RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (Full Version)

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Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/2/2017 2:00:58 PM)

My biggest challenge right now is managing supply - not from the aspect of John's shenanigans but from juggling China.

I have 500k supply on Formosa and 300k on Luzon. I've been feeding some of this to coastal China to fund air ops out of Ningpo, but it gets sucked down fast. So I'm going to have to prioritize in complicated, convoluted ways that are interesting to me and perhaps to logistics buffs the world over, all six of them.

My highest priority right now is the pending invasion of Korea. I probably want to bring 150k supply with me, as a down payment on what will come in later. That should be enough to handle the invasion and perhaps a little expansion. It won't be enough to handle air ops early on, at least on a large scale. But that'll be a priority later, when the next slug comes in.

I'll also need a bit of supply for the Hainan Island invasion. Not much, because I plan to withdraw all my troops once the island is secure. John probably doesn't have much there, and what he does have will be at the mercy of Allied air.

Anyway, to fund these invasion and other routine activities, I'm going to dial down the bombing campaign a good bit for the next few weeks.

Overland flow of supply through China is definitely adequate for ground unit operations. It doesn't look like it will be sufficient to handle air ops. I'd rather not drop supply into China to fund air ops, because it'll have a tendency to flow away to all manner of places. Korea will be much more efficient, because I'll have a bridgehead that will "contain" my supply - not allow it to migrate. So Korea will definitely become the focal point of the air war, going forward.

I'll set up LST convoys from Saigon/Bangkok up to China. That's why I want Hainan Island - that's the last holdout for John anywhere along the route. With that gone, there will be good security.

Finally, as mentioned above, I may shift my main LOC from the Pacific to the Indian Ocean, if John gets too boisterous.

I think we're heading towards a crescendo of events - from both sides.



MakeeLearn -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/2/2017 2:27:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel



I think we're heading towards a crescendo of events - from both sides.



COWBELL SOLO!!!!





[image]local://upfiles/55056/B0A44F674E764F178226B4CB42B5B6D9.jpg[/image]



BillBrown -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/2/2017 2:52:10 PM)

We need more COWBELL



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/2/2017 3:24:56 PM)

From John: "You know…IF you had gone from your lodgement in China direct to the Home Islands this game would be over.  Now, they are starting to look tougher and tougher."

He likes to drop comments like that every now and then.

What I want to ask him, but won't: You mean you should have lost more quickly than you are losing?

 



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/2/2017 6:07:43 PM)

1/23/45

KB East: John's grand tour of SoPac may be winding down....but that's what I thought a week ago.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/C8DF007A46B1466F8B173D8B434E65C2.jpg[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/2/2017 6:22:12 PM)

1/23/45

Timor: Allies are working a little op to get a lodgment on Timor and working a big op to get supply from Oz to Boela. John is trying to choke this by choking the Gulf of Carpentaria. He knows he's going to have to commit much more in a massive campaign, and I think he just might.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/83CAE243EB9F4867AF1B7BCDDC841A7E.jpg[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/2/2017 6:32:54 PM)

1/23/45

Andaman Sea: Allies working several little angles here, hoping to one day approach Singapore...and hoping that perhaps the war won't last that long.


[image]local://upfiles/8143/16811D3E18F1486C8607829FF880D940.jpg[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/2/2017 6:50:06 PM)

1/23/45

Fancy Pants: The Japanese army in China appears on the verge of collapse.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/F06CA643F19441069F6D35BFFA8F0281.jpg[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/2/2017 9:22:20 PM)

1/24/45

Fancy Pants: Allies take Kukong. Breakout into the plains continues. With supply flush, probing deliberate attacks at Hong Kong and Canton, tomorrow. The latter gives me a bit of trepidation.

A mass of enemy carriers is at the northern end of the Makassar Strait showing a NE heading. Will they continue or will John have second thoughts, given recent Allied moves against Timor and the Andamans?

Does he really have his eye on SoPac or are his carriers homeward bound to serve as guardsmen? I dunno but I have to allow for both plus other possibilities.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/878F924CC83C4E80983B6AAA5A09DEA1.jpg[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/2/2017 9:33:05 PM)

1/24/45

DEI: Lots of enemy carriers egressing....but will they really leave? I should know tomorrow.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/571E43292A21499C809F5417CF91C8A8.jpg[/image]



BBfanboy -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/2/2017 9:46:28 PM)

What's John's D/L on Manila? Could he know you have a carrier there? That might point to a big raid on Manila.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/2/2017 9:52:47 PM)

1/24/45

KB East and Fiji: John's carriers seem to be retiring.

I think he's probably most interested in Fiji, if he's looking to SoPac at all. But the advance reinforcements begin landing tomorrow, so his window will close quickly.

He sees what's going on - his Glen is picking up everything. There's a chance this will dissuade him from going through with this. But I doubt it.



[image]local://upfiles/8143/1FC2589B33474938B421AA31C5F9D7C4.jpg[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/2/2017 9:54:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
What's John's D/L on Manila? Could he know you have a carrier there? That might point to a big raid on Manila.


He hasn't had detection on Manila in months, I think. But Manila is well defended - 420 fighters providing CAP plus lots of Night Fighters.

Right now, my main ports getting lots of fighters: Boela, Manila, Taichu, Foochow and Ningpo. Shanghai will soon join the list.



MakeeLearn -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/3/2017 2:02:29 PM)


How good is Allied SigInt at this point in war?



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/3/2017 2:15:53 PM)

You get just as much SigInt. On average, the relevance of any given report is greater since John has comparatively fewer bases. On average, the info is less helpful, since the Allies control so much of things and can really simply chose where and when to go. At this late stage, I don't need most of the info I'm getting because the Allied forces are a juggernaut. I really don't need much SigInt to handle the Allied armies moving north through the coastal plain.

Still, SigInt can be very helpful. Last week there was a report of an enemy infantry unit aboard a maru inbound to coastal China city. That resulted in a Death Star raid into the Yellow Sea that sank a bunch of merchants and took out a good bit of that infantry unit. And yesterday came a report that 56th Div. is aboard a maru bound for Fusan, Korea. And it's been SigInt reports of base forces inbound to Tagula Island and Lunga that really got me to thinking about what John might be up to in SoPac. That's been key (unless it a masterful deception).

So the SigInt game is still meaningful but on a lesser scale than earlier in the war.



Flicker -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/3/2017 5:17:51 PM)

CR - sorry about the paratroopers at Hwaiyin, guess it wasn't the way in after all. Were the forces there dug in, or did the paras even get to recon forts? I 'd like to know if his troops were planned or just passing through. L'audace, though. You could have had a blocking force on the Jiangsu peninsula.

I think that for a Chinese plains approach that the northern / western railway (Chengchow) would be preferred. There are plenty of supply producing cities that way (Loyang, Tsiaotso).

As for an amphibious op, have you considered Antung? It's in Manchukuo with access to Port Arthur, the prize city of Mukden (900 points), and Korea (the hex SE is a major crossroads).

Good game. Pleased that John is keeping it interesting.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/3/2017 7:15:18 PM)

Flicker, I think many months ago John posted small infantry units at dot bases. He was alert to the possibilities. I had previously (months ago) reconned dot hexes for possibilities without finding any.

The Allies will move up the main railroad in the coastal plain because its the quickest way to Manchuria and Korea. I think that's a flanking move that forces John to pull off him MLR to the interior, which then allows the Chinese units on that MLR to advance and handle the big base in the interior. So the objective includes all of China eventually, but the priority is to advance as hard and fast as possible.

Yes, I've considered Antung and several other bases. My preference is Genzan because I have a big army 100% prepped and because it provides a potential for a big base closest to Japan. But I'll divert if a need arises.





Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/3/2017 7:17:03 PM)

1/25/45

SigInt: An example of how SigInt can help paint a picture (or mislead, if I misinterpret). But I think this is good info and the interpretation on target.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/4E9295529A01451F92FC95F53884C2BB.jpg[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/3/2017 10:48:34 PM)

1/25/45

Malaya: Making progress - but slowly - down the peninsula. Making progress - fastly - in the Andamans and Nicobars due to "catcher's indifference" and paratroops.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/C87F2A508E8544E8BDDF30F0EFD9CAF4.jpg[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/3/2017 11:16:27 PM)

1/25/45

Fancy Pants: Canton is going to be tough, so I'm going to concentrate on Hong Kong, which is weakly defended.

The spearhead is breaking into the plains well.

Loading has commenced for the Korea invasion.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/5568AC16CFE44B5F8AB8275344A1F288.jpg[/image]



Dirtnap86 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/3/2017 11:53:17 PM)

A few pages back, you had a naval encounter that the DE John C Butler participated in. That set off a faint remembering and I took to wikipedia to look her up.

Lead ship of her class, in the real war, she was part of the 'Last Stand of the Tin Cans' aka the Battle off Samar where Taffy-3 faced down the Center Force and sent them packing. She survived the war and eventually was used as a training ship during Korea to get reservists up to speed and then later as a Sonar trainer.

She was placed in reserve in 1957 and was sunk as a target in 1971.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/4/2017 12:03:13 AM)

This crazy wonderful game has the ability to tweak our memories and curiosities. Thanks for sharing about the John C. Butler. I hope she wasn't one of the eight DEs sunk at Pago Pago...but if she was, that was an end comparable to the Battle of Samar.

Every time I see the USS Gambier Bay in the game, I think of author Vereen Bell. He was a South Georgians who wrote the best-selling novel Swamp Water. It was turned into a hit movie in the 1930s. I think it starred Fess Parker or somesuch famous folks. Anyway, Bell was on the Gambier Bay. I think he served as a spotter in an Avenger recon plane. He was KIA when the Gambier Bay was sunk in the Battle of Letye Gulf. There are terrific photos of her under fire from an enemy cruiser.




Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/4/2017 12:05:45 AM)

I've always viewed this photo with a touch of awe and a great deal of sadness. Gambier Bay taking fire from an IJN cruiser. She's going down.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/9A57C25B6CB74E29B2F388BEB5646A78.jpg[/image]



MakeeLearn -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/4/2017 12:22:17 AM)

"Escort carrier USS Gambier Bay was the only US carrier sunk by gunfire in WW2: she is shown under fire by a Japanese heavy cruiser (circled) off Samar in October 1944: a rare instance of opposing vessels appearing in the same photo. In the foreground aircrew from sister USS Kitkun Bay hurriedly scramble."

[image]local://upfiles/55056/3CD67B1C05C7408CAECDEFB545C1576F.jpg[/image]



jwolf -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/4/2017 12:22:53 AM)

Re Port Blair -- I would think the strategic value of taking the airfield greatly outweighs the modest number of points either side could claim for this base.

I really enjoy seeing the China campaign unfold, and the forthcoming Korea op has me on the edge of my seat! Kudos to both of you for a great game.



Dirtnap86 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/4/2017 12:28:51 AM)

Yep. She was sunk by shell fire from the Chikuma and two other cruisers (likely Tone and Choukai). When the Center Force started firing, she was the closest one to that task force, ergo she was the first one targeted.

At one point Johnston tried to relieve her, via smoke and harassing the cruisers targeting her, but was unsuccessful. 800 of her crew survived, mostly rescued by LSTs and PTs from Leyte.

She was the 19th ship launched from the Kaiser Shipyards and the last Casablanca Class escort carrier. She has the distinction of being the only US Carrier sunk by gunfire during WW2.

Also you can tell by the size of those big shell splashes that Yamato was firing at her as well.

[image]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/USS_Gambier_Bay_on_fire.jpg[/image]
On the right is the old Hotel herself.



MakeeLearn -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/4/2017 12:33:26 AM)



I had 2 ancestors at Leyte Gulf. One, at 14 years old, had run away and joined the Navy.



HansBolter -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/4/2017 12:53:14 AM)

CR I was thinking about your breakout into the Chinese plains and was wondering if you had remembered the tactic of putting units, especially armor, in Reserve to exploit the retreats of the tired and battered units you are overrunning.

I realize you have already broken out but, if you haven't been using the technique, think of trying it out if an opportunity presents itself.

It's very effective with armor if you get the enemy units retreating down a major road.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/4/2017 4:01:18 AM)

Re: Port Blair. It probably has little practical significance now beyond the two things I mentioned - victory points and eliminating enemy listening post/sortie point. Port Blair is almost behind my lines now and I can reach John's bases better from other airfields.

Re: Pusruit Mode. I use it when available, including one recent attack in China. But now I've tried to spring my armor into the open to get behind the retreating enemy army. (John will probably use air to slow my armor down, but he hasn't really yet.)



Braedonnal -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (11/4/2017 7:43:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I've always viewed this photo with a touch of awe and a great deal of sadness. Gambier Bay taking fire from an IJN cruiser. She's going down.


I find that the quotes stuck with me more. "Just wait a little longer, boys, we're suckering them into 40-mm range," is the one I will never forget.



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