Strategy question. (Full Version)

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stormbringer3 -> Strategy question. (8/18/2012 5:08:15 PM)

I'm few turns into the campaign scenario. When you pocket enemy troops how many turns will it take for them to disappear due to lack of supplies, or, is there a point where it is better to assault them to get rid of the pocket?
Thanks for any opinions.



Grotius -> RE: Strategy question. (8/18/2012 5:42:52 PM)

I'm still trying to figure this out, too. I seem to have an easier time of it if I let them sit and rot in the pocket for one turn after the initial pocketing, but if their entrenchment and readiness are low, they'll go down fast even the first turn after pocketing. Sometimes, of course, there's no time to lose, and I just suck it up and liquidate the pocket ASAP.

But yes, I'm curious what the optimal strategy is. Also, is there anything other than readiness/entrenchment to give us a clue that the enemy is ready to fold like a paper tiger?



rominet -> RE: Strategy question. (8/18/2012 5:57:57 PM)

If possible, i usually wait 2 turns after pocketing.



Rosseau -> RE: Strategy question. (8/19/2012 2:57:51 AM)

What if the enemy units are surrounded in a "red" objective city. Will they last a lot longer?



bwheatley -> RE: Strategy question. (8/19/2012 6:11:37 AM)

It is all dependent on supply. If they are in a big city they might have longer term supply. But unlike WITE they won't auto surrender you will have to kill them.

2turns is a good sweet spot i've found to minimize casualties.



Grotius -> RE: Strategy question. (8/19/2012 7:20:40 AM)

I didn't realize a city could be an independent source of supply. I had the impression that all supply flowed from Stavka and OKH exclusively.

Anyway, sounds like a need to be a wee bit more patient liquidating my pockets. :)



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Strategy question. (8/19/2012 8:52:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

I didn't realize a city could be an independent source of supply. I had the impression that all supply flowed from Stavka and OKH exclusively.

Anyway, sounds like a need to be a wee bit more patient liquidating my pockets. :)


I would make sense if cities do serve as temporary supply sources once isolated - you'd expect stocks and local production to keep things going for days or even weeks...



sandman2575 -> RE: Strategy question. (8/19/2012 6:25:30 PM)

I'm not sure how much "Readiness" affects combat-worthiness for defending units (?) -- but I've found that when I pocket very large forces (like 200 stack-points-per-hex), I bomb and shell the hell out of them for 3+ turns. It can take several turns to wear down a pocketed opponent's entrenchment, particularly in urban / hilly terrain. But I find that once their Readiness is in the <15 area, they will crumble easily against a multi-front assault --



Rosseau -> RE: Strategy question. (8/20/2012 2:28:53 AM)

Thanks for advice. I will bypass with Totenkopf, hem them in with the infantry, and watch their readiness.



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Strategy question. (8/20/2012 3:49:08 PM)

Do you guys attack on Turn 1, or do you bombard and use airstrikes for a turn or two first?

Do you lead with infantry attacks and armour exploitation, or just throw everything in?

Do you attack all along the front from the start. or focus on selected areas?

My Case Blue efforts are not progressing too well vs. the Soviet AI (I have re-started about 3 times).



stormbringer3 -> RE: Strategy question. (8/20/2012 8:28:55 PM)

I'm still learning the game system but I go all out on turn 1. I feel that a delay will give the Soviet time to put up an even deeper line to fight through. Also, since you have a time delay to regain artillery supplies and leader command points, I feel that waiting to a later turn to "throw everything in" delays when you can use those features again.



Grotius -> RE: Strategy question. (8/21/2012 6:53:06 AM)

I attack on Turn 1. If I wait a turn after bombardment and airstrikes, that sometimes gives the enemy time to recover. I find it best to attack in the same turn I bombard.

Yes, I lead with infantry attacks. In fact, whenever possible, I attack with infantry. I treat my tanks as precious assets, because they are not so easily replaced. I use them to exploit and encircle.

I attack in weak spots all along the front, but not that many weak spots. I don't like attacking without arty support, and arty supply is limited. (I like the way the arty-supply rule indirectly forces one to prioritize and time one's offensive actions. I prefer a system like the OCS boardgame series, in which supply is on-map, but this computer game's arty rules are a decent approximation of that set of rules with much less complexity.)

In general, I try to avoid frontal assaults and to encircle the enemy, or at least to threaten encirclement. I try to cut roads and RRs. Until recently, I'd been liquidating pockets the turn after forming them, but now I'm waiting an extra turn.

I'm doing okay vs the "Normal" AI in the Case Blue scenario. It's August, and while I haven't taken Rostov, I've taken my initial objectives and asked for more time to get Rostov. My casualty ratio is better than 4:1 in my favor, which is roughly what I'm aiming for. I would think I'd be in big trouble if I were trading casualties one-for-one.

But I'm no expert, and I'll probably fail miserably in the end! Just trying to respond to your inquiry. :)



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Strategy question. (8/21/2012 9:10:14 AM)

Thanks Gents!



Keunert -> RE: Strategy question. (8/21/2012 10:07:53 AM)

a proper breakthrough has to be done by infantry. the Panzer's need all AP to exploit the gap and penetrate as deep as possible.
their duty is to pocket the ennemy or to threaten to do so. if you are able to create a pocket: great. but it can also be enough
to force the ennemy to pull back, losing entrenchment, ap and readiness.

if on attack i use artillery only to prepare attacks. their most important effect is to reduce readiness and entrenchment. but this lasts only for a turn. next turn the ennemy
has restored both. so bombing and shelling makes most sense if followed up by an attack.

Panzer's are gold: only attack with them if absolutely necessary or if chances are good to take no losses.: like attacking units that have already retreated.

i thinks it's a good advice for the germans to attack in few places and there with force. as few attacks as possible and as big pockets as possible. you have to play very oeconomical



marion61 -> RE: Strategy question. (8/21/2012 11:09:43 AM)

From what I've seen, if you can get a cut off units readiness down below 15 they will panic or break every time. If I can get the units readiness into that range on the same turn I will take them out that turn if possible. There are times that you have to try and take out a cut off unit that has a lot of readiness left because the unit is sitting in a hex that will kill your supply the following turn.

Keunert is right about breakthroughs. Your infantry should do the heavy work for the panzers (if they can keep up), but there are always exceptions. The first turn of Case Blue puts most of your armor in the weak areas of the Soviet line for you so that you can make the initial breakthroughs. When I do a breakthrough, I try to find a weak spot of 3+ hexes wide. This way when you get the breakthrough, your panzers do not lose ap from moving thru the enemy line. If I have the leader cards to play, I will play my attack cards on infantry, do arty attacks and airstrikes, and then push the infantry as far as possible to hold open the flanks of the breakthrough. Then I'll play my speed card on my mobile units to exploit.

Just my two cents.



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Strategy question. (8/21/2012 12:11:02 PM)

Cheers :)



jonny211 -> RE: Strategy question. (8/21/2012 1:29:06 PM)

Hi all,

I'm wondering what others do (as the Germans) with Voroshilovgrad and the town to the west of it. I've restarted once because it turned into a grind through the hills around the town, this time around the grind has come back although I have crossed the Donets to the north east and hope to eventually cut the town off. I have the feeling that Rostov can't be taken by early August without taking Voro' first but in both games the AI has built up a large force here between the town and south to Rostov, taking too many of my units to counter and time from other objectives.

Jon



Grotius -> RE: Strategy question. (8/21/2012 4:58:36 PM)

I've had the same challenge, jonny. Like you, I've just tried to outflank the enemy at Voro', and in general I try to avoid attacking in rough terrain if I can. It helps to pour in resources from the Crimea sooner rather than later -- I suppose I should've started moving units before the fall of Sevastopol, but fortunately it fell quickly for me anyway. I did take Voro' pretty quickly, but that didn't solve the problem of getting to Rostov; the AI defends the space between the two cities tenaciously. I'm only just now closing in on Rostov from the north and northeast, on August 11, having asked for more time three times. :)



jonny211 -> RE: Strategy question. (8/21/2012 5:31:50 PM)

I've used the 'more time' card once so far with the hope of panzers from the centre coming to help eventually, but I've only just discovered the cards. Looks like this one will become a favourite!



marion61 -> RE: Strategy question. (8/21/2012 6:15:22 PM)

Taking Rostov against the AI on time just takes some preparation. I take my barges and cargo ship to Kerch and load them with the German Korps there and then send them to Azov. The AI has a bad habit of not guarding it's ports. Once you land and cut the rail behind Rostov you'll see that wall dissolve and with a port within a few hexes you can land more troops the next turn from your port. I think that even if the AI guarded Azov that you could take it and cut off Rostov. With the new hit points for transports in 1.2 I'm not sure how many transports you'll lose in this endeavor. I know before 1.2 that the AI can't kill enough transports to stop the landing.

Taking Vorosh takes a little preparation also. North of the city the terrain is plains and the only real obstacle is the Donets. South of the city I go around the low mountains to cut the rail line south of Vorosh. Once you cut the rail east and south of Vorosh that wall will start to dissipate. I usually just keep a light guard of Italian units in front of Vorosh and take all my other units north and south of the city. I'm not sure why the AI cuts and runs when you cut the rail to a city since it is still in supply and has the road open. Once you cross the Donets you usually don't have enough AP to cut the rail and the road into Vorosh, but I think using a speed card may help, but I don't usually waste the card since just getting behind the city will make the AI pull back. This works for me, hope it helps.



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