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larryfulkerson -> RE: 16Jan42 Moo v. Fulkerson (8/8/2012 1:22:00 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: moore4807
quote:
ORIGINAL: brotherbaldrick
As a side note I discovered something quite useful for improving Jap airframe R&D, it's really
obvious but it's taken me years to realize it! (a real Homer "Dow!" moment). So R&D works like
this: for every fully repaired research air-frame factory the game engine will check for
production in the same way as it does for factories that are actually in production, so if you
have a factory of 15 points you've got roughly a 50% chance that it will produce an air-frame in
any given turn, if you have a factory of 30 points it will produce an air-frame every
turn.
At the risk of being wrong. . . Your statement above is correct, however, succeeding without bankrupting the economy is not sustainable. My reasoning is highlighted in bold below.
13.2.2.4 AIRCRAFT FACTORIES
Aircraft Factories – These are the factories that mass produce the fighters, bombers, and other specialty planes used in the war effort. Each day, aircraft factories that are producing aircraft that are available for production (the date is equal to or later than their availability date) will attempt to produce aircraft. The number of factories in a location represents a monthly production rate. All aircraft produced are added to their country’s replacement pool.
For aircraft to be built, there must be Heavy Industry in the pool equal to 18 times the number of engines required to build each plane; when a plane is built, the appropriate number of Heavy Industry is consumed. For example, to produce a 2 engine plane, 36 Heavy Industry will be consumed, while a single engine plane consumes 18 Heavy Industry.
Each day, each location will build a number of aircraft equal to:
(Number Of Aircraft Factories + random number between 1 and 30) / 30. (Any fractions are rounded down.)
In order for these aircraft to be added to the replacement pool, there must be an equal number of aircraft engines of the appropriate type (see Engine Factories, below) required by the aircraft built (only for Japanese aircraft, Allied aircraft do not require engines) and heavy industry points equal to the number of engines required. These engines and heavy industry from their respective pools are expended when the aircraft are produced and placed in the replacement pool.
This also displays the number of engines mounted by each aircraft for which the player may exchange existing aircraft in the format “aircraft name (engine type x number of engines)”. In addition, the currently selected aircraft on the left of the pop-out has the number of engines mounted written immediately below the aircraft listing
quote:
The same thing happens for R&D, only here the factory produces 1 R&D point, when an air-frame
type being researched accumulates 100 points the date at which the air-frame becomes available
advances by 1 month (you can see this happening in WitP Tracker). Also some air-frame factories
can be upgraded to the next model without their factory points being damaged, so for instance
in scenario RA 4.6, the A6M2 upgrades to the A6M5.
Again true, but HOW are you producing enough HI, fuel and supply to have any war and production at the same time? I'm BARELY keeping Maebashi supplied from Tokyo by air to produce 56 A6M2's each month and the HI demands are more than I can keep up with, I'm paying repair points to expand HI first which will EVENTUALLY allow me to make more supply. What are your Shipyards, Armaments, and Vehicles doing?
13.3.1.1 AIRCRAFT FACTORY ALTERATIONS
Aircraft Factories– Players may convert an aircraft factory to create a different kind of aircraft. This change will cause a reduction in the number of aircraft factories, and damage to the remaining aircraft factories. Subtract the durability of the old aircraft from the durability of the new aircraft and the larger the value the greater the reduction (negative values will still cause a reduction). The choice of aircraft that can be selected for conversion will also depend on the selection of the Realism option “Realistic R&D” (see section 2.4.8)
Aircraft factories that exist prior to the availability date of the aircraft will be considered to be researching the aircraft and may move up the availability date of the aircraft. Aircraft factories will upgrade on their own to produce new models of aircraft when those aircraft become available (instant upgrade with no damage to factories). However, this will not happen prior to 1942. On January 1, 1942, all factories will upgrade if there is a new aircraft to upgrade to, and then thereafter factories will upgrade as new planes become available.
I hate being the killjoy, I think if you have done this and survived the economic chaos, then by all means I'm in! I am in late Jan42 in my game against TommyG (playing as the Japanese) and I'm having all kinds of problems sustaining supply and production... I did just as you did and streamlined my aircraft types to a couple engines and maximized production of those for a two year war plan. Little did I realize that I was going to use MASSIVE amounts of Supply and HI to pay for these "fixes".
My war plans are crimped due to supply issues (and my own incompetence!) and I'm just starting to see planes (A6M2 + Oscar fighter variants, Sally, Lily, Nell & Betty bombers) rolling off the line in any appreciable numbers. So far as I know the plants will upgrade to the A6M3/3A then the Sen Baku before the M5...am I wrong here? Even with your moving the A6M5 variant up on a month for month schedule it would take a year to get it into 1943 and the existing production would already be onto the Sen Baku??? (I'd rather have the Sen Baku then Oscars anyway...)
quote:
Now to the blindingly obvious:
What I've done is concentrate R&D and production on just a few a/c models and I've converted a
lot of other factories of less desirable models to just this select few. For instance the D5Y1
Myojo is a pile of cr*p, so I converted it to A6M2, likewise the Ki-36 Ida is horrible and
useless, so I've converted that factory to A6M2 as well, each of these factories I've then
increased to 30 points each, made sure there's more than 10000 supply in their base hexes and
then waited 30 or so days for the factories to fully repair. Great so now I have 2 extra, fully
repaired, 30 point, A6M2 factories, next step - upgrade them to A6M5!! They should convert
without a single point becoming damaged. Now I've got two factories each producing a research
point every turn, and in 50 days the availablity of A6M5 will advance 1 month closer!
But we're not finished yet, at Maebashi you've got R&D going on for the A6M5 already, problem is
the game starts with the factory at 10 points and they are all damaged, and that damage won't
repair itself in 10 days, in fact I doubt it would repair in 50 days! So what to do, no problem,
convert the factory to the earlier A6M2 model, increase it to 30 points and in 30 days you will
have another fully repaired factory - then convert it back to A6M5 - hey presto yet
another fully repaired, fully functioning R&D factory. Now you've got 3 R&D shops producing 3
R&D points every day, and in a little over one month your A6M5 will advance 1 month! Not
bad eh? But we're still not done! Because I've discovered that as of patch V1.01. 08r9 the
number of engines you have "in stock" can also help boost R&D. This is how it works - for the
A6M5 it uses an Ha-35 engine, if you can get your spare engine count up to 500 (and keep it there) you will receive an extra 1 point in R&D on all models that use this engine, every day! So now you have 4 R&D points being produced every day for the A6M5 and in just 25 days it will advance 1 month!
Of course you have to work out which models you want to persue like this and make sure that
their factories have an upgrade path, it's no use converting a whole bunch of factories to
B5N2's and then realising that they don't upgrade to the B6N1!!!
This post is from Damian in The Japan Econ 101 setup doc. it explains much better than I can...
quote:
ORIGINAL: icepharmy
Do engines advance separately from airframes? I understand that 1 R&D advance needs 1 R&D engine of the right type.
Separately, and that's right
quote:
In RA3 for example both the Judy and its engine the Aichi 60 appear at 42/10 with no research allocated. But lets say for example I want to advance both by a month.
Would that mean I need 100 R&D airframes plus 100 Aichi engines AND an additional 100 Aichi engines for the engine to move forward at the same rate as the airframe?
You need 100 points, not 100 engine factories (or airframes) to advance. I don't know about RA3, but I would say that R&D for engines and airframes seem to work at the same rate;So say you are getting 30(0) = 30 points/mth frames, you'll need the same for engines 30(0).
*1* Individual airframe factories are pretty much limited to 30 points per month. [Edit] Both frames and engines are inefficient over 30 R&D
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Another example (and more important in this case) is the Nakajima Ha-45. Lets say I want to move the george from 43/5 to 43/3. That would mean that I would have to move the engine forward from 43/9 to 43/3. Would that mean I have to build enough Ha45 engines to get 200 engines just for the george advancement, plus X amount of engines to match R&D airframes for Franks,Frances,Peggys and 600 PLUS Ha-45 on top of those requirements?
If this is the way it works, then I would probably also need even more then the above numbers of extra engines, as die rolls mean not every 100 will produce a 1 month advance
Once again you are confusing factories with points. Points are accumulative, factories are per month. You just need to work on the same rate of advance.
So say you get all the George factories repaired by 11/42, giving you 4 months to produce 200 points for the 2 months advance. You'd need 200/4 = 50 points/mth = 30(0) + 20(0)
Whereas the engine factory can be 50(0) IIRC see *1* above. I will double check this with a test later to ease my mind.
[edit]Tested and I was incorrect, you'd need a 30(0) and a 20(0) engine factories too.
Cheers
--Damian--
So um.......I'd be curious to hear a reply about Jim's contention. I haven't been paying much attention to my R&D efforts and have
just made sure that I have 10K supplies in each of the appropriate cities to facilitate the repair but I don't seem to have the economic
issues that Jim mentioned. Maybe I'M doing something wrong.
EDIT: Here's where my Air R&D is right now.
[image]local://upfiles/16287/057927E2CE5B443E8E827F1ECF9C87DF.gif[/image]
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