers wanted the the AMc to sit in port, and self sortie if a minefield was laid at the home port.


This is exactly how to use them. Yes, it works, all you need is to have one in port. It'll activate when needed sweep the minefield and deactivate all behind the scenes.

Are you sure this is working? I tested this sometime back and confirmed it was NOT working and I don't recall that Michael ever addressed this. Does anyone have an update note where it was fixed? I've only ever gotten them to work by using them in an active TF ....


quote:

I think there has to be a DL on the minefield before the AMc will auto-sweep.


Its been a while, but IIRC I hit a mine somewhere in the Solomons, moved an AMc to the base and shortly thereafter the mine symbol disappeared. Could it have been minefield decay? I'm not sure, but the AMc was locally based and took only a day or two to arrive. I further recall that the mine took out a barge, so the movement that resulted in the 'hit' was a regular occurrence.

This 'hit' obviously did reveal the minefield, so maybe BBfanboy's comment is valid.



In the absence of further proof/evidence I would attribute it to mine field decay. A sub load of mines (~30) is only going to last a week or two tops, and if a few were hit, even less time.

I know at one point early on it was NOT implemented. I don't recall Michael ever putting it in, but I could have missed it. I never tested it again during Michael's tenure, that much I do know ...

Maybe Alfred will stop by, but I think he has addressed this several times ....




RangerJoe -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (12/31/2020 1:05:43 AM)

page 134 from the Ebook:

6.6.1.2.1 MINEFIELD DECAY.
The number of mines in a minefield in deep water decays by 33% per day, in shallow water by
5% per day, and in friendly bases with at least a size 1 port by 1% per day.




Alfred -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (12/31/2020 2:23:08 AM)

True minesweepers don't need to have a DL on a minefield to sweep.

Alfred




BBfanboy -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (12/31/2020 3:52:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

True minesweepers don't need to have a DL on a minefield to sweep.

Alfred

But the question is whether, when disbanded in port, they will automatically form themselves into a TF and begin sweeping?




RangerJoe -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (12/31/2020 1:41:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

True minesweepers don't need to have a DL on a minefield to sweep.

Alfred

But the question is whether, when disbanded in port, they will automatically form themselves into a TF and begin sweeping?


No. Beginning on page 136, there is no mention of an automatic TF creation to sweep mines.

quote:

6.6.2 MINE SWEEPING
Valid ships, in a Mine Sweeping or Local Mine Sweeping TF, sweep minefields.

6.6.2.1. CREATION
Valid minesweeping capable ships, in a Mine Sweeping or Local Mine Sweeping TF, sweep a
minefield by having minesweeping orders, for a given a DH (destination hex) location for the
minefield to be swept. If a Mine Warfare TF is clearing mines in a hex that contains coastal
guns, the TF may be fired on.

6.6.2.1.1 MINESWEEPING.
Regular minesweeping TFs may be created both by a player and by the AI. When the AI
creates a Minesweeping TF, it may only include ships of a valid Minesweeping class. Regular
minesweeping TFs sweep 7 hexes; the hex they are in and the six surrounding hexes.

6.6.2.1.2. LOCAL MINESWEEPING.
Local minesweeping TFs may be created both by a player and by the AI. When the AI creates a
Local Minesweeping TF, it may only include ships of a valid ‘Local Minesweeping ‘ class. Local minesweeping TFs sweep only 1 hex, the DH. The AI will position Local Minesweeping TFs to
defend it’s major ports, if ships are available.

6.6.3. MINE WARFARE TASK FORCES TABLE
The Class types that are normally included in Minelaying or Minesweeping Task Forces are
given in the following Table.

(See Table, pages 137-138

A ship belonging to any Class that has Special Mines as part of its weapons complement may
also be included in Mine Laying Task Forces.


On no! I am beginning to be like Alfred, citing chapter and verse. [;)]

Joe

PS I have found that the Ansyu PB is an excellent ship to sweep mines although it does it slowly. But it is large enough to take a mine hit and not sink but disband into the port immediately. If you don't need to rush into a newly captured port, that is something to consider.

For the Japanese, I guess that the LB would be a nice class to use to detect mines. If they hit one and sink, you only lose the supplies needed to create it and not any VPs for a useful ship.




rustysi -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (12/31/2020 6:41:13 PM)

OK, this is an old topic and has been raised a number of times on the forum. When I get time I'll search for other threads and we'll see what they say.




BBfanboy -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (12/31/2020 7:41:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

OK, this is an old topic and has been raised a number of times on the forum. When I get time I'll search for other threads and we'll see was they say.

There are some who swear, and post screenshots to show that AMc's disbanded in port do automatically sweep mines and others who post equally compelling evidence that they do not. That is why I was eagerly hoping Alfred could look at the code and say definitively which is true. It may be that the supposed auto-sweeping is just minefield decay as I do not recall anyone posting a combat report saying the AMc's swept x number of mines.




rustysi -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (1/1/2021 7:42:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

OK, this is an old topic and has been raised a number of times on the forum. When I get time I'll search for other threads and we'll see was they say.


I'm back. Here's a thread which has bunches of leads on this topic. A great place to start is with Alfred's post 60. The link leads to other links.

From what I've read in these threads the functions works.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3535609&mpage=2&key=AMc#




RangerJoe -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (1/1/2021 10:52:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

OK, this is an old topic and has been raised a number of times on the forum. When I get time I'll search for other threads and we'll see was they say.

There are some who swear, and post screenshots to show that AMc's disbanded in port do automatically sweep mines and others who post equally compelling evidence that they do not. That is why I was eagerly hoping Alfred could look at the code and say definitively which is true. It may be that the supposed auto-sweeping is just minefield decay as I do not recall anyone posting a combat report saying the AMc's swept x number of mines.


I have seen posts wwhere AMcs have swept mines. But I sit corrected as I have found information on things that were apparently included after the manual as printed. This was from Da Babes stuff that entered the game:

Don Bowen

quote:

The AI will use the small minesweepers to form local minesweeper TFs at it's ports. The Minefield tenders are distributed (by the AI) to maintain defensive minefields based on size of port and number of mines. The small patrol types are used to form local defensive ASW patrols.

The player should pretty much do the same. Small patrol types can also be used for escorts in barge, landing craft, and various transport TFs (endurance being a limiting issue).

Another excellent use of small patrol types is routine patrols between two nearby bases. Lunga-Tulagi for instance, or Fukuoka-Fusan, or Batavia-Merak-Oosthaven, or maybe Oak Harbor-Victoria-Vancouver. Use the patrol zone feature with refueling option and you have a "set and forget" local ASW patrol (although you may have to bring in a little fuel once it a while). If you use small ports, bring in an AG and YO or small Tanker and create a temporary patrol base.


post 125

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2064265&mpage=5&key=hdml%26%2365533%3B

Post 126

JWE

quote:

Very, very useful little thingys.

There are several different game designations for these. These are what the game terms “Small Craft” and the AI builds its port defense TFs from these.

ACM is listed, although it isn’t used as an ASW platform. It prevents decay of defensive minefields and can lay the odd mine or two itself.

SC - Sub Chaser
PC - Patrol Craft
PB - Patrol Boat
YP - District Patrol Craft
MTB - Motor Torpedo Boat
MGB - Motor Gun Boat
HDML - Harbor Defense Motor Launch
ML - Motor Launch
YMS - Motor Minesweeper
AMc - Coastal Minesweeper

ACM - Minefield Tender


Your staff will use them like the AI. These may be the vessels that the Coastwatchers see but are not there when you recon the port.

To get to that thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3535609&mpage=2&key=AMc#

then:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3262414&mpage=1&key=boats�

then:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2055886&mpage=1&key=subchasers%26%2365533%3B

Finally:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2064265&mpage=5&key=hdml%26%2365533%3Bhttps://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2064265&mpage=5&key=hdml%26%2365533%3B

But all of those threads were over a year old by the time that I joined the forum.[:(]




ScottyG -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (1/21/2021 5:43:24 PM)

I do not see what type of tender repairs battleships nor cruisers???




BBfanboy -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (1/21/2021 5:51:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ScottyG

I do not see what type of tender repairs battleships nor cruisers???

If you have an ARD that has a bigger capacity than the displacement of the ship, the ship can go in it and repair float damage.

ARs can help repair Engine and up to 5 points of Float damage IIRC.

Check Alfred's ship repair guide 101.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2990845&mpage=1&key=




RangerJoe -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (1/21/2021 6:00:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ScottyG

I do not see what type of tender repairs battleships nor cruisers???


I think that it is green button time so I don't have to read questions like this.




Yaab -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (1/21/2021 6:09:31 PM)

RangerJoe, for the sake of the thread, support forumites tenderly.




RangerJoe -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (1/21/2021 6:16:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

RangerJoe, for the sake of the thread, support forumites tenderly.


I had. I repeatedly answered his questions but would not accept my answers nor answers from other people. He was using the wrong manual as well. He wants a ship for only repairing cruisers and another ship only for repairing battleships?[8|]




Yaab -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (1/21/2021 6:36:00 PM)

Basically, ARCA and ARBB classes.




btd64 -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (1/21/2021 6:57:21 PM)

If he would just READ THE F@@##&&@ MANUAL he might answer his own questions....GP




RangerJoe -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (1/21/2021 6:59:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Basically, ARCA and ARBB classes.


How about the ABBA class?

What about the aircraft carriers? Do light carriers (CVLs) get a different tender than the fleet carriers (CVs)? Not to mention the escort carriers (CVEs)? How about one tender for one ship - it can only work on that respective ship and no other ship?




Sardaukar -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (1/21/2021 8:50:22 PM)

I think you are referring to Tinder classes now...




BBfanboy -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (1/21/2021 9:45:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

RangerJoe, for the sake of the thread, support forumites tenderly.


I had. I repeatedly answered his questions but would not accept my answers nor answers from other people. He was using the wrong manual as well. He wants a ship for only repairing cruisers and another ship only for repairing battleships?[8|]

Easy now - there are AGs for small patrol vessels and ADs for DDs and ASs for SSs - it is not to wild an idea to think there may be tenders for repair of CAs and BBs.
Of course the manual contains the answers in convenient table form, but not everyone learns by reading - some prefer to learn by seeing an example play out or just asking. Just keep the redirects to the manual and forum links coming.




RangerJoe -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (1/21/2021 10:07:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

RangerJoe, for the sake of the thread, support forumites tenderly.


I had. I repeatedly answered his questions but would not accept my answers nor answers from other people. He was using the wrong manual as well. He wants a ship for only repairing cruisers and another ship only for repairing battleships?[8|]

Easy now - there are AGs for small patrol vessels and ADs for DDs and ASs for SSs - it is not to wild an idea to think there may be tenders for repair of CAs and BBs.
Of course the manual contains the answers in convenient table form, but not everyone learns by reading - some prefer to learn by seeing an example play out or just asking. Just keep the redirects to the manual and forum links coming.


Those repair ships for the CAs and BBS, as well as any other ship, are the ARs. If he would look things up as well as attempt to comprehend what is presented, that would help me. But I did Green Button him.

quote:

ScottyG

This user is on your "block" list and the message has been blocked.
Click here to unblock this user and view this post.


http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4945615

See, I even posted the link!




Gunner98 -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (10/1/2021 11:17:09 AM)

Hello all,

I've searched around a little but am having difficulty finding reference to YO type ships 'Yard Oilers'. I suppose my question is what do people use them for? They have a small fuel cargo capacity - are they meant to simply aid refueling in port, or are they just handy fuel transports.

Is there a thread discussing them (there seems to be one on most other things [sm=00000436.gif]

Thanks




RangerJoe -> RE: Tender and Support/Auxillary Ship Guide (10/1/2021 11:31:07 AM)

Those were used in ports but you can also use them to move small amounts of fuel/oil around to smaller ports as well. Treat them like small AOs and you would not be wrong. They are useful little ships.




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