RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (Full Version)

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Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/20/2012 2:17:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Crackaces quote: Right now I would give my odds of winning the game as at best 60:40. If he lands on Hawaii and takes Pearl I'd say 20%. I might suggest that everytime you get discouraged .. take a look at Greyjoy vs. Radier AAR. Here Radier consumes India, & China ..to only have GreyJoy in 1944 land on Hokkaido ... AndyMac vs. PzB .. PzB takes PH .. no problem 1944 the tide turns .... BigRed vs. FatR same thing .. all scenario #2 ... The closest AV I have read about was PJH vs. CanoeRebel, and PJH made a huge execution mistake that you pointed out very early .... anyway the game stopped .. In my opiniion, The big problem with AutoVictory for the IJ/Allies is the Denominator problem. IJ points/Allied Points > 4 by Jan 1943. Every increase of 1 Allied point increases the requirement of the IJ by 4 points. Of course the opposite is true. Every allied point lost reduces the requirement by 4 points. Very careful management of this problem [or simple luck [;)] ] gets the Allied side past this point. Like typically teh IJ lose 2:1 or 3:1 aircraft over the Allies .. do the math ...[;)] There are some point dense areas to exploit and it will be interesting to see how your opponent manages their strategy. Good points. I only joined the GJ/Rader match as India was under pressure. I never read the Chinese phase. And I haven't looked at Andy's game. If he lost Hawaii I think I will! I asked for/insisted on auto-vic as a key component in this game, and to me it's critical to balancing the design. Due to that I have tried, in addition to not wanting to fight a ballet in China anyway, to keep him focused there since it's the one place besides the PI where I get a VP advantage. Every Japanese soldier I kill there gives me breathing room with Indian, Aussie, and British soldiers' lives. I'm also trying to "give" him China as fast as I can so he has to garrison. I'm hoping the steamroller will slow due to that in the next six months. I made a mistake abandoning the northern river valley as some of those bases he never would have cared to take, and leaving them is costing me 3-4 VPs a day because of garrison rules. Live and learn. My hope is that having most of the Chinese army available in Burma and/or India will be a mind-scrambler he will struggle with for at least 18 months, and largely overcome the advanatge of no-PPs to move Japanese units into China. If I can relieve Indian garrisons with Chinese peasants I can free up some decent armor and infantry sooner and get it to Burma. But right now that is a distant dream, as are Seabee units in India . . .

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/20/2012 8:16:32 PM)
January 3, 1942 "He Ain't Heavy, He's My Cruiser" Something funny happened this turn, hence the title. One of my Dutch subs got depth charged by a CA. I knew it was theoretically possible, but had never seen it. 1) ASW attack near Cam Ranh Bay at 62,75 Japanese Ships TB Kasasagi CA Atago CA Takao DD Mikazuki CA Chokai Allied Ships SS KXV SS KXV launches 4 torpedoes at TB Kasasagi (Why?!!! It's a rowboat!!!!) KXV diving deep .... CA Chokai attacking submerged sub .... CA Chokai fails to find sub, continues to search... CA Chokai fails to find sub, continues to search... CA Chokai fails to find sub, continues to search... CA Chokai fails to find sub, continues to search... Escort abandons search for sub 2) Lose another ASW bet near Pearl as DD Bagley takes a torp and sinks. Have a few early DD upgrades to do. Think I will pull the ASW in again and do some work. Unless there's a convoy headed in maybe I'll let him burn fuel for a few turns. 3) The expected extra help for Palmyra arrives, a DD and three large xAKs. No sign of a carrier; more on that in a minute. The new TF unloads in each phase. CD gets in six good hits, some penetrating, leaving one xAK burning and with severe engine damage. DD Crosby is nearby to the east; I may chance a raid on the beach. The new unit (plus I assume a lot of supply) is the Maizuru 2nd SNLF. The attack still does not take Palmyra. Color me surprised. At the end of the turn Forts on Palmyra go back to 1. Ground combat at Palmyra (170,133) Japanese Shock attack Attacking force 2297 troops, 30 guns, 2 vehicles, Assault Value = 61 Defending force 641 troops, 12 guns, 6 vehicles, Assault Value = 7 Japanese adjusted assault: 15 Allied adjusted defense: 7 Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 1) Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0 Combat modifiers Defender: morale(-), experience(-) Attacker: shock(+) Japanese ground losses: 74 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Allied ground losses: 25 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled Assaulting units: Maizuru 2nd SNLF 53rd Naval Guard Unit Defending units: Palmyra USN CPNAB Palmyra (Det.) Defense Battalion 4) How Now, Brown Carrier? During the turn prep I re-looked at the locaiton of USS Perch, twice found by carrier ASW previously. She was farther north than I thought. This, combined with a 3-ship TF seen leaving Truk, combined with new sub activity west of Puget Sound and near Seward and Kodiak makes me think more firmly that an attack on Midway is in motion. This will blind me to the next war phase, which I believe will echo Canoerebel's troubles in NorPac. I know Mike has read that AAR. It's a perfect VP factory if done correctly, and he now has the lessons of PH. This turn I do what I can about it. Already underway are a small regiment ashore at Seward, and the 87th Mountain on a coastal route to Dutch. Aboard the Queen Elizabeth (Yeah, I did it, sucka!! [:)]) in a single-ship amphib task force is the 47th Construction Reg. one "QE day" out of Dutch. (IOW, half-way to Seattle.) Forts there are a bit over 2, but the AF is at 0 + 2% after a month of hammering. There is also the starting base force and a port services unit for unloading. I'll feel a lot better when the 87th Mountian arrives. Kodiak has 135 AV in four units including an infantry reg. and engineers, plus AA and base force. Cats based there, but supply is only about 950. Midway just has laundry hanging out everywhere. Got about 3500 supply and 1000 fuel in, and the fuel is still unloading. I've sucked some of the supply down to send to Wake. It has Forts 2, Port also building. There are a total of six DDs there in two TFs. Patrol assets and two Bolos on ASW. The Marine defense uit and an air force base force are the whole defense. I have another base force coming from SF. A heavily damaged xAK is at the pier, but needs to sail home this turn regardless of risk. I have no planes which can reach there on their own, and I don't want to risk Hawaii's meager stock on the water. This turn I also converted an 8-pane Bolo unit at Pearl to D-Forts. They can reach Johnson, barely. I haven't seen the KB or any BB in weeks, so if Midway is a target, especially if the effort came from Truk, I expect it will be creamed. I sent all the subs with any hope of getting there up there. A damaged USS Cachalot has four pool-emptying mines on board and left Pearl this turn. It's all I can do. 5) Miscellaneous air battles lots of places. Palembang swept, three more Dutch Demons fall. The bombers come next, and hit the AF with these results: Japanese aircraft losses G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak Allied aircraft losses Do-24K-1: 2 damaged Do-24K-1: 1 destroyed on ground 139WH-3: 3 damaged At Sian the last Chinese biplane fighter in the region is destroyed. Some supply damage is done. At Bataan all the remaining PTs, three models in one combo pack TF, are strafed at 100 ft. by many Oscars. Some machine gun damage only. Bataan has little fuel and no torpedo reload capacity, so they're a one-shot weapon unless I can sneak them back into Manila. Manila has no naval support anymore, but I think could arm a PT. Changsha and Chengchow and Tuyun get supply bombiing runs. 6) Chinese bombers hit the 8th Tank at Pegu again. No damage. It does not have a direction dot, so I may escape Rangoon after all. The few Hudsons at Sian hit the 5th Tank Reg. trying to get across the river south of Sian. Perhaps it will slow it down if in Move mode. 7) Manila bombing. Two other similar attacks today. Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 22 G3M2 Nell x 4 G4M1 Betty x 50 Japanese aircraft losses G3M2 Nell: 1 damaged G4M1 Betty: 2 damaged Airbase hits 24 Airbase supply hits 14 Runway hits 75 Manila is not providing a lot of supply, about 100/day now. I ordered one Filipino infantry unit to head for Clark. Japan has a fork prepared in Luzon. I have recon on Cabanatuan showing five LCUs. They've been there at least a week. There are four at San Fernando for longer, which is why I've been expecting a move on Lingayan by now. There are two weak units defending this base, with no supply. It's still well-mined. If he takes Manila first he can secure the LI supply, deny it to me, and start fixing the AF. If he goes to Clark first he cuts Manila off but leaves the Manila units to move out and cause trouble down the track toward Legsapi where his takings have mostly been Rowboat Corps. I expect on odds he will do Manila first, which is why I'm slowly sneaking out. The Cavite base force just unpacked at Clark, which should accelerate the fort building, but most of the supply is stockpiled at Bataan. 8) Singapore bombing. This one doesn't go so well for Japan: Afternoon Air attack on Singapore , at 50,84 Weather in hex: Partial cloud Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 10 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-21-IIa Sally x 18 Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 28 Allied aircraft Buffalo I x 14 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-21-IIa Sally: 3 destroyed, 7 damaged Ki-21-IIa Sally: 1 destroyed by flak Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 1 destroyed Allied aircraft losses Buffalo I: 1 destroyed Airbase hits 1 Runway hits 2 9) Intel combined with search sightings show a lot of activity in NW Borneo, TFs at sea as well as in port Sambas, and more coming (Cam Rahn Bay got two separate heavy radio traffic hits in intel, plus the above CA ASW TF on the shallow water line just south of CRB.) I decide to shake things up and try a Cat torpedo strike from Singers. Four fly, right over at sea fat and juicy TFs, and hit Sambas with its four CVLs-worth of CAP. I don't know if all this activity is to support a Mersing landing, or if it's for Palembang. Or Singkawang, the loss of which will greatly complicate my life. Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Sambas at 57,88 Weather in hex: Light rain Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 10 minutes Japanese aircraft A5M4 Claude x 10 A6M2 Zero x 7 Allied aircraft PBY-4 Catalina x 4 No Japanese losses Allied aircraft losses PBY-4 Catalina: 1 destroyed Subsequently, Hudsons from Palembang also test Sambas, hit nothing, and the Batavia B-17s do a naval strike at 3000 feet (half get lost on the way in rain), also with no results. But I wanted to show the Forts in their design role at least once. 10) Jesselton is taken after a short battle. Both Allied base faorces rereat into the jungle with medium losses. Allied ground losses: 183 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Non Combat: 8 destroyed, 5 disabled Engineers: 4 destroyed, 0 disabled Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled) Units retreated 2 Defeated Allied Units Retreating! Assaulting units: Yokosuka 4th SNLF Defending units: 107th RN Base Force 108th RN Base Force 11) The gas station at Cocos I. goes into operation with Force Z getting a partial tank. Several xAKLs did make it out of the Oosthaven channel and are on the way. I have sent an AVP there as well, but have no patrol assets at the moment to spare. 12) Several real time days ago Mike asked in the forum how to get subs to load mines. I haven't seen any, but they could be on the way to Midway, Kodiak, or other. 13) During the air search turn phase the ship sinking sound effect played unexpectedly. I found nothing of mine in any of the text reports. Perhpas the xAK at Palmyra?

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/22/2012 12:07:04 AM)
January 4, 1942 "Enemy Mine" A pretty decent flick if you can get past Lou Gossett as a lizard. But true today in the Pacific as well. Going to be a short one today. Things in Frostbite Falls are heating up for Turkey Day, and my esteemed opponent got me another turn on a very complex day at his abode as well. Things went a little nutso today in that early-war, mini-mini way. Later on you get the clash of fleets, hundreds of planes, battles with a quarter-million troops. In the first week of January '42 it's jabbing and sparring, ducking and bobbing. More elegant in some ways. But the dominoes continue to fall before the Japanese onslaught, and a new strategic truth begins to emerge from the fog near Hawaii. 1) A lot of action near Palmyra. The DD escorting the relief landing force did detach to operate independently as the xAKs unload. Mike continues to show very precise management of his ships. USS Crosby, the lone raider in the area, tries to get at the merchants, but both at night and the next day tangles with DD Nenohi. In the first there are no hits, despite multiple torpedo runs by the Japanese. In the later encounter they spar and separate, but the Japanese get one last, lucky 19,000yd hit on Crosby, leaving her on fire and heavily damaged. Almost ten nautical miles--good random numberizing! The landing ships are brutalized by shore fire, leaving one heavy xAK on fire and sinking. But the troops continue to land. USS Tuna, in the biggest show of futility in the submarine war to date, launches two during the night at xAK Kamogawa Maru and misses. Then she shifts targets to xAK Nitiran Maru and fires EIGHT salvoes at the enemy, missing or dudding each time. She then mans the deck gun, taking one heavy shell for a penetrating hit, but leaving her prey on fire. After this the sinking ship sound is heard, but it is unclear if it was this target. Submarine attack near Palmyra at 170,133 Japanese Ships xAK Nitiran Maru, Shell hits 4, on fire Allied Ships SS Tuna, hits 1 xAK Nitiran Maru is sighted by SS Tuna SS Tuna attacking xAK Nitiran Maru on the surface SS Tuna low on gun ammo, DeTar, J.L. breaks off surface engagement and submerges After several more CD duels, the final battle comes time. The valiant defenders of Palmyra are destroyed. Ground combat at Palmyra (170,133) Japanese Shock attack Attacking force 2265 troops, 30 guns, 2 vehicles, Assault Value = 58 Defending force 632 troops, 12 guns, 6 vehicles, Assault Value = 8 Japanese adjusted assault: 44 Allied adjusted defense: 8 Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1 (fort level 1) Japanese forces CAPTURE Palmyra !!! Combat modifiers Defender: fatigue(-), morale(-), experience(-) Attacker: shock(+) Japanese ground losses: 157 casualties reported Squads: 2 destroyed, 15 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 4 (1 destroyed, 3 disabled) Allied ground losses: 783 casualties reported Squads: 10 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 60 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 16 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 13 (13 destroyed, 0 disabled) Vehicles lost 6 (6 destroyed, 0 disabled) Units destroyed 2 Assaulting units: Maizuru 2nd SNLF 53rd Naval Guard Unit Defending units: Palmyra USN CPNAB Palmyra (Det.) Defense Battalion 2) Better news though. Mersing, intel coming true, greets a landing force escorted by a small surface TF. They are rudely recieved: TF 115 encounters mine field at Mersing (51,82) Japanese Ships DD Katsutade, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage DD Kyukaze, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage After this the sunk ship sound effect is heard. The follow-on TF consists of a DD and one xAP, sighted by a Dutch sub but not attacked. 3) The sub lurking around the Big Island once again penetrates mined waters to get at an unloading tanker force. It does not go well: ASW attack near Hilo at 183,111 Japanese Ships SS I-173, hits 5 Allied Ships DM Ramsay AO Neosho TK Gulfhawk DD Dale DM Tracy 4) The mongrel PT force at Bataan sorties north on another fishing expedition and meets the same 2CL/2DD force as before. Two more are lost without a torpedo being launched. Use of these assets right now, with no search assets, is a dice roll. My only assumption is he is bringing in forces at Aparri, out of my range. 5) Palembang continues to be attritted by sweeps and airfield bombing. A Blenheim and a Demon are destroyed on the ground. The first Hurricane unit is two days from Oosthaven and will transfer to Palembang. 6) Thirty Sallys hit Singers with very light damage. Six attackers are damaged, one destroyed. 7) The under-trained and equipped Chinese bombers in Burma finally draw blood on the tanks sitting at Pegu. Every tank I can damage this far forward, with no HQ support and little supply, is worth three elsewhere: Morning Air attack on 14th Tank Regiment, at 55,53 (Pegu) Weather in hex: Overcast Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 6 minutes Allied aircraft SB-III x 11 Japanese ground losses: Vehicles lost 8 (1 destroyed, 7 disabled) No Allied losses 8) The combined bomber forces at Balikpapan shift gears and achieve very good results: Morning Air attack on Tarakan , at 67,91 Weather in hex: Light rain Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 11 minutes Allied aircraft Blenheim I x 7 Blenheim IF x 4 139WH-3 x 7 No Allied losses Japanese Ships DD Yukikaze, Bomb hits 2 DD Tokitsukaze, Bomb hits 1 xAP Hakone Maru, Bomb hits 1 Oil hits 5 Port hits 2 Aircraft Attacking: 11 x SB-III bombing from 5000 feet * Ground Attack: 3 x 100 kg GP Bomb 9) Several, up to five (unclear), TFs are at sea off NW Borneo. Some are light carriers, some still carrying Claudes. At least some CAs are present, but I have no evaluation as to these forces' purpose. They could be support for Mersing landings. Or they could be waiting for landing TFs to finish off NW Borneo. Or, more unlikely, they could be for Palembang and/or Oosthaven. Multiple air attacks from three bases fly, but no hits are recorded. The Forts from Batavia come closest with 12 planes, but hit nothing and are not challenged by the CAP. 10) In Malaysia, the sad tale of the retreat reaches the last act as the two strat loading refugees from Temuoh are shock attacked by a sprinting recon unit. The Indian infantry needed to round out the recombine at Singers surrenders. I feel this whole evolution was badly misplayed by me, beginning the first day and the retreat routes chosen. Ground combat at Kuala Lumpur (49,79) Japanese Deliberate attack Attacking force 1175 troops, 2 guns, 69 vehicles, Assault Value = 55 Defending force 945 troops, 7 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 13 Japanese adjusted assault: 25 Allied adjusted defense: 7 Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 0) Japanese forces CAPTURE Kuala Lumpur !!! Combat modifiers Defender: terrain(+), op mode(-), preparation(-), morale(-) experience(-), supply(-) Attacker: leaders(-) Allied ground losses: 903 casualties reported Squads: 71 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 84 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 5 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 8 (8 destroyed, 0 disabled) Units retreated 1 Units destroyed 1 Defeated Allied Units Retreating! Assaulting units: 5th Recon Regiment Defending units: FMSV Brigade 8th Indian Brigade 11) In China, he does what I expected, now that I'm sure from his bombing patterns he knows I'm doing a gross reteat strategy. He goes for an interim railroad segment, cutitng the sausage link 2/3 of the way home. I had already redirected strat loading LCUs up the track to target Kweilin instead, and then Move north to the next way-station. Ground combat at Liuchow (74,55) Japanese Shock attack Attacking force 7437 troops, 72 guns, 11 vehicles, Assault Value = 258 Defending force 9704 troops, 86 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 377 Japanese adjusted assault: 320 Allied adjusted defense: 38 Japanese assault odds: 8 to 1 (fort level 1) Japanese forces CAPTURE Liuchow !!! Combat modifiers Defender: op mode(-), preparation(-), morale(-), experience(-) Attacker: shock(+) Japanese ground losses: 182 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 19 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled Allied ground losses: 4079 casualties reported Squads: 127 destroyed, 38 disabled Non Combat: 109 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 30 destroyed, 1 disabled Guns lost 19 (10 destroyed, 9 disabled) Units retreated 2 Defeated Allied Units Retreating! Assaulting units: 21st Ind.Mixed Brigade 4th Ind.Mixed Regiment Defending units: 62nd Chinese Corps 2nd Prov Chinese Corps 12) Air recon of Johnson Island shows this turn for the first time the presence of three submarines in port, as well as at least two xAKs. I suspect one may be an AS. Or he perhaps is only using Johnson as a fuel depot for now. But the B-17s swapped in last turn will shortly pay a visit, once they are reassembled from the shipping crates. Finally, as I open the next turn and peek in, I am greeted by this sight near Hawaii, and the flow begins to become more clear: [image]local://upfiles/31387/E46AD35F352A47C4B3B508613D9DF389.jpg[/image] The TF behind the KB is read as two xAPs. I'm sure there are more. My best guess of a target is Kona. It is mined but undefended. I have just unloaded a heavy convoy at Hilo, with a tank unit, another medium infantry unit, a second base force, and a good CD unit. Inbound about three days out are 2nd Marine Defense Battalion. On the Big Island I have a Wildcat squadron, Havocs, and some Cats. I could get the tanks to Kona in time I think, but not sure I should. I have taken everything that can fight at Pearl out of repair status, and my fighters there are not what they were on 12/7. I also have about twenty subs I can flood the zone with within five days. But again, I have no good idea what is in the what's-coming. Stay tuned, same Bat channel. Enjoy your bird, North Americanos. [:'(]

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/23/2012 7:22:47 PM)
January 5, 1942 Three-Way Play Near Hawaii, it's December 7th all over again: [image]local://upfiles/31387/734F4223EF004B8E84C9B299A4089B04.jpg[/image]

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/23/2012 7:53:35 PM)
January 5, 1942 Continued Three-Way Play A VERY active turn for our game. Action on multiple fronts in multiple environments. Top-line, three major operations are unfolding simultaneously in three different areas: Hawaii, Malaysia, and Palembang. I do not know if if this is intended to overwhelm the Allies' leaderhsip, is a reaction to the calendar, or something else. But the op tempo has just spiked. 1) Hawaii. As the screenshot in the previous post indicates, the KB continues to come on at battlestations. Air strikes are launched at Pearl, although my strategic assessment is the next landing target is Kona. Pearl is also at battlestations, CAP at 70 across the board, stacked 5000ft to 25k, everything with an AA gun in a TF, undocked and ready. HMS Warspite, just arrived from Seattle yesterday, is there undamaged and ready with escorts. On the outer islands things are more mixed. At Hilo unloading of the fuel TF continues. ASW TFs are there as well, as Japanese subs again risk the mined harbor and penetrate for no hits. CAP on Lahaina is as ready as possible. Kona has twin subs and mines, but no ground forces. BB Oklahoma is flushed from Pearl with three DDs. A risk, but she is moderately damaged and there is no room at the inn for her if the KB is about. I will pull the escorts in two days and send them back. (BB Arizona is at the map edge for the Canal Zone, traveling alone.) The air strike on Pearl is moderate, but the CAP is ready. Planes continuosly arrive through the encounter, and eventually burn through the Zeros, downing about 8 Vals and Kates, many on the egress. The best news: no hits on the many ships targeted. Morning Air attack on TF, near Pearl Harbor at 180,107 Weather in hex: Overcast Raid detected at 110 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 47 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 48 B5N1 Kate x 17 D3A1 Val x 16 Allied aircraft P-36A Mohawk x 8 P-40B Warhawk x 15 P-40E Warhawk x 19 F4F-3A Wildcat x 2 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed B5N1 Kate: 3 destroyed, 6 damaged D3A1 Val: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged Allied aircraft losses P-36A Mohawk: 1 destroyed P-40B Warhawk: 1 destroyed P-40E Warhawk: 3 destroyed F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed Allied Ships CL St. Louis CA San Francisco DD Schley BB Warspite DD Craven CL Raleigh DD Selfridge TK H. M. Storey The daily intel also contains this entry: "7/38th Division is loaded on AK Sado Maru moving to Pearl Harbor." I don't know if this xAK is in this formation, but I think the prep is deception. A landing on Oahu now would be very problematic for the Japanese. The entire US Navy, less the carriers and about seven escorts, is at Hawaii. There are over twenty submarines within twenty hexes. The harbor has 335 mines. Forts are at 3.5. There are two Army divisions and many, many support units. All infantry COs have been upgraded. Nimitz has PacFlt. As above my best guess is Kona. He will get ashore. I hope to attrit the landing with surface raids from Pearl, risking the KB which will be the central submarine target. He has no effective LBA. Johnson is not large enough so far as I know, and Palmyra is too far. I have seen two BBs, but I don't think there is reloading capability closer than Kwajalein, even if there is an AKE at Johnson, which daily recon has not IDed. (This turn the three subs and two "xAK" there have disappeared.) Even so, if division+ LCUs come ashore at Kona the Big Island will be a fight. And I will engage in it if necessary. A large AF close to Pearl is the beginning of the end of Hawaii in 1942. It's possible Lahaina is also the (or a, in simultaneous landings) target, but it's another day's sail, and the AF is very small as yet. It's also much harder for Japan to supply given the geography of small islands, channels, and proximity of Pearl. But I don't discount it could be on the list. I also have not forgoten about Midway, but for now it's on its own. The next 2-3 days will be interesting. 2) Malaysia/Mersing. A debacle for Japan, and the source of the e-mail comments I recieved with the movie. The op begins in a normal manner. Two infantry regiments begin to land at vacant Mersing. There has been no bombardment or air prep, so I'm sure he knows it is empty. Amphibious Assault at Mersing (51,82) TF 115 troops unloading over beach at Mersing, 51,82 Japanese ground losses: 115 casualties reported Squads: 3 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled 20 troops of a IJA HMG Squad lost overboard during unload of 16th Infantry Rgt 20 troops of a IJA HMG Squad accidentally lost during unload of 24th Infantry Rgt /1 19 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad accidentally lost during unload of 24th Infantry Rgt /3 10 Support troops lost from landing craft during unload of 24th Infantry Rgt /3 19 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad lost overboard during unload of 16th Infantry Rgt /3 10 Support troops accidentally lost during unload of 16th Infantry Rgt /4 10 Support troops lost from landing craft during unload of 24th Infantry Rgt /4 Last turn the combo of the two IJN DDs hitting mines as well as intel indicated that Mersing's time was up. At Singers the two CLs torpedoed ten days ago are still in the yards, leaving only five RN DDs as offense. Not knowing today was the landing I had sent them to Mersing on the off chance, risking Netties from Saigon, etc. They catch the landing in the night phase and the carnage is extreme. One DD in the landing force is already bleeding from the mine strike as the turn commences. Night Time Surface Combat, near Mersing at 51,82, Range 10,000 Yards Japanese Ships DD Akikaze, Shell hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage xAP Dairen Maru, Shell hits 27, and is sunk xAP Hoten Maru, Shell hits 21, heavy fires, heavy damage xAP Tsingtao Maru, Shell hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage xAP Taizan Maru, Shell hits 22, heavy fires, heavy damage xAP Keihuku Maru, Shell hits 27, and is sunk xAP Ussuri Maru, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1 xAP Shanghai Maru, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk xAP Ukishima Maru, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk DD Katsutade, Shell hits 9, and is sunk Allied Ships DD Vendetta DD Stronghold DD Encounter DD Isis, Shell hits 1 DD Jupiter, Shell hits 3, on fire Improved night sighting under 89% moonlight Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 89% moonlight: 11,000 yards Range closes to 10,000 yards... CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 10,000 yards Japanese ships attempt to get underway CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 10,000 yards [image]local://upfiles/31387/B38C5971950F43F69871D40379D22391.jpg[/image] The next turn shows about 9500 men ashore at Mersing, but no TF. Minimal supplies should have been landed in the single night phase achieved. All of the severely damaged Japanese ships (x4) should sink unless excellent die rolls are recieved. The sunk ship sound effect is heard at least twice as the night phase ends. Of greater importance than the transports is the loss of IJN DDs. They are the workhorses of the mid-war period for Japan, and every one bagged makes the Allies happy. Mark Mersing down as the best Allied operation to date. The RN DDs' weapons are only average, but their rate of fire is immense compared to the Japanese. My opponent's e-mail comments indicated be was shocked by how bad Japanese night gunnery was on this turn. I'd rather say the British was just better. Two of the DDs will need yard time at Singers. 3) Palembang. This one is a head-scratcher since I don't even know if it is Palembang. Multiple facets here. An initial probe by a light surface TF: Night Time Surface Combat, near Palembang at 49,90, Range 10,000 Yards Japanese Ships DD Arashi DD Hagikaze DD Nokaze DD Namikaze Allied Ships DD Parrott DD Stewart DD Banckert DD Witte de With Here again, these four DDs represent almost all of the offensive power at Palembang. CLs are under repair, but will need yard time to finsih, which may never happen. Then a second probe, heavier assets: Night Time Surface Combat, near Palembang at 49,90, Range 11,000 Yards Japanese Ships CA Nachi CL Kinu DD Amatsukaze, Shell hits 1, on fire DD Yakaze Allied Ships DD Parrott DD Stewart, Shell hits 1, on fire DD Banckert DD Witte de With This one could be a sweep for oncoming landing forces, or it could be looking for single-ship refugees, or something else. During the day air activity near Palembang steps up. An AF strike takes a Dutch patrol plane for two damaged Nells. Blenheims from P. hit Sambas, looking for TFs, but are met by Zeroes and roughed up. More Zeroes sweep P. in thunderstorms. In the afternoon Dutch bombers from P. attack the multiple light carriers hanging around in the shallow water east of the river mouth. Instead they find a lone APD CAPed by Claudes from the carriers. They miss, but the presence of an APD is troubling. It's possible this ship will land a fragment at Palembang to freeze supply production, but more importantly do a recon-by-attack. I have almost gotten the last of the British infantry units there from Oosthaven, but the defenses are not very robust. Singkawang is still Allied, but it's possible he will leave it for later and come at Palembang before too much more time passes. In the afternoon the busy day concludes with the mini-Carriers attacking land targets: Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Palembang at 48,91 Weather in hex: Overcast Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 6 minutes Japanese aircraft A5M4 Claude x 6 A6M2 Zero x 4 B5N1 Kate x 22 B5N2 Kate x 5 D3A1 Val x 3 Allied aircraft CW-21B Demon x 1 No Japanese losses No Allied losses Allied Ships DD Banckert, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage DD Van Nes AMc MMS C, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk DD Banckert sinks. Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Oosthaven at 48,96 Weather in hex: Moderate rain Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 5 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 6 B5N2 Kate x 8 No Japanese losses Allied Ships AMc Djampea, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk AMc Endeh, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk Aircraft Attacking: 8 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo Overall Palembang is a moderate Japanese win, but the real objective is still unclear. Force Z is at Cocos fully fueled and armed, but the time is not yet ripe to bring it onto the field. 4) Other operations: A) Rangoon sweeps, followed by heavy strikes on strat loading Rangoon troops. About half are away, arriving at Prome. The others should leave by tomorrow. B) Heavy supply bombing at Sian, Changsha, Chengchow, Tuyun. The latter is the rail terminus and has been heavily used. I feel certain now he knows I am abandoning China. C) Allies bomb the tank regiments at Pegu and crossing the river near Sian with poor results. D) At Johnson Island three B-17s attack the port, but find it emply. Zero CAP of eight destroy one, damage one. More attacks will await more Forts coming on-line. They may be needed closer to home as well. But the strike demonstrated that Johnson is not a safe haven. E) Four Oil points damaged at Tarakan. The parallel port attack finds the previous day's ships gone. F) Three more Chinese divisions reach Lashio. Only one more is needed to reform the Chinese 5th Corps, an "American armed" heavy corps about as good as the best Indian army unit when it's filled out.

BBfanboy -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/23/2012 11:01:28 PM)
Wow- you are both doing imaginative "unconventional" things and the results are very interesting! Congrats on your defence of PH and Mersing! The strike at PH was quite small - like one carrier's worth. Could he have split the KB to go hunting in the area? Did the Brit DDs at Mersing have radar? It makes a huge difference to night time surprise - the Allies get it more often than the Japanese. The landing losses at Mersing suggest stormy weather in the night phase too. As for the Japanese DD's poor performance, they were shackled to the transports which were stopped and unloading so they were easy targets. Once they took a few hits their gunnery would suffer badly. High experience on the Brit DDs also helped your cause! Great timing on your part! [&o]

Chickenboy -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/24/2012 1:04:44 AM)
Heya Bull, I've been thinking about this for a few days and decided to post it: I apologize for my strident / ardent tones earlier. It was unnecessary. You're doing quite well and don't need to be told what to do in such a manner. I refer to my exhortations to bug out in Burma and my short commentary as a rationale for same. The tone was unbecoming. While what I said was true: Burmese infantry stinks on ice and Rangoon is a death trap for the Allies in the beginning of the war. Your British support HQ and base forces would not avail you either in defense. However, the manner in which I said it gave you no credit for the very intelligent defense you've conducted to this point. In retrospect, your war is different. Your fight in Burma is now different and should not be gauged by previous experiences. The fact is that you've got a shedload of Chinese infantry coming into Burma and your opponent has not conducted his Burmese offensive with as much force as I'd have expected. These two factors in combination will make your Burmese war different than anything I've experienced. You may even be able to "hold until relieved...hold until relieved...Ham and Jam...Ham and Jam...". So, I should strongly consider backing off and letting your war play out as it will. I give you more credit for an intelligent campaign and avoiding the paint-by-the-numbers reactions of many Allied players. As our Manitoban / Manitobian / Winnipegger / Winnie (?) colleague has astutely observed: you're doing imaginative things and the results are fascinating. Keep up the good work! Don't get down on yourself. You're doing fine. I think your 60:40 in favor of a loss is way off base. Hold him for a month or two or break whatever the heck he's doing at Hawaii and you'll be in really good shape. Chin up. Jolly good. Keep calm and put bacon on. [8D]

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/24/2012 1:04:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy Wow- you are both doing imaginative "unconventional" things and the results are very interesting! Congrats on your defence of PH and Mersing! The strike at PH was quite small - like one carrier's worth. Could he have split the KB to go hunting in the area? Did the Brit DDs at Mersing have radar? It makes a huge difference to night time surprise - the Allies get it more often than the Japanese. The landing losses at Mersing suggest stormy weather in the night phase too. As for the Japanese DD's poor performance, they were shackled to the transports which were stopped and unloading so they were easy targets. Once they took a few hits their gunnery would suffer badly. High experience on the Brit DDs also helped your cause! Great timing on your part! [&o] Just sent the next turn back. The last search results on the carrier TF near Hawaii show 1 CV, 5 CVLs (yeah), 3 BBs. I know there are Claude-carrying somethings near Palembang, and recent A2A unit name read outs there say those are the CVLs/CVEs. Ruyjo, etc. I think the TF near Hawaii is the KB, or most of it, but he's reserving sorties for whatever his main mission is going to be. I cleaned out bystanders this turn, even though the unloads weren't done, and I'm pulling in about a dozen subs for reloads. Unfortunately I let Nevada go into upgrade cycle; she could have fought before at about 6/2/2 damage or so. I have Warspite and about six CAs around Hawaii fully ready, and I think three CLs, plus numerous DDs, maybe fifteen? I'm counting on the short sprints, ready reloads and fuel, and the yards to save me if a series of surface actions happens. If I can make him worry about the KB and my S-baots as much as I have to worry about its planes I have a chance to do at least OK, although a landing at Kona would be unpleasant. So far the TF trailing the KB reads as 2 xAKs and a CM (?) Of course, some of the Japanese CMs are really light cruisers. But 2 xAKs is not enough to do anything but sink. And I have very good naval search around Hawaii, the best on the map. I don't get it. Yet. The RN DDs have what they start with. I don't think they have radar, but I'd have to check. We're playing with realsitic weather OFF, so I don't know if storms really affect landings. I've never played with it off before. Getting 9500 men ashore is pretty good. Darn amphib bonus!!! [:'(]

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/24/2012 1:16:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chickenboy Heya Bull, I've been thinking about this for a few days and decided to post it: I apologize for my strident / ardent tones earlier. It was unnecessary. You're doing quite well and don't need to be told what to do in such a manner. I refer to my exhortations to bug out in Burma and my short commentary as a rationale for same. The tone was unbecoming. While what I said was true: Burmese infantry stinks on ice and Rangoon is a death trap for the Allies in the beginning of the war. Your British support HQ and base forces would not avail you either in defense. However, the manner in which I said it gave you no credit for the very intelligent defense you've conducted to this point. In retrospect, your war is different. Your fight in Burma is now different and should not be gauged by previous experiences. The fact is that you've got a shedload of Chinese infantry coming into Burma and your opponent has not conducted his Burmese offensive with as much force as I'd have expected. These two factors in combination will make your Burmese war different than anything I've experienced. You may even be able to "hold until relieved...hold until relieved...Ham and Jam...Ham and Jam...". So, I should strongly consider backing off and letting your war play out as it will. I give you more credit for an intelligent campaign and avoiding the paint-by-the-numbers reactions of many Allied players. As our Manitoban / Manitobian / Winnipegger / Winnie (?) colleague has astutely observed: you're doing imaginative things and the results are fascinating. Keep up the good work! Don't get down on yourself. You're doing fine. I think your 60:40 in favor of a loss is way off base. Hold him for a month or two or break whatever the heck he's doing at Hawaii and you'll be in really good shape. Chin up. Jolly good. Keep calm and put bacon on. [8D] Thanks, CB. I didn't take the Rangoon comments badly. They really did make me relook at the railroads-and tanks-combo. Mike was a soldier and he thinks like one. I had hoped to use Rangoon longer, as it is a tasty VP treat to give over for free, but already, with only one more Indian unit to move out, the supply stockpile is down to 900, so it flowed up-country anyway. His tanks are still sitting at Pegu without a movement dot. Getting the Chinese in will be "odd", but as always in Burma it's the supply quesiton. So many of them need months in a big, rich city to fatten up. I have replacements off for all of China except Chungking, where they are fattening, and building toward Forts 7. My overall goal is to relieve much of the Indian garrison load with Chinese and free up some Indian heavy units to bring down to the Irrawaddy Valley later in 1942. Longer term, if he allows it, I'm thinking of staying off the coast with the Chinese and using a good portion of them to try an Indo-China thrust on about the longitude of Chang Mai, with a view to cut Bangkok from the east, and proceed to Saigon if possible by 1/44. But that's long range. Right now the Hawaii stuff is very interesting and making me think a lot. The turn I just sent back took four hours of checking and clicking. I think I'm getting a lot more milage out of secondary small fry I'd just let sit in an AI game. But again, no worries. I like having people comment in here. Otherwise I'm writing just for Mike's reading someday. If what I'm trying makes folks break out of the common mold any, so much the better.

BBfanboy -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/24/2012 1:19:21 AM)
The only other invasion of Hawaii that I can recall was in Yubari's [Allies] rookie AAR. The Japanese landed very early with heavy commitment of troops and ships. Yubari was able to hold them for some time by shutting down their airfield construction with HBs. Unfortuately he lost all his carriers in a trap a few months later and didn't have the heart to continue the game, but I was impressed at how the weak allies were able to pin the Japanese in place and not let them progress in their conquest. I think Big Red took up the AAR and continued it but it still shows as Yubari's AAR, if you want to look at it.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/24/2012 1:31:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy The only other invasion of Hawaii that I can recall was in Yubari's [Allies] rookie AAR. The Japanese landed very early with heavy commitment of troops and ships. Yubari was able to hold them for some time by shutting down their airfield construction with HBs. Unfortuately he lost all his carriers in a trap a few months later and didn't have the heart to continue the game, but I was impressed at how the weak allies were able to pin the Japanese in place and not let them progress in their conquest. I think Big Red took up the AAR and continued it but it still shows as Yubari's AAR, if you want to look at it. I did read some of that right about the time he gave up. Didn't he lose the carriers near Sumatra? Or I could be remembering another. I'll take a look at the earlier pages. One thing I did that many don't is I sent three B-17, 2-3 2E B-bombers, and 2 heavy P-39 units to CT on the second day. They'll be there in eight days, and could do good work, even if it's Soerbaja by the time they get on map. But I don't have them to commit to Hawaii. I just have my carriers.

Crackaces -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/24/2012 5:18:27 PM)
quote: Getting the Chinese in will be "odd", but as always in Burma it's the supply quesiton. So many of them need months in a big, rich city to fatten up. I have replacements off for all of China except Chungking, where they are fattening, and building toward Forts 7. My overall goal is to relieve much of the Indian garrison load with Chinese and free up some Indian heavy units to bring down to the Irrawaddy Valley later in 1942. Longer term, if he allows it, I'm thinking of staying off the coast with the Chinese and using a good portion of them to try an Indo-China thrust on about the longitude of Chang Mai, with a view to cut Bangkok from the east, and proceed to Saigon if possible by 1/44. But that's long range. I have in 2 games [both scenario #1] have not comitted as much Chineese as you have to Burma. In that perspective, I have used them as an annyoance causing the IJA to move forces north while the Brits, Indians. and Aussies put pressure coming due East. A funny thing in terms of maneuver in this game. A single unit sitting on a road interdicting supplies will change combat odds and firepower dramatically. In a rough/jungle hex an out of supply chineese unit can put up quite a defense in terms of distracting forces from objectives. That said in the light of thinking building up big forces and fighting a WWI slugfest of attrition vs. slow methodical interdiction of LOC while the Allies prepare for a thurst .. Just a thought ...

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/24/2012 8:50:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy The only other invasion of Hawaii that I can recall was in Yubari's [Allies] rookie AAR. The Japanese landed very early with heavy commitment of troops and ships. Yubari was able to hold them for some time by shutting down their airfield construction with HBs. Unfortuately he lost all his carriers in a trap a few months later and didn't have the heart to continue the game, but I was impressed at how the weak allies were able to pin the Japanese in place and not let them progress in their conquest. I think Big Red took up the AAR and continued it but it still shows as Yubari's AAR, if you want to look at it. Re-quoting this one. I have just spent three hours reading most of this AAR. I began going faster in the last portion as it looks like the players were just bashing at each other, and the "no house rules, OK house rules, OK no house rules, 1 day, 2 day, 1 day, activate Russia please" elements of it overtook a tightly played game. That said, the early game around Hawaii was very, very interesting. There are some adjustments I will make this turn and in coming days to reflect what I saw in that AAR. I won't go into details now. Also, it shows that even with far more force than has been shown in this game, Japan taking the Hawaiian islands is extremely difficult. Yubari let FatR up off the mat by caving on night bombing; had that not happened the thing would have been over earlier. Japan has to win or the losses which can be suffered at Hawaii are extreme. To my way of thinking it is the most difficult of the Big Moves Japan can try to win a 1/1/43 auto-vic. I have underestimated a few things, and very much overestimated others. Thanks a lot for this reference.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/24/2012 8:53:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Crackaces quote: Getting the Chinese in will be "odd", but as always in Burma it's the supply quesiton. So many of them need months in a big, rich city to fatten up. I have replacements off for all of China except Chungking, where they are fattening, and building toward Forts 7. My overall goal is to relieve much of the Indian garrison load with Chinese and free up some Indian heavy units to bring down to the Irrawaddy Valley later in 1942. Longer term, if he allows it, I'm thinking of staying off the coast with the Chinese and using a good portion of them to try an Indo-China thrust on about the longitude of Chang Mai, with a view to cut Bangkok from the east, and proceed to Saigon if possible by 1/44. But that's long range. I have in 2 games [both scenario #1] have not comitted as much Chineese as you have to Burma. In that perspective, I have used them as an annyoance causing the IJA to move forces north while the Brits, Indians. and Aussies put pressure coming due East. A funny thing in terms of maneuver in this game. A single unit sitting on a road interdicting supplies will change combat odds and firepower dramatically. In a rough/jungle hex an out of supply chineese unit can put up quite a defense in terms of distracting forces from objectives. That said in the light of thinking building up big forces and fighting a WWI slugfest of attrition vs. slow methodical interdiction of LOC while the Allies prepare for a thurst .. Just a thought ... I did consider an "swarm of bees" deployment of Chinese larger units into smaller in China in order to cut lines, but decided to retreat instead. Burma is a far smaller footprint for atomizaiton, and later on there is a possibility of air resupply for small Chinese squatters. Chinese units are easy to shatter if they're in the wrong terrain, but remarkably hard to kill down to the last man.

Chickenboy -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/24/2012 9:21:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 That said, the early game around Hawaii was very, very interesting. There are some adjustments I will make this turn and in coming days to reflect what I saw in that AAR. I won't go into details now. OK. Can you give us a rough bulleted list of most salient points that you took away from this AAR that are applicable for you?

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/24/2012 9:56:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chickenboy quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 That said, the early game around Hawaii was very, very interesting. There are some adjustments I will make this turn and in coming days to reflect what I saw in that AAR. I won't go into details now. OK. Can you give us a rough bulleted list of most salient points that you took away from this AAR that are applicable for you? A few, then I have to write and there's a turn in the box . . . 1) Lahaina is far more important than either Hilo or Kona. 2) Get the BBs out of Pearl, even at 50:50 odds of sinking. I've gotten two out, but the others are stuck in upgrade. Big boo-boo. I thought he was gone on to other endeavors. 3) I do not have nearly enough fighters. 4) Night bombing overstacked AFs works and is "fair" (not that I care about that.) 5) Subs can be over-relied upon. 6) Johnson I. needs to be suppressed while the location of the KB is known. 7) USMC CD units are key to blunt the landings while the bonus is in force. 8) Mines can be over-relied upon. 9) In early '42 there just isn't enough LCU to defend both Kona and Hilo, and maybe not enough for one of them. Too much bread, not enough jam. 10) A wound is as good as a kill. Truk is a long truck.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/24/2012 10:27:55 PM)
January 6, 1942 Shall We Dance? In my transmission e-mail I suggested this turn might see some fireworks. In the reply Mike said not so much; he saw this as revenge for Mersing and not much else. I was very worried as the movie started. But the whole day was more a minuet of moving and probing, and not much resolution. I still have No . . . Freakin' . . . Idea what he's up to at Hawaii. Or Sumatra. With the turn this morning he said it was tedious for him due to Japanese economic fiddling. He said he feels as if he's already robbing Peter to pay Paul. A slip? Psyops? In Scen. 2 he is not short of anything--really--yet, but he may be burning fuel faster than he'd like with the cruising about the eastern Pacific, the lack of Palembang or Balikpapan or Soerbaja yet, and my endeavors to blow up the petroleum he does hold. Or it could be resources too. I'm giving him a fair bit of those in China, but that doesn't get them to the HI. Anyway, a pretty easy turn for the Allies except for the bit at the end. 1) TF attack at Palembang with torps on three DDs costs him 1 Nell down and 3 damaged. Palembang gets a lot of attention again this turn. Won't relate it all. 2) More Manila pounding doing a lot of runway damage and a little supply. Over 120 bombers in total. I've moved 50% of the defenders out to Clark now, and all but one will go tomorrow, leaving one decent PI unit to keep the supply flowing. I flushed the last xAK out of the yards today with 85 system damage and just a bit too little flooding to scuttle. It promptly sank, leaving the PTs at Bataan the only things floating in Luzon. Cebu has two small fry still (AMs) and a few fighters and floats. The PI is ready to be pushed over, but he still has not moved even on Lingayan. 3) Victoria Point is bombed by a bunch of Lily's, but it's been empty since December 8th. 4) Singers attrition continues, but it's not closing the AF at this level. Fort building progresses very slowly. Morning Air attack on Singapore , at 50,84 Weather in hex: Heavy cloud Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 11 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-21-IIa Sally x 29 Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 19 Allied aircraft Buffalo I x 3 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-21-IIa Sally: 14 damaged Ki-21-IIa Sally: 1 destroyed by flak Allied aircraft losses Buffalo I: 1 damaged Buffalo I: 1 destroyed on ground Allied ground losses: 6 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Airbase hits 11 Airbase supply hits 2 Runway hits 10 5) In another move I don't understand, he brings BBs right onto Singers' doorstep. The TBs are alive but elsewhere. Perhaps he thinks the AF is closed? Also, Singers is a major sub base still, and has a few surface assets with torpedoes. I don't see what this gets him unless he's planning to run up the strait and re-base at Rangoon, which he'll have a couple of days. Even so, fuel won't flow there until he takes some up-country bases. Just odd. Morning Air attack on TF, near Tandjoengpinang at 50,86 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 7 minutes Allied aircraft Blenheim IV x 3 139WH-3 x 3 Allied aircraft losses Blenheim IV: 2 damaged Japanese Ships BB Haruna BB Kongo 6) Hawaii. Bolos taken off ASW fly and get hit pretty hard by CAP. 4 down. But this raid shows CAP units from all six KB fleet carriers, so they're all here. A small Kate/Zero raid on Hilo targets CL Trenton there, but misses. Two Wildcats are lost. B-17s from Pearl fly on xAK Uyo Maru and miss. TF trailing the KB. One Fort lost, four damaged by CAP. But there is confirmaiton there are xAKs present. But search only shows two xAK and one xAP. Not nearly enough for a landing that will do much. Still details in the weeds I can't see yet. 2 Vals attack DD near Hilo and miss. The big attack spoken of in the e-mail comes in the afternoon and targets support ships at Hilo. Afternoon Air attack on Hilo , at 183,111 Weather in hex: Partial cloud Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 17 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 48 B5N1 Kate x 7 B5N2 Kate x 88 D3A1 Val x 54 Allied aircraft F4F-3A Wildcat x 5 F4F-3 Wildcat x 5 Japanese aircraft losses B5N1 Kate: 1 damaged B5N2 Kate: 1 damaged D3A1 Val: 2 damaged Allied aircraft losses F4F-3A Wildcat: 3 destroyed F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed Allied Ships DD Lawrence CL Trenton DD Hull, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage AV Curtiss, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage AG Florence D., Bomb hits 2, heavy fires AD Rigel, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage AR Vestal, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage AE Mauna Loa, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires Allied ground losses: 10 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled) Port hits 8 Port fuel hits 2 Port supply hits 2 7) Mersing falls. 8) Various other air attacks too numerous and routine to list. At Tarakan the Balikpapan boys do heavily damage an in-port xAK which should sink. Given comments today I expect Balikpapan may have moved up on the target list even before its harrassment of Tarakan. Lots to do around Hawaii.

MAurelius -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/24/2012 10:29:38 PM)
only my 2 cents - but in my current GC I packed about 3 Australian (2 large ones with 6inch guns) and 2 US CD Gun units (with the 155mm) into Gerladton - and I hope they will do better in case of an actual invasion than in case of a bombardment run... - cause my AF got trashed every time (with about 30 planes stationed there- so no overstacking) and no CD-gun hits ever scored although the enemy ships closed up to 4000 yards... - the place had lvl 6 forts back then too... so watch out for naval bombardments....

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/24/2012 10:35:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MAurelius only my 2 cents - but in my current GC I packed about 3 Australian (2 large ones with 6inch guns) and 2 US CD Gun units (with the 155mm) into Gerladton - and I hope they will do better in case of an actual invasion than in case of a bombardment run... - cause my AF got trashed every time (with about 30 planes stationed there- so no overstacking) and no CD-gun hits ever scored although the enemy ships closed up to 4000 yards... - the place had lvl 6 forts back then too... so watch out for naval bombardments.... He has at least several BBs with the KB which could be split off. But reloading is a ways. I need to check out Johnson to see if he has several AKEs there. I never count on CD units to do anything about naval bombardment. It's night and the BBs can stand off fifteen miles and shoot at unmoving targets. CD is there for landings only. The early USMC CD is pretty good.

MAurelius -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/24/2012 10:52:35 PM)
if he wants to get serious with PH - he HAS to have a few AKEs close by.... or otherwise you will trash his conquered bases with bombardment runs :D

BBfanboy -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/24/2012 11:18:17 PM)
Speaking of BBs, I would expect that the 2 off Singers were going on a bombardment run but ran out of ops points before they could do the deed. Sometimes happens if the escorting DDs/DMSs need fuel before they get there.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/24/2012 11:27:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy Speaking of BBs, I would expect that the 2 off Singers were going on a bombardment run but ran out of ops points before they could do the deed. Sometimes happens if the escorting DDs/DMSs need fuel before they get there. Where do you figure? Singers has permanent CD and a lot of mines, and they don't fit up the river to P.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/24/2012 11:27:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MAurelius if he wants to get serious with PH - he HAS to have a few AKEs close by.... or otherwise you will trash his conquered bases with bombardment runs :D Might be Palmyra's function.

BBfanboy -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/25/2012 2:42:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy Speaking of BBs, I would expect that the 2 off Singers were going on a bombardment run but ran out of ops points before they could do the deed. Sometimes happens if the escorting DDs/DMSs need fuel before they get there. Where do you figure? Singers has permanent CD and a lot of mines, and they don't fit up the river to P. In a sandbox game to see what Singers defences could do I sent 4 Japanese DDs in to bombard. They caused considerable damage and got away without a scratch! I have also successfully sent BBs/CAs to bombard Saipan naval fortress by setting the standoff distance to 8000 yards. Got a few hits from the smaller, rapid fire guns but nothing more than a few points system damage. I think your previous statement that CDs are for shooting at stationary amphib targets is true most often, although CDs do seem to react to minesweepers!

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/25/2012 11:47:51 PM)
January 7, 1942 Ah, So . . . Take The Hit "Ah, So" said the blind man who picked up his saw and sawed . . . TF 277 detected by Japanese Aircraft at 43,59 near Little Andaman TF 170 detects Japanese Dive Bomber at 46,58 near Port Blair xAKL Illinoian detected by Japanese Recon at 46,58 near Port Blair HDML 1103 detected by Japanese Recon at 46,58 near Port Blair "Take the hit", ordered the Admiral to his flotilla commander at Hilo, who could smell the burning diesel from yesterday's air raids. "They're gonners at sea. At the pier they might give your cruiser a chance." 1) Near Port Blair the above recon/search detects flashed across the screen and I remembered a lone icon passing through the islands SE of Java two weeks ago. The icon was a sub, so I stationed a barrier ASW patrol there, but it was never seen again. Weak air patrols on the west coast of Java, full of holes, never saw anything go by. The detect planes "could" be based from Malaysia, but it's doubtful that many that far out. Rangoon is still Allied. I think a piece or a part of the MKB went a-hunting two weeks ago and the Japanese want a weakly defended Pt. Blair by a rush attack. Troops? I don't know. Maybe the TF has an xAK or three along and will lift a fragment off Rangoon when it's taken. More likley there's a regiment along with the carrier(s). It might also explain the presence of BBs at the southern mouth of the Straits of Malacca. I have two subs in the Straits, but BBs could thunder past pretty swiftly. Where they get fuel up there I don't know. But they could go. xAK refugees from Rangoon were sent to Pt. Blair to drop un-dropped supplies. The HDMLs from there were sent as well. Pt. Blair is very lightly held. It is on the short list, but Colombo is getting stiffened first. Pt. Blair is a very troublesome base to the Allies if lost. It may be. But these sightings were a gift. I have HMS Hermes at Colombo with a few DD escorts. Not much it he has Kates. Stay tuned. 2) At Hilo "take the hit" is the order of the day. In the brutal calculus of war the support ships, some on fire from yesterday, are ordered to stay put and sponge up the KB's attack. They are moslty large ships and will recieve the brunt. At sea they would be visible, slow, and also dead, but to no purpose. In port they may allow the combatants another day of life and prevent the landings from beginning. One more day of fuel use by Japan, one more day for the B-17s and other offensive air to try to hit a carrier. One more day for the subs to get in position for the egress. If the mistake of setting up a fully operable base at Hilo so soon is to mean anything the base component ships must die with some purpose. And it happens that way. Today. Afternoon Air attack on Hilo , at 183,111 Weather in hex: Heavy rain Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 16 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 47 B5N1 Kate x 12 B5N2 Kate x 88 D3A1 Val x 52 Allied aircraft P-40B Warhawk x 7 F4F-3 Wildcat x 1 Japanese aircraft losses B5N1 Kate: 1 damaged D3A1 Val: 2 damaged Allied aircraft losses P-40B Warhawk: 1 destroyed F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed Allied Ships DD Sands CL Trenton DD MacDonough, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires AE Mauna Loa, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage DD Hull, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage AD Rigel, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage Port hits 6 Port fuel hits 1 Port supply hits 1 3) USN sub takes a bite out of mine clearing. Two Dutch O-boats have just delivered large loads, and Japan is trying to clear their main operational port in NW Borneo. ASW attack near Sambas at 57,88 Japanese Ships DMS W-12, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage (It sinks) xAK Hakusika Maru E Uruyame Allied Ships SS S-39, hits 2 4) Saturation bombing on Singers, combined with the newly added residents, take supply levels down to about 29,000. Forts still building toward 4, but that little supply will not mean a long siege. Mark Singers' defense down as another Allied mistake. 5) The PTs from Bataan go shopping agin, but find nothing. There is no longer any torpedo reloading capability at Manila or Bataan, so these are truly one-shot weapons. Every time Japan sees them they strafe and do a few points of damage. This time it was Nates, the first time they've been seen in the PI. 6) It's about time, or past, to evacuate the navy units from Singers, if possible. The DDs there can't do much with BBs and CAs, but might help Force Z if they can get to the IO. One is sunk this turn by torpedo raid. Even against the AI I always seem to do poorly with the Dutch and RN ships trapped in the DEI when the war begins. I prefer to rally them at Soerbaja, but that may not be possible any longer. Morning Air attack on TF, near Singapore at 50,84 Weather in hex: Moderate rain Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 17 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 10 B5N1 Kate x 12 B5N2 Kate x 5 No Japanese losses Allied Ships DD Encounter DD Vendetta, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk DD Stronghold 7) I was incorrect yesterday that Japan bombed a vacant Victoria Point. I was thinking of Georgetown. There is a small base force at VP which has done nothing since the first day. Now, with the bombing, I figure why not and order it to march across to Chumpton. If it has any AV (I didn't check) I might sever the penninsula supply flows for a few days. 8) 21 Bettys bomb Sabang, a first. A new AA unit has just landed from CT. Sabang is my third hold point on Summatra with P. and Oost. It has a few refugee infantry scraps and a lot of engineers. I want to hold it only to deny it to Japan as long as possible since it's the load port for Medan's petroleum. If he has a force up near Pt. Blair it might not be long for the world though. I have nothing to help it with. 9) IJN sub gets one of the last refugees fleeing Palembang. Submarine attack near Oosthaven at 49,95 Japanese Ships SS I-164 Allied Ships xAK Siantar, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage Not an "up" day for the Allies. No screenshots, but the TFs south of the Big Island are bending toward Hilo. If so that's preferable from a CD standpoint to Kona. Hilo has two small infantry units and a tank unit I scrounged off the west coast by using an air HQ in West Coast Command to free up with lower PPs. I have done that with two other small LCUs. Don't plan to make a habit of it, and I never do the PP "tricks" of transfering the high parent command to the restricted, etc. But I did it here with an air HQ. The tanks may be important.

CaptBeefheart -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/26/2012 8:35:06 AM)
This is starting to get interesting. [:)] Kind of curious what your thoughts were regarding placing the support ships at Hilo. That's a big ouchie. Good luck! Cheers, CC

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/26/2012 6:34:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Commander Cody This is starting to get interesting. [:)] Kind of curious what your thoughts were regarding placing the support ships at Hilo. That's a big ouchie. Good luck! Cheers, CC Ouchie is too kind. I sent them there to set up a fully operating base to fight over Palmyra and Christmas. I thought with those two he would (maybe) take Midway to complete the line, then backfill at Wake (still untouched), Tarawa, Canton, Makin, and the two resource-holding islands west of Tarawa I can't recall now. Ndeni and Ocean maybe? I did not think the op area rated the full KB again, until and unless the full-bore attempt to take the main Hawaiian islands was underway, and even then risky since he hasn't seen my CVs for a month. Until three days ago I had a good surface TF on patrol off Hilo, with two CAs, a CL, and five DDs. I've since pulled them into Pearl to work with Warspite. They would have just been chum if they'd been there. One DD at Hilo will sink or be scuttled this turn, but the CL and other DD coudl sortie. Don't know if I will. Might retreat them. I'm wondering if the KB is hanging around waiting for the big troop convoy to come in from the west, or maybe Palmyra.

Canoerebel -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/26/2012 6:40:28 PM)
Moose, just reading along enjoying your AAR. We forumites were fortunate that you dipped your toe into PBEM and decided to do an AAR to boot. Keep up the good work. P.S. Did I pick up a whiff that you were concerened about your long term prospects hsould Hawaii fall? If so, you can banish those thoughts. Hawaii, while more important than, say, Tasmania or Cocos Island, isn't a huge deal for the Allies. The Allies in your capable hands is capable of coming back from nearly any disaster.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/26/2012 7:03:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel Moose, just reading along enjoying your AAR.� We forumites were fortunate that you dipped your toe into PBEM and decided to do an AAR to boot.� Keep up the good work.� P.S.� Did I pick up a whiff that you were concerened about your long term prospects hsould Hawaii fall?� If so, you can banish those thoughts.� Hawaii, while more important than, say, Tasmania or Cocos Island, isn't a huge deal for the Allies.� The Allies in your capable hands is capable of coming back from nearly any disaster. Welcome back, sir. Any sunburn? It was, this morning here, nine degrees. Hawaii is a big psychological and habitual "need" for my style. I've never played without it. I rely on its yards more than any other. I rely on its historical submarine function. It's a superb supply dump ten days closer to the front than almost anywhere else in the first two years. I could play without it, but the VP margins would be a lot tighter. If he took it I think I'd just harrass it with subs from the WC, and go completely off-map to Asia, really cram the LCUs into India, support the Chinese refugees, and throw everything at Indo-China/Hong Kong I could get there. Let the IJN bleed itself out holding Hawaii against an attack that doesn't come. Secondary I'd probably do Norpac to some extent, sticking to the coastal routes up across the Yukon. But whaaaaah! I don't want to !!! [:)]

Canoerebel -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (11/26/2012 7:07:35 PM)
[:)] Okay, that explanation makes sense! (Especially the "whaaaaaah"! Some places are just close to our hearts for a variety of reasons.) Homestead and Key Largo were sunny and warm, and green and blue. The waters of Biscayne Bay and the Carribean are lovely. Me and two of my children even went for a swim a week ago today. Then we returned home on Thanksgiving day, to the wintertime landscape of northwest Georgia. Oh well, free airconditioning!

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