RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (Full Version)

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janh -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/26/2013 9:41:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812
Glad to hear you are going north and planning to encircle forces north of you.
...
On a bad note its the start of August 43' now,when does the enforced panzer reorganization take place? September?


Yes, north is what I thought too. Else your left flank just grows and grows. Tambov, Voronesh and so on seem to be rather easy preys given that Brad's defense essentially disintegrated. But Moscow...the turning point?

The ToE upgrade... there is July 43 for the SS, and October for the Panzerdivisions. It all depends on your Panther A pools, as the most important change is probably the Panzer IIIm to Panther A conversion. It does make a huge difference though, except for the black guys, which gain real Panzer ToEs and combat power then. Nonetheless, it is highly questionable that such a ToE change would have been done in this situation. The enforced ToE changes keep striking me as a sort of bug-by-design. Game in maintainance or not, there should at least be a button to delay them for a few AP. Or one day hopefully a much smarter logic that analyses overall situation and pools.



terje439 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/26/2013 11:20:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

Glad to hear you are going north and planning to encircle forces north of you. Going further east,no matter how tempting is a mistake in my opinion. Tula and Tomboy are within reach Voronezh is ripe to fall as well. So where are we at regarding victory points now?

Once you are in Tula then Moscow comes on the radar horizon.

On a bad note its the start of August 43' now,when does the enforced panzer reorganization take place? September? Going to be a wild 4-10 turns coming up. Worst case scenario those fortified areas you have created may come in handy.


The panzers have been upgrading for some time allready, nothing I can do about that unfortunately.
To get enough VP, I need to take everything west of the Volga along its entire length, so I need to push furter east as well if I am going to win that way.


Terje



terje439 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/26/2013 11:22:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: janh

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812
Glad to hear you are going north and planning to encircle forces north of you.
...
On a bad note its the start of August 43' now,when does the enforced panzer reorganization take place? September?


Yes, north is what I thought too. Else your left flank just grows and grows. Tambov, Voronesh and so on seem to be rather easy preys given that Brad's defense essentially disintegrated. But Moscow...the turning point?

The ToE upgrade... there is July 43 for the SS, and October for the Panzerdivisions. It all depends on your Panther A pools, as the most important change is probably the Panzer IIIm to Panther A conversion. It does make a huge difference though, except for the black guys, which gain real Panzer ToEs and combat power then. Nonetheless, it is highly questionable that such a ToE change would have been done in this situation. The enforced ToE changes keep striking me as a sort of bug-by-design. Game in maintainance or not, there should at least be a button to delay them for a few AP. Or one day hopefully a much smarter logic that analyses overall situation and pools.


What pools?! The only AFVs I have more than enough of is StuGs and Tigers...The PzIV pool saw a high peak last turn (not been this high for ages, when it reached 4...


Terje



terje439 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/28/2013 10:31:38 AM)

Turn 112 aka the drawbacks of being far eastwards

Overall
As the title suggest, I found the main drawback by fighting this far east. Mud arrives earlier [:@]
Brad had reopened the pockets by walking, and even isolated some of my panzers. I had enough MP to reform the pockets, and all I can do now is hope that Brad is as stumped by the mud as I am. A lousy 4 attacks this turn, for a result of 2 retreats, 1 rout and 1 surrender. Not enough attacks, nor enough ground gained this turn.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
1.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
6.

Losses
USSR : 87.000 troops, 1.164 guns, 51 AFVs, 258 AC.
Axis : 20.000 troops, 78 guns, 52 AFVs, 47 AC.

USSR units lost
1 Rifle Corp.

German units disbanded
None.

Partisans hunted down
7.

German pools
Manpower : 195.827
Vehicles : 241.794
Armaments : 528.439
Hiwi : 42.206




[image]local://upfiles/11504/5BB73B50796E4DE9BEAB072393CDF959.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/28/2013 3:30:33 PM)

Are you using historical weather?

He still lost an infantry corps and you did re-establish the pockets so its not all bad news.



terje439 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/28/2013 3:59:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

Are you using historical weather?

He still lost an infantry corps and you did re-establish the pockets so its not all bad news.


Nope, Random. True, but 1 inf corps is not enough. For the first time in a long time, his OOB grew this turn.


Terje



randallw -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/29/2013 5:22:46 AM)

Having shortages in the tank pools is always something the Axis player goes through, whether 1941, 1942, etc., and whether winning or losing.



terje439 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/29/2013 11:55:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

Having shortages in the tank pools is always something the Axis player goes through, whether 1941, 1942, etc., and whether winning or losing.


True, but there is shortage and then there is SHORTAGE [:D]


Terje



terje439 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/29/2013 12:01:03 PM)

Turn 113

Overall
The mud is gone, and we attack in a style not really seen since 1941. Brad's defences are crumbling now, and I think I am close to breaking his back properly (in a style that will allow an Axis win). I think the attack numbers says it all;
82 (!!) attacks gave a result of 9 helds, 63 retreats, 5 routs and 5 surrenders. We also created quite a few pockets this turn, and we reached the outskirts of Tula.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
6.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
22.

Losses
USSR : 150.000 troops, 2.570 guns, 155 AFVs, 599 AC.
Axis : 30.000 troops, 323 guns, 89 AFVs, 115 AC.

USSR units lost
3 Rifle Divisions, 3 Rifle Brigades.

German units disbanded
1 Fortified Zone.

Partisans hunted down
12.

German pools
Manpower : 208.875
Vehicles : 241.438
Armaments : 550.432
Hiwi : 35.663




[image]local://upfiles/11504/79A0A84D22D84200AC0A9B88E51B18C1.jpg[/image]



terje439 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/29/2013 12:01:32 PM)

Closeup #1



[image]local://upfiles/11504/0FF988D57263489FA382AAD0866040EF.jpg[/image]



terje439 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/29/2013 12:01:55 PM)

Closeup #2



[image]local://upfiles/11504/B1E568F3F674431497C7C74430343C94.jpg[/image]



terje439 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/29/2013 12:02:14 PM)

Closeup #3



[image]local://upfiles/11504/6E9434D44E0E423CA48804CC8F5AF62E.jpg[/image]



terje439 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/29/2013 12:02:41 PM)

What we need/Lebensraum



[image]local://upfiles/11504/7FA30118AD3749B9B039022F0C17202E.jpg[/image]



juret -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/29/2013 4:30:27 PM)

love this aar. good work terje.

The tula area looks very nice for u. Just strike north west and gobble up hes front units. Close to orel orel railhead for massiv drops of fuels and supply trucks.

Also looks u can just move north direction with the 3rd pz army and strike at right flank of tula.


made a pic how i would make it. red cirkles are planned pockets.

straight blue lines are defence lines for winter 43. blue arrows are axis attacks.
http://www.bilddump.se/bilder/20130129162913-85.226.144.37.jpg




M60A3TTS -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/29/2013 4:41:22 PM)

I must say based on the AARs I've read, if there is an award for most improved player you would get my vote. Great job!



Tophat1815 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/29/2013 5:19:06 PM)

Do you see any corps from the reds other than what is down south in Rostov Stalingrad area?



veji1 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/29/2013 5:28:16 PM)

I think the back is already broken... Logistics alone will probably prevent you from reaching autovictory, but he is toast. were this the situation in 8/42, he could still get enough men and get himself organise for a weak albeit possible red offensive starting from the Volga line, but in 43 it is just too late. You killed him. He has being playing without clear direction, throwing his forces away piecemeal at the meatgrinder for the last 4 or 5 months until the point is reached where his army isn't a cohesive unit anymore.

You won.



Flaviusx -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/29/2013 5:45:33 PM)

Yeah, this is over pretty much.



hfarrish -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/29/2013 6:35:33 PM)


Yeah, if I had to guess at what he's thinking (or thought) it was likely a failure to acknowledge the reality that the German turnaround after a poor '41 was real and that merely holding onto manpower wouldn't accomplish anything - he needed to retreat like you would in your typical '42 and never did so, and this snowballed in '43 where (trying to put myself into his shoes) he probably assumed the German would naturally weaken due to withdrawls/TOE/morale changes and that he would naturally strengthen, and that never happened.



terje439 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/30/2013 8:55:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juret

love this aar. good work terje.

The tula area looks very nice for u. Just strike north west and gobble up hes front units. Close to orel orel railhead for massiv drops of fuels and supply trucks.

Also looks u can just move north direction with the 3rd pz army and strike at right flank of tula.

made a pic how i would make it. red cirkles are planned pockets.

straight blue lines are defence lines for winter 43. blue arrows are axis attacks.
http://www.bilddump.se/bilder/20130129162913-85.226.144.37.jpg




Thank you.
Hmm so you think I should switch to the defence in winter, and not press on?


Terje



terje439 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/30/2013 8:55:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

I must say based on the AARs I've read, if there is an award for most improved player you would get my vote. Great job!


Thank you [&o]


Terje



terje439 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/30/2013 8:56:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

Do you see any corps from the reds other than what is down south in Rostov Stalingrad area?


A few are still on the line in the north, but no more than aprox 5 or so.


Terje



terje439 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/30/2013 8:57:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

I think the back is already broken... Logistics alone will probably prevent you from reaching autovictory, but he is toast. were this the situation in 8/42, he could still get enough men and get himself organise for a weak albeit possible red offensive starting from the Volga line, but in 43 it is just too late. You killed him. He has being playing without clear direction, throwing his forces away piecemeal at the meatgrinder for the last 4 or 5 months until the point is reached where his army isn't a cohesive unit anymore.

You won.


Ah, so then his back is NOT broken [;)]
No autowin = atleast some virtebrae still intact [:D]


Terje



terje439 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/30/2013 8:57:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Yeah, this is over pretty much.



Never underestimate my ability to make a bonehead move [:)]


Terje



terje439 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/30/2013 9:09:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish


Yeah, if I had to guess at what he's thinking (or thought) it was likely a failure to acknowledge the reality that the German turnaround after a poor '41 was real and that merely holding onto manpower wouldn't accomplish anything - he needed to retreat like you would in your typical '42 and never did so, and this snowballed in '43 where (trying to put myself into his shoes) he probably assumed the German would naturally weaken due to withdrawls/TOE/morale changes and that he would naturally strengthen, and that never happened.



It seems to me with 20/20 hindsight that Brad trusted his defences a little too much, and that backfired as he did not manage to check my assault early enough. But on the other hand, something changed in this game, and that was my use of panzers (I would say atleast), and against my normal play, he probably wpuld have succeeded.


Terje



terje439 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/30/2013 9:09:23 AM)

Anyone else having difficulty posting today?


Terje



terje439 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/30/2013 10:43:46 AM)

Turn 114

Overall
Hmm, not sure what to say about this turn. Alot can be said, so I think I will start at the beginning. I used all my points reactivating infantry divisions facing Moscow, and also used some of the divisions in the rear line (that was not set to static) to attack the USSR line in two places, just to remind Brad that he has to keep watch on my infantry as well. Then I eliminated most of the units pocketed last turn, lashed out with my panzers, and made a few mistakes with my moves...
No do-overs here, as that is something I am no fan of, so I will live with my mistakes.
85 attacks resulted in 4 helds, 1 scouted, 59 retreats, 6 routs, 1 shatter, 14 surrenders.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
22.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
24, but 9 will "walk".

Losses
USSR : 245.000 troops, 4.054 guns, 327 AFVs, 794 AC.
Axis : 35.000 troops, 392 guns, 105 AFVs, 82 AC.

USSR units lost
1 Cavalry Corps, 15 Rifle Divisions,2 Cavalry Divisions, 2 Rifle Brigades.

German units disbanded
None.

Partisans hunted down
5.

German pools
Manpower : 220.729
Vehicles : 241.593
Armaments : 565.889
Hiwi : 34.434

Victory Points
210





[image]local://upfiles/11504/F8EE214FB86242CD8454597AEB5A89F7.jpg[/image]



juret -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/30/2013 10:52:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439


quote:

ORIGINAL: juret

love this aar. good work terje.

The tula area looks very nice for u. Just strike north west and gobble up hes front units. Close to orel orel railhead for massiv drops of fuels and supply trucks.

Also looks u can just move north direction with the 3rd pz army and strike at right flank of tula.

made a pic how i would make it. red cirkles are planned pockets.

straight blue lines are defence lines for winter 43. blue arrows are axis attacks.
http://www.bilddump.se/bilder/20130129162913-85.226.144.37.jpg




Thank you.
Hmm so you think I should switch to the defence in winter, and not press on?


Terje


u should press on as i made arrows in the pic. would be fantastic if u could kill that tula/orel north west pocket and same time shorten your lines.

U cant autowin as u posted in the updates, and this game will go to 45. Soviet doesnt have any mech corps or art divisions so will be very hard for him to attack an planned line u made for summer 44.

Continue make pockets but think whut rivers u wanna rest behind next year and to shorten your front. Then u check peltons thread how he used reserves to max effect and how to spread axis minors over whole front to maximum use of art support units in each battle. (6 to 12) :)



juret -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/30/2013 11:00:56 AM)

terje- i like u use up your APs now. last time u where german u had 500 alot of the turns :)



terje439 -> RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Oloren!! (1/31/2013 1:17:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juret
U cant autowin as u posted in the updates, and this game will go to 45. Soviet doesnt have any mech corps or art divisions so will be very hard for him to attack an planned line u made for summer 44.

Continue make pockets but think whut rivers u wanna rest behind next year and to shorten your front. Then u check peltons thread how he used reserves to max effect and how to spread axis minors over whole front to maximum use of art support units in each battle. (6 to 12) :)


It all depends now (I think) on how gutsy Brad plays it out. If he counterattacks and manages to breach my lines in the south, he will force me to halt my attacks, if he does not, I think I might still be able to attack throughout the winter. But I will keep an eye on his CV status as time progresses.


Terje



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