RE: T5 Far vs M60 and larry (Full Version)

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Baelfiin -> RE: T5 Far vs M60 and larry (1/11/2012 3:40:57 AM)

doesnt look like much quality troops defending those forts.

If you have a bunch of cub scouts holding the line, out of communication, prob got bombed a couple times prior, doenst matter what the fort level is. In this case i would demote the defenders to webelos =p

This is why we need an option to choose that can allow units to take extra casualties instead of retreating, so that there can be some last ditch stands and sieges like there was historically. Would solve a lot of problems, plus make it more interesting to play defense.



M60A3TTS -> RE: T5 Far vs M60 and larry (1/11/2012 4:23:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

doesnt look like much quality troops defending those forts.

If you have a bunch of cub scouts holding the line, out of communication, prob got bombed a couple times prior, doenst matter what the fort level is. In this case i would demote the defenders to webelos =p

This is why we need an option to choose that can allow units to take extra casualties instead of retreating, so that there can be some last ditch stands and sieges like there was historically. Would solve a lot of problems, plus make it more interesting to play defense.


The 25th Rifle Division was Morale 50, Experience 48 @ 70% strength, 11547 men. That was a pretty good division.

The 276th Rifle Division was Morale 42, Experience 34 @ 34% strength, 5298 men and was unready.



vlcz -> RE: T5 Far vs M60 and larry (1/11/2012 9:18:21 AM)

Fort 5 =>0?? with Eng => 0?????? can you show the full list of attacking units? specially interested in the artillery SUs they used



M60A3TTS -> RE: T5 Far vs M60 and larry (1/11/2012 1:41:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vlcz

Fort 5 =>0?? with Eng => 0?????? can you show the full list of attacking units? specially interested in the artillery SUs they used


See post #116. 3 divisions and 2 arty bns. The rest was planes. The fact that the fortress fell in one week, combined with light German losses is disappointing, but I'm used to these kind of results by now.



Peltonx -> RE: T5 Far vs M60 and larry (1/12/2012 2:37:07 PM)

I think Moscow can be held. I have several 1.05 games on going and in sevral I have not reached it. In several I have taken it but had to give it back during blizzard.

In some AAR's Moscow is lost, but the Russian player has used it as bait. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2989357&mpage=3&key=

I think you should have given up on Leningrad and started Moscow's north western defensive lines sooner as it was clear the city was lost at that point. You still have put a hurt on him, but your plan of holding Leningrad to turn 10 has worked, but it did not save Moscow.

Each game is different and very few follow the same script as I have found out in 19 odd games now.

Stay as close as you can to Moscow and you should be able to use it to your advantage come blizzard.



larryfulkerson -> RE: T14 Far vs M60 and larry (1/13/2012 3:03:05 AM)

This is the Axis moves for T14 and the Soviet moves from T13:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/0F8E1C258E90451AAF2917E285ECC8E9.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: T14 Far vs M60 and larry (1/13/2012 3:14:34 AM)

Here's the counts from the Axis half of T14:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/611A0FCEA81443B09B8F18508099C030.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: T14 Far vs M60 and larry (1/13/2012 3:18:17 AM)

Here's the production figures for T14:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/FB325DF37A954B2F9D30000DE7E321C4.gif[/image]



Farfarer61 -> RE: T14 Far vs M60 and larry (1/13/2012 4:51:38 PM)

Thought I would add some recent screenshots - no I didn't read the recent AAR posts!

[image]local://upfiles/13142/ABA3240918384DF8BB692A470295D77A.jpg[/image]



Farfarer61 -> RE: T14 Far vs M60 and larry (1/13/2012 4:52:30 PM)

AGN Turn 12

[image]local://upfiles/13142/BBAB316E3EAC4F4781AD994F65C4AD01.jpg[/image]



Farfarer61 -> RE: T14 Far vs M60 and larry (1/13/2012 4:54:03 PM)

Crimean Mud

[image]local://upfiles/13142/A7A773828D61465694ECB7DC5AB43AAE.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: T14 Far vs M60 and larry (1/15/2012 3:01:52 PM)

This should be the Soviet moves for T14 and the Axis moves for T15

[image]local://upfiles/16287/03E4DEA014CE4943977BE7813E87B8AC.gif[/image]



sillyflower -> RE: T14 Far vs M60 and larry (1/15/2012 5:29:04 PM)

I've just looked at this AAR for the 1st time in ages.

I'm amazed Germans have got so far, but it's because you gave up so much ground without making a fight of it. Russian casualties are admittedly low but the price is your economy must be in tatters ( what are your factory losses?) and your manpower production way down.

You have plenty of NKVD ants at the start who are no use for anything else; for example you should have put one back in Pskov immediately after if fell. You also have lots of paras which you can use. I don't mind losing a few as they slow up the Nazis quite a lot and buy valuable time. Use the main forces to do deep checkerboards/ more linear defences where the terrain is favourable and/or where he will be at the end of his MPs etc. Anything but let him run free.

The other half of this approach is you have to know when too fall back a bit otherwise you can get pocketed badly, which leaves you without enough units to conduct the sort of defence I've suggested.

If you give Jerry lots of running room he will use it and his infantry will be able to march up at 12 hexes or so a turn to crush you wherever you try to make a stand.



M60A3TTS -> RE: T14 Far vs M60 and larry (1/16/2012 2:39:47 PM)

Here is the current production. We lost the MiG-3 factories of Moscow which hurts somewhat, although they go obsolete later in the year. The other Moscow aircraft factories got out in part, except for the U2VS. I wonder why. [;)] All the tank factories were evacuated in part. Where we got hurt was in vehicles, and only have 90. Arms we lost 50, but should lose no more.

[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/LandET15prod.jpg[/image]

In terms of territory given up without a fight, I think that's largely untrue except in the southwest where once he is over the Dnepr, there isn't any option. You either get out or get pocketed. We've had the big Leningrad pocket and the one north of Moscow following the usual ones of Turn 1. Other than that we have avoided anything else substantial.

Farfarer is a good, experienced player and we have our hands full. He can pretty much go where he pushes his panzers until the supply situation slows him down. But Larry and I have enough experience to deal with this, yes even with Moscow lost which I will maintain is much more the norm now in 1.0.5.






M60A3TTS -> T18 Far vs M60 and larry (1/21/2012 9:17:56 PM)

Mud and the Axis are having problems with supply and disheartened allies.

[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/FanT18.jpg[/image]

With our losses at about 2.5 million to date, I believe our opponent is going to really be feeling the blizzard in this one. You'll note that 5th Guards Rifle Division participated in the attack, and there are going to be more of those coming for a while.



larryfulkerson -> RE: T18 Far vs M60 and larry (1/25/2012 8:07:16 PM)

This is the front lines from turn 15 compared with the front lines in T20:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/EE382257A78C4A4DA69492B137DD175E.gif[/image]



M60A3TTS -> T22 Far vs M60 and larry (1/28/2012 4:22:25 AM)

Here is our OOB on Turn 22
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/LandEOOBT22.png[/image]

Losses
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/LandElossesT22.jpg[/image]

Rifle and cavalry divisions ordered by # of wins. 16 guards rifle divisions and counting
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/LandET22infandcavwins.jpg[/image]



terje439 -> RE: T22 Far vs M60 and larry (1/28/2012 6:08:45 AM)

A question as I try to learn as much as possible;
why Zhukov at Stavka? Is not he better used as a frontline general?


Terje



Flaviusx -> RE: T22 Far vs M60 and larry (1/28/2012 6:35:26 AM)

Zhukov isn't a bad choice for STAVKA until it overloads. He can help mitigate the command and control mess you start with. Shaposhnikov has a better admin rating, but only slightly, and much worse stats otherwise. If you want more help for your combat rolls, then Zhukov is the way to go, if you want to squeeze out some more movement points, then Shaposhnikov is the (slightly) better choice.

STAVKA will overload around October of 41. When that happens, then you need to put Zhukov in charge of a non overloaded Front. If none exist, then an army. As for who takes charge of STAVKA, that won't matter very much as it will eventually get so overloaded that it will cease to have any influence on the game.




terje439 -> RE: T22 Far vs M60 and larry (1/28/2012 7:03:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Zhukov isn't a bad choice for STAVKA until it overloads. He can help mitigate the command and control mess you start with. Shaposhnikov has a better admin rating, but only slightly, and much worse stats otherwise. If you want more help for your combat rolls, then Zhukov is the way to go, if you want to squeeze out some more movement points, then Shaposhnikov is the (slightly) better choice.

STAVKA will overload around October of 41. When that happens, then you need to put Zhukov in charge of a non overloaded Front. If none exist, then an army. As for who takes charge of STAVKA, that won't matter very much as it will eventually get so overloaded that it will cease to have any influence on the game.




[&o]



M60A3TTS -> RE: T22 Far vs M60 and larry (1/30/2012 1:30:43 AM)

Here is a screen shot of the partial front the week before blizzard. Recon has confirmed that the Germans have not built any fortifications in preparation for winter. Apparently OKH has expressed the sentiment that defensive fortifications are unnecessary and unworthy of the German soldier, nor does it does not represent the Germanic people in a sufficinently favorable light. Also, talks of the temperatures falling to 50 degrees below freezing in the coming weeks is the talk of defeatists and traitors within the Reich. Winter clothing will remain in the warehouses as the Soviets are no doubt defeated and will surrender any day now.

[image]http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/9818/landet24south.jpg[/image]



Wuffer -> RE: T22 Far vs M60 and larry (1/30/2012 2:08:35 AM)

hardly to imagine a better start for your offensive, these infiltrations look really promising... Looks like he wanted to save too much (divisions), good luck!





M60A3TTS -> Week 35 (2/12/2012 8:04:09 PM)

We haven't posted in a while, but the short story is that farfarer fled back to the borders of the Reich. D and Z towns, Kiev and Smolensk were liberated, along with other cities along the Dnepr. The ravaged rail situation behind us meant the need for a bunch of RR brigades and that a futher advance west would be downright deadly in time as the Axis is preparing to come back bigger and badder than ever. Meanwhile, Comrade General Larry and myself prepare a Carpet of Doom for our opponent. With the latest patch, we're bringing a fresh set of Combined Arms Army HQs on line to stay within command limits.

We should hit about 7 million men by March. [:)]



M60A3TTS -> Week 50 (3/6/2012 10:58:04 PM)

Almost into June and the Axis has decided to focus attacks on the north as the south is rather muddy. Due to the lack of overall fighting for several months, both sides are pretty loaded up.

[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/landeT50.jpg[/image]

We have 20 tank and 16 cav corps plus about 515 rifle division equivalents.



M60A3TTS -> The War Resumes (5/15/2012 12:31:27 AM)

This game had been put to bed after Larry transferred his interest to the Pacific (WiTP AE). At the time, I really didn't have much interest of my own in continuing but having been idle a couple months and having had the opportunity to run through some test battles in the last turn (105) from Pelton's game, I asked Farfarer if he wanted to continue. He wants to do so, and therefore we will now resume the conflict.

We are now at Week 51 and the rasputitsa is coming to an end. The OOB from the previous post displays clearly that both sides are well loaded up. The Axis withdrawal far to the west during the blizzard meant relatively few losses for both sides. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

In reviewing the overall situation, there are some issues. Larry left his defenses rather weak in spots. Also he chose to load up armies and fronts with a support level of 3 so there are quite a few ancillary units I'm not sure have a lot of value. I am resetting the support level to zero in the armies and fronts from the northern command (Larry's area) so I can flush those units to STAVKA and re-allocate the resources.

I also noted the fact the Red Army had 131 RR construction brigades and 51 sapper regiments. The main reason for so many RR brigades was the great advance west in blizzard revealed a lot of damaged rail and it needed to get repaired before the Axis once again attacked east. This was quite successful, but now the RR brigades need to be pared down. With 366 AP available, I bit the bullet and disbanded 86 brigades, leaving total of 45. I will be adding at least 100 new sapper regiments later, but I'll ramp them up gradually. They will be used for the existing and new corps SUs as well as for army support.

I'll have to keep a close eye out on the available trucks as only 90 factory points remain. Arms points are a healthy 320 so things should be fine there.

There are 24 motorized brigades assigned to the far eastern MDs and will form 8 mech corps at a later date. I won't build a lot of rifle corps as I did in my gane against Pelton, and am counting on all these rifle divisions to carry the burden of summer. With a much more extensive use of reserves, hopefully we will see some committments with Zhukov in command of STAVKA.

Most armies are being kept at their command limit of 18 or not far over, so at least this game won't require a major reorg in that area. The Voronezh Front has been activated this week.

And so...on with the show.



76mm -> RE: The War Resumes (5/16/2012 4:44:56 AM)

M60 thanks for restarting. Could you give a bit more detail about why he pulled back to far during the blizzard? Did you capture many divisions, or did he do a pre-emptive retreat?

BTW, what is up with your game with Pelton?



glvaca -> RE: Week 50 (5/16/2012 7:13:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Almost into June and the Axis has decided to focus attacks on the north as the south is rather muddy. Due to the lack of overall fighting for several months, both sides are pretty loaded up.

[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/landeT50.jpg[/image]

We have 20 tank and 16 cav corps plus about 515 rifle division equivalents.


Loaded up!? You're super pimped! [X(]
With such an army, I'd certainly build quite a few Rifle Corps. Something in the order of 20 should not be too much of a problem with an 8+ million army.



M60A3TTS -> RE: The War Resumes (5/17/2012 5:26:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

M60 thanks for restarting. Could you give a bit more detail about why he pulled back to far during the blizzard? Did you capture many divisions, or did he do a pre-emptive retreat?

BTW, what is up with your game with Pelton?


I'll start with Pelton's game first. I decided to quit playing it as my initial attacks were stopped cold in many cases by Pelton's mobile reserve committments. Being well east of Kursk and Moscow in June 43, facing an Axis fort carpet several hexes deep, limited reinforcements, and a realization later that I was far too short of sappers led me to conclude there was little to be gained by continuing. Pelton was very understanding of the situation and was fine with us stopping. Since then I've been using the last turn to do some various experiments to see how to crack such a line. I had some success with that, so my game with Farfarer should be better in '43.

Regarding Farfarer's withdrawal, he made no attempt to create a winter fort line of any kind. Why, I'm not sure. That gave him reason to pull back, although I hardly expected him to retreat so far. The payoff here is that a lot of Soviet manpower centers were liberated, allowing the army to grow in numbers. I did surround and destroy a few Axis divisions, but there was far less winter combat than have been displayed in other AARs.



M60A3TTS -> RE: The War Resumes (5/17/2012 5:27:37 PM)

double post



M60A3TTS -> RE: Week 50 (5/17/2012 5:39:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: glvaca

[Loaded up!? You're super pimped! [X(]
With such an army, I'd certainly build quite a few Rifle Corps. Something in the order of 20 should not be too much of a problem with an 8+ million army.


The thing about early rifle corps is that when you first form them, their headcount will be way above their TO&E. Then in subsequent turns, the manpower will bleed off, turning a 12 CV into a 6-7. Since I have a goodly # of 4 CV units, I will probably sit tight on rifle corps, unless they are needed in a critical situation. In July I will be creating several tank armies as well as ramping up the sapper regiments which will take a chunk of APs.

This will be a summer different from most as it is shaping up. The bulk of Axis armor is in the north, not the south. A drive to capture Moscow once again is in the offing. Meanwhile, Hungarian and Rumanian forces are presenting themselves as an inviting target in the Kiev region. Orders are already being issued for a counterstroke to be delivered by the Voronezh and Southwestern Fronts.

More to come...



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