RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (Full Version)

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Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (5/12/2012 6:20:54 PM)

1/6/42
 
NoPac:  Lots of signs indicate Steve is "all in" for NoPac, including 5th Fleet landing at Juneau.  Also, SigInt for support troops moving to places like Dutch Harbor and Adak.  He doesn't want me coming back, but far NoPac is really irrelevant in the game unless the Allies want to make it relevant, and I don't.  He can have it as long as it sucks up too much of his time, attention, and assets.  I also get the feeling that he's fallen behind schedule.  Every indication is that he's coming, but if he were to call it off for any reason, his next best shot would be Oz (or Hawaii, though I personally don't think the latter is worth the effort; Hawaii doesn't worry me; Oz would).

CenPac:  Two USN cruiser/destroyer TFs have penetrated very far, apparently without detection, though it's certainly possible they'll bump into an aroused Mini KB or island airforce.  One of the TFs is about two days from Babeldaob.  The other is NW of Kaeving and could hit ships there from the rear, but I want a deeper penetration that might strike the jackpot (or might fail spectacularly if said Mini KB pops up).

Eastern DEI:  Steve seems intent on landing in NW Oz, but he just landed engineers and base force at Bathhurst Island.  It will take him awhile to build up that airfield.  He could probably just waltz into Darwin or Broome without all that trouble.

Malaya:  It will be a few days - maybe as much as nearly a week - before Steve is in position to cross the causeway to lay siege to Singapore.  The longer the better.



Blackhorse -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (5/12/2012 6:21:12 PM)

I agree that, ideally, there ought to be more bases on the West Coast. Even without them, the Allied player has enough in the tool box to make the Japanese regret landing.

For starters, there are the 4-6 divisions 'training up' on the West Coast (Corvallis, San Luis Obispo) that were eventually sent to ETO, plus the 7th Motorized Infantry and 2-3 division equivalents of infantry and cavalry regiments. All of that is available -- in addition to the forces on the West Coast that eventually were sent to the Pacific -- even if the Japanese never cross the "Line of Death".

And yes, the reinforcements that arrive if the LOD is triggered include the II Corps and other forces diverted from "Torch". In total, that's about a dozen extra full-strength, semi-trained divisions diverted away from the ETO to fend off the Japanese. In 1942, the US would be cannabalising a lot of other new units to bring a dozen divisions up to full combat strength, so that is not far off the mark of what the US could realistically deploy. The total force includes 3+ Armored Divisions, for which the the Japanese really have no counter, if the US can muster any type of air cover.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

If the Empire of Japan had been marching down the Pacific coast of Canada toward the US there would have been no "Europe First" strategy.

There would be no Torch landings. Most of the Atlantic Fleet would now be queued up to pass throught Panama Canal and by mid '42 Bozeman, Montana would be HQ of the 8th Air Force.[:)]

There also aren't enough bases and dot hexes. The absence of dot hexes in BC makes it easier to defend...especially the IJA.


Can someone explain to me if strat bombing alone triggers the LOD reinforcements?




BBfanboy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (5/12/2012 8:32:01 PM)

Which raises the question - do you have a HR that would require you to use PP to move US units into Canada?



Crackaces -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (5/12/2012 11:45:02 PM)

quote:

The total force includes 3+ Armored Divisions, for which the the Japanese really have no counter,


Terrain and weather favor the defender .. try marching forces from the United States at 2mi per turn through all that rough terrain .. once the IJ get established it will take some doing to get them uprooted .. amphib landings .. amphib forces will not load restrcited forces ...how to supply overland up there?

I am not of the ilk that PjH is up to a major strategic attack of the US .. as I have said before Whitehorse X10, Skagway X25; Juneau X100; Sitka X5; Yakulatat X5; annette Island X5; Cordova X5; Anchorage X25; Witter X10;Seward X10; Kodak X5; Valdez X10 ...Fairbanks X10 ..

Now start looking at the multipliers like anchorage .. 9*3*25 .. 675 points ..Juneau 6 * 3 * 1000 1800 points ...

No where in the game are such dense points easily grabed and held until 43 ...

I contend that PjH has his eyes on a sudden victory ... and has thought about this little jewel for a long time ..

So the US can have six million AV ready to go and all the home rules in the world to let them march through Canada .. but nothing connects up there north of Prince Rupurt and keeping them supplied will be impossible ..it looks like to me Mid 43 and landing craft will have to free Alaska ..

If the IJ sonder South of Fort St John / Prince Rupert woe unto them .. but I doubt it .. there is gold in them hills [ports and airfield multipliers too ..]






Grfin Zeppelin -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (5/13/2012 2:13:19 AM)

Ah finaly we are done with this camping stuff it seems :)



Crackaces -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (5/13/2012 2:17:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

Ah finaly we are done with this camping stuff it seems :)


men like to bond talking about camping ...some of us did it for a living in our youth ... [8D]



Dan Nichols -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (5/13/2012 2:49:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

Ah finaly we are done with this camping stuff it seems :)


I don't think he has even left yet. [>:]



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (5/13/2012 4:03:23 AM)

Indeed, we leave tomorrow. :)

If Steve came for West Coast. it would not be to conquer vast stretches of territory. Not only does the USA have alot of troops, he's short. He has four divisions on Luzon and another in Malaya.

So if he came (which I consider unlikely), I think he'd go for San Diego and LA and also engage in a vigorous strat bombing campaign.

But I think it much more likely his intent is/was to engage in a strat bombing campaign from Coal Harbor and Alliford Bay.

I do think he's having some misgivings. He's mentioned things in his emails, which could be maskirvoka, but this is made more likely by his sudden delays in returning turns. He went from being "all heated up' about doing turns as fast as possible to promising turns and then not sending them at all or a day late.

No more turns for awhile (I hope). See you guys later.



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (5/26/2012 3:53:49 PM)

Greetings!

We have temporarily emerged from the wilderness to shower, wash, sleep in beds, and visit the only metropolitan destination (San Francisco) of our trip. Today's itinerary includes driving over the Golden Gate Bridge and doing some things in downtown San Franciscso.

This is the first time in California for me, my wife, and our children. Oour first four nights have been in Death Valley (ouch!), Sequoia National Park (rattlesnake at one of our two campsites!), and Yosemite National Park (snow and rain!). Thus far we've spent eight nights in the tents and five in a hotel room.

It's Memorial Day Weekend, so we don't know what to expect tonight. We may look for a campsite near Muir Woods or Point Reyes National Seashore. From here we move on to a campsite near Lake Tahoe, then at Great Basin National Park, then Arches N.P., then Rocky Mountain National Park, and then we make the long haul home. ETA next weekend.

My opponent (PH) will see that I've logged in and may hope I'm back to resume the war. :)

By the way, since most American schools are just letting out for the summer, most of the tourists we've seen at our national parks have been from Germany, France, China and Japan.

Blessings to all the Forumites. See you guys and gal soon.

Canoe "The Rattlesnake didn't bother me" Rebel



obvert -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (5/26/2012 6:46:59 PM)

Roadtrips and camping in the west are things I sorely miss in the UK. Nothing like it. Always amazing sites, some deprivation, and a few surprises. I'd still rather meet a rattler than a cottonmouth any day though.

Definitely don't miss getting into a redwoods forest. The most amazing woods you'll ever be in. The scale and majesty is unbelievable.








BBfanboy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (5/26/2012 6:55:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Roadtrips and camping in the west are things I sorely miss in the UK. Nothing like it. Always amazing sites, some deprivation, and a few surprises. I'd still rattler meet a rattler than a cottonmouth any day though.

Definitely don't miss getting into a redwoods forest. The most amazing woods you'll ever be in. The scale and majesty is unbelievable.

After an evening relaxing by the fire, swapping lies with friends over a glass of wine or six, I always seem to be the cottonmouth one in the morning ...[8|]



Grfin Zeppelin -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (5/26/2012 7:38:56 PM)

Welcome back [:)]



Dan Nichols -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (5/26/2012 8:27:29 PM)

make sure you don't share your camp spot with one of these.



[image]local://upfiles/39515/50D7FD98C0EC481D86B20884664054D8.jpg[/image]



desicat -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/1/2012 3:44:42 AM)

CR, Since this has turned into a bit of a travel log have you ever visited Stone Mountain? If so how about a quick briefing?



crsutton -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/1/2012 9:16:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

Ah finaly we are done with this camping stuff it seems :)


men like to bond talking about camping ...some of us did it for a living in our youth ... [8D]



Not me. I was totally into scrapbooking...



BBfanboy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/1/2012 11:58:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: desicat

CR, Since this has turned into a bit of a travel log have you ever visited Stone Mountain? If so how about a quick briefing?

Umm - aren't they all made of stone? What's special about this one?



bradfordkay -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/2/2012 1:37:23 AM)

I am assuming that he is talking about Stone Mountain in Georgia - which is one of the largest monadnocks in the world. It's basically a huge rock (granite) sticking up out of the surrounding landscape - rather like Ayers Rock near Alice Springs, Australia. It lies very close to the city of Atlanta and so was turned into a state park - with a huge relief carving of Jefferson Davis, Robert E Lee and Thomas J "Stonewall" Jackson riding their horses was cut into the side of the mountain.



bradfordkay -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/2/2012 1:38:57 AM)

BTW, Dan... I am glad that you have had a chance to visit the left coast now. I am sure that you can see the attraction it holds for outdoorsy types such as you and me...



vettim89 -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/2/2012 1:58:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

make sure you don't share your camp spot with one of these.



[image]local://upfiles/39515/50D7FD98C0EC481D86B20884664054D8.jpg[/image]


Was talking to my daughter about how North America lacks the biodiversity of other continents, but we do have some nasty top-of-the-foodchain predators. Okay we don't have snakes that can kill you in three minutes or dinner plate sized spiders or three ton herbivores. We do have 1500 pound carnivores. YIKES!!!!! [X(]



desicat -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/2/2012 2:19:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I am assuming that he is talking about Stone Mountain in Georgia - which is one of the largest monadnocks in the world. It's basically a huge rock (granite) sticking up out of the surrounding landscape - rather like Ayers Rock near Alice Springs, Australia. It lies very close to the city of Atlanta and so was turned into a state park - with a huge relief carving of Jefferson Davis, Robert E Lee and Thomas J "Stonewall" Jackson riding their horses was cut into the side of the mountain.


Exactly what I was referring to. If CR has been there I was curious for his take on the experience, him being a Reb and all.



BBfanboy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/2/2012 4:14:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: desicat


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I am assuming that he is talking about Stone Mountain in Georgia - which is one of the largest monadnocks in the world. It's basically a huge rock (granite) sticking up out of the surrounding landscape - rather like Ayers Rock near Alice Springs, Australia. It lies very close to the city of Atlanta and so was turned into a state park - with a huge relief carving of Jefferson Davis, Robert E Lee and Thomas J "Stonewall" Jackson riding their horses was cut into the side of the mountain.


Exactly what I was referring to. If CR has been there I was curious for his take on the experience, him being a Reb and all.

He probably posed for the "Stonewall" Jackson image ...
Thanks for filling me in on the park site. It's a long way from here but maybe I'll get there now that I know about it.



Cribtop -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/2/2012 4:47:04 AM)

In CR's absence I'll try to answer. We had relatives in the SE (South Carolina, North Carolina, Florida and Georgia). While visiting an aunt I went to Stone Mountain with my family. I was in my teens. The carving is pretty darn impressive. Visible from the tourist shops way at the bottom of the mountain. Up top, however, was my favorite part. It has a room with a huge 3D relief map of Georgia. The map lights up various battle sites and describes Sherman's campaign in northern Georgia, outflanking the CSA forces again and again until Atlanta is besieged and taken. Followed by the March to the Sea.

Cool description, but my ancestors basically get their butts whipped, which was sort of depressing.

I would rate Stone Mountain as worth the trip if you are in the area, but not cool enough to go there just to see Stone Mountain.



bradfordkay -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/2/2012 7:50:28 AM)

Cribtop's description is pretty much spot on... I lived in Georgia for fifteen years and visited a few times. You can definitely see the carving from a decent distance, but the most impressive part is going up to the top - the views all around from there are pretty spectacular.

My buddies and I did get thrown out of the park for riding our mountain bikes up to the top in 1987, but at least we weren't fined.



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/4/2012 2:43:44 PM)

We are back from out extended camping trip across the good ol' USA.

Cribtop and bradfordkay nicely summed up Stone Mountain.  It's worth seeing, but it combines some of the best of the South (the carvings on the face of the mountain, the hike to the top) with some of the worst (the ugly visitor center at the top and the traffic all around the park).

Stone Mountain used to be owned by a man who was the Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan in Georgia.  Today it is owned by the state and is a state park.  It's worth seeing if convenient, but I definately wouldn't go out of my way to see it.  Going to Kennesaw Mountain National Battlefield Park would be more fruitful, insightful and restful.



crsutton -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/4/2012 4:29:59 PM)

As you know, when I was a kid I spent a lot of my summer time at my family home in Clarkston. Stone Mountain was just a few miles down the highway and way cool back then as it was an partially finished relic that had been abandoned. No park then and you could walk right up to the debris mound under the carving. Hike right up the mountain as well. The finished carving is nice but I miss the old place.


[image]local://upfiles/8095/0F22C21BFC274332A67B6E251FCB9738.jpg[/image]



CaptDave -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/4/2012 8:17:16 PM)

I haven't been to Stone Mountain in 20 years, but all the descriptions here are as I remember it. I'd also say that the laser show at night is (or at least was) tastefully done, not just a spectacular for the sake of having a spectacular (which usually means it's just a spectacle).



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/4/2012 10:19:31 PM)

1/7/42
 
As usual, a prolonged absence induces some "holes in the memory" about some of the tactical and operational things I had under consideration and underway.  I'm hoping I didn't leave a TF without orders steaming into the enemy lair, but it's possible.  The strategic situation, though, I still have a good feel for.

NoPac:  Nothing of note to occur here today, so no further clarifications about PH's longterm plans.

CenPac:  The two USN combat TFs seem to have penetrated the enemy perimeter.  One is scheduled to arrive at Babeldoab in two days and is currently northwest of Truk.  The second is just off the New Guinea coast and is well to the west of Kaeving and probably three days out of Babeldaob.  An oiler and DD escort are trailing the first group and is currently positioned south of Wake Island.

DEI:  Steve's efforts to gobble up Java on the cheap have been stymied, at least temporarily, by small Dutch garrisons holding the high ground or forts.  Nothing major, but enough to force him to bring reinforcements.

Singapore:  The Japanese haven't crossed the causeway yet.

China:  The Japanese tried a costly deliberate attack up near Nanning and it failed miserably.  The Chinese should evict the demoralized enemy tomorrow, mauling one division and a couple of brigades in the process.  Things are still fluid in China, but thus far Japan has stumbled a bit.



Cribtop -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/5/2012 2:43:35 AM)

Welcome back, CR!

In numerous, slow, small ways, you seem to be bleeding PH of momentum. Too early to cheer yet, but it is of such small things that a victory can be constructed.



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/5/2012 6:12:46 PM)

1/8/42
 
In subtle ways a good day for the Allies, based upon my impression that Japan is having some trouble moving forward in meaningful, smooth strides:

NoPac:  New landings at Annette Island.  Steve definately has plans in NoPac, but he should've already taken this base and Coal Bay.  Instead, he seems to be trying to get things back on track.

CenPac:  Japanese patrols sight one of the two USN combat TFs closing on Babeldaob.  A small, ineffective strike flies against the TF.  Okay, so surprise is lost and now my TFs must try to retire unscathed.  All of this should convince Steve he has some holes in his perimeter requiring some attention.

DEI:  The Allies have enough at Koepang to force Steve to come in strength, which is all I could've hoped for at this point.  He's gathering himself for the push.  I'm trying to figure out whether I want to keep carriers in the area.  I'm leaning against it.

Singapore:  The IJ garrison across from Singers just went from 20 units to 31, so Steve should be about ready to start the move to cross the causeway.

Burma: A jumble of troops from both sides in and around Pegu.  I'm playing a hand on a hunch that Steve hasn't brought enough to really bull his way through (yet).

China:  The Chinese attack and maul 116th Div. and two independent brigades, destroying 497 squads with none disrupted. Those units essentially evaporated.  That is very good for Chinese morale (and experience).



obvert -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/5/2012 9:34:32 PM)

quote:

CenPac: Japanese patrols sight one of the two USN combat TFs closing on Babeldaob. A small, ineffective strike flies against the TF. Okay, so surprise is lost and now my TFs must try to retire unscathed. All of this should convince Steve he has some holes in his perimeter requiring some attention.


How far out were you when sighted? Surprised you didn't bump into some transports on the way.



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