RE: Capital Ships (Full Version)

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zuluhour -> RE: Capital Ships (9/6/2012 8:33:10 PM)

I would bet the last actions off Sumatra were a fanatical attempt to stave off AV.



John 3rd -> Battle off Enggano: Day EIGHT (9/7/2012 7:08:15 AM)

June 3, 1942

More of the same this day. Over 30 enemy ships slip beneath the waves and more then a hundred still remain to be shot at, dropped on, and blasted. The sheer numbers of ships is staggering. I saw the QUEEN MARY on one of my screens!

Confirmed SINKING this day:
CLs Ceres and Raleigh
CLAA Van Heemskerck
DD---5 (Hammann, Mustin, Isaac Sweers, Fanning, and Litchfield)
AP--9
AK--12
AMC--1
AM--3

Nearly 30 more are damaged:
CLs Hobart and Emerald
DD--4
AP--9
AK--14

Several Aircraft Squadrons are sunk: 10 Beauforts, 12 C-47, 12 F4F, 12 PBY

Over 4,000 men and numerous Vehicles and Guns slip beneath the waves.

The Battleships opened the fight at Benkoelen getting into 4 separate Invasion TF and shooting the HELL out of them. a small STF of 3 old DDs plowed in and sank Ceres, Mustin, and an AK. Not to outdone BB Fuso and 3 DD bombard Cocos and sink DD Fanning there.

My damaged CVL disbands and hooks up with an AR immediately. No problem there at all.

I-15 is the only Japanese ship hit this turn. After she sank Raleigh with 2 TT she took 15 DC, is crippled, and heading for Oosthaven.

How is that??!!



[image]local://upfiles/18041/E949507CA2C742B0BF73832A6A7DF42A.jpg[/image]



John 3rd -> Battle off Enggano: Day EIGHT (9/7/2012 7:10:12 AM)

The KB is augmented with the arrival of CV Soryu. This powerful TF now numbers 4 Fleet Carriers and Ryuho. Over 300 planes are embarked and they have their sights set on a target 17 hexes away. The screenshot shows it well:



[image]local://upfiles/18041/DE961D65D447400595818E9FA40EAFA4.jpg[/image]



Squamry -> RE: Battle off Enggano: Day SEVEN (9/7/2012 8:14:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: janh

One thing I wondered about Ceylon, maybe some experience Allied players can answer: if you'd lost Ceylon, but the air battle there was finally turned in your favor and you could retake it with an invasion, would you do so at the expense of forces feeding the Burma offensive? Or would you invest Ceylon and use it as a bombing practice, rack up VPs and experience, and take it later? It would sound like taking it must delay the progress into Rangoon, but is that truly so?

I'd take it back. It's too useful a base to leave in Jap hands.



MrBlizzard -> RE: Battle off Enggano: Day SEVEN (9/7/2012 11:49:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

If you guys want to ask him you should do so. His Forum name is Adm. Nelson and there was a companion AAR to this one. You'd probably find it about page 3 or so.


Thank you John for the link. I read it, it's less than two pages, only few posts that describe the beginning of the war Allied side but IT'S EXTREMELY INTERESTING!

I'm a little shaken about this slaughter, and it hasn't finished yet



John 3rd -> Day NINE! (9/10/2012 8:30:34 AM)

June 4, 1942

A minimum of FORTY-SIX ships sink this day as two separate STF finally get into the Allied Invasion Forces and CRUSH them. Losses include CL Hobart, 4 DD, an AM, 4 PG, 24 AP, and 12 AK. At least 40 more ships are hit and some sink.

He is finally pulling away from Benkoelen with his shipping. There are still at least 100 ships out there for the sinking and I will continue to attack until I am throwing stones!

Bed Time. Larger report in the morning.

No Japanese ships are lost this day.

[image]local://upfiles/18041/41D8A59CE3B74B97AA5C1E94574D3F2F.jpg[/image]



MAurelius -> RE: Day NINE! (9/10/2012 9:33:42 AM)

he'll have to organize the next invasion with xAKLs and LCIs....



koniu -> RE: Day NINE! (9/10/2012 11:00:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MAurelius

he'll have to organize the next invasion with xAKLs and LCIs....


I do not think we will see another invasion in next 18 months




janh -> RE: Day NINE! (9/10/2012 11:17:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MAurelius
he'll have to organize the next invasion with xAKLs and LCIs....


If this continues, John will be rendering KB "obsolete" since there won't be any amphibious operations to oppose before mid 1944. With all these losses, I think he can try some very bold things now, like going after Ceylon and NZ simultaneously, or hitting Mumbai and Calcutta after Ceylon with a amphib raid. Even failure would hurt much.



PaxMondo -> RE: Day NINE! (9/11/2012 3:25:47 AM)

your pilots are accumulating incredible exp #'s



obvert -> RE: Day NINE! (9/11/2012 8:57:27 AM)

10 divisions in LA in September. Take out the US aircraft industry. What does it matter if he gets reinforcements now? [:D]



Cribtop -> RE: Day NINE! (9/11/2012 8:16:05 PM)

[&o][X(][&o][X(]



John 3rd -> RE: Day NINE! (9/12/2012 8:28:10 PM)

My pilots have gained XP. It isn't as great as I had hoped but they are (about 1000 plane's worth) really getting in the everyday strikes, sweeps, and bombing. I think this whole battle has cost me about 100 aircraft.

OBVERT is a NUT!

Time for e serious update...



John 3rd -> Battle off Enggano: June 4-6, 1942--Days 8-10 (9/12/2012 8:53:39 PM)

Combat Report
Battle off Enggano
June 4-6, 1942
Days 8-10 of the Battle

Man ohhhh man.

Time for some overview and details as to movements/plans:

June 4th is a horrific day for the Allied Fleet! As stated above three separate STF get into the Allied Invasion Force TF's at Benkoelen. The first TF is BC's Hiei--Kirishima, a CA, and 4 DDs. The second is 4 DD coming up from Batavia. Lastly BC's Kongo--Haruna and CL Agano pay a visit. These TF brush aside the 6 DD trying to protect the transports and LAY WASTE. My ships fire off---literally---ALL their torps, large ammo, secondary ammo, and 25MM ammo. CRAZY. Another 2,000 solders drown as well as lots of vehicles and guns. By the end of it the Allied Fleet loses 24 AP, 10 AK, CL Hobart, and 4 DDs. Air power adds to this by plastering an AM, 4 AK, and 4 PG plus damaging at least 30-40 more vessels. Run out of TTs and have to order some more...

Lew begins to pull back--apparently--and try to salvage things by sending some TF up the coast of Sumatra while pulling more out and sending them to sea.

June 5th sees an attempt to either A. Widen the Beachhead or B. Save a few troops from drowning as a TF begins unloading the remains of some units at Padang. Padang is held to two full-strength Naval Guard units behind Sz-3 Forts but it is very worrisome since CVL Shoho is disbanded their doing some repairs with an AR. NOT GOOD.

Weather closes a number of AF but strike still get through and add to the carnage. Minimum losses include: DD Norman, 5 large APs, and an AK. Damage is done to about the same number of other ships.

I bring my two damaged CVs (Hiryu and Zuiho) out of protection and send them to intercept the TF's moving away from Sumatra. Each has about 25 SYS damage so this is a risk but I want to get a few more ships before they are out of range. The KB sweeps towards Ceylon hoping to cutoff the retreat of the Allied CVs and anything else substantial.

June 6th brings in better weather and the strikes range out quickly. Only 3 AP are confirmed sunk but 12 more AP, a few AK, and a DD are hit repeatedly. Soryu and her damaged companion contribute. In something that I CANNOT imagine he brings the QUEEN MARY back into range by trying to land more at Padang. This day sees Vals plant 5 bombs on her and I expect to see her sunk tomorrow. Am more excited over a chance to sink this iconic vessel then an American CV! OK. Maybe not...

My Naval Guard attack and force two unit fragments to surrender at Padang. The Brit 44th ID is spotted here. Haven't ever even heard of this ID!

Situation
1. Finally drop off an Air Flotilla at Palembang so I shall have many more TTs tomorrow.
2. Sabang just conveniently went to a Sz-2 AF. Will move Vals and Kates there after tomorrow.
3. KB spotted shipping at a range of 10 during the afternoon. Order the CVs further into the IO to GET THEM!
4. He has 6 units moved out from Benkoelen apparently heading for Palembang. I have an Inf Reg, Air Flotilla, and large BF holding the base presently. Imperial Guards-C is being airlifted into the base between Palembang and Benkoelen. They shall serve to slow him as my reinforcements approach.
5. The full strength 33rd ID and two remaining Brigades of the Imperial Guards will begin unloading within 2-3 days.
6. Am bringing two more Inf Reg (including 90th) to Oosthaven and they will then drive north to threaten Benkoelen.

That is the state of this Allied Disaster. Am going to try to total the MINIMUM Allied losses for the fight with my next entry.



[image]local://upfiles/18041/52F9500DBE5A40FB87B54A38644BCC70.jpg[/image]



John 3rd -> Naval Losses (9/12/2012 9:30:03 PM)

Total Naval Losses
June 6, 1942

Totaled EVERYTHING and the results from the battle as well as the Grand Total for the War is nothing short of staggering. For the Battle off Enggano (to Date) from May 27-June 6th the Allied losses are:

CV Hornet
BB/BC Repulse, Royal Sovereign, Resolution, Revenge, Ramilles, Mississippi, New Mexico, and Idaho---Can probably add Prince of Wales to this list.
CA Devonshire and Salt Lake City
CL Danae, Dauntless, Raleigh, Van Heemskerck, Ceres, and Hobart
DD 20
AP 63---HOLY CRAP!
AK 45
AKV 2
AMC 5
AVP 1
AM 4
PC 4

Can you BELIEVE THESE LOSSES??!! [sm=00000436.gif]



War-to-Date Fleet Losses:
Allies
CV Lexington, Hornet, Enterprise, and Indomitable
CVL Hermes
BB The above listed PLUS Warspite, Colorado, and Nevada----TOTAL 10 BB and 1 BC
CA 17 (11 US and 6 Allied)
CL 25 (5 US and 20 Allied)
DD 72
SS 18

HOLY CATS BATMAN! [sm=fighting0043.gif]

Japan
CVE Hosho and Taiyo
BB Mutsu and Yamashiro
CA 3
CL 5
DD 25 (only 10 are Modern DDs)
SS 2

How is that for a BALANCE SHEET BABY??!!

BANZAI! BANZAI!! BANZAI!!!


[image]local://upfiles/18041/6821C0FFA3E54D96B2BD0537C2C46453.jpg[/image]



John 3rd -> RE: Battle off Enggano: June 4-6, 1942--Days 8-10 (9/12/2012 9:32:02 PM)


Double Post--Deleted.



FatR -> RE: Battle off Enggano: June 4-6, 1942--Days 8-10 (9/12/2012 10:12:01 PM)

This hull count is pretty great, but Allies still can recover for this if your opponent rethinks his approach and can avoid the point loss. In my Ocean of Blood game, which featured even greater slaughter in 1942, I now deeply regret relaxing and not hitting the Allies harder in early-to-mid-1943, because I'm now besieged on all fronts. His big mistake was (a)launching a decisive attack in a direction to which Japanese attention was already drawn, while Allied deep penetration attack against a non-crippled Japanese Empire only succeed in 1942, 1943, and even 1944, when surprise is achieved; (b)embarking on a high-risk adventure that requires tactical skill superiority over the opponent, without possessing such.


Also, John, check your email please.



John 3rd -> RE: Battle off Enggano: June 4-6, 1942--Days 8-10 (9/12/2012 10:24:46 PM)

I'll try to get a look at total AP---AK losses later on tonight...

Thanks FatR. Concur with your thinking, however, I SHALL NOT relax the pressure! New Zealand, Cocos, and Ceylong are all on the radar for future operations...



John 3rd -> RE: Battle off Enggano: June 4-6, 1942--Days 8-10 (9/13/2012 12:55:31 AM)

Just did some fast math:

106 AP Sunk
225 AK/AKL Sunk



zuluhour -> RE: Battle off Enggano: June 4-6, 1942--Days 8-10 (9/13/2012 2:24:59 AM)

John, my total of all ships sunk (as allies) is 226. It's 1944!!! The IJ total around 550. Congrats!



obvert -> RE: Day NINE! (9/13/2012 1:23:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

My pilots have gained XP. It isn't as great as I had hoped but they are (about 1000 plane's worth) really getting in the everyday strikes, sweeps, and bombing. I think this whole battle has cost me about 100 aircraft.

OBVERT is a NUT!

Time for e serious update...



Yes! In this case I am. But this mod is a bit nutty already, and THIS game is truly a 56oz Planters Mixed you can only get at Costco.

So...

What is the challenge of playing a nice quiet game after you completely rock OZ and wipe a full half of the Allied fleet off the map in the first 7 months of game time? My thought would be, go for the jugular now and put an end to it. There could be several ways to do this.

1. Hold OZ with dominant (mostly surface) power on the oceans plus Netties while leaving few infantry units there. Send all available IJA units to Karachi, Surat and Bombay and take India from the West to the East toward Burma. End of game.

2. Hold OZ with dominant power on the oceans plus Netties while leaving few infantry units there. Send all available IJA units to Russia and take the rail junction at Chita first before driving the Soviets to the map edge. Head back to mop up the rest of Russia. Not end of game, but pretty close, and most likely an Auot-vitory on VPs.

3. Hold OZ with dominant (mostly surface) power on the oceans plus Netties while leaving few infantry units there. Take Christmas Island Pacific or another good staging base you can use to store fuel, supplies and send all available IJA units to the South Central Pacific. Send a massive invasion fleet to the West Coast. Land at a base within two hexes of LA. Take the base and hold it as long as possible to keep the Allies from being able to produce planes. If you have 10-12 divisions there (4.5k-5.5k AV) and build level 6-9 forts, you might hold the base for a good while. If not you still cripple his aircraft industry and can easily rebuild those divisions before he will be able to attack amphibiously even if you lose the lot. Not necessarily end of game, but surely an auto-VP victory and a LOT of fun. (If you can pull it off).




John 3rd -> RE: Day NINE! (9/13/2012 2:43:56 PM)

The above man is sipping the President's Coolaid! [:'(]



obvert -> RE: Day NINE! (9/13/2012 2:58:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

The above man is sipping the President's Coolaid! [:'(]


Which president?

You were contemplating several very prudent options before your opponent decided to basically throw the game by sending his entire fleet and most of his available army at Sumatra into the teeth of your defense. In order to restart that discussion I've proposed what seem to now be realistic options.

You've wiped out the Australian Army and the entire continent. You're cleared most of the US fleet CVs and a huge number of BBs, not to mention made your opponent completely incapable of an amphibious operation for the next year or more. All of the Armies that should be in India are either in the ocean or about to be chased into the jungles of Sumatra.

[:)]



pws1225 -> RE: Day NINE! (9/13/2012 3:09:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

The above man is sipping the President's Coolaid! [:'(]


Yea maybe, but you have to admit that taking L.A. would be classic!



ny59giants -> RE: Day NINE! (9/13/2012 3:14:34 PM)

Christmas Island (Line Islands) then off to LA.....

Holding southern Kalifornia would be great. All his ships coming out of Panama would have to try to get to San Fran or Pearl. More sunk ships!! [:D]



pws1225 -> RE: Day NINE! (9/13/2012 3:51:34 PM)

... and think of all the oil waiting to be harvested there. Hmmm,Hollywood here we come (please).



John 3rd -> RE: Day NINE! (9/13/2012 3:55:42 PM)

...cannot really see the screen through the tears of my laughter with you guys...

Clearing out Hollywood DOES have great potential though.
[sm=00000030.gif]



janh -> RE: Day NINE! (9/13/2012 5:02:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
...cannot really see the screen through the tears of my laughter with you guys...

Clearing out Hollywood DOES have great potential though.
[sm=00000030.gif]


+1 That would be a hilarious end to this game...


But with one thing obvert is right: What British, Indian and other commonwealth divisions are left unaccounted for, or at least combat worthy on the Indian subcontinent? It might be worth to dig thru the allied OOB and check what forces would be left? With those breathtaking AP and AK losses there is essentially no chance that any US LCU would get there as reinforcements, and for at least 12-18 months even all the holdings in Nor, Cent and SoPac would seem more than safe. You almost don't need KB anymore. It certainly is way more risky to take Ceylon and "mob up" NZ, but maybe there is a real chance to hit India here?



John 3rd -> RE: Day NINE! (9/13/2012 5:41:18 PM)

I concur with that thinking.

How about looking to 'deal with' NZ, take Cocos, crush the troops in Sumatra, move on to Ceylon, check the OOB, and then attack India? This could be the detailed operations carrying Japan into mid-1943.




janh -> RE: Day NINE! (9/13/2012 6:29:36 PM)

Damn it, I just screwed up my AE install.

Mid 43 sounds very reasonable. It would also be a plan that would leave room for other contingencies, or opportunities along the way. When thinking of an extended India campaign, I recall that there was a discussion of the importance of taking Socotra after Ceylon to help isolate Karachi. If you plan to make India more than a raid, going for Karachi and Socorta rather soon and in force might be very helpful?

On the other hand, from what I can gather from your reports, about half of the available British and Indian divisions and brigade units are either along the Burmese border, or just got thrashed between Benkoelen and Cocos. The western backwaters might be lacking LCUs at this point? Sounds a bit like the situation that enabled your OZ campaign over again. So maybe it would be wisest to stay away from the India trigger line, but try to seize some or as much as possible of the remainder? Without emergency reinforcements, Lew might face a real challenge to throw the IJA out of the continent fast enough to make a difference.



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