RE: Difficult (Full Version)

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Bossy573 -> RE: Difficult (12/1/2012 7:24:57 PM)

I dunno folks. In the game I just finished as the CP, the Russians completed 2 encirclements which would made Guderian proud 30 years later, and literally wiped out almost my entire German army in the East. Next thing I know they are at the gates of Berlin. In the West, I built what I thought was a rock solid line based on Brussels and south, with the highest entrechment level and artillery in support. So the bastard AI strikes the very south of the line, turns it, and the next thing I know I have no units to plug the hole. Then, instead of running for the nearest city, it turns north to, I assume, encircle and cut off my entire Western army! The only good news is I managed to wipe out Serbia by 1916, but then I'm faced with a combined French, British, Russian force instead! The Ottomans were pushed clear out of Palestine all the way up to Asian Turkey. I gave up the ghost in early 1916.
Most frustrating is every Entente attack, regardless of unit; corps, division (i think that is what a "detachment" is) packs a phenomenal punch, while my own attacks seem weaker. And all this with the AI set to handicapped.
I simply do not suck this bad. Anybody have any ideas based on the above?



Johnus -> RE: Difficult (12/1/2012 8:12:53 PM)

Bossy: First, take AI off handicapped and play on balanced. Handicapped is actually harder than balanced (a bug, so I understand, to be fixed in first patch.)



Myrddraal -> RE: Difficult (12/1/2012 8:59:55 PM)

As Johnnie said, I'm afraid 'Handicapped' mode is bugged, and actually gives the AI production bonuses that it shouldn't receive. It will be fixed in the first patch, but for now, the best mode to play on is Balanced.



Johnus -> RE: Difficult (12/1/2012 11:29:00 PM)

On my second try as the Central Powers I am still learning the mechanics and have no idea how to conduct research or naval warfare. Nevertheless, it is comming on the end of November 1914 and I have taken Paris and held it against counterattack. And I am holding my own in the east. I lost Konigsburg and Lemburg but should be able to get Konigsburg back shortly. I didn't attack Serbia seriously and sent all of my Austrian reinforcements east as I did with most (not all) of my German reinforcments. Maybe I've been lucky, but so far the game doesn't seem stacked against a Central Powers human player.



Bossy573 -> RE: Difficult (12/2/2012 12:20:59 AM)

Thanks on the handicapped thing then. I guess I should be happy all was looking reasonably good until mid-1915 when the Entente simply went ape. I have to admit, even tho I hate losing and have been reading and re-reading the manual and racking my brains for a solution, I am extremely impressed with how good the AI is. Just sitting there and watching it exploit my mistakes, and exploit them in depth - pretty amazing actually.

So we'll have a go on balanced and see what happens.



warspite1 -> RE: Difficult (12/2/2012 12:26:32 AM)

If you think the AI is tough....

I have played a couple of guys who have been in Paris by about turn 6. 6 or 7 German divisions almost at full strength in or around Paris before I can even land a British Infantry [X(]. Now that is impressive....goodness knows how that is done, but I better get practising.....



Bossy573 -> RE: Difficult (12/2/2012 12:46:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I have played a couple of guys who have been in Paris by about turn 6. 6 or 7 German divisions almost at full strength in or around Paris before I can even land a British Infantry [X(]. Now that is impressive....goodness knows how that is done, but I better get practising.....



Looks like somebody finally listened to Schlieffen. [:)]

I could handle it better from some wargaming wiz I guess.....



parusski -> RE: Difficult (12/2/2012 12:51:55 AM)

quote:

So i gave my countries extra 50000 pp


Did you really give yourself 50000 pp or is that a typo.



warspite1 -> RE: Difficult (12/2/2012 1:09:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bossy573


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I have played a couple of guys who have been in Paris by about turn 6. 6 or 7 German divisions almost at full strength in or around Paris before I can even land a British Infantry [X(]. Now that is impressive....goodness knows how that is done, but I better get practising.....


Looks like somebody finally listened to Schlieffen. [:)]

I could handle it better from some wargaming wiz I guess.....
warspite1

Yes - managed it myself - took Paris by Turn 7. Four German Armies in Paris and environs - no chance of reply. I wonder if this is stoppable??



Johnus -> RE: Difficult (12/2/2012 1:26:44 AM)

Well I guess I should shut up. I still have Paris (we'll always have Paris) but in December 1914, I lost all, I repeat, all of East Prussia to the Russians who surrounded me. I am forming a new line, but my left is now Danzig. I hope the French surrender so that I can devote all my attention to these tsarist bastards.



Bossy573 -> RE: Difficult (12/2/2012 1:45:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
I wonder if this is stoppable??


Put me at the wheel and I guarantee it is going nowhere. [:)]

Is it a gamey kind of of exploit or are the Germans just an avalanche? One of the strategies I do want to try is a withdrawl of the German left - drawing the French into the sack, while the right wing plunges thru Belgium and behind French - just as Schleiffen drew it up. Things usually get out of control early tho, and you can see why it would have taken an iron nerve to pull it off.



Bossy573 -> RE: Difficult (12/2/2012 2:37:50 AM)

OK, much better game on balanced The AI is still quite good (you better cover your flanks, period - still paying for my mistakes) but in November, 1914 the Germans are at the gates of Paris (but I probably will not be able to take it), the Serbs have been smacked around and the East front is stable. This is just a great game to play. [:)



Ichirou989 -> RE: Difficult (12/3/2012 12:01:01 AM)

As I had indicated earlier, I've had no problem at all confounding the French as the CP. The sweep through Belgium, once you figure out how to do it, can be accomplished rather quickly. And once the Germans get adjacent to Paris, the French are in deep trouble. Just the attacking and shelling of Paris alone will start to hurt their production, and due to the differences in troop tech, Paris usually falls not long after the Germans arrive. A human player can make this more difficult to accomplish, but it often still happens. Still, to be honest, the situation in France in early September of 1914 really was a near run thing as Wellington would say, and had things been even a little bit different, the Germans may well have broken through and taken Paris. In short, I'm not entirely sure the game should be changed in some way to counter this as it really should be a very close thing in the opening months on the Western Front.



parusski -> RE: Difficult (12/3/2012 12:52:42 AM)

quote:

The sweep through Belgium, once you figure out how to do it


And that is always my problem.



Major Bong -> RE: Difficult (12/3/2012 6:46:44 AM)

How do you guys deal with Turkey ? Once the Turks join in they always go for the weak underside of Russia and after a few rounds they often come up with 2 Corps plus 4 Garrisons, I can barely spare the manpower to stall them, much less fight back. When it comes to technology they are at least as good as my upgraded Russians. It's not much better in Egypt. I ship in the garrisons from Malta and Gibraltar, but it's not enough to stop the Turks, the only way to hang on to Egypt seems to build up 2 British Corps in the region already early in the game. But I really miss the manpower in Europe then.

Also - is it me or does the AI more often than not get away with insane attacks which would inflict horrible casualties on your own forces if you tried them ? In the east I can live with it, since the Germans should be superior when it comes to training and doctrine. But in the west the AI often throws it's forces against entrenched and upgraded units and inflicts damage while taking no losses itself. Ok so the devs say that their AI does not cheat, but it would be nice if there was an option to see why certain battles play out the way they do.

Also the Germans must have some magic hat to pull forces out of. As Entente whenever I have a spare unit left I try to flank or open a new front, but they are always able to throw some obstacle my way. For example: Italy joins the Entente and opens a new front, just to get stalled immediately at Venice by an entrenched German battleline plus artillery and aircraft. Or: At Przemysl I manage to shorten my front and free up a cavalry corps and an infantry corps to to strike the German rear lines - just to find that every city behind the lines is well guarded. From Calais to Warsaw and from Venice to Alexandria my forces are overstretched with not one unit to spare, but the AI seems to have it's units always where it needs them.

But apart from my personal conspiracy theories this is a pretty fun game. Yesterday I had my first win vs the AI and it played out how WWI really went. Stalled the Germans in Northern France, saved Paris in the last second and then got dragged into a war of attrition in the West and a slightly more mobile war in the East. Around mid 1917 the German West front starts to crumble, while at the same time the Russian front is in shambles with the last organized units fighting a desperate delaying action, in late 1917 the first British tanks reach Berlin.

The only thing that bugs me is that I barely get to play with the cooler toys like bombers, zeppelins or railroad guns since I usually have to dumpt all my points into infantry corps to prevent getting steamrolled.








vonRocko -> RE: Difficult (12/3/2012 1:30:52 PM)

Funny thing is, when you play Turkey you barely have enough PP or troops for anything, but when the AI has them it is opening the caucaus front and coming into Egypt.? I've also seen attacks that just aren't possible for the human and the AI succeeds at. All AIs' need all the help they can get, but I'm confused because the devs say it doesn't have a combat advantage, but that is not what I "seem" to see. Good game though.



Myrddraal -> RE: Difficult (12/3/2012 1:53:37 PM)

I can only explain it as psychological effect. I promise I'm not lying to you. In certain difficulty levels the AI gets some advantages, but never in stats or lucky rolls.

When you're under pressure, it generally feels like the enemy is pulling off the impossible. I generally find that the effect is even stronger in multiplayer, it always seems like my opponent has an easy time of it, and I'm under intense pressure. If you talk to your opponent, they'll often say they feel the same way. FOW accentuates this effect because in your mind's eye, the AI has huge reserves just out of sight. In reality they may be stretched to breaking point, but any advantage is magnified by the uncertainty.



vonRocko -> RE: Difficult (12/3/2012 2:03:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Myrddraal

I can only explain it as psychological effect. I promise I'm not lying to you. In certain difficulty levels the AI gets some advantages, but never in stats or lucky rolls.

When you're under pressure, it generally feels like the enemy is pulling off the impossible. I generally find that the effect is even stronger in multiplayer, it always seems like my opponent has an easy time of it, and I'm under intense pressure. If you talk to your opponent, they'll often say they feel the same way. FOW accentuates this effect because in your mind's eye, the AI has huge reserves just out of sight. In reality they may be stretched to breaking point, but any advantage is magnified by the uncertainty.


I believe you! It's just that sometimes..........[;)][:)]



BYU 14 -> RE: Difficult (12/3/2012 2:05:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Major Bong

How do you guys deal with Turkey ? Once the Turks join in they always go for the weak underside of Russia and after a few rounds they often come up with 2 Corps plus 4 Garrisons, I can barely spare the manpower to stall them, much less fight back.



I focus on keeping them busy by the Suez with the Brits. I build up 2 inf, 3-4 garrisons and get an artillery unit there as soon as the West is stable. (You can deploy here without needing to use transports)

This forces the Turks to send units to stop the Brits from advancing to Gaza and Jerusalem. Doing this all I needed was 1 Russian Garrison each in Batumi, Tiflis and Baku and I was able to keep them at bay.



Myrddraal -> RE: Difficult (12/3/2012 2:09:11 PM)

quote:

This forces the Turks to send units to stop the Brits from advancing to Gaza and Jerusalem. Doing this all I needed was 1 Russian Garrison each in Batumi, Tiflis and Baku and I was able to keep them at bay.


If you coordinate your defence of Russia with offensives in Egypt, I think you can get away with an even smaller garrison. I reckon it's possible to hold the Caucasus with just one garrison initially, ramping up to two garrisons a couple of turns later. If you lose Sarikamis, it's really not the end of the world (far from it) and attacking deeper into Russia means a serious commitment of troops to a region the Turks can't easily back out of. If they're under pressure in Egypt, the Turks can't afford that.



mbar -> RE: Difficult (12/3/2012 3:04:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Myrddraal

I can only explain it as psychological effect. I promise I'm not lying to you. In certain difficulty levels the AI gets some advantages, but never in stats or lucky rolls.



It says a great deal about the AI for TGW when the developer needs to reassure people the AI is not cheating in so many threads. I know the Handicapped setting needs a patch. That said, well done! I can't wait to pick this up.



Gilmer -> RE: Difficult (12/9/2012 4:54:10 AM)

I have played 3 games as the Entente. Well, I started 3 games. The first game, well, that was just a learning phase. The 2nd game, I took some of the advice and tips I learned from the Forum and made it all the way to pretty much the end of 1916 and I think I might have done OK if I had not made some errors in decision making. It really encouraged me. Things collapsed soon after Bulgaria entered the war and Romania after. I think I got to the point of getting impatient and realized I had not really been doing anything for Russia, even though I had stabilized all fronts right before the Bulgaria/Romania entry points. Made it over halfway through 118 turns. And thought I was making some really good progress in the West. I kind of got annoyed when the Germans two-shotted one of my tank British tank units though. Still not sure how that happened and the tank units didn't do much. Once the Germans get into Antwerp, they won't leave. I made some mistakes on ammunition, too. I had two French artillery and never had enough ammo for any kind of offensive.

My 3rd game was a disaster. Seemed like the AI was getting kills on units with 2 shots. Seemed like they just went through the Russian units and nothing seemed to stop them. Getting -6 in one shot, even with attacking across rivers. I think I can stabilize the West as Entente, pretty much every time. Rush all your regular infantry North unless he keeps regular infantry on the Alsace/Lorraine like in front of Strassburg. I decided to stop that game. The Russian front collapsed almost from the beginning of them entering the war. Not sure why.

I will say that everything people tell you as tips that help you survive, the AI doesn't fight that way at all. Everything that you would do that should end in disaster, the AI seems to be able to do fairly easily, such as attacking where I've been told you need to just entrench and defend.



Major Bong -> RE: Difficult (12/9/2012 6:03:58 AM)

Ultimate Victory for the Central Powers in April 1918 on balanced. Great Britain surrendered when I inflicted over 600 MP losses on them and destroyed their last armies at Suez. This was fun, the AI is good on a tactical level and will exploit your mistakes, on the other hand there are some issues when it comes to the global strategy. Britain concentrates way too much on Suez and Turkey in the early game, when those units could actually save France, I have seen this in several games by now. It's futile what Britain does. Even if they take Jerusalem they usually get bogged down in the rough terrain around Damascus and then sit there doing nothing.

My current strategy all rests on a 1915 victory in Serbia and on Bulgaria. Once Bulgaria joins the CP, you use their armies for a preemptive strike vs Romania. Take Bukarest in 1 round, then push all the way north into the soft underbelly of Russia. Bulgaria can easily support 6 corps which can steamroll all the way to Petrograd. If you have a well manned frontline around Lemberg, Warsaw, Königsberg then the Russians won't have enough units to stall you and the Romanians can't help them after losing Bukarest.




Bossy573 -> RE: Difficult (12/9/2012 4:30:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Major Bong
Ultimate Victory for the Central Powers in April 1918 on balanced. Great Britain surrendered when I inflicted over 600 MP losses on them and destroyed their last armies at Suez. This was fun, the AI is good on a tactical level and will exploit your mistakes, on the other hand there are some issues when it comes to the global strategy. Britain concentrates way too much on Suez and Turkey in the early game, when those units could actually save France, I have seen this in several games by now. It's futile what Britain does. Even if they take Jerusalem they usually get bogged down in the rough terrain around Damascus and then sit there doing nothing.

My current strategy all rests on a 1915 victory in Serbia and on Bulgaria. Once Bulgaria joins the CP, you use their armies for a preemptive strike vs Romania. Take Bukarest in 1 round, then push all the way north into the soft underbelly of Russia. Bulgaria can easily support 6 corps which can steamroll all the way to Petrograd. If you have a well manned frontline around Lemberg, Warsaw, Königsberg then the Russians won't have enough units to stall you and the Romanians can't help them after losing Bukarest.


Thanks for this post. Last couple of games I had Serbia taken care of by the time the Bulgarians came in, and kinda just sat there saying well now what. I left 2 corps near the Romanian border and sent the others to the Italian and Russian fronts. The Russian line you mentioned is exactly that which I held through 1915. Never really considered knocking out Romania straight away as the last thing I wanted to see was a hoard of Russians plunging down through Romania and Bulgaria, threatening whatever they feel like threatening.

Italy is a royal pain in the ass.

Actually had one game where I had the British knocked clean out of Egypt by mid-1915. I have not been able to replicate that as the line usually stabilizes just where you said - north of Jerusalem. It is difficult to hold that line as the last couple of games the British have put air and artillery units there.



lparkh -> RE: Difficult (12/9/2012 10:14:27 PM)

More data points from my experience. 3 games against AI on normal settings. I played as CP. 2nd game I was able to get adjacent to Paris by winter and I think take it but gave up shortly thereafter because East Front was a debacle. Second game I took Paris in winter 1914 and surrendered France in 1915. AH took Serbia about the same time. Turkey got beatup pretty badly (British AI played very well). I blew the naval game. Italy is causing problems but I am now primarily concentrated against the Russians and am encircling them in 1916 on a large scale. I believe I will be able to beat them now with a one front war.
If you are struggling with beating the French here are my suggestions:
1) Schwerpunkt -- I gave maybe a garrison unit to the German east front (lost Danzig but was able to hold west of there). I focused all German attention on quickly conquering Belgium and then driving to Paris via Calais.
2) Parisian focus -- I ignored the Brits in Rheims (or whatever next city after calais is. I encircled her by bypassing her on the West (forcing the Seine). Having 3 or 4 units next to her by winter with artillery behind meant pretty certain to take.
3) AH - they foucs on holding off Russians with Garrisons ( I lost one or two cities) and otherwise taking out Serbia.

HOpe that helps .The AI is quite talented but taking out France I think is doable more often than not.

Next time I play CP I might start in 1915 to force me into a more troublesome two front war situation which should be interesting. Or maybe I will try out Entente.



lparkh -> RE: Difficult (12/9/2012 10:30:17 PM)

Major Bong I al doing the same knock out Romanian preemptively. I agree with ur analysis about UK.they could save France instead



lparkh -> RE: Difficult (12/10/2012 12:03:02 AM)

Another interesting update. The AI has sent British units to support Italy! IMpressive. I figured they'd be passive outside of ME for the rest of the game after I knocked out France. Well played AI! Nor was I able to knock out Romania in one round. And now I notice they have two capitals. On the other hand I am smashing up the Russkies pretty good right now :-)
Update 7/1916. Russia surrendered. Rather early I thought but Russian Revolution it seems. Must have been the casualty rate. Going to call the game at this point. If the Brits had reinforced France more heavily this would have been a more interesting game.



Major Bong -> RE: Difficult (12/10/2012 3:34:11 AM)

I even saw the AI sending a British garrison to Serbia in 1914, in 2 different games. Also French artillery in Italy, but no French arti on the West front where it was needed a lot more. Some of the decisions are weird. I think the AI would be more effective if it prioritized a bit more - why have 3 French units in Italy and several Italians in France when these units should be on their homefront.

About the Russians: I have seen both so far: a tame circus bear and a rabid monster-bear. In some games the Russians just dig in and are content, but then again I had a game where the Russians started a summer offensive in 1915, smashed several German corps and were only stopped by luck and some rapid force transfers from other fronts. This offense made me play my last CP game very cautiously, probably placing too much emphasis on Russia. This in turn led to having too few units in the West front, where I took Paris and then engaged in a trench warfare until I finally felt safe enough in the east around early 1917.



Bossy573 -> RE: Difficult (12/11/2012 2:50:23 AM)

Hey, another thing I just realized reading through a few AARs, do you folks usually play with FOW on or off? I have always played with it on.



Myrddraal -> RE: Difficult (12/11/2012 9:45:12 AM)

It isn't possible to turn off FOW. It is too integral to the game design.



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