HQ overpowered (Full Version)

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Templer_12 -> HQ overpowered (7/28/2012 8:07:08 PM)

I often use HQs for attack and defense and thus achieved considerable success.

Is it just me, or even think other, HQs are simply too strong to in the game?



alex0809 -> RE: HQ overpowered (7/28/2012 8:13:34 PM)

Well, they are strangely useful if you overpower the enemy anyway and just need another side for the multiple sides attack bonus that's true[:D]
But if the HQ staff is killed the HQ will be less effective, so actual combat other than destroying small pockets imho not worth it.

If your question is whether the HQ is too strong in combat REGARDLESS of the side effect that your staff might be killed, I'd just say - the infantry of the HQ IS still regular infantry that can fight, so I don't see why it would be unreasonable ;)



Keunert -> RE: HQ overpowered (7/28/2012 8:32:35 PM)

i would never ever use them for this role. they are far to important to use it in such a way. only exception under certain circumstances: positioning them in a way that makes a retreat impossible and thus forcing an ennemy unit to surrender.

but what i slowly have to accept is the use of artillery, aa, and at units as defenders in the front row without further protection. like any other units, if you attack them without reducing readiness and entrenchment before they will handle you heavy losses.



elmo3 -> RE: HQ overpowered (7/28/2012 8:51:53 PM)

Yes, they feel overpowered based on my limited experience so far.



amatteucci -> RE: HQ overpowered (7/28/2012 9:04:56 PM)

Ditto. I attacked a single German Corps HQ (unsupplied) after heavy air attacks, with a couple divisions and wasn't able to force a surrender (or retreat, and it had no hex to retreat into) for two times. I had to use almost a third of the Coastal Army to elimitate it!
Also, artillery units seems too resilent when attacked by other ground troops.



Redmarkus5 -> RE: HQ overpowered (7/28/2012 10:32:02 PM)

But an HQ represents all the support units, training cadres, replacements etc. in the Korps. Real life HQs do fight when they have to and they can fight effectively.



elmo3 -> RE: HQ overpowered (7/28/2012 11:09:21 PM)

Maybe so but Corps and Army HQ's were never in the front lines on attack as they can be used now.



Scouseair68 -> RE: HQ overpowered (7/28/2012 11:57:49 PM)

Maybe make them unable to attack...only defend?



Templer_12 -> RE: HQ overpowered (7/29/2012 12:25:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

But an HQ represents all the support units, training cadres, replacements etc. in the Korps. Real life HQs do fight when they have to and they can fight effectively.

Yes, but you just look at the amount and composition of these troops.
Not exactly an elite group!



Jeffrey H. -> RE: HQ overpowered (7/29/2012 1:31:44 AM)

This is a problem that goes back at least all the way back to the original AT-WWII, they are far too powerful in combat. Strangely, the AI in AT and ATG realizes this ond often builds them in massive quantities and just squats in cities.




Templer_12 -> RE: HQ overpowered (7/29/2012 1:35:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

This is a problem that goes back at least all the way back to the original AT-WWII, they are far too powerful in combat. Strangely, the AI in AT and ATG realizes this ond often builds them in massive quantities and just squats in cities.

Thank you.
Maybe someone will solve this problem soon.



Blind Sniper -> RE: HQ overpowered (7/29/2012 10:14:49 AM)

In the meantime it is easily addressed with a SSR, no HQ in attack.



Keunert -> RE: HQ overpowered (7/29/2012 10:34:53 AM)

i wouldn't mind an opponent attacking with his HQ. if i manage to encircle one and destroy it he will be punished enough for taking this risk.



Blind Sniper -> RE: HQ overpowered (7/29/2012 11:21:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Keunert

i wouldn't mind an opponent attacking with his HQ. if i manage to encircle one and destroy it he will be punished enough for taking this risk.


Sure, but I'm speaking when your opponent use it to encircle and destroy your unit.

I remember that in the previous title (WtP) you could use the engineer as scout unit given that even if attacked they were able to stand most the time, I thrown against this eng unit three French Cavalry units (they were brigade IIRC) and not only I lost the combat but I suffered more losses [:o]



Vic -> RE: HQ overpowered (7/29/2012 11:52:55 AM)

@all,

I am going to make artillery,staff and flak a little bit more vulnerable in direct combat in probably patch 2.

best,
Vic



Blind Sniper -> RE: HQ overpowered (7/29/2012 11:55:57 AM)

Thanks Vic, great support [:)]



Templer_12 -> RE: HQ overpowered (7/29/2012 2:50:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

@all,

I am going to make artillery,staff and flak a little bit more vulnerable in direct combat in probably patch 2.

best,
Vic

Proposal:
How about weaken the staff on defense a bit but weaken the staff extremely on offence?
Sounds realistic to me.



ComradeP -> RE: HQ overpowered (7/29/2012 3:17:51 PM)

Why not remove most if not all of the infantry from HQ's? Another option would be giving them secondary infantry.



WilliePete -> RE: HQ overpowered (7/29/2012 10:09:19 PM)

just start off by doing what you proposed and see how they feel. Don't go crazy, I actually like them like they are now ;)



Ritterkrieg_slith -> RE: HQ overpowered (8/1/2012 8:25:33 PM)

+1 on the HQ/ART units too strong!

Realistically, there isn't much chance an HQ should be able to resist fleeing before a 3-stack tank attack but it happens now a lot!

Troy



olivier34 -> RE: HQ overpowered (8/1/2012 8:43:21 PM)

I have played a lot DC1 and now this game and I never thought to use my HQs in a "combat" offensive role [X(]. But I have often realise that HQs were quiet hard to destroy. I think that they should not be abble to attack. Maybe they could lose command points if they are near an ennemy unit and they should retreat easily when under attack.



Redmarkus5 -> RE: HQ overpowered (8/2/2012 6:14:32 AM)

Should be easy to create a new SFT called Rear Area Troops and give it a reasonable defense setting but zero attack points, then assign these to the HQ TOE...?



ComradeP -> RE: HQ overpowered (8/2/2012 1:51:35 PM)

I'm currently running a test where HQ's don't have infantry attached to them. It works well thus far.

One thing that shouldn't be overlooked is that experience is averaged, instead of being counted per element, so if a HQ attracts infantry replacements, its experience goes down and thus its command bonus, even though neither the staff nor commander were changed.



Blind Sniper -> RE: HQ overpowered (8/2/2012 1:56:15 PM)

Good to know, better stop any replacements requirement then.



Vic -> RE: HQ overpowered (8/2/2012 2:03:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
One thing that shouldn't be overlooked is that experience is averaged, instead of being counted per element, so if a HQ attracts infantry replacements, its experience goes down and thus its command bonus, even though neither the staff nor commander were changed.


Are you really sure? this is not intended behaviour.



ComradeP -> RE: HQ overpowered (8/2/2012 2:21:02 PM)

All HQ's that pulled replacements for themselves during my 1st Panzer Army campaign suffered a drop in experience levels and command bonus.

The system seems to see only 1 experience level for the entire unit, and substracts a couple of points from it when replacements are added just like with any other unit. You can lose part of the effect of a Personnel card again the next turn that way.

1st Panzer Army HQ in particular suffered significant drops in experience and thus in command bonus.



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