RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (Full Version)

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Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/14/2012 5:30:34 PM)

The Allies have slipped a small USN CL/DD combat TF into the northern Philippine Sea, about halfway between Iwo Jima and Osaka.  No detection, as best I can tell.  Where should I send her?  I don't want to suicide against a mine-laden port, and I would rather not send her into a port that was devoid of ships, so I'm seeking some general input from players - especially IJ players - as to where you think a hit-and-run might be effective:  Tokyo? Osaka? Taipai?  Something else?



pws1225 -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/14/2012 6:02:26 PM)

Ominato might be a good candidate. It's not as likely to be mined as the more significant ports, but is very busy handling the flow of resources from Hokkaido and Sakhalin Islands. It's also closer to an escape route to the east after the raid.



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/14/2012 6:05:21 PM)

I've already penetrated inside the Philippine Sea, so I want to hit a target inside that perimeter.  There may be patrols flying out of Luzon and Okinawa and vicinity, so my cover may get busted, but I'll give it a shot.  I might try Taipai unless somebody has a better idea in southern Japan.



Cribtop -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/14/2012 6:28:06 PM)

Pretty sure most of the big ports have pre-war mines. You might try Davao or your old friend Babel. Formosa could be an option if he is shipping the Oil out of the port on the NE tip.



BBfanboy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/14/2012 6:41:56 PM)

There's a chance he may not have mined Hong Kong after he took it. That is only a little further than Takao, the best target on Taipei/Taiwan. Naha on Okinawa is also a fairly well developed port. Most of his Palembang/Brunei/Miri tanker traffic will be coming up the west coast of the Phillipines and turning NE from there - you could try for an intercept at sea anywhere betwen that cape and southwestern Japan.



obvert -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/14/2012 7:00:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The Allies have slipped a small USN CL/DD combat TF into the northern Philippine Sea, about halfway between Iwo Jima and Osaka.  No detection, as best I can tell.  Where should I send her?  I don't want to suicide against a mine-laden port, and I would rather not send her into a port that was devoid of ships, so I'm seeking some general input from players - especially IJ players - as to where you think a hit-and-run might be effective:  Tokyo? Osaka? Taipai?  Something else?


IJ players might not want to reveal that kind of highly sought after information. [;)]

The real answer is that virtually all of the major ports are in fact mined, and some have extensive CD gun emplacements. That wouldn't turn out well. There are only 4 x 28cm guns at Nagasaki. [:D] Fukuoka has no guns but starts out with 450 mines. Ouch.

Resources will be coming from Manchuria somehow though, so if you're not necessarily after troopships, and just want to hit something, any of the major routes form either Port Arthur, Keijo, or Fusan (although that's a tough one to hit as there is an island fortress in-between it and Fukuoka) would be viable. Just looked. Don't hit Tsushima Island. Multiple 40cm and 30cm guns plus 22 x 15cm guns!

Other than that it would be dependent on which ports he's using to send stuff out. I imagine you would want this to be a quick dash, or else it wouldn't have any chance of getting out. But who knows what he has around there. You might face a few TBs and training groups shooting torpedoes for a few days at least.



SqzMyLemon -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/14/2012 11:42:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I don't want to suicide against a mine-laden port, and I would rather not send her into a port that was devoid of ships, so I'm seeking some general input from players - especially IJ players - as to where you think a hit-and-run might be effective:  Tokyo? Osaka? Taipai?  Something else?


[sm=00000506.gif]



Q-Ball -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/15/2012 3:24:06 AM)

Virtually any port worth hitting is mined, if you want to avoid that. Hong Kong wouldn't be, but there isn't likely to be alot of shipping in and out of Hong Kong, at least once the 38th Div is moved.

I would try to interdict convoys between Osaka and Truk. Draw a straight line between those, pick a spot, and wait. Something will come along.



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/15/2012 4:07:20 AM)

1/15/42

NoPac: Warspite takes two TTs in a surface combat clash with a TF flagged by CL Oi at Coal Harbor. The BB only has 30 FLT damage and ordinarly I wouldn't sweat things, but the KB is closing fast from the NW. Warspite is off Vancouver Island and will head south for San Fran. I'm hoping Steve will assume she's going to Seattle, which is close, and thus won't give chase. Allied AV at Coal Harbor is up to 115. It looks like the KB is serious and I think this is the start of a new major undertaking for the Japanese.

CenPac: A transport TF loads five fighter squadrons from Pearl Harbor and will make fo the West Coast. The CL Detroit TF will steam west, probing the area between Japan and Okinawa. The second CL TF (north of New Guinea) will move west again - if she avoid detection, she might take another try at Babeldaob.

Eastern DEI: Steve is moving very slowly to handle the Timor/NW Oz area. He's being careful since he knows I've had carriers in the vicinity, but my defenses are much weaker than he thinks.

Western DEI: Japan still hasn't crossed the causeway at Singers. The Allies have alot of big ships around Cocos Island. I don't have any info that Japan is coming this way, but this is currently my "stasus" position while I look for opportunities.

Burma: Japan is slowly making headway, but keeps bumping into small garrisons that are usually just big enough to fight off the attackers. Neither side has anything major committed here.



Cribtop -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/15/2012 4:20:35 AM)

One last suggestion. Tokyo Bay, baby! Do it for GreyJoy! That's the kind of move he'd love.

Actually, the convoy raiding suggestion is a pretty good plan. Not as fun, though. [;)]



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/16/2012 5:50:51 PM)

1/16/42
 
NoPac:  The KB slides SE as though she might raid down the West Coast.  Damaged Warspite puts in at Astoria.  She right in the path of the eye of the hurricane, but I don't think Steve knows she's there.  Tons of IJ shipping in the Gulf of Alaska.  An S-boat claims another xAK, this one near Kodiak Island.  A transport TF laden with five fighter squadrons departs Pearl Harbor for a SoCal port.

CenPac:  The Detroit TF isn't spotted even though she's one hex from Daita Shota.  She'll steam west (true) tomorrow, passing between Amami Shima and Okinawa.  If not sighted then, she'll raid Keijo, a major port on Korea's western shores.  The other CL TF is steaming slowly west and could be in range to raid Babeldoab day after tomorrow if not sighted.  There's an "easy pickings" Japanese amphibious TF at a north coast New Guinea base, but it's too small to make the intercept worthwile.

SoPac:  One combat TF is retiring to Brisbane to resupply.  Another is steaming north past Tulagi to be in a position to raid should further opportunities arise.

DEI:  Lots of IJ shipping in the area between Darwin, Lautem and Ceram.  An Indian CD unit is perhaps five days away from Cocos.  Another just arrived at Madras and will immediately load for Port Blair.  No IJ move on Singers yet.  An Aussie division is on the map enroute from Aden to...somewhere.  Possibilities are several, but if Steve continues to focus heavily on NoPac while leaving Singapore untended, the Allies might try a "Fortress Sabang" gambit in western Sumatra. 



BBfanboy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/16/2012 6:22:56 PM)

With Pt. Blair/Cocos guarding your flank, I like the Fortress Sabang idea. Never saw anyone try anything like it.



khyberbill -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/16/2012 9:28:07 PM)

quote:

Never saw anyone try anything like it.


I did once and Admiral Nelson kicked my butt. It took him a while to get the forces in motion but once he did the combined attacks of Bettys and KB kept me from re-supplying Sabang while he marched a large army up the coast. This was in mid 42 and I probably went in too lightly to begin with.



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/16/2012 11:05:59 PM)

Under most conditions i wouldn't do a Fortress Sabang. But if Steve truly commits his air force to the West Coast North America, his army to Australia, and lets the Allies hang onto Singers for awhile yet, I would certainly consider it.



khyberbill -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/16/2012 11:38:33 PM)

That is what I thought too, but the presence of Betty's and Zeros at Georgetown really hurt me. I did not have enough air support at Sabang. I brought in some CV's and some Betty's got through the CAP and down they went. I admit I did not play it well but I wish I had gone to Siboret instead.



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/16/2012 11:55:56 PM)

I haven't decided to do it yet, but if I did the Allies would have Port Blair, Cocos, some of the small islands around Sabang, and then on western Sumatra I'd build up Sabang and at least one port to the east along the north coast.

If Steve's airforce is truly committed to the West Coast USA in a long, major operation, he's going to have holes in other regions.  I've got to find and exploit those.  Sabang is one possibility.



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/18/2012 12:37:08 AM)

1/17/42
 
NoPac: No sign of the KB today, so I've lost track of her, which is lamentable.  I'm moving shipping out of San Fran and preparing to do the same for LA and SD.  Defensive AV at Coal Harbor up to 120 with supplies finally out of the "orange."  By and large, defenses on the West Coast have now been attended to and configured as best I can do under the circumstances.  Now comes the waiting and tweaking as things develop.

CenPac:  Japanese patrols sighted both USN CL/DD combat TFs. Betties from Babeldaob sortied ineffectively against the southern TF, which will retire east along New Guinea's north coast.  The Detroit TF entered the East China Sea and made it to within six hexes of Shanghai (!) and 13 hexes of Keijo, Korea.  No sorties were launched against this TF, but I'm sure Steve is jumping all over this situation.  I toyed with the idea of splitting up the TF and raiding a variety of ports, but elected instead to retire SE, to a point south of Iwo Jima.  A successful raid against a juicy transport TF in the enemy's rear would have been fun, but I suspect these incursions will at the very least get Steve's attention, persuading him to shift around some aircraft and ships to handle this threat.

DEI:  No big push on anywhere.  Singers still unbesieged.  SigInt of a few small units bound for Mersing and Java.  Most enemy activity is in the Darwin/Timor/Ceram triangle.



John 3rd -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/18/2012 2:42:38 AM)

These questions about Sabang and Pt Blair just reinforce my view that the Japanese MUST get all the DEI fully taken before launching the main thrust for 1942. Leaving the possibility of an early lodgement of the perimeter makes no sense when you HAVE to be committed elsewhere for your main effort.



GreyJoy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/18/2012 10:36:17 AM)

I see you always do the same old mistake.... very few maps!!!!! [:D] 

How am i suppose to catch up with your AARs if you never put screenshots!?[:-][:-][:D]

Cribtop is, as always, too good towards me... i would have never dared to bomb tokyo bay during the second month of war...i was too busy licking my wounds.

Fortress Sabang Dan? Really? I mean...everybody in WITP world now knows your former winning strategy of Palembang Festung...and PH is surely one of the most experienced players out there...mmm...sounds too risky!



GreyJoy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/18/2012 10:42:12 AM)

A large strategic map screenshot will be very usefull...please[:)]



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/18/2012 1:56:22 PM)

First a shot of the East China Sea raid to tickle your fancy....

[image]local://upfiles/8143/4740A44CB3FE49699F8137B5CE7D3E89.jpg[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/18/2012 2:04:57 PM)

Strategic situation 1/17/42.

My best guess at this point is that Steve is focusing on taking NoPac bases, will build them heavily, will switch off and invade Hawaii, and has some major intentions in Oz.

To counter this, the Allies are concentrating air defenses in CONUS, will leave Hawaii to fend for itself, are reinforcing Oz iwth aircraft and ground troops, and will try to apply pressure, most likely in the Bay of Bengal region.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/203656ABCE544877A6D436B1E4B855B3.jpg[/image]



John 3rd -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/18/2012 2:10:07 PM)

The cost of playing in the Aleutians this early in dead winter is terrible on ships. It is a very strange move but we'll see what happens.



jeffk3510 -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/18/2012 2:24:04 PM)

I am very curious to see what your rading TF will do...could you post a screen shot of the makeup of the force?

Thanks!



GreyJoy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/18/2012 2:41:17 PM)

That's exactly what i wanted CR! Customer care [:D]

That position is very very interesting...there must be hundreds of ships moving around in those waters in Jan 42... Bombing a port might not be the best idea cause without any spotter and with a DL = 0 you may find yourself with nothing but a jar of flies...i'd go for a bold raid on mutiple targets (C)

I also agree with John...should be very very expensive to invade NOPAC during winter...i remember i repulsed a 4 division invasions with only a reinforced canadian Bde...



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/18/2012 2:51:27 PM)

The TF that penetrated into the East China Sea consists of CL Detroit and five Mahan-class DDs.  It's amazing the TF hasn't bumped into an enemy TF of some kind while transiting these waters.



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/18/2012 2:53:09 PM)

It's costly to invade Arctic regions in winter time (mainly Aleutians and Kuriles), but there's no penalty for invading NoPac bases south of the Artcic winter weather line.  So the bases around Juneau and to the south haven't imposed a landing penalty on Steve, but the Allied troops have fought well due to the forest terrain bonus.



GreyJoy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/18/2012 2:54:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The TF that penetrated into the East China Sea consists of CL Detroit and five Mahan-class DDs.  It's amazing the TF hasn't bumped into an enemy TF of some kind while transiting these waters.


The CL Detroit has been one of my favourite ships...She, along with her sisters of her class, sustained alone my Solomons campaign during 1943/44...unvaluable!

Does she has any kind of seaplane aboard? If so, are you keeping it down in order not to get spotted?



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/18/2012 3:00:55 PM)

1/18/42
 
NoPac:  No sign of the KB.  More SigInt of various IJ support troops bound for some of the bases taken (Steve is bringing in plenty of engineers, HQ units, etc., so he intends to make serious use of his bases).

CenPac:  The Detroit TF moves east, right through Amami Shima, evades detection entirely, and once again manages not to bump into any enemy TFs.  Detroit will proceed to a point south of Iwo Jima before breaking north.  The other combat TF also evaded detection and is retiring east along New Guinea's north coast.

Oz:  Queen Elizabeth delivered part of 27th USA Div. to Melbourne about a week ago, joined shortly therafter by a US Amry tank unit.  A Brit brigade is inbound to Oz.  Several USAAF fighter squadrons are enroute to Oz from Capetown.

Cocos Island:  An Indian CD unit is inboud, with Force Z, two American CVs and an RN CV providing nearby support.  I need to get engineers here.

Fortress Sabang?:  Still not sure about this option, though I'm interested in the possibilities.  An Oz division is aboard ship inbound to Colombo from Aden.  I might send her on to Sumatra if things still look promising in about a week.  An Indian CD unit is inbound to Port Blair from Madras.

Burma:  I think Japan has enough now to take Rangoon.

China: Things have quieted down a bit.  The Allies have 3,500 AV at Nankang, with another 1,200 in the forest hex to the rear, protecting the road to Sian.  Japan has 20 more more units, mainly in the two hexes to the north of Nankang.  I'm waiting to see if these troops move on Nankang.



GreyJoy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (6/18/2012 3:44:00 PM)

Can you ID what kind of major units he has committed to NOPAC? The idea of Fortress Sabang can, imho, be developped only if he's really heavily committed to somewhere else...cause, be sure of that, as soon as he realizes that you're reinforcing a place so close to his precious oilfields, he's gonna send everything he has against you...



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