RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (Full Version)

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CaptBeefheart -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 8:18:46 AM)

On your next target: The logical one would be the Marianas, especially after you take Wake, but as your SigInt was saying those islands are probably filled to the gills with the emperor's finest. No, hitting the Marianas wouldn't display any strategic flair. The Kuriles/Hokkaido? Probably also bristling with enemy troops, and winter is coming. Sumatra? You've been there, done that. No, I think the next target will be Java and then Borneo. Java could easily be isolated with the Death Star as the troops roll it up, then a quick hop to NW Borneo and Hainan and all of a sudden the oil spigot is turned off. From there it's either go toward Japan through Taiwan and Luzon or southern China, or, in a deception worthy of GreyJoy, pretend to go that way, all the while secretly building forces in Alaska to administer the coup de grace in either Hokkaido or northern Honshu in Spring 1944.

Cheers,
CC




Bif1961 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 1:30:21 PM)

So when will the Wake assault hit the Island?




Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 1:52:51 PM)

The invasion TF is 38 hexes from Wake. Depending on what happens next turn, though, I may have to replenish ammo, sorties and some aircraft at Midway prior to the invasion. That will be necessary if the BBs get into surface clashes (to this point they haven't so they're all "good to go"). So D-Day could be in as little as a week or as late as two weeks. But the sooner the better, while John is still reeling.




Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 2:01:52 PM)

Great quote. I'm going to create a sub-file in my "future story ideas" folder. I don't know if I can mix together Frodo, Oliver Wendell Holmes and James Longstreet in a single story, but maybe. Holmes, I think, was a Union Army veteran.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

The thought is a magnificent one. I've used it before when speaking to historic groups about the end of the Civil War. How does a captain who led troops into battle at Spotsylvania or Franklin return home, pick up a pitchfork, and resume life? What does he do when his wife scolds him ("Honey, you forgot to take out the trash again") or questions his judgment ("I don't think you should plant the north 40 with corn this year")? How do you go from battlefield command to taking out the trash?


Granted, I'm going a bit off-topic, but Oliver Wendell Holmes gave an impressive answer:

Through our great good fortune, in our youth our hearts were touched with fire. It was given to us to learn at the outset that life is a profound and passionate thing. While we are permitted to scorn nothing but indifference, and do not pretend to undervalue the worldly rewards of ambition, we have seen with our own eyes, beyond and above the gold fields, the snowy heights of honor, and it is for us to bear the report to those who come after us. But, above all, we have learned that whether a man accepts from Fortune her spade, and will look downward and dig, or from Aspiration her axe and cord, and will scale the ice, the one and only success which it is his to command is to bring to his work a mighty heart.

--Memorial Day Address, 1884






F4F -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 2:10:47 PM)

An outside the box thought, with KB and John's morale temporarily down and out is there an opportunity to use the death star to seriously damage his oil production? Just trying to think how to leverage a tactical victory (in one sense) to accomplish strategic goals.




jwolf -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 2:11:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
But the sooner the better, while John is still reeling.


Definitely.




Cap Mandrake -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 2:18:25 PM)

Meaning no disrespect to the Great Man but this whole island by island thingy seems kind of pedestrian and out of character.


The chant begins......Hokkaido,,,,Hokkaido,,,Hokkaido,,,,,,Hokkaido!




Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 2:27:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: F4F

An outside the box thought, with KB and John's morale temporarily down and out is there an opportunity to use the death star to seriously damage his oil production? Just trying to think how to leverage a tactical victory (in one sense) to accomplish strategic goals.


No strategic bombing until 1944 (I think a carrier strike would count as strat bombing).

But my main thought is to not detach important offensive tools for lengthy missions. The war is in CenPac right now. The terrain is just what I'd ask for if I have decided carrier superiority. I can pick where I want to go, avoid strong LBA nests, and John has to take long chances to stop such a strategy.

So, for the time being, the plan is to move deep into CenPac with all available assets.




Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 2:32:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheGreatDebate

I'll keep looking for the story you mention; here is a link that mentions the journey but not the quote...

https://books.google.com/books?id=Mlcf8BJGmDoC&pg=PA149&lpg=PA149&dq=Longstreet+++Yonah&source=bl&ots=mhBL6CgHQH&sig=zZhNUKqUuMrAkGw6nhwFGL95ktc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiD_-Kfm-XMAhVn2oMKHYTKDJkQ6AEIMTAE#v=onepage&q=Longstreet%20%20%20Yonah&f=false


Thanks, GreatDebate! That has to be the core of the incident I was referring to. I think I have Sorrell's book at my office, so I'll read further to see if there's anything else there.

I've read Longstreet's reminiscences (Manassas to Appomattox, or something like that), and I don't think he mentions the incident.

By the way, in reading through the link you provided, GreatDebate, there were some very harsh opinions expressed by Longstreet about General John B. Gordon, including maligning his military abilities. That came as a surprise. I thought Gordon was very highly regarded. So I'm going to stick that in the back of my mind and remember to "temper" any stories I write about Gordon with the possibility that he wasn't universally admired. I'll have to delve more deeply into this.




paullus99 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 2:32:54 PM)

My recommendation is to stay focused....you will only get stronger, while John is going to get weaker. I am very interested to see what the final "butcher's bill" is going to be here - how many flattops he lost outright, along with how many will be back in the yards for months.

That also doesn't include the number of surface combatants that he lost as well, both permanently & those back in the yards.

While it may be tempting to rush, a prepared advance against a weakened opponent will be unstoppable.




Bif1961 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 4:40:09 PM)

If after Wake you next phase is to attack the Marianas you might want to speed up that date or go north to Bonis Islands skipping the Marianas altogether. He will now be reinforcing the Marianas and might not expect you to by pass them. An invasion of Japan in early 1944 would be a shock to him.




Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 5:48:29 PM)

9/22/43

Thin Man: The final Japanese CV TF made a clean break to the NW and avoided the combat TF sent her way. But she lashed out with her strike aircraft, sinking BB Nevada with 5 TT hits.

Allied combat TFs fanned out during the nighttime hours, seeking crippled carriers, but instead found a few combat TFs that John sent in to confuse the radar and serve in rear-guard capacity. There were a series of combat TF clashes, with the Allied TFs showing their lack of ammo. A few hits were scored to slow some enemy DDs, and DD Cony, a Fletcher ate a TT (she had 98 FLT damage, so I scuttled her).

During the afternoon, Death Star strike aircraft hit some of the Japanese combat vessels, sinking CL Yahagi and scoring HF/HD hits on DDs Sagiri, Amatsukaze and Kisaragi.

Over in the Marshalls, Beauforts escorted by Lightnings once again hit a transport TF, sinking 2 xAK and 1 AKL. 20 combat squads and 23 non-combat went down with the ships.

So the great naval battle is winding down, it seems, though subs from both sides are in the vicinity in large numbers and who knows what action might occur to John, who has been hard hit and may be a bit desperate. I don't think he'd send in BBs or reverse course with KB, but it is remotely possible.

All told, I have confirmation that the Allies sank 8 CVE and 1 CV. I'll be very surprised if the total doesn't include an additional 2 CV and 3 CVL. I think John also lost two CL and perhaps 10-15 DD. Other ships took damage, including a CB hit hard. I regret that Akagi, which was out their for the plucking, seems to have gotten clean away. In fact, I was shocked that my NavSearch didn't pick up a single carrier except in the KB TF that hit Nevada. Where'd they all go? Did they sink? Did John scuttle them? Did the damage reports exaggerate so that I'm overestimating the damage? Any of these are possibilities. The points for Ships Lost didn't increase dramatically this turn, so I think there are cripples out there. I just don't know where they are.

But this battle was a staggering defeat for the Japanese navy. Apart from the carrier tally, the loss of CLs and DDs was signficant for John. And his yards should be filled with damaged ships for a long time to come.

But the Allies didn't emerge unscathed. I lost 2 Fletchers and BB Nevada. BB Massachusetts, CL St. Louis, and CVs Enterprise and Hornet suffered moderate damage. And a host of combat ships have light or moderate damage from surface clashes. Pearl Harbor isn't too distant, but enemy subs may claim additional victims.

But I think I can proceed with the Wake invasion sooner rather than later. I have enough combat ships that weren't engaged in surface gunnery that they still have main gun ammo. That will allow the bombardments so critical to atoll invasions. And I have time to quickly replenish some of the smaller combat vessels at Midway, where I'll also see if the carriers can replenish sorties and possibly replace some lost aircaft. Too, fresh SBD squadrons are island hopping to Midway via Johnston from Pearl to take the place of depleted squadrons.

CV Bunker Hill and CVL Cowpens arrived at Pearl today. They refueled and will follow an ASW TF to Midway. Three NoPac CVEs are just a couple of days out of Pearl. The invasion TF is moving so quickly (fast APAs and AKAs) that they'll be on station and chomping at the bit while the replenishing stuff is happening at Midway. Truly, speed is everything. John probably will scramble to reinforce Wake, so I don't want to dally.

I have a great deal of clicking to do. I've decided on a plan that builds on the Battle of Wake Island. There's a huge amount of troops and shipping that needs to be moved. But given current locations and positioning of the bulk of the transport ships, this can be done relatively efficiently and quickly.

So the sequence is this: (1) Replenish at Midway and invade Wake Island within 7-10 days while, at the same time, working on ships and troops and supplies for the next big thing; (2) after Wake, retire to Pearl to make good all air losses, etc., while continuing to bring ships, troops and supply forward to Pearl; (3) proceed with Operation (to be named) possibly as soon as a month from now.






obvert -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 5:58:30 PM)

Your pace is definitely picking up. I'll be interested to see how John begins to shift to the defensive and if he can take on that plucky and resilient mindset so necessary for the late game.

Any plans in Burma or China?

As always, the more supply and resource drain you create for the Empire the better for your later operations.




BBfanboy -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 6:02:44 PM)

While on a carnival theme, I suggest you name your next op "Fun House", since everything will have new perspectives! [sm=00000117.gif]




Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 6:06:44 PM)

I'm thinking John will choose to go on the offensive in China and possibly in Burma, with Ramree Island a possible target. China is a bit fragile for me if he sends a bunch of divisions to concentrate on a narrow front (ala Battle of the Bulge). For now, I'll remain on the defensive in both theaters. I don't want to excite his attention here as I have a particular operation planned about four months out.

In the Pacific, I hope John keeps concentrating forward. I think he's somehow managed to significantly reinforce Kwajalein. I'm getting SigIn regarding some further back destinations. For instance, 116th Div. is still prepping for Adak. She was shown two weeks back as aboard marus bound for Ulak (in the Aluetians). But I just received SigInt that it's now bound for Babeldaob.

I'll be watching carefully to see where John deploys his troops over the next month or two. Does he press forward to keep a stiff front line, or does he back off and fill in more?

Now that Death Star outnumbers KB, he'll be wrapping his head around the fact that I can (conceivably) go anywhere on the map and invade in strength. So I think he'll be working hard to fill in key interior bases. And he'd already started working hard on the Marianas after what happened in the Aluetians.




Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 6:07:29 PM)

BBFanboy, I forgot to mention that the invasion of Wake Island has been dubbed Operation Trapeze.




Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 7:01:27 PM)

I'm checking over aircraft and pilot numbers in the carrier squadrons.

Hellcat numbers are fine. SBDs and TBFs are trashed mostly, though a few ships still have nearly complete squadrons. I've transferred one SBD and one TBF squadron to Midway to begin the replacement process (replacing lost aircraft so that the squadrons can rejoin the carriers ASAP). I think I can get enough aircraft up and running to permit a quick turn around. In fact, were it not for the need to replenish sorties and torps, I'd probably leave Death Star at sea while only the DDs and CAs replenished ammo.

Pilot numbers seem fine. For instance, one big SBD5 squadron is down from 36 planes to 9, but still has 31 pilots.






witpqs -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 7:03:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

BBFanboy, I forgot to mention that the invasion of Wake Island has been dubbed Operation Trapeze.

But where are the clowns? Send in the clowns!




Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 7:04:18 PM)

I wanted to use Bearded Lady, but it's just too clunky.




Mike McCreery -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 7:04:56 PM)

Leprechaun...

Cause you can never catch those guys!!!




Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 7:06:16 PM)

I refuse to use "Mime."




Flicker -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 7:06:30 PM)

I'm not too clear on this mod's OOB, but it seems that steroid KB may now be just KB (which is something I'm skeered of running into). Even though John lost many planes, doesn't he have the capacity to replace them rather quickly, so that much of KB may be available at full-strength fairly soon?

I'm certain that Operation Trapeze will be well-planned, however I recommend a visit to Trappeze Pub in Athens to ponder the operation more deeply.




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 7:08:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

While on a carnival theme, I suggest you name your next op "Fun House", since everything will have new perspectives! [sm=00000117.gif]


"Clown Car."




jwolf -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 7:11:43 PM)

quote:

And I have time to quickly replenish some of the smaller combat vessels at Midway, where I'll also see if the carriers can replenish sorties and possibly replace some lost aircaft.


In my game I just replenished two carriers at Palmyra with an AKE so I'm pretty sure you'll be able to do it at Midway. Don't know about replacing planes, though. Looks like good news on your pilots.




Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 7:22:45 PM)

"Fez"

"Shriner"

"Peep Show"

"Ziegreid & Roy"




Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 7:26:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flicker
I'm not too clear on this mod's OOB, but it seems that steroid KB may now be just KB (which is something I'm skeered of running into). Even though John lost many planes, doesn't he have the capacity to replace them rather quickly, so that much of KB may be available at full-strength fairly soon?

I'm certain that Operation Trapeze will be well-planned, however I recommend a visit to Trappeze Pub in Athens to ponder the operation more deeply.


Thanks to fog of war, I don't know exactly what was sunk, but I do know that KB can't take on Death Star anytime soon (unless KB teamed up with big LBA).

I can predict with some accuracy that John lost 9 to 15 carriers, mostly CVE but some decent decks. If the number is less than 15, the others are badly damaged and will need months in the yards.

Meantime, the Allies will be down Ent and Hornet (most of their damage is SYS, so I think they'll repair very quickly). But those two will be replaced immediately by Bunker Hill, Cowpens and three CVE.

So if I felt comfortable committing Death Star against Steroid KB and Mini KB, you know I"ll feel the same about committing Death Star against Trimmed KB.




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 7:28:30 PM)

Maybe "Brazilianed KB"?

"Wax Job" KB?




poodlebrain -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 7:54:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'm checking over aircraft and pilot numbers in the carrier squadrons.

Hellcat numbers are fine. SBDs and TBFs are trashed mostly, though a few ships still have nearly complete squadrons. I've transferred one SBD and one TBF squadron to Midway to begin the replacement process (replacing lost aircraft so that the squadrons can rejoin the carriers ASAP). I think I can get enough aircraft up and running to permit a quick turn around. In fact, were it not for the need to replenish sorties and torps, I'd probably leave Death Star at sea while only the DDs and CAs replenished ammo.

Pilot numbers seem fine. For instance, one big SBD5 squadron is down from 36 planes to 9, but still has 31 pilots.



You haven't had much combat use for your 4EB recently. I assume they've been busy training. Can you give us an update on their readiness to return to action? You should have some pretty well skilled and experienced pilots to fly them.




Encircled -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 8:09:13 PM)

"Emasculated KB" too much?




AcePylut -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/19/2016 8:23:09 PM)

Much like the real battle of Midway came down to the CA-Tone “not” launching it’s floatplanes 30 minutes earlier had such a dramatic effect on the battle, it seems as if this Clash of CV’s came down to a very similar decision wherein the US launched it’s search floatplanes at night.

I must ask, Canoerebel, when you clicked on “night operations” for those floatplane searches – did you ever in your mind think that THAT might have been the “one mouseclick difference” between success and utter failure? Over all the agonizing you did over the decision to give battle – did THAT decision ever enter your mind?

I ask because it seems like in every “tide turning battle” in every war fought, it’s often the seemingly insignificant decision that changes the course of history.

I said something similar to this in John’s AAR – but imagine how the course of the Civil War may have been different, and thus US history, had Chamberlain not given the famous order to “fix bayonets”.




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