RE: Distant Worlds Extended (Full Version)

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gerishnakov -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/13/2014 1:41:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChildServices

Except it's not fascism. The Nazis actually encouraged free enterprise and for the most part let the market do its thing.


True, but Nazism wasn't pure fascism. A much better example of it, and the original, was Mussolini's Italy.



ChildServices -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/13/2014 6:20:31 PM)

That's still not really a good example, though. Fascist Italy went through numerous rewrites of its economic policy during the ~20 years that it existed.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Benito Mussolini
"We want to be aristocrats and democrats, conservatives and liberals, reactionaries and revolutionaries, legalists and antilegalistami - depending on the circumstances of the time, place and situation."

The only reason I'd mention Nazi Germany over Italy, is because the National Socialists actually did have an economic policy.

Really, if we want to talk about the economics of fascism, there simply aren't actually any set economics of fascism (even if we restrict what fascism is to Italy). You could say that they all had a few common traits, but none of the effects of those traits equated to anything that corporate nationalism does in this game. Like I said before; state capitalism does not equate to what corporate nationalism does.
You can attribute more of the negative similarities to the crippling war-weariness that took over towards the end of WW2 than you can to anything else.



pycco -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/14/2014 3:59:16 AM)

i noticed that you can put the sakuri as a race, do they have all the techs and what not that they do when the story event triggers. also if i play with the story of the sakuri on will they be able to be triggered by the story events?



necaradan666 -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/14/2014 4:35:20 AM)

Seems when playing humans in extended, max races on, plentiful independents, I never see any human independents to conquer, the immediate surroundings are always full of aliens further out is just more aliens. Is that because it's trying to squeeze 37 races and independents into the map or something else? leaving me solitary in a unfriendly galaxy.



Ardryn -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/14/2014 5:40:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: necaradan666

Seems when playing humans in extended, max races on, plentiful independents, I never see any human independents to conquer, the immediate surroundings are always full of aliens further out is just more aliens. Is that because it's trying to squeeze 37 races and independents into the map or something else? leaving me solitary in a unfriendly galaxy.

If you mean independents as in just planets with that race on them then it's totally random and nothing influences it and all the independent setting on the game start options does is determine how many planets like that exist. I do believe that for each empire in the galaxy that race's homeworld will be a separate system with that race on one of the planets.



Nidhogg -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/15/2014 5:43:41 AM)

Compatibility DW:Expanded 1.0.1 with DW:U 1.9.5.3 ?



Tehlongone -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/15/2014 8:24:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gerishnakov
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tehlongone

I was thinking, after seeing [Haree78's] Authoritarian Eugenics government it occurred to me that it was possible to mod Corporate Nationalism.

It never really made much sense and only existed as a way to hamstring yourself or the AI. It literally had no saving grace whatsoever. It's represented as a dystopian government which is fine except maybe it should be at least marginally useful?

My suggestion: Rename to Megacorporation


quote:

ORIGINAL: Haree78

@Tehlongone
I like the idea of changing the Corporate Nationalism government somehow however I wont be doing that within this mod, I still want to keep the vanilla game as it is so that players can 'upgrade' to Extended and not feel they are playing a different game.


Corporate Nationalism = Fascism

I'm not sure why the devs didn't just call it that. Mabye there's some stigma attached to that word and people would feel weird using the government? I don't know. Either way it's a terrible government type. In my own mod I de-specialsed it making it available to everyone and now I've got an interesting situation in-game where two empires locked in war with each other have both adopted it! Art reflecting life methinks?

Ehh... I think it sounds more like Communism (soviet-style), or rather a non-existent government type definitely not fascism which were nowhere near this bad, nor worked by confiscating all private property. Fascism was often more effective than other dictatorships, not worse at least. Not from an economic perspective.



Rahal -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/15/2014 9:34:09 AM)

I'd rather this mod didn't turn ideological. This is a game: each government type has to have advantages & disadvantages.

Corporate Nationalism is fascism by another name. i.e. the government is organized like a large corporation. You have a 'board' made up of business leaders + military + PR which answers to a leader whose job is to be seen to be decisive & aggressive.

This looks like nonsense in hindsight & historically fascism was a disaster (woefully inefficient & shambolic vs it's adversaries) but at the time many serious people - like the german business elite who put a dictator in power & onlookers including economists like Mises & Hayek - believed this would work.
So with this being a game we just run with it and pretend it does?



MorningDew -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/15/2014 1:47:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL:
I'd rather this mod didn't turn ideological. This is a game: each government type has to have advantages & disadvantages.


+1



Solarius Scorch -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/15/2014 3:36:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AndrewKurtz

quote:

ORIGINAL:
I'd rather this mod didn't turn ideological. This is a game: each government type has to have advantages & disadvantages.


+1



I'd never thought this would require explanation. :P



gerishnakov -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/15/2014 4:17:22 PM)

Hey, I make no moral judgements. Fascism as an economic system is morally neither good nor bad. Economically sound on the other hand? That's a whole different kettle of fish.

Having allowed every race in my game to use it, I've now re-restricted it a bit. Basically, any time any two races got into a long war they would both switch to fascism, doing them both down in the end. Interesting, as it kind of reflects our history and reality, but does it make for a better game? Not really.



Tehlongone -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/15/2014 5:07:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rahal

I'd rather this mod didn't turn ideological. This is a game: each government type has to have advantages & disadvantages.

Corporate Nationalism is fascism by another name. i.e. the government is organized like a large corporation. You have a 'board' made up of business leaders + military + PR which answers to a leader whose job is to be seen to be decisive & aggressive.

This looks like nonsense in hindsight & historically fascism was a disaster (woefully inefficient & shambolic vs it's adversaries) but at the time many serious people - like the german business elite who put a dictator in power & onlookers including economists like Mises & Hayek - believed this would work.
So with this being a game we just run with it and pretend it does?

I'm not sure why anyone is even trying to make it ideological.

The problem is that Corporate Nationalism in the game is absolutely horrible. No really... It's irredeemably bad with no bright sides whatsoever. Even the things it says it's good at, it's not.

To me it's pretty clear that Corporate Nationalism is NOT fascism. That's already covered by Military Dictatorship... Moreover fascism has nothing to do with economic policy per se and not all fascist governments had the same policy.

If the point is that it's supposed to represent fascism and therefore must be absolutely horrible in all categories then that is an ideological statement by itself, and very pointless to have in a game.

From the description I see it as the sci-fi classic dystopian world ruled by one or a few corporations. It should have bad and good points, even if mostly not that great.



Stuffed -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/16/2014 8:33:24 PM)

Playing as the Caleph, non ship space structures are invisible. In the design screen you can see faint outlines of them, but in the list that scrolls all the images they are blank and once built there is no image at all. Copy pasting a working smallspaceport into the family31 folder(the Caleph designs) makes this new one show up fine, so I just can't get the the family31 buildings to work.

Is this just an issue for myself? Any ideas that would cause it?
I think family32's buildings also don't show up as well.



gerishnakov -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/17/2014 12:32:24 AM)

This happened to me recently. I started a random game, was the Caleph, and all their base images were missing. At the time I assumed I had improperly copied Haree's races into my personal mod, but now I'm not so sure.



pycco -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/17/2014 1:09:38 AM)

I do not have this here



thefinn12345 -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/17/2014 5:16:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tehlongone

quote:

ORIGINAL: gerishnakov
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tehlongone

I was thinking, after seeing [Haree78's] Authoritarian Eugenics government it occurred to me that it was possible to mod Corporate Nationalism.

It never really made much sense and only existed as a way to hamstring yourself or the AI. It literally had no saving grace whatsoever. It's represented as a dystopian government which is fine except maybe it should be at least marginally useful?

My suggestion: Rename to Megacorporation


quote:

ORIGINAL: Haree78

@Tehlongone
I like the idea of changing the Corporate Nationalism government somehow however I wont be doing that within this mod, I still want to keep the vanilla game as it is so that players can 'upgrade' to Extended and not feel they are playing a different game.


Corporate Nationalism = Fascism

I'm not sure why the devs didn't just call it that. Mabye there's some stigma attached to that word and people would feel weird using the government? I don't know. Either way it's a terrible government type. In my own mod I de-specialsed it making it available to everyone and now I've got an interesting situation in-game where two empires locked in war with each other have both adopted it! Art reflecting life methinks?

Ehh... I think it sounds more like Communism (soviet-style), or rather a non-existent government type definitely not fascism which were nowhere near this bad, nor worked by confiscating all private property. Fascism was often more effective than other dictatorships, not worse at least. Not from an economic perspective.


Yeah sounds like someone's drunk the American coolade.

Fascism = Fascism.
Fascism != Socialism.
Fascism != Communism.
Fascism != Corporate Nationalism.

Those government types CAN be fascist, but aren't necessarily.

One of our politicians a decade ago said "Everyone knows the best and most elegant form of government on the planet would be a benevolent dictator, which is fine as long as it's going to be me."

As you might imagine she didn't get elected ;)

How about an actual Fascism choice in government ?
Gain bonuses to annihilation and -ve to assimilation and have a huge -ve bonus to all other governments. Something like that anyhow ?

Awesome mod thanks a lot for the work. Makes things a lot more interesting.



Solarius Scorch -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/17/2014 5:24:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thefinn
One of our politicians a decade ago said "Everyone knows the best and most elegant form of government on the planet would be a benevolent dictator, which is fine as long as it's going to be me."

As you might imagine she didn't get elected ;)



Because she was wrong, since I would be a far better candidate! ;)

Seriously though, I believe it was Plato who formulated this idea, though he didn't outwardly put himself in this position. (Although knowing him, he secretly did.)

To add off-topic to off-topic, fascism doesn't seem stigmatized in gaming entertainment to me. In Civilization: Call to Power, it was easily the best government in every respect. ;)



gerishnakov -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/17/2014 6:17:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thefinn

Gain bonuses to annihilation and -ve to assimilation and have a huge -ve bonus to all other governments. Something like that anyhow ?



Except that was my original point. Fascism is not Nazism. You can quite easily be fascist and not believe in the systemic annihilation of 'inferior' races.



Tehlongone -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/17/2014 7:16:14 PM)

Dictatorship is definitely the best government if you can be absolutely certain that the leader is entirely unselfish and intelligent. Unfortunately these governments have a horrid track-record as very few humans qualify for those criteria and even fewer of those would realistically be picked for the leader.

Maybe a benevolent AI could, but I think most people would be uneasy about that. Testing whether it works might also be a tad risky. It works pretty well in "The Culture" sci-fi books... :)

Anyway in Distant Worlds I see no reason for a Fascist government it's covered by Military Dictatorship. Unless you'd want to vastly expand the amount of government types at least. Which would have to be a sub-mod to this one.



Osito -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/17/2014 7:24:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tehlongone

Dictatorship is definitely the best government if you can be absolutely certain that the leader is entirely unselfish and intelligent.


I was gonna say, 'I'd vote for that' ;-

... but, actually, no I wouldn't.



Tcby -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/19/2014 11:44:29 PM)

Looks like this'll need a small update to stay current with the latest patch. Specifically the reduction in size from 360 to 300 for the basic colonization module.



Haree78 -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/20/2014 1:00:02 AM)

Yep, I'll get on it, this update also allows me to add some racial techs I wanted to add before, so might do that also.
In the mean time if you are using the latest patch copying the 'races' and 'policy' folder in to the mod directory will give you some of the updates if you can't play without the mod.



SlyvanianFrog -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/21/2014 3:10:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Haree78

Yep, I'll get on it, this update also allows me to add some racial techs I wanted to add before, so might do that also.
In the mean time if you are using the latest patch copying the 'races' and 'policy' folder in to the mod directory will give you some of the updates if you can't play without the mod.



Any estimate as to when this may be coming? I actually have a rare free weekend, and am trying to plan some things out.

Not being pushy - I'm not the one doing the work here. [:D] Just trying to get an idea/estimate.



Shrapnel -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/21/2014 8:48:03 PM)

I'm in the same boat SlyvanianFrog, free weekend but can't play DW without this mod.



Bingeling -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/21/2014 9:21:24 PM)

You don't need an updated mod to play. And it is probably a better idea to run the .3 patch anyways, as there are some issues with the latest one.

Would it break your game if the colonization module is at the old size? It has been that way until now...



thefinn12345 -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/21/2014 10:48:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

You don't need an updated mod to play. And it is probably a better idea to run the .3 patch anyways, as there are some issues with the latest one.

Would it break your game if the colonization module is at the old size? It has been that way until now...


Battlebots are completely broken without the new patch.



thefinn12345 -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/21/2014 10:49:35 PM)

How come planet killers are removed?

OR is that just because of the particlar game I'm in ? (Sorry kinda new, and only noticed this after installing this mod ;)).



vmxa_slith -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/21/2014 11:53:21 PM)

I do not know for sure, but suspect that it requires story lines to be enable to get planet busters.



Nanaki -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/22/2014 1:20:35 AM)

It requires the original storyline enabled.



thefinn12345 -> RE: Distant Worlds Extended (6/22/2014 4:02:25 AM)

Ah! thanks guys. ;)



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