quote:

ORIGINAL: David The Great

What about defensive actions to prevent a PH strike ? As much TF's as possible ? , a big sc tf with reaction 6 to intercept his KB ?, spread air assets or not ?
The dec 7th surprize is for the am turn only or am i wrong on that one ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

In my experience taking the 6 minesweepers at Manila and making 2 x mine sweeper TFs of 3 ships each will clear the mines in one turn.

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ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: David The Great

And what about the allies ? Any thoughts on what they can do to prevent a Japanese victory ?

This won't do that, but put all of your fleeing ships, in their scores and hundreds, into single-ship TFs, and use waypoints to route them in odd ways. The air targeting routines can't make air attacks hit more than one TF per phase. You'll have 30 Betties hitting one xAKL, and it'll sink real good, but those planes will be "consumed" for that phase. You buy time.

I believe CR, in his current game, even routed some escaping PI merchants almost into HI waters and had them exit through the Aleutians. Be creative.

Oh, those RN DDs in Hong Kong will be worth a lot to you in a month or two wherever you send them. Get them moving. They're gold.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David The Great

What about defensive actions to prevent a PH strike ? As much TF's as possible ? ,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Against the AI I manage to pull cadres of the two Canadian battalions that start in Hong Kong - Rifles of Canada and Winnipeg Grenadiers. I use one wing (7 planes) from the DC-7 unit at Kunming which moves to Hong Kong to pick up the units and fly them to Nanning. Put the second wing at Nanning, and the third one in Kunming. From Kunming you can air transport them to Ledo. It takes two turns to fly the cadres of both battalions in Hong Kong using this setup.You could also put two wings at Hong Kong and fly away cadres of both units in one turn. I don't know if it's doable against a human though.

I also try to bombard Canton with the three DDs from Hong Kong. Sometimes they hit the Japanese planes located there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

I also try to bombard Canton with the three DDs from Hong Kong. Sometimes they hit the Japanese planes located there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Against the AI I manage to pull cadres of the two Canadian battalions that start in Hong Kong - Rifles of Canada and Winnipeg Grenadiers. I use one wing (7 planes) from the DC-7 unit at Kunming which moves to Hong Kong to pick up the units and fly them to Nanning. Put the second wing at Nanning, and the third one in Kunming. From Kunming you can air transport them to Ledo. It takes two turns to fly the cadres of both battalions in Hong Kong using this setup.You could also put two wings at Hong Kong and fly away cadres of both units in one turn. I don't know if it's doable against a human though.

I also try to bombard Canton with the three DDs from Hong Kong. Sometimes they hit the Japanese planes located there.

No longer a priority as you can purchase any lost unit back save for Dutch and PI units at very little cost.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Against the AI I manage to pull cadres of the two Canadian battalions that start in Hong Kong - Rifles of Canada and Winnipeg Grenadiers. I use one wing (7 planes) from the DC-7 unit at Kunming which moves to Hong Kong to pick up the units and fly them to Nanning. Put the second wing at Nanning, and the third one in Kunming. From Kunming you can air transport them to Ledo. It takes two turns to fly the cadres of both battalions in Hong Kong using this setup.You could also put two wings at Hong Kong and fly away cadres of both units in one turn. I don't know if it's doable against a human though.

I also try to bombard Canton with the three DDs from Hong Kong. Sometimes they hit the Japanese planes located there.

No longer a priority as you can purchase any lost unit back save for Dutch and PI units at very little cost.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Against the AI I manage to pull cadres of the two Canadian battalions that start in Hong Kong - Rifles of Canada and Winnipeg Grenadiers. I use one wing (7 planes) from the DC-7 unit at Kunming which moves to Hong Kong to pick up the units and fly them to Nanning. Put the second wing at Nanning, and the third one in Kunming. From Kunming you can air transport them to Ledo. It takes two turns to fly the cadres of both battalions in Hong Kong using this setup.You could also put two wings at Hong Kong and fly away cadres of both units in one turn. I don't know if it's doable against a human though.

I also try to bombard Canton with the three DDs from Hong Kong. Sometimes they hit the Japanese planes located there.

No longer a priority as you can purchase any lost unit back save for Dutch and PI units at very little cost.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Against the AI I manage to pull cadres of the two Canadian battalions that start in Hong Kong - Rifles of Canada and Winnipeg Grenadiers. I use one wing (7 planes) from the DC-7 unit at Kunming which moves to Hong Kong to pick up the units and fly them to Nanning. Put the second wing at Nanning, and the third one in Kunming. From Kunming you can air transport them to Ledo. It takes two turns to fly the cadres of both battalions in Hong Kong using this setup.You could also put two wings at Hong Kong and fly away cadres of both units in one turn. I don't know if it's doable against a human though.

I also try to bombard Canton with the three DDs from Hong Kong. Sometimes they hit the Japanese planes located there.

No longer a priority as you can purchase any lost unit back save for Dutch and PI units at very little cost.

Everyone keeps stating that it is cheap to rebuild units so we shouldn't worry about saving them from thier fate.

While the PP cost isn't high, do the device pools really have sufficient depth to simply disregard that aspect of the cost of rebuilding?

Are the device pools so deep that a player can flesh out understrength onboard units and afford to rebuild and refill dead units to a degree that losing them doesn't matter anymore?

I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here by shooting down anyone's recommendations, but rather trying to get a grasp on it myself from others who have more knowledge of the depths of device pools.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


I think costs in terms of PP's but for example in Jun '42 I am producing 10 squads per day so in one month I can rebuild 1 division if that is the sole purpose of my TO&E factories .. but it is not .. so teh costs are in time and reducing overall capacity to replenish the units in the field. Now I bought out units because 1943 is going to be pure (&(*(* for the IJ .. but I am not engaged right now in a war of attirtion either ..

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


I think costs in terms of PP's but for example in Jun '42 I am producing 10 squads per day so in one month I can rebuild 1 division if that is the sole purpose of my TO&E factories .. but it is not .. so teh costs are in time and reducing overall capacity to replenish the units in the field. Now I bought out units because 1943 is going to be pure (&(*(* for the IJ .. but I am not engaged right now in a war of attirtion either ..

To be honest with the logic you must balance the alternate uses for the evacuating vehicles, the risk of them being lost, fuel in some cases, repair time in other cases, and time needed to transport the evacuees to someplace they can rebuild. Getting PI units to the middle of China or even Rangoon might not be a bonus situation. If you let them be captured or killed you can start rebuilding them quickly, or not, but you aren't risking valuable planes and ships to save them either.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

In the logical calculus of whether or not to extricate troops, one must also consider the VPs [a chorus of BOO is heard] that you are giving to your opponent by allowing these units to be destroyed in situ too. 1 VP per 3 Allied (non-Chinese, non-Filipino) units destroyed can add up to a sizeable VP gift if you don't get 'em out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Against the AI I manage to pull cadres of the two Canadian battalions that start in Hong Kong - Rifles of Canada and Winnipeg Grenadiers. I use one wing (7 planes) from the DC-7 unit at Kunming which moves to Hong Kong to pick up the units and fly them to Nanning. Put the second wing at Nanning, and the third one in Kunming. From Kunming you can air transport them to Ledo. It takes two turns to fly the cadres of both battalions in Hong Kong using this setup.You could also put two wings at Hong Kong and fly away cadres of both units in one turn. I don't know if it's doable against a human though.

I also try to bombard Canton with the three DDs from Hong Kong. Sometimes they hit the Japanese planes located there.

No longer a priority as you can purchase any lost unit back save for Dutch and PI units at very little cost.

Everyone keeps stating that it is cheap to rebuild units so we shouldn't worry about saving them from thier fate.

While the PP cost isn't high, do the device pools really have sufficient depth to simply disregard that aspect of the cost of rebuilding?

Are the device pools so deep that a player can flesh out understrength onboard units and afford to rebuild and refill dead units to a degree that losing them doesn't matter anymore?

I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here by shooting down anyone's recommendations, but rather trying to get a grasp on it myself from others who have more knowledge of the depths of device pools.

Yes, but the old way of saving a remnant, you still have to rebuild. My point is, the PP cost is low enough that it isn't worth the cost of the hassle to arrange to keep a remnant hiding somewhere to replace a garrison.

The cost of rebuilding a division hasn't changed at all. For the allies, it is just time. For the IJ, it is a considerable cost that has to be evaluated. Usually I would rebuild one, but it may end up costing me a depot division later on that I can't build. Neither manpower, arm, veh, or HI are bottomless wells. They get consumed at a frightening rate in the end game. You really have to watch those Tracker plots carefully.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

In the logical calculus of whether or not to extricate troops, one must also consider the VPs [a chorus of BOO is heard] that you are giving to your opponent by allowing these units to be destroyed in situ too. 1 VP per 3 Allied (non-Chinese, non-Filipino) units destroyed can add up to a sizeable VP gift if you don't get 'em out.

???
Now I'm confused. Are we still talking about remnants vs paying PP?

Most people when they extract a remnant, it's 1 - 2 squads ... as little as possible so as to not diminish the unit. 3 - 6 VP is of consequence? Maybe for auto-victory (which I do not play). Not sure ... and you jeopardize air units at 2VP / ac and/or ships with even more. No, I pay the PP now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Is garrisoning Salt lake City and the coastal bases that an airdrop on SLC could be made from neccessary?
Or is that threat just something that was posited in a thread?

It's not something one has to worry about against the AI.

Is it a real dirty trick threat to be aware of in a PBEM?

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Is garrisoning Salt lake City and the coastal bases that an airdrop on SLC could be made from neccessary?
Or is that threat just something that was posited in a thread?

It's not something one has to worry about against the AI.

Is it a real dirty trick threat to be aware of in a PBEM?

I think of it as simply playing with a realistic flavor. For example, at the outset, with an attack on Pearl Harbor it became uncertain what was the extent of Japan's capabilities and intentions and west coast bases were fortified. I immediately build forts to thwart any quick adventure before I start on the bases.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Yes. Sorry for being confusing. I'm outlining the rationale for why evacuating squads (or guns, or engineers, etc.) no matter what number is beneficial. Allowing them to be destroyed (and ultimately repurchased for PP) yields a substantial VP harvest to the opponent. This is less revealing for small fragments than it would be for shipborne evacuation of larger cadres.