RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (Full Version)

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Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/5/2017 10:56:10 PM)

I've stepped out in the game: accepting major surface action in Assam in summer '42; invasion Sumatra; invasion Big Tent; offering carrier combat in the Bay of Bengal in late '42; seeking and achieving carrier combat in CenPac in September '43, etc.

How many times have I lulled John into complacency in the game only to bite him in the butt?



MakeeLearn -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/5/2017 10:57:29 PM)

quote:

It is next to impossible to gain a fight if the enemy wishes to avoid one. There's no way John wants to chance Mini KB against Death Star, so the only way a carrier battle happens is if he makes a colossal blunder.


Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

[image]local://upfiles/55056/BF872C5362204134A5099FC3CBC57FA0.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/6/2017 4:05:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I've stepped out in the game: accepting major surface action in Assam in summer '42; invasion Sumatra; invasion Big Tent; offering carrier combat in the Bay of Bengal in late '42; seeking and achieving carrier combat in CenPac in September '43, etc.

How many times have I lulled John into complacency in the game only to bite him in the butt?


You have done a flank speed run attack? Sorry then, my memory of your game is of course very incomplete, plus I think I missed the 43 fight. [sm=00000030.gif]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/6/2017 4:10:22 PM)

I don't think any of the actions I referred to involved flank speed Death Star operations, at least to any significant extent. I may have done so at some point in the game, but I honestly don't recall.

I've done it in the past - in other games - under what I considered the right circumstances. And I'd do it at the end of a long LOC, but only under limited circumstances.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/6/2017 4:15:44 PM)

Trying to figure out when it's "safe" to bring the fleet from Legaspi to Manila.

Does anybody know the answer to this question?

[image]local://upfiles/8143/1DBCF6ECEC6A455EA970BE581FDA96AD.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/6/2017 4:16:46 PM)

I see, said the blind man!

I meant to specifically mean a flank speed deathstar attack, a bolt out of the blue![sm=00000106.gif] If I make a flank speed attack, I am definitely stepping outside of my comfort zone to do one![:D][sm=00000959.gif]

Boy, that is a really horrible sentence. Sorry to have inflicted it on you.[:D]



Lowpe -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/6/2017 4:26:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Trying to figure out when it's "safe" to bring the fleet from Legaspi to Manila.

Does anybody know the answer to this question?

[image]local://upfiles/8143/1DBCF6ECEC6A455EA970BE581FDA96AD.jpg[/image]


I have never seen that unit before to my knowledge. It doesn't show up in my scen 2 game.

I always thought cd guns could fire, even if the base changes hands, but I have never actually seen it. Usually the guns are disrupted/destroyed by losing the base. Usually destroyed.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/6/2017 4:34:13 PM)

I think these coastal gun units are Reluctant Admiral creations. John thinks a lot of them, I believe, but they have done little if any in the game; possibly because I have attacked the targets he expected me to attack: Lunga, Rabaul, Truk, Ponape, Kusaei, Saipan, Tinian, etc.

By the way, I hooted when I read your self-analysis of your sentence. I do the same thing too frequently for words (ha ha).



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/6/2017 4:45:54 PM)

7/18/44

Battle of Bataan: This key base falls on a 2:1 attack. Still 35k enemy troops there. I'm leaving two divisions to deal with those, while two others and the combat engineers make for Manila.

I ended up with four divisions involved in the reduction of Clark Field and this base. One of those has 66% percent disablements; one has about 45% disablements; the other two 25% or less. That's considerable wear and tear.

The least two damaged are slated for some of the opening beachheads for Peep Show, so the wear and tear is a concern.

But Luzon is almost ready to serve as a magnificent base for future Allied operations: big shipyard, big port, big airfields, all in proximity to the enemy heartland.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/92014D90E9BA4361AB891F6269326C69.jpg[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/6/2017 4:54:47 PM)

7/18/44

Battle of Laoag: This base falls, leaving another beleaguered pocket of Japanese troops. 1st Cav. Div. will take care of this pocket, which shouldn't take long.


[image]local://upfiles/8143/A6126D72DEF2436787C6EBD9FE03A3DD.jpg[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/6/2017 5:09:01 PM)

7/18/44

SEAC: Allied army easily takes Ayuthia against tattered remnants of Japanese army. John doesn't seem to be preparing a stand at Bangkok, though he may surprise me. What about Saigon, Cam Ranh Bay, etc?

[image]local://upfiles/8143/0EACBD6AA0744A16ACAA4D52E514196E.jpg[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/6/2017 5:22:07 PM)

7/18/44

Fun House and Peep Show: See map for details.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/9614CF1CD3644A3F9EEDF66A7479686A.jpg[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/6/2017 5:34:20 PM)

7/18/44

Mini KB: Steams to Balikpapan to refuel. I think Lowpe expected this, but I didn't. She'd been there not too long ago, so my thinking was that John was making a run for the Pacific.

Balikpapan is not within flank speed strike range of Legaspi, which John undoubtedly calculated carefully.

Where Mini KB goes from here is key. On spectrum of my comfort with Peep Show: I'll proceed without questions against KB and LBA; I'll have a higher level of worry if John augments KB with either of the Mini KBs.

He still has time to consolidate, but that window is now days rather than weeks.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/075087A23A274382B85283A40AB50553.jpg[/image]



BBfanboy -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/6/2017 6:41:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Trying to figure out when it's "safe" to bring the fleet from Legaspi to Manila.

Does anybody know the answer to this question?

[image]local://upfiles/8143/1DBCF6ECEC6A455EA970BE581FDA96AD.jpg[/image]


I have never seen that unit before to my knowledge. It doesn't show up in my scen 2 game.

I always thought cd guns could fire, even if the base changes hands, but I have never actually seen it. Usually the guns are disrupted/destroyed by losing the base. Usually destroyed.



I have some Japanese units isolated on a peninsula with no base and have been bombarding them. There is one Coastal Gun unit with them and it sometimes shoots back, but ineffectively. No hits yet. I have been knocking out guns and my ships show as firing at the CD unit, so I am guessing it is disrupted.
And if the Bataan units are out of supply, they are not going to fire when they are ejected from the base. There may be a "dry fire" where they go through the motions.



BBfanboy -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/6/2017 6:47:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

7/18/44

SEAC: Allied army easily takes Ayuthia against tattered remnants of Japanese army. John doesn't seem to be preparing a stand at Bangkok, though he may surprise me. What about Saigon, Cam Ranh Bay, etc?



Bangkok is somewhat isolated because the Japanese control both sides of the bay leading up to it - no shipping in supply there. Getting supply overland from Tavoy (nearest place) is not sufficient to maintain an big air base or heavy ground ops. You may be able to airlift in some supply once you have Bangkok.



Lowpe -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/6/2017 8:51:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

7/18/44

Mini KB: Steams to Balikpapan to refuel. I think Lowpe expected this, but I didn't.



Good, I am glad I didn't say anymore than I did then.[:)] When I typed out the post originally I did have it in, and then edited it out feeling that it was too much information & you seemed to have a slightly different take on what those ships were up to. They still might be up to continuing on around Borneo or to Davao or back to Java area.

I suspect the mini enhanced KB will be there tomorrow too. I didn't count hexes because you could have moved the deathstar SW to Cebu area and disbanded during the night movement, and made a full speed run today to put you well within striking distance of Balikpapen.

Do you know the fighter count at Balikpapen? I am curious.








Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/6/2017 10:35:31 PM)

John's best vector of egress for Mini KB will be through the Makassar Strait. That, plus the fact that he'd already fueled relatively recently, led me to believe that's what might be happening. If I had sent Death Star steaming, I'd have been wasting fuel, because my analysis was off the mark.

John usually posts about 70 fighters at Balikpapan; he probably has more there right now.

I have only one recon squadron operating in the DEI, cycling between a number of bases including that one. All the rest is working Formosa and the islands to the NE. I need that information...both for my purposes and to lead John to certain conclusions, I hope. Once Peep Show is underway, I'll recommit some recon squadrons to the DEI.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/6/2017 10:37:54 PM)

John never used Bangkok as a major base; I don't expect to either. As you noted, supply will be an issue. But the city was important for two reasons: (1) John could've stood firm here by bringing in enough supply and fighters to give me fits, fighting as I am with tuckered-out units at the end of a lengthy LOC; and (2) this further segments John's overland supply line to China.

I keep thinking that the Allied interdiction of the IJ supply line up the SEA coastline must be a big deal, but John has totally ignored it as if it wasn't. Either he has supply and fuel out the wazoo stockpiled in Japan or he's not paying attention to this.



Lowpe -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/7/2017 12:17:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

John's best vector of egress for Mini KB will be through the Makassar Strait. That, plus the fact that he'd already fueled relatively recently, led me to believe that's what might be happening. If I had sent Death Star steaming, I'd have been wasting fuel, because my analysis was off the mark.




Lesson: don't trust the peanut gallery![:)]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/7/2017 8:35:24 PM)

7/19/44

In and around the South China Sea: See map for details.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/402859CCE876460DAD9030550F26DD42.jpg[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/7/2017 8:47:17 PM)

7/19/44

Fun House & Peep Show: The fleet leaves Legaspi tonight for Manila. What an immense click-fest involved in this move.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/FDC11ABAF5CD45FEB459377809CB0C8A.jpg[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/7/2017 9:08:43 PM)

Nighttime Strategic Bombing

I sent this to John today:

John,

At some point, perhaps soon, I'll initiate nighttime strategic bombing.

My hope is that strategic bombing will prove successful, but if it turns out to too successful, we can address it.  That is to say, if prudent and reasonable defenses don't work so that nighttime strategic bombing is too powerful and non-historic, we'll figure out how to address it.  I doubt that'll be the case, but I don't want a nerfed element to unhinge the game.

We've reached an interesting, taut, tense part of the game.  It's a lot of fun.  :)

Dan



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/7/2017 9:27:55 PM)

Air War Games

There's a lot going on in the air war right now, as preparations for Peep Show continue.

Japanese fighters downed a bunch of TBFs and SBDs over Ternate today and tangled with some Liberators and Mitchells over Port Moresby. I lost something like 60 of those single-engine bombers, more than I had planned to. But hidden in the number of planes lost is that the Japanese lost considerably more fighters than the Allies did. I'm trying to give John targets that have some teeth, though today I gave him far more than I intended to.

I'm giving a lot of attention to where my best fighter groups are and where they need to be; some fighter squadrons in remote areas are downgrading to lesser aircraft to add good aircraft to the pools; and the pilot pools are being cherry-picked for the best pilots forward.

Aparri airfield goes to level eight tomorrow. I think at eight, aviation support is doubled (if not, then at level 9, which the base should reach in a week or so). If so, Aparri will be able to hold roughly 350 aircraft tomorrow, and about 530 in two or three days, with more support units inbound.

Aparri will be the major fighter base. Manila, a level nine airfield, will handle most of the 4EB.

I'll be stripping most of the aviation support units from Naga and Legaspi now, sending them to Manila. Some of these are destined for Peep Show, as I've got to find enough units to handle any new bases taken during that op. I have plenty of engineer units to build new fields, but not enough aviation support.



ny59giants -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/7/2017 10:04:38 PM)

Night Bombing - If this has been off for most of the war and John hasn't been producing any NFs, then he cannot just decide to start producing them right away. You have been safe in ports for months as he hasn't had the option to hit all your disbanded ships at places like Legaspi. I don't know if I would agree to do so without a significant amount of time to get his production going.



Bullwinkle58 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/7/2017 10:22:31 PM)

Re "historic" night strategic bombing. There isn't any such thing in the game since Japan flies on rice balls and trains pilots on rice balls. His air defenses over the HI will be orders of magnitude better than history. He'll probably carp, but he has no cause to.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/7/2017 11:15:51 PM)

Let's see what he says. I told him long ago, from the outset, that the time would come for strategic night bombing of a historical nature. So he's known.

Our house rule was to prevent either side from port bombing or airfield bombing out of concerns the feature was nerfed. Both of us abided by that.



Lowpe -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/7/2017 11:36:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Re "historic" night strategic bombing. There isn't any such thing in the game since Japan flies on rice balls and trains pilots on rice balls. His air defenses over the HI will be orders of magnitude better than history. He'll probably carp, but he has no cause to.



I understand what you are saying...but there are only 21 squadrons eligible to fly night fighters. If he didn't prepare for it, upgraded those squadrons away from the night fighter tree, allocate 300 planes a month production to night fighters plus their engines, he will be savaged at night.

7/44 Japan has the IrvingS and Nick D, and that is it. Not all 21 squadrons are available for NF duty as some convert only over to Dinah NF, etc. Other squadrons get withdrawn.

If he has ignored this aspect of the game, it will take 3 months and 300,000 supplies (plus supply for engines) to prepare for a strategic night bombing campaign with just the basic Japanese night fighters and that assumes no damage done to the night fighter factories.

If Japan hasn't built up pools of night fighters, it would be fairly easy to target those factories early. They can even be inadvertently destroyed by fires or their engines. Nick D takes a funky engine for example.

I don't know any of the answers to what John's understanding of the agreement is/was or what his preparation are for a night campaign. But I think it is an area to tread carefully and thoughtfully.








Bullwinkle58 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/8/2017 12:24:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Re "historic" night strategic bombing. There isn't any such thing in the game since Japan flies on rice balls and trains pilots on rice balls. His air defenses over the HI will be orders of magnitude better than history. He'll probably carp, but he has no cause to.



I understand what you are saying...but there are only 21 squadrons eligible to fly night fighters. If he didn't prepare for it, upgraded those squadrons away from the night fighter tree, allocate 300 planes a month production to night fighters plus their engines, he will be savaged at night.

7/44 Japan has the IrvingS and Nick D, and that is it. Not all 21 squadrons are available for NF duty as some convert only over to Dinah NF, etc. Other squadrons get withdrawn.

If he has ignored this aspect of the game, it will take 3 months and 300,000 supplies (plus supply for engines) to prepare for a strategic night bombing campaign with just the basic Japanese night fighters and that assumes no damage done to the night fighter factories.

If Japan hasn't built up pools of night fighters, it would be fairly easy to target those factories early. They can even be inadvertently destroyed by fires or their engines. Nick D takes a funky engine for example.

I don't know any of the answers to what John's understanding of the agreement is/was or what his preparation are for a night campaign. But I think it is an area to tread carefully and thoughtfully.



I guess my macro answer is "waaaaaah!"

The entire Allied OOB is predicated on events that don't happen in any game, from Midway on. John had the option to max or min his NF R&D. CR gets the B-29s he gets, when he gets them.

Any HR preventing night strategic bombing is the most massive VP nerf possible under the game engine. You know very well it's many tens of thousands of VPs. It's the only way most Allied players ever get close to the auto-vic they must have under the game design to win the game.

From reading both sides, my take-away on John's attitude on night bombing is mostly "I don't get any 4Es, so you shouldn't get to use yours."

Night Manpower bombing is different in every way from night AF or port bombing. It happened. Cities are easy to find. And they burn.

Finally, at this date, CR has very few B-29 units. He has no P-51Ds. John should be able to deal, with day-fighters if need be. If he doesn't like it he should have kept CR out of range longer. He's been out-played, and it's time to pay the piper.



Lowpe -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/8/2017 12:50:39 AM)

I hear you...


Personally, I think night actions are one of the more fascinating challenges in the game for both sides. Sure they can be gamed, but I do think there are counters available other than carping and house rules.

All I am saying is use a little empathy here.






Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (5/8/2017 1:47:11 AM)

John's Reply: "I have not produced ANY Night fighters knowing we had excluded that.  If you are thinking about it then I need to shift from a one dimensional defense.  Barring that slaughter of B-29s over Singers your 4EB have been pretty close to invulnerable…"

That's on him, because I made it clear in my emails. But he's forgotten, and I'm not willing to see the game derailed because of it. So no night strategic bombing.

My email to him: "When we agreed to no night bombing of airfields or ports, I specifically said I'd do night strategic bombing when the time came.  I mentioned that in multiple emails, making it clear that we would make sure it wasn't nerfed in some way.

"But let's just forget it.  No night bombing of any kind, now or ever."

That's pretty radical and is a huge concession, but we'll just see how it works.







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