Battle of Midway (Full Version)

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reg113 -> Battle of Midway (6/4/2012 4:52:45 PM)

70 years ago!



Miller -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/4/2012 4:59:21 PM)

I wonder how many surviving aircrew are left?



jmalter -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/4/2012 11:44:49 PM)

as a young'un, the 1st naval history book i read was Walter Lord's 'Day of Infamy'. but it wasn't until i read Prange's 'Miracle at Midway' that i got the USN bug in a big way. the story of Midway captured me - Rochefort & Hypo, Layton & Nimitz, Yorktown's crew & shipyard workers, Marines digging in, long-range PBY patrols, the valiant VT-sqns, & the victorious dive-bombers - wow, the whole thing came together, at the time when it was most needed.

they all created history, while paving the 1st stage of the road to V-J day. i'm not at all religious, nor even especially patriotic - but when i put up the flag on Memorial & Veteran's day, it's the men of Midway i revere the most.



Sakai007 -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 12:31:49 AM)

A big salute to the men who fought at Midway, every single one! The one thing that always got me was how the Yorktown was lost, after a valiant effort to repair damage, only to have a submarine slip a fish into her and the DD assisting her. You can't write movies with more drama, twists, and an overall happy ending like real life provided at the Battle of Midway. I don't even have to mention VT-8 on this forum, as I know you ALL know the story, but what courage! If it was the men of VT-8 versus the Klingons, Borg, Bin Laden, or any other nemesis, I would put my money on VT-8 every single time. There is a special place in the ever after for men such as these, of this I am certain!!!

Hand Salute!



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 12:40:03 AM)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AV11XaOdfg&feature=fvsr

We'll meet at MIDWAY!.. naval.. war.. [8D]



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 12:42:15 AM)


we mourn lieutenant tomonaga



[image]local://upfiles/28382/A4702B38CC934DE18C830584EB241FC1.jpg[/image]



spence -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 12:56:21 AM)

The Battle of Midway Roundtable has many many entries which are written by the veterans who flew the missions (Jimmy Thach over the Kido Butai, How the Hornet Air Group got lost, What was Lt Grey was up at 20000 ft to while Torpedo 8 was getting massacred at 1000 ft). There are also quite a few original documents pertaining to the battle posted there. There are links to a number of articles posted elsewhere by veterans of the battle as well. Pretty cool site overall.

http://www.midway42.org/index.html




wdolson -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 2:32:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

I wonder how many surviving aircrew are left?


I know someone who's father was a radio operator on a PBY flying out of Midway. His plane was the first one to spot the Japanese on the morning of the 5th and reported the Japanese were fleeing.

I believe I heard he died a couple of years ago, thought he might be around. I haven't seen her much in the last couple of years, so I don't know for sure if her father is still around.

Most of those who are left would be in their 90s now.

Bill



Phanatikk -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 2:57:12 AM)

I think the USS Hammann was unlucky. The Lady Lex went down as well when the Hammann was assisting her.



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 3:02:26 AM)


IJN submarines are largely underrated.

Despite the incompetent handling of the 1942 carrier battles, IJN submarines put Yorktown and Wasp down to davey jones.

So the midway debacle was less of a disaster than it could have been.



kevin_hx -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 6:49:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf


we mourn lieutenant tomonaga



[image]local://upfiles/28382/A4702B38CC934DE18C830584EB241FC1.jpg[/image]


Which game is this?



comte -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 7:07:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kevin_hx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf


we mourn lieutenant tomonaga



[image]local://upfiles/28382/A4702B38CC934DE18C830584EB241FC1.jpg[/image]


Which game is this?


Aces of the Pacific



kevin_hx -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 8:04:09 AM)

thank you very much



Cavalry Corp -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 9:34:04 AM)

In my game ( PBEM SCN 2 ) by July 42 Jap subs have participated or sunk 3 US CV...

Jap subs if managed well can be a big menace.



Capt Hornblower -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 9:35:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf

Despite the incompetent handling of the 1942 carrier battles, IJN submarines put Yorktown and Wasp down to davey jones.

So the midway debacle was less of a disaster than it could have been.


Are you kidding me?! You're really saying you're sympathetic to the Japanese Empire in real life?



USSAmerica -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 1:01:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower


quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf

Despite the incompetent handling of the 1942 carrier battles, IJN submarines put Yorktown and Wasp down to davey jones.

So the midway debacle was less of a disaster than it could have been.


Are you kidding me?! You're really saying you're sympathetic to the Japanese Empire in real life?



Easy, easy.

Perhaps CS is referring to the tactical capabilities of the two sides and not making a blanket political statement as you assume him to be making. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. [:)]



mike scholl 1 -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 2:14:29 PM)

Oops!



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 3:30:02 PM)


Yep. Aces of the Pacific [:)]

Il-2 and other flight sims could learn a lot about atmosphere and immersion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITcs_MRRMhw



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 3:36:12 PM)


*best features ~

*historic missions
*historic aces and their profiles
*medal ceremonies
*other pilots in the mess hall giving you tips


and above all
the mechanics and relative performance of the aircraft
were designed when a lot of pilots were still around,
so they are probably more accurate than modern sims

oh... and it came with a 300 page manual that included history,
tactics, aircraft specs, and even discussed the weight and effects of different types of ammo








[image]local://upfiles/28382/B08E345E0B0244C2960F6DD59B60CE27.jpg[/image]



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 3:38:26 PM)


I can post the manual here if someone can help me to open .MVB files [:)]

it needs a really old 32 bit Windows? [:(]



mdiehl -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 6:09:11 PM)

quote:

Are you kidding me?! You're really saying you're sympathetic to the Japanese Empire in real life?


I did not get that vibe off his post. "Incompetent" strikes me as a rather accurate description of Japanese operational planning and plane handling at Midway, and it might reasonably describe every decision made by Stanhope Ring during that engagement.



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 6:18:39 PM)


A man of science, I take no sides in war

Might makes Right


well done to Spruance for beating the japanese



Sakai007 -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 6:44:01 PM)

Aces of the Pacific was the reason I begged my grandparents to buy a computer back in the 90's when I was a kid. My gramps being a WWII Pacific Navy vet was easy to convince, my grandmother (minister of domestic finances, lol) was not so much, but majority rules! ;) I played that sim for hours on end, only flight sim I've ever finished a dynamic campaign in from start to finish. I still have the collectors edition disc around here somewhere..... Has the manual in a more modern format IIRC, I will have to look.



SuluSea -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 7:45:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

quote:

Are you kidding me?! You're really saying you're sympathetic to the Japanese Empire in real life?


I did not get that vibe off his post. "Incompetent" strikes me as a rather accurate description of Japanese operational planning and plane handling at Midway, and it might reasonably describe every decision made by Stanhope Ring during that engagement.

quote:

Stanhope Ring

Boy the let Ring have it in this book--

The Unknown Battle of Midway: The Destruction of the American Torpedo Squadrons

It's been a few years since I read it but I found it very interesting reading.



spence -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 9:21:32 PM)

In one of the back issues of the Battle of Midway Roundtable there is an article entitled "Flight to Nowhere" by one of the pilots who flew the mission...the article was severely critical of Ring's skill as a navigator. In subsequent issues though there was considerable discussion about exactly where Cdr Ring did lead the strike group: apparently the burning oil tanks on Midway provided a visual reference to the pilots of the dive bombers/fighters when they first left the Hornet You sorta have to look around the index of back issues to find all the stuff but a lot of it comes from some of the actual aviators. It's interesting reading in any case.

Interestingly Capt/Admiral Mitscher doesn't come off all that well in the discussions either. Unlike the other carriers the squadron after action reports for the Hornet squadrons were "lost" along with the air group's after action report. Mitscher was certainly in a position to make sure that Stanhope Ring never again even rode in a blue-painted airplane yet the guy made Rear Admiral.



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 9:31:03 PM)


carrier groups failing to find their targets was quite common - see second wave of 27 Vals at Eastern Solomons [X(]



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 9:42:21 PM)


quote:

I still have the collectors edition disc around here somewhere..... Has the manual in a more modern format IIRC, I will have to look.



Yes, PLEASE UPLOAD [8D][:)][X(]

that is the single greatest game manual of all time



Q-Ball -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 9:47:47 PM)

If anyone here has not read "Shattered Sword"......don't walk, RUN to the nearest computer to order from Amazon.

I 100% guarantee satisfaction if you are reading this (which means you are interested in the Pacific War)



wdolson -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 11:19:23 PM)

This book also goes into a lot of detail about Ring's incompetence:
http://www.amazon.com/Dawn-Like-Thunder-Torpedo-Squadron/dp/0316021393

The book is primarily about VT-8, but it also went into a lot of detail about the entire air group at Midway. Air Group 8 suffered from some pretty poor leadership. Waldron should have been CAG, he was the only competent commander they had. VT-8 was the first squadron to get TBFs because of Waldron. They just missed being on the Hornet at Midway.

Waldron's replacement Swede Larson was a fearless warrior, but an abysmal leader. In game terms, he would have aggression of 90, but leadership of 30.

The author in the appendix said he was initially only going to write about VT-8 at Midway, but as he researched, he found a whole untold story about the Ring fiasco at Midway and the later deployment of VT-8 during the Guadalcanal campaigns.

He did say Ring proved himself to be a very competent staff officer, which is why he did rise in rank later. Some people are just not cut out for some jobs and Ring should never have been in a cockpit. Or at least not in command of a combat unit.

Bill



mikkey -> RE: Battle of Midway (6/5/2012 11:50:19 PM)

Sulu and Bill, thanks for tips on interesting books about VT-8



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