RE: Monster Tutorial (Full Version)

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JFalk68 -> RE: Monster Tutorial (5/19/2012 5:38:38 PM)

What difficulty level did you pull this off in? I'm still trying to figure out a valid strategy for Normal level AI.
I found that in the boardgame version, this scenario gets a Pz 38t to help out with.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stormbringer3

Here's a couple of things that helped me finally win. The taking of the rear objective on the right has to be timed just perfectly. If you take it too soon, the last T-34 will turn and retake it. If you time it just right, it will turn to retake the hex removing it from the fight in the center, but it won't have enough turns to retake the objective. It will fall just short. Also put a PzII in the woods on the right of the center objectives. When the 1st T-34 moves adjacent, move your PzII away toward your lines and right. Most of the time the T-34 will chase and you keep moving away, keeping your unit alive as long as possible. As the T-34 turns to chase it will turn toward the right exposing it's flank and rear to your PzIIIs. If possible go for the kill. If you get the kill then you only have the middle T-34 to contend with and it doesn't matter how many units you lose as long as you keep it from retaking one of the objective hexes.
I hope this helps.




Lebatron -> RE: Monster Tutorial (5/19/2012 5:52:57 PM)

Two main reasons why the Monster scenario is hard on the PC than it is on the board game. First reason and a minor one. A mistake was made to make initiative random. The Germans are supposed to make the first move. It really hurts when the Soviets go first and the very first shot they make hits one of your PzIIIe's. Just restart right away until you get the first move which you can use to get at least one smoke down before they Soviets fire.

And the second reason this is so damn hard on PC is the use of Persistent AP. It really messes with the balance of this scenario a lot. It gives the Soviets the all to easy freedom to switch firing units as needed. Want to advance on that Soviet tank in the woods near you while he just activated a fresh unit elsewhere? Under Classic AP that Sovient tank would have to take an opportunity action to defend itself or use CAP. Doing so is more expensive action wise for the Soviets. But Persistent AP makes switching units compleatly free. There is no downside anymore. Only experienced CoH players will understand just how much this impacts a scenario like this. In the board game this scenario was very closely balanced. Under Persistent AP it is grossly in favor of the Soviets. I haven't really given it much thought on how to balance it but off the top of my head I'd say remove 2 Soviet tanks and 1 T34 on turn 3. When Classic AP is working fully it is clear to me that the unit mix will have to be different between Persistent and CLassic in a lot of scenarios. But Monsters is one that it's more easy to see that.



stormbringer3 -> RE: Monster Tutorial (5/19/2012 6:32:55 PM)

Normal difficulty. I'm retired, so when I stated earlier that it took me around two full days to win the scenario I literally meant it. I had to do this over and over so maybe it comes down to just getting the "right" die roll at a crucial time.



stormbringer3 -> RE: Monster Tutorial (5/19/2012 7:03:35 PM)

IMO, this scenario is way too hard for a tutorial, especially since you get to do it again in the 1st group of regular game scenarios. I would make the tutorial easier and leave it the same when you encounter it again later.



Svend Karlson -> RE: Monster Tutorial (5/19/2012 7:37:03 PM)

This scenario has humbled me half a dozen times so far. So glad to see that I'm actually part of a club [:)]



JFalk68 -> RE: Monster Tutorial (5/19/2012 7:46:41 PM)

Joram has posted a successful AAR as the Germans, be sure to check it out!



Duck Doc -> RE: Monster Tutorial (5/27/2012 10:19:53 PM)

Kept at it as the Germans & got a victory. I learned a lot & had fun at the same time. If it had been easy I wouldn't have learned as much. Great gaming experience so far. Love the board game feel. Mixes the best of board & pc gaming. Thanks also for the tips on this thread.



kvob -> RE: Monster Tutorial (5/28/2012 5:49:08 AM)

I'm still struggling with this and it's getting more infuriating each time. In my latest attempt, I had a tank on a hill getting fired at by a Russki. Attempting to fire in reply, I get 'impossible shot'. The Russki tank moves closer, still 'impossible shot'(in open ground). The tank is adjacent, still 'impossible shot'. Okay, I think, perhaps it's the crest of the hill. I move and manouver into the hex directly behind and adjacent to the attacking Russki and I still can't get a shot at it. Next thing I know, I'm dead. One thing that is really difficult in this game is working out elevation. The graphics are just not clear enough.



JFalk68 -> RE: Monster Tutorial (5/28/2012 6:44:33 AM)

kvob, there is a Pz-38t missing from the scenario. It should be added back soon
quote:

ORIGINAL: kvob

I'm still struggling with this and it's getting more infuriating each time. In my latest attempt, I had a tank on a hill getting fired at by a Russki. Attempting to fire in reply, I get 'impossible shot'. The Russki tank moves closer, still 'impossible shot'(in open ground). The tank is adjacent, still 'impossible shot'. Okay, I think, perhaps it's the crest of the hill. I move and manouver into the hex directly behind and adjacent to the attacking Russki and I still can't get a shot at it. Next thing I know, I'm dead. One thing that is really difficult in this game is working out elevation. The graphics are just not clear enough.




kvob -> RE: Monster Tutorial (5/28/2012 6:55:12 PM)

To be honest, I don't think a Pz-38t will make a blind bit of difference with my problem. Here's why - the manual states
Hover over enemy to target...blah blah.....If you are unable to attack the reason is shown at the top of the screen.

This simply is not the case. With impossible shot, you get the dots indicating LOS but no reason as to why it is an impossible shot. Is it an impossible shot because I can't roll the number required? Could I use CAP to make an impossible shot possible? I don't know because it doesn't say why it's impossible.

Now, if it said something like 'hill crest', 'hull down', 'heavy woodland'.....anything.... At least then I'd know the reason why I seem to get line of sight but no chance to hit.




JFalk68 -> RE: Monster Tutorial (5/28/2012 8:17:11 PM)

You might not be getting "impossible shot" because of LOS, it might just be an impossible shot because of the target you are attacking.  Was your tank a Pz IVd and where you attacking a T-34?  If you can recall the particulars, maybe we can figure out what happened.



kvob -> RE: Monster Tutorial (5/29/2012 5:15:21 AM)

In the instance I described previously, the Russian tank was a T34 but I can't remember the German type.
Again, what you said about figuring out what happened - this is my point. Everywhere in life, things go wrong but we can't put those errors right until we know where we have gone wrong. The same applies to this game. I have no doubt that my poor player ability is the real cause of the problem but without informational feedback I can do nothing about it. This is where frustration creeps in. Saying Impossible Shot tells me absolutely nothing, therefore, I can't modify my behaviour because I don't know what is wrong. If the game were to say something like (in the instance of the T34) Armour modifier too high, then I would know that my gun was not up to the task.

It may seem like I am off on a bit of a rant over this but I've spent quite some time (and money) on this, got absolutely nowhere, and now I am about ready to give this game up as a lost cause.




Erik Rutins -> RE: Monster Tutorial (5/29/2012 5:20:49 AM)

Hi Kvob,

First, make sure you try a scenario other than "Monsters" as it's one of the hardest.

Does the firepower vs. defense system make sense to you? There's no armor modifier, you're just trying to roll 2d6 + firepower against the enemy's defense as your target number. There are modifiers to the roll and defense, but armor is already factored into the defense number you see. You sometimes need some of the other modifiers to help you make a shot effective.

When you shoot, the text in the bottom also lists the modifiers and values that applied to that shot.

Regards,

- Erik



kvob -> RE: Monster Tutorial (5/29/2012 6:53:10 AM)

Thanks for that info. I'll try and keep that in mind. I must admit, getting to grips with Monsters has become a bit of an (unhealthy) obsession for me.



whako -> RE: Monster Tutorial (6/5/2012 11:09:16 PM)

Monsters Scenario is one of the easiest tutorials to master once you know how to use smoke. My Advice is Smoke, Smoke and more Smoke and you will see how easy that scenario is with or without the added panzer 38t.



kvob -> RE: Monster Tutorial (6/6/2012 4:06:18 AM)

I've been using smoke but still no good. I target the anti tank gun first and then start smoking the tanks. By the time I lay the second smoke I've usually already almost lost a tank(usually to the armoured car who always seems to get in the killer shot). By the time I'm facing the T34s, I've already taken heavy casualties.



whako -> RE: Monster Tutorial (6/7/2012 5:44:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kvob

I've been using smoke but still no good. I target the anti tank gun first and then start smoking the tanks. By the time I lay the second smoke I've usually already almost lost a tank(usually to the armoured car who always seems to get in the killer shot). By the time I'm facing the T34s, I've already taken heavy casualties.

Are you placing a smoke round on a hex that can block 2 LOS? Are you using your bonus CAPs for additional smoke rounds? Are you Attempting to stay out of range from there AT guns and armour. Make them come to you. Let AI be aggresive.



kvob -> RE: Monster Tutorial (6/7/2012 6:42:28 AM)

Yes I'm trying to block line of sight but perhaps not efficiently enough. Also, I didn't think of using the bonus CAPs for extra smoke rounds.
That would probably be a big help.

Sometimes it seems so obvious when it's suddenly pointed out to you[&:]



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