RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (Full Version)

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Webbco -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/24/2011 4:48:55 PM)

A bit confused about the territory system - I colonised a planet, turned on the "show empire influence" button and saw that another empire was building a mining station within the borders...should they be allowed to do that?

I have not given them mining rights in my systems, but we do have a free trade agreement. It's also possible that they started building the station before I colonised the world. But still...



Spacecadet -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/24/2011 5:02:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grisha

Thumbs up here for Legends so far. Loading time is noticeably quicker, images look sharper too. Like the borders though I noticed a race I had a trade agreement with colonized within my borders. On the other hand, we were on very good terms.



The "edges" of the Sphere can fluctuate a bit depending on multiple factors, so if the Planet was outside your Sphere of control when they launched their Colony ship that would explain how that happened.

It could also be that their Colony ship was in transit before you colonized the planet creating the Sphere in question - don't forget, it can take quite some time for a ship to travel.






Erik Rutins -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/24/2011 5:08:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Webbco
A bit confused about the territory system - I colonised a planet, turned on the "show empire influence" button and saw that another empire was building a mining station within the borders...should they be allowed to do that?

I have not given them mining rights in my systems, but we do have a free trade agreement. It's also possible that they started building the station before I colonised the world. But still...


There can be some instances where "claims" are effectively simultaneous. This then creates territorial disputes, which can be negotiated or can create friction and eventually lead to conflict. There should not be an instance once the system is fully under your control where they can come and build a new mining station or colonize a planet without getting mining rights or declaring war on you.

Regards,

- Erik



WiZz -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/24/2011 5:26:27 PM)

I'm a bit confused with Naxxilians. They are only race that has disallowed techlology branch - armor. I think, it's not fair, because the ships of my lovely Naxxilians are completely vulnеrable to rail guns and more fragile. What about disallowed technogies of other races for balance?



Balakirev -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/24/2011 6:17:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yskonyn
The characters do give more personality to the various races. I would have liked seeing some variable character portraits though, instead of the single one with only a different icon for the type of character.


My reaction, too. Love the idea, which (I think) you probably developed from MOO II and MoM. But developing a range of slightly different images for each race would have been useful.

Borders. Yes!



nammafia -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/24/2011 6:19:34 PM)

Hello fellow Legenders, how do you get mod to work?  I am using my old ship set from ROTS but it does not work anymore in Legends.  Yes, I did change the theme to my mod instead of the default.  Am I missing something?  Thanks.



Grisha -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/24/2011 6:33:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

There can be some instances where "claims" are effectively simultaneous. This then creates territorial disputes, which can be negotiated or can create friction and eventually lead to conflict. There should not be an instance once the system is fully under your control where they can come and build a new mining station or colonize a planet without getting mining rights or declaring war on you.

Regards,

- Erik


That's the thing. In my instance the sphere of influence was generated by my homeworld, so it had been there from the start. The allies in question colonized one world that was arguably on the very border of my influence, but the next (and latter one) was well within my borders.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/24/2011 6:36:47 PM)

The sphere alone does not determine control. You have to explore the system and have it in your sphere of influence to have control over it. So if they started building there before you explored it, that would work.

Regards,

- Erik



Grisha -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/24/2011 6:37:44 PM)

I should qualify my previous statement. The planets being colonized were on unoccupied systems that were within my sphere of influence. I didn't have anything in those systems but at least one of them was squarely within my sphere of influence. 



Grisha -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/24/2011 6:41:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

The sphere alone does not determine control. You have to explore the system and have it in your sphere of influence to have control over it. So if they started building there before you explored it, that would work.

Regards,

- Erik



Okay, that could very well have been the case.

For a time I was playing games by building 5 exploration ships and then having the ten explorers explore only within the sector of my home system. That way I knew what I had closest to me. I think I might do something along those lines again after realizing how influence works.



Farrels -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/24/2011 9:25:21 PM)

Great expansion really enjoying it.

The UI has really matured now, its so easy to run a large empire

The characters and random events are well implemeted.

The AI is better but first impressions it seems to be a lot more passive and less likely to go to war than before.




elliotg -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/24/2011 9:43:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WiZz

I'm a bit confused with Naxxilians. They are only race that has disallowed techlology branch - armor. I think, it's not fair, because the ships of my lovely Naxxilians are completely vulnеrable to rail guns and more fragile. What about disallowed technogies of other races for balance?


You can change this by editing the Naxxilian race file (naxxilian.txt) in the races folder. Just change the setting DisallowedResearchArea1 from 6 to 0.



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/24/2011 9:48:08 PM)

I would suggest adding reasons for races being disallowed certain tech and also why the have unique techs in the race lore..It seems like it's just a random choice without it.



Jaimoe_MatrixForum -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/24/2011 9:54:47 PM)

So far I am having alot of fun playing this game.

I do have a warning though.....don't try to use your custom ship sets from the vanilla game or the RotS expansion when playing Legends. It doesn't work too well. I lost alot of ground when the AI thought my custom explorer was a colony ship design and built them whenever I used the expansion planner for building colony ships. So, time to start from scratch with my ship designs.



Gelatinous Cube -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/24/2011 11:38:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Farrels

Great expansion really enjoying it.

The UI has really matured now, its so easy to run a large empire

The characters and random events are well implemeted.

The AI is better but first impressions it seems to be a lot more passive and less likely to go to war than before.




Well, it depends on the victory conditions. I've tested several games with different conditions, and it seems to definitely affect the way the other empires behave. For example, if you set the only way to win as 100% Territory, the Kiadians will certainly declare war on you if you are at a disadvantage. However, if you make the race victory conditions the most important aspect, they will strive to meet those goals. Kiadians will try and ally with you, and will defend that alliance to the death. Boskarans, on the other hand, will attack the crap out of you in order to reach those goals.




hal9000 -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/24/2011 11:58:40 PM)

Really great update! the character system is the best I’ve seen so far, big up for that! As someone said before the galaxy feels much more alive now.
Its nice that there seem to be bigger alliances and bigger wars now. In my game there were three blocs which were waging war against each other constantly. Well, maybe a bit too frequently because it was impossible not get dragged into it, and I had problems with war weariness all the time, but still nice to have these large conflicts.

The thing I’m a bit disappointed with is the border system. Thought that the map would be less fragmented now, but it’s still the same mess and the same rush for the colonization techs.
In general it would be nice if the AI had a better sense for distance, starting with the exploration pattern of the scouts and ending with suggestions to attack or colonize on the other end of the map or sending construction ships to debris fields far out of refueling possibilities.
Also would be nice if starting positions were distributed more evenly across the galaxy, I had one game where 8 out of 10 empires where squeezed together in roughly two sectors on a 8x8sectors map.
But still, great game and a hell of an expansion!



Erik Rutins -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/25/2011 12:06:31 AM)

Hi hal9000,

Glad to hear you are enjoying the game!

You may want to try the v1.7.0.1 public beta as there is a tweak there that will definitely help with borders on some galaxy settings.

Regards,

- Erik



Raap -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/25/2011 12:15:36 AM)

Would it be an idea to add governor selection to the Colonies window and fleet admiral selection to the Fleets window? Just noticed I had to jump back to the colony window to check which one I wanted my new governor to occupy, then back to the agents tab. Might be more work than it's worth though, really just a slight annoyance.



elliotg -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/25/2011 1:12:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raap
Would it be an idea to add governor selection to the Colonies window and fleet admiral selection to the Fleets window? Just noticed I had to jump back to the colony window to check which one I wanted my new governor to occupy, then back to the agents tab. Might be more work than it's worth though, really just a slight annoyance.

That's a great idea Raap. See if we can add that for the next update.

Thanks
Elliot



MartialDoctor -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/25/2011 1:22:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi MartialDoctor,

A lot also depends on galaxy settings for aggression and what point in the game you are at (later game, things get a bit more cozy and then the more aggressive races get a little more active. Government type can also increase or decrease an aggressive race's tendencies (for example a Sluken Democracy, if near your Democracy is much less likely to go to war with you than a Sluken Military Dictatorship near your Democracy).

This is very unusual in my experience. How far into a game have you played? What were your galaxy settings?

If you are concerned, feel free to upload a save for us. There are so many possible galaxy setting combinations that it's very helpful to see a save anytime things behave differently from expectations.

Regards,

- Erik



Erik,

Thanks for the response. It seems that my initial galaxy was just heavily favored towards me [:)]

I restarted another game and have been having a more challenging experience.

And I have also noticed the races having more of an individual spirit to them. The reason everyone was so friendly was that it seems they all liked Shandar and the government of Utopian Paradise seemed to go well with them. When I ran into a Mortalen Military Dictatorship, they had different thoughts.

A couple of questions. It seems that the scale for relationships has changed. A scale of 10 seems to have more influence than it did before. For example, I am seeing races wanting trade relations at 5 - 10 while as, previously, they would never go for one that early. And a race declared war on me when at around -40 (this would also not have occurred before). Is this assumption correct?

Also, I haven't seen the covet response much at all. Has this been toned down greatly?

Nice work, though! It's looking good. [8D]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/25/2011 1:27:06 AM)

Hi MartialDoctor,

As mentioned in the Developer's Notes, the modifiers do influence things, but a lot now depends on a much deeper strategic calculation, more similar to how a human player would consider things. So the modifier is not as much of a barrier to trade or war if the AI feels it is the best strategic choice, but it definitely influences that decision (and a faction that is +20 and has a Mutual Defense Pact with you is not about to invade you the moment you lose your main fleet).

Regards,

- Erik



Raap -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/25/2011 1:30:18 AM)

Yeah, covet response seems changed. I've only one race out of nine that covets my stuff, and that's the race that has its homeworld basically right next to mine. None of the others, even though I have colonies close to them and far more colonies in total, appear to covet my stuff. Could this explain why it seems somewhat more peaceful now? Only homeworld distance triggers the covet response?

Odd thing, just had an overeager colony ship leave dock for its destination before it could fuel up. Never seen that before.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/25/2011 2:22:40 AM)

Initially, the territory system will keep the coveting lower than it was before, but as factions expand and the territories start to collide, it should rise to the similar levels as it was in previous releases.

Regards,

- Erik



LoBaron -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/25/2011 8:00:37 AM)

Just a short thumbs up on the expansion. I was only able to play for 1 hour yesterday, so
hardly anything to comment due to my slow and patient apporach to such games, but what you
did to performance is already very obvious.

Good work!



Stelteck -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/25/2011 1:12:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube
Well, it depends on the victory conditions. I've tested several games with different conditions, and it seems to definitely affect the way the other empires behave. For example, if you set the only way to win as 100% Territory, the Kiadians will certainly declare war on you if you are at a disadvantage. However, if you make the race victory conditions the most important aspect, they will strive to meet those goals. Kiadians will try and ally with you, and will defend that alliance to the death. Boskarans, on the other hand, will attack the crap out of you in order to reach those goals.


I usually play with "no victory condition" as i love to roleplay my empire and try to behave like a real space civilization. If you are true, the fact that victory condition impact AI behaviour may be disastrous for my type of play. An AI with no goal ?
It is quite disturbing.




Seraphim_slith -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/25/2011 1:23:49 PM)

@Stelteck: You could try keeping one of the 'original' conditions along with the new race ones but setting it to something ridiculous like your private sector generating 100% of galaxies income to ensure game won't simply end. Should work, in theory...



Gelatinous Cube -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/25/2011 3:39:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube
Well, it depends on the victory conditions. I've tested several games with different conditions, and it seems to definitely affect the way the other empires behave. For example, if you set the only way to win as 100% Territory, the Kiadians will certainly declare war on you if you are at a disadvantage. However, if you make the race victory conditions the most important aspect, they will strive to meet those goals. Kiadians will try and ally with you, and will defend that alliance to the death. Boskarans, on the other hand, will attack the crap out of you in order to reach those goals.


I usually play with "no victory condition" as i love to roleplay my empire and try to behave like a real space civilization. If you are true, the fact that victory condition impact AI behaviour may be disastrous for my type of play. An AI with no goal ?
It is quite disturbing.




Well, if you want a Sandbox you'll get a Sandbox, I guess. If you really just want to play a game that never ends, and yet the enemy is still competitive, you can fine-tune that in the victory conditions. It's not worded very well, but the victory conditions can be almost anything you can dream up. Setting Economy/Territory/Pop to very low values (but probably still something) and then checking "Race Specific Victories." Make the Victory Threshold 100%. It is very hard, if not impossible, to achieve 100% victory solely on Race conditions. Some of those conditions are brutal. But it will give the AI very roleplayable and worthy objectives.

This is all, of course, my speculation. I am hoping for an official in-depth explanation of this.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/25/2011 3:45:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck
I usually play with "no victory condition" as i love to roleplay my empire and try to behave like a real space civilization. If you are true, the fact that victory condition impact AI behaviour may be disastrous for my type of play. An AI with no goal ?
It is quite disturbing.


Sandbox mode still works fine, at least it did for me in testing. Diplomacy, wars, trade, the whole lot. [8D]

Regards,

- Erik



Mysterius -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/25/2011 6:14:19 PM)

Is there a way to manually set a planet as a penal colony or is it automatic only?



Erik Rutins -> RE: Legends: leave your impressions here, pls! (11/25/2011 6:19:45 PM)

This happens automatically in my experience as long as you have the immigration policy and automation settings on. Being able to designate one manually is a good suggestion though.

Regards,

- Erik



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