RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (Full Version)

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Lowpe -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 2:41:47 PM)
I love the mixing up of the attack orders. Here is one for you: Set one of the 60 ARM units to Reserve (Pursuit). They would follow into Manila. Japan would see one unit all by its lonesome in Manila and attack. The following day race all the other Armored units in using Reserve (no pursuit) mode. Instead of fighting one unit, he attacks 5 armored units in x2 terrain that you have pretty decent prep for.

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 2:53:22 PM)
Here are the reserves coming up from Lucena - not all of them - a couple are hanging back, one to await important fragments of the division and one to provide security in the rear against enemy surprise attack. Lowpe, your idea is an elegant one that I hope to keep in mind. I probably wouldn't have done it on this occasion lest I end up skewering my armor by trying to be elegant. In this case, I know that John's in big trouble, so I can simply bring the hammer. But there could be many times where your idea would really work nicely. [image]local://upfiles/8143/4693A119064848639C11DFD66679EE00.jpg[/image]

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 2:56:42 PM)
I'm about to run the 6/11/44 turn, but a few important tidbits. Here's the landing at Miri, which goes off well although the Australian disablements are higher than I'd hoped for. But I'm posting this mainly to show the number of enemy AA units present in this hex. Lots of AA, little infantry. John attended to his oil centers but left his army on Luzon without AA. Trade-off. Ground combat at Miri (64,87) Japanese Bombardment attack Attacking force 891 troops, 38 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 71 Defending force 4440 troops, 145 guns, 43 vehicles, Assault Value = 156 Assaulting units: 57th Infantry Bde /1 42nd Air Defense AA Regiment 65th Field AA Battalion 6th JNAF Coy 41st Air Defense AA Regiment 62nd Field AA Battalion 8th JNAF Coy Defending units: 6th Australian Div /27

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 2:57:55 PM)
And the Battle of Batangas results: Ground combat at Batangas (79,78) Allied Shock attack Attacking force 53833 troops, 972 guns, 1450 vehicles, Assault Value = 1826 Defending force 43055 troops, 457 guns, 175 vehicles, Assault Value = 1125 Allied adjusted assault: 1377 Japanese adjusted defense: 178 Allied assault odds: 7 to 1 (fort level 2) Allied forces CAPTURE Batangas !!! Combat modifiers Defender: disruption(-), preparation(-), experience(-) Attacker: shock(+) Japanese ground losses: 14946 casualties reported Squads: 531 destroyed, 113 disabled Non Combat: 629 destroyed, 6 disabled Engineers: 255 destroyed, 2 disabled Guns lost 228 (212 destroyed, 16 disabled) Vehicles lost 172 (172 destroyed, 0 disabled) Units retreated 7 Allied ground losses: 1184 casualties reported Squads: 6 destroyed, 86 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 29 disabled Engineers: 21 destroyed, 27 disabled Guns lost 19 (1 destroyed, 18 disabled) Vehicles lost 50 (3 destroyed, 47 disabled) Defeated Japanese Units Retreating! Assaulting units: 131st Combat Engineer Regiment 6th Infantry Division 637th Tank Destroyer Battalion 5th USMC Tank Battalion 93rd Infantry Division 767th Tank Battalion 2nd USMC Amphb Tank Battalion 43rd Infantry Division 2nd Marine Division 766th Tank Battalion 3rd NZ Armoured Sqn Regiment 209th Field Artillery Battalion 7th USMC Field Artillery Battalion 2nd USMC Field Artillery Battalion 181st Field Artillery Regiment XI US Corps 1st Medium Regiment Defending units: 15th Division 21st Division 19th Division 48th Division 8th Engineer Regiment 3rd Ind. Engineer Regiment 19th Ind. Engr Rgt /1

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 3:01:53 PM)
Those four divisions are beat up, especially in terms of guns lost. That makes at least 11 Japanese divisions roughed up in 1944 campaigning: these four, five in Burma, 16th in the DEI, and 56th in the Marshalls and Leyte. As best I can tell, John only has one fresh division (24th) on Luzon plus some mixed brigades and other stuff. He can still fight hard, but Batangas means the campaign is off to a promising start on a campaign I originally expected to last until September.

Lowpe -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 3:20:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel I'm about to run the 6/11/44 turn, but a few important tidbits. Here's the landing at Miri, which goes off well although the Australian disablements are higher than I'd hoped for. But I'm posting this mainly to show the number of enemy AA units present in this hex. Lots of AA, little infantry. John attended to his oil centers but left his army on Luzon without AA. Trade-off. Ground combat at Miri (64,87) Japanese Bombardment attack Attacking force 891 troops, 38 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 71 Defending force 4440 troops, 145 guns, 43 vehicles, Assault Value = 156 Assaulting units: 57th Infantry Bde /1 42nd Air Defense AA Regiment 65th Field AA Battalion 6th JNAF Coy 41st Air Defense AA Regiment 62nd Field AA Battalion 8th JNAF Coy Defending units: 6th Australian Div /27 That is not a lot of AA. Japan has gotten large amounts of AA around the time you get B29s. 10 AA units would be a better number...luckily for Japan they will respawn in 20-30 days at Tokyo and fill out in 2 weeks.

jwolf -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 3:40:54 PM)
Congratulations on the great result at Batangas -- that looks like the equivalent of a full division destroyed. [X(] Now, for a rookie question on the multiple attack you ordered there. Since the shock attack was so successful, I assume the followup deliberate attack was called off? Or did those units get lumped into the shock attack, but not shocking? I'm confused because when you order a DA and you have arty, they get coded to bombard which is done as part of the DA. But can you really have two separate ground attacks in the same hex, same turn?

witpqs -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 3:48:25 PM)
Good going! AFAIK, all units attack at once but with different orders.

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 3:55:26 PM)
John doesn't seem to have any AA on Luzon, so where is it all?

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 3:59:51 PM)
That was 2,000 points for the Japanese units destroyed at Batangas - by far the biggest score in the game for the Allies. I have a long, long way to go in the ground war, but the score is 23.5k for Japan to 6.6k for the Allies. At the start of '44, I think it was 21.5k to 3.3k. I doubt I'll ever even out that ratio, but getting it close is important in the overall scheme of things.

Encircled -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 4:07:48 PM)
Are you expecting another rant about the power of 4Es in the ground attack role? I can't believe he's tried to hold there without an AA. I can't believe he's tried to hold there full stop to be honest.

paullus99 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 4:25:57 PM)
It is puzzling....John just doesn't seem to understand the power of massed allied air at this point in the game. The lack of AA is just appalling. That's just criminal, not to mention that he seems to have far fewer fighters than he should, in the area, if he was serious about trying to hold anything. His troops are also highly unlikely to hold against massed allied infantry and tanks, as well, given the disparity in quality. I am of the opinion that he really just doesn't know how the play the endgame, especially without an overwhelming navy to use as a club or hammer.

Lecivius -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 4:29:04 PM)
I agree, John has not played a game to end game. But this is a learning curve for him. "Appalling" and "Criminal" are pretty hard words [:'(] Let's see how this plays out. We all had to learn the hard way [;)]

paullus99 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 5:02:53 PM)
True - those are harsh words, but anyone who has had experience on the receiving end of the Allied Juggernaut in the end game realizes that defense, fighters, forts, and plenty of AA is mandatory to make a true stand. At this point, John has suffered a series of tactical, operational, and strategic defeats which are really going to hamper his ability to protect the HI over the coming months of game play.

aleajactaest10044 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 5:15:48 PM)
Good show, its nice to see real life results occurring on the ground at this stage of the war.

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 5:25:01 PM)
One of the original objectives of the Luzon campaign was to draw a Japanese army, to beat it up. This was discussed eight or nine months ago in the AAR. At the time, I knew the Japanese army had barely been touched in the game. A time would come when I'd have to address that head on. At the time, I didn't figure John would get so messed up in Burma. That was just a bonus. But I did think Luzon would be the place to take on his army. That's one reason I estimated the campaign would take from April until September '44. There's a chance now that the Allies can blast through Manila, though probably less than 50%. John has the advantage of good terrain, where my bombers will be considerably less effective. He can also bring in some infantry units that haven't been mauled - probably one division and several mixed brigades. And he'll almost surely ship in reinforcements before I can impose a blockade (that's at least two weeks away). I probably have one advantage - preparation percentage for my army. I'm going to give the taking of Manila the old college try, but I think John will stabilize for just awhile. And that's not such a bad thing - sucking in additional infantry while the Allies build new airfields close to Manila and prepare to receive all kinds of replacements and reinforcements coming in from the Pacific. Luzon is a bad place for John at the moment. It could get much worse before the month is over.

witpqs -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 5:47:30 PM)
I figure John is just not used to the power of Allied air at this stage of the game. He might also be placing defenses farther back with those assets so they are ready when you get there.

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 6:19:04 PM)
I do think he focused on preparing the Home Islands for B29s. Multiple SigInt reports of hundreds (sometimes 500) aircraft at HI bases. He probably has lots of AA there too. He was prepared for a strategic bombing campaign but I've deferred to tactical bombing. That'll evolve over time, but right now I prefer not to use the Superforts at extended range.

witpqs -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 6:46:12 PM)
A wise move. If he's got better than historical pilots at this point (and he certainly does!) then the superforts would take much greater than historical losses.

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 9:23:04 PM)
6/11/44 See map for details. [image]local://upfiles/8143/21465ECC32324B218972A126BEEFE563.jpg[/image]

HansBolter -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 9:29:29 PM)
I swear there is some kind of movement glitch associated with the jungle rough terrain adjacent to Manila. I have had troops route through it coming and going form Manila and didn't realize it until they had invested several turns of movement into that route.

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 9:30:58 PM)
For those relatively new to the game, what's happened over the past three months is an interesting study in how two sides can see things very differently. In March '44, John wiped out Allied resistance on Celebes. On that turn, he sent me an email: "That turn ROCKED." That (as you can probably tell) chapped my rear-end. But moreso, I was nearly certain that John was shortsighted, focusing on Celebes while failing to attend properly to defenses on Luzon and vicinity. Based upon SigInt, base building, sub detection levels, and the give and take of things, I thought the Allies were going to take advantage of John's tunnel vision...and that Luzon would prove that Celebes was actually a strategic loss for him. Still more cards to be played - fate still to swing this way or that - but I feel vindicated in my assessment. John's crowing about Celebes was indeed symptomatic of a larger failure to appreciate his situation. But I won't send him an email: "This turn ROCKED!"

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 10:22:25 PM)
Mini KB, combat TF, and some other good ships on the move in the DEI. [image]local://upfiles/8143/520A8DA9F3054812A6193CF4CF528FF5.jpg[/image]

paullus99 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/23/2017 10:28:12 PM)
It looks like he's protecting his oil convoys.....

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/24/2017 12:02:37 AM)
Lots of SigInt nuggets today. [image]local://upfiles/8143/41D731BC3A934DB39603F21CFF86C37A.jpg[/image]

Grfin Zeppelin -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/24/2017 12:12:53 AM)
It also sadly shows that he does not understand how Japanese flak works.

Lokasenna -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/24/2017 2:40:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gr�fin Zeppelin It also sadly shows that he does not understand how Japanese flak works. Spitballs, right?

Grfin Zeppelin -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/24/2017 9:47:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: Gr�fin Zeppelin It also sadly shows that he does not understand how Japanese flak works. Spitballs, right? Yeah those machinecanons wont do anything in Hamamatsu.They could have done something to Canoes divebombers in the PI tho.

obvert -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/24/2017 10:24:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel One of the original objectives of the Luzon campaign was to draw a Japanese army, to beat it up. This was discussed eight or nine months ago in the AAR. At the time, I knew the Japanese army had barely been touched in the game. A time would come when I'd have to address that head on. At the time, I didn't figure John would get so messed up in Burma. That was just a bonus. But I did think Luzon would be the place to take on his army. That's one reason I estimated the campaign would take from April until September '44. There's a chance now that the Allies can blast through Manila, though probably less than 50%. John has the advantage of good terrain, where my bombers will be considerably less effective. He can also bring in some infantry units that haven't been mauled - probably one division and several mixed brigades. And he'll almost surely ship in reinforcements before I can impose a blockade (that's at least two weeks away). I probably have one advantage - preparation percentage for my army. I'm going to give the taking of Manila the old college try, but I think John will stabilize for just awhile. And that's not such a bad thing - sucking in additional infantry while the Allies build new airfields close to Manila and prepare to receive all kinds of replacements and reinforcements coming in from the Pacific. Luzon is a bad place for John at the moment. It could get much worse before the month is over. The key to getting Manila is blasting his fields into submission and then having free reign on the troops. Even though it's better terrain, hits on the troops and fields will take supply, add fatigue and disruption and if your forces get a few days rest before the battle, the difference will be dramatic.

obvert -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (3/24/2017 10:25:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gr�fin Zeppelin quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: Gr�fin Zeppelin It also sadly shows that he does not understand how Japanese flak works. Spitballs, right? Yeah those machinecanons wont do anything in Hamamatsu.They could have done something to Canoes divebombers in the PI tho. They're good on Okinawa and PI, some of the islands. Or just disband them to save supply. [:)]

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