RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (Full Version)

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Lecivius -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/26/2018 4:43:49 PM)

I put it there, I'll put it here.

It's over?


[image]local://upfiles/26061/2CD8671602FA429DAE0548D17420C501.jpg[/image]



crsutton -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/26/2018 4:50:17 PM)

Thanks for the excellent AAR, Dan.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/26/2018 5:05:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Canoe, before you even *think* of signing off: the last time you used the term "inveterate raider" I first read it as "invertebrate raider" (huh??? [:D]).

I hereby call for a session of Kangaroo Court of Inquiry into any turns of phrase, alliterations, or any other wordings of Canoerebel's which caused coffee to fly, keyboards to be thereby or otherwise become fouled, either physically, metaphysically, or metaphorically.


Hah! I saw when you posted that earlier, witpqs. I should've replied then. Is "inveterate" one of those words that's too obscure for use today? Or is it a term ye forumites know well? I don't use it often, but it's great under the right circumstances, as here.

Another perfect word only to be used rarely: perturbations. :)

Rick Atkinson uses some magnificent words in his Liberation Trilogy. Some I know; some I don't. But I never get the feeling he's being obtuse or unclear or too smart for his own good. I get the feel that the words were impeccably selected to suit a perfect need. It makes me want to look the words up instead of throw the book into the trash. That's good writing!



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/26/2018 5:06:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Thanks for the excellent AAR, Dan.


Thanks, Ross, for reading along since the beginning. Your insights and prognostications always seem dead on target. You are a quiet soul, but you have my complete attention.



DW -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/26/2018 5:25:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

It's hard for me to follow multiple games, too, DW.

Right now, Obvert vs. Lowpe has to be the "go to" game. Weird stuff going on as two exceptional players duke it out.


Thanks. I'll check it out.



witpqs -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/26/2018 5:29:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Canoe, before you even *think* of signing off: the last time you used the term "inveterate raider" I first read it as "invertebrate raider" (huh??? [:D]).

I hereby call for a session of Kangaroo Court of Inquiry into any turns of phrase, alliterations, or any other wordings of Canoerebel's which caused coffee to fly, keyboards to be thereby or otherwise become fouled, either physically, metaphysically, or metaphorically.


Hah! I saw when you posted that earlier, witpqs. I should've replied then. Is "inveterate" one of those words that's too obscure for use today? Or is it a term ye forumites know well? I don't use it often, but it's great under the right circumstances, as here.

Another perfect word only to be used rarely: perturbations. :)

Rick Atkinson uses some magnificent words in his Liberation Trilogy. Some I know; some I don't. But I never get the feeling he's being obtuse or unclear or too smart for his own good. I get the feel that the words were impeccably selected to suit a perfect need. It makes me want to look the words up instead of throw the book into the trash. That's good writing!


quote:

Is "inveterate" one of those words that's too obscure for use today?

Heck no!

I think it's fair to say your writing idiom is pretty much an icon around here. And a good one. Refreshing, in fact.

Sometimes, in bleary eyed or short attention-span moments, your wording leads to momentary misreadings with comical effect. You, sir, must be called to account! [:D] [:'(]



anarchyintheuk -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/26/2018 5:33:20 PM)

Hard to remember what I was doing in 2012 when this thing started. Greatly enjoyed the aar and your use of words like inveterate :)



Grollub -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/26/2018 7:48:02 PM)

Thanks for writing a good AAR and fighting it out until the end!

In case you want a shortcut to the Wake Island CV battle then it's here; http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4083640

What am I now supposed to read during my lunch breaks? [:)]



Kitakami -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/26/2018 8:13:48 PM)

Thank you for sharing your side of the struggle. Congratulations on your victory!



Panther Bait -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/26/2018 8:37:04 PM)

Dan,

Thank you for taking the time to share a tremendous game with the members of this site and congrats on the victory.

Mike



obvert -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/26/2018 9:15:49 PM)

Thanks for the great AAR and amazingly fun game. This is one of the classics, and never failed to be interesting. Well done! [&o]

I'll look forward to our continuing endgame, but it'll be strange to not have the community hangout space of your AAR to check every day. [:(]




Mike Dubost -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/27/2018 1:29:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Canoe, before you even *think* of signing off: the last time you used the term "inveterate raider" I first read it as "invertebrate raider" (huh??? [:D]).

I hereby call for a session of Kangaroo Court of Inquiry into any turns of phrase, alliterations, or any other wordings of Canoerebel's which caused coffee to fly, keyboards to be thereby or otherwise become fouled, either physically, metaphysically, or metaphorically.


Hah! I saw when you posted that earlier, witpqs. I should've replied then. Is "inveterate" one of those words that's too obscure for use today? Or is it a term ye forumites know well? I don't use it often, but it's great under the right circumstances, as here.

Another perfect word only to be used rarely: perturbations. :)

Rick Atkinson uses some magnificent words in his Liberation Trilogy. Some I know; some I don't. But I never get the feeling he's being obtuse or unclear or too smart for his own good. I get the feel that the words were impeccably selected to suit a perfect need. It makes me want to look the words up instead of throw the book into the trash. That's good writing!


quote:

Is "inveterate" one of those words that's too obscure for use today?

Heck no!

I think it's fair to say your writing idiom is pretty much an icon around here. And a good one. Refreshing, in fact.

Sometimes, in bleary eyed or short attention-span moments, your wording leads to momentary misreadings with comical effect. You, sir, must be called to account! [:D] [:'(]


I had a very funny instance of something similar at work today. One of my co-workers laughed when he realized that he'd claimed to have evaluated the impact of temperature on a reaction using the erroneous equation instead of the Arrhenius equation.

While I'm here, I would like to add my thanks for the entertaining and enlightening AAR.



Bif1961 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/27/2018 1:41:12 AM)

All good things must come to in. Congrats to you both it was an educational thrill ride.an end. However with one ending another can beg



T Rav -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/27/2018 2:18:41 AM)

CR,

I think BB said it best. Now I have to go read John's!

Thank you for a great ride,
T Rav



CaptBeefheart -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/27/2018 2:38:42 AM)

Kudos to both of you gentlemen for sticking it out and providing some great entertainment for the peanut gallery. This would no doubt go in the Top Five WITP-AE AARs of all time if there were such a thing.

I'm going to head over to do a more thorough read of Lowpe and Obvert's epic struggle. I also like Apbarog's AAR for some interesting anti-Sir Robin behavior early game.

Cheers,
CC



witpqs -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/27/2018 3:50:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Dubost

I had a very funny instance of something similar at work today. One of my co-workers laughed when he realized that he'd claimed to have evaluated the impact of temperature on a reaction using the erroneous equation instead of the Arrhenius equation.

[:D]



Jellicoe -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/27/2018 2:31:57 PM)

It's over?! Oh my gosh what I am I going to read each evening when I come in from work!

What a fabulous game. Followed from the beginning and loved every minute. John's carrier pincer movement around the whole of Australia, the assault convoys inching towards Moresby, the total shocker of Sumatra (can remember exactly where I was when I read the 'reveal' post, Marshalls, the saving of the Washington, Wake, Big Tent, Celebes counter offensive

All brilliant and I have learnt loads

Full credit to yourself and John for seeing this to the very end.



reg113 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/27/2018 2:46:31 PM)

Thanks for the game and the entertaining AAR!



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/27/2018 6:14:10 PM)

Thanks again, gentlemen.

Jellicoe, you have a good memory. Washington badly damaged in the Marshalls, holes up at Maloelap or Mili for weeks or months. Then makes a dangerous journey to Pearl and on to San Fran through sub-infested waters (all waters are sub-infested, even if there's only one sub in the entire ocean). She took a long time to repair but finally rejoined the fleet and served well in the China/Korea theater.

Arg, the failed Celebes campaign - Operation Carousel, if memory serves. I willfully abandoned those troops so that I could spring forward to Luzon. It worked but it was painful. I predicted that John would rue the day he committed an army to Celebes while leaving Luzon wide open. But John was jazzed by his victory ("That turn ROCKED!" he wrote me, when my main army fell), so that I think he'd argue, even today, that it was a smart play on his part.

I've had a busy two days, so I've spent just a little time in his AAR. A few things I noted:

1. Kongo sank following the clash with CB Alaska and two CLs at Fusan a week back. That was a tough and ugly day in some ways but turned out pretty well.
2. John mentions some kind of House Rule violation at the end, in connection with strategic bombing. He doesn't specify what, and I don't know what he might be referring to. There weren't any HRs pertaining to strategic bombing from 1944 on. I'd like to know what he's referring to.
3. Right up to the end, John expressed issues with my use of YMS ships as pickets. But we had discussed this at length before and each time, after reading my explanation, he told me he understood and that there was nothing wrong with what I was doing. One time he mentioned that his readers had informed him that the YMS was indeed a military vessel and that this was the kind of thing they might've been used for. But he seemingly falls back into his old thoughts after awhile, like the proverbial man who looks in the mirror and then, when stepping away, forgets what he looked like. I do not understand a player's idea tha the should be able to sneak his carriers around the map and launch undetected strikes. He likes using flank speed to leap ahead by 16 or 18 hexes. He tried that gambit in the Bay of Bengal in '42 and CenPac in '43 and probably other places at other times. I can't imagine not taking appropriate precautions to guard against such things.



Simonsez -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/27/2018 6:34:22 PM)

Let us know when the "shakes" start so we know the onset time frame. I suggest some nice Bourbon to ease your way through it. Great match, it was a pleasure watching it unfold over all these years. Now I need to find something else to do over my lunch break. Thanks for a great ride! [&o][&o][&o]



BBfanboy -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/27/2018 8:52:03 PM)

I was thinking of the picket issue after following the link to the DS/KB clash writeup in John's AAR. He did mention the small fry pickets soaking up strikes and detecting KB in areas that patrol aircraft could not search. It seems to me there is a remedy available to the IJN - form a CL/DD TF or two and send them five hexes or so ahead of KB. Use float planes to search the area around for any pickets and deal with them via the react code.

Not foolproof, but nothing in this game is guaranteed except addiction! [:)]



BBfanboy -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/27/2018 8:53:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Simonsez

Let us know when the "shakes" start so we know the onset time frame. I suggest some nice Bourbon to ease your way through it. Great match, it was a pleasure watching it unfold over all these years. Now I need to find something else to do over my lunch break. Thanks for a great ride! [&o][&o][&o]

CR does not imbibe alcoholic beverages, so it will have to be sassafras tea ....



Chickenboy -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/27/2018 8:54:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I was thinking of the picket issue after following the link to the DS/KB clash writeup in John's AAR. He did mention the small fry pickets soaking up strikes and detecting KB in areas that patrol aircraft could not search. It seems to me there is a remedy available to the IJN - form a CL/DD TF or two and send them five hexes or so ahead of KB. Use float planes to search the area around for any pickets and deal with them via the react code.

Not foolproof, but nothing in this game is guaranteed except addiction! [:)]


Yup. And if the 'hangup' is based on the 'military vs. non-military' naval argument, the Japanese player can convert a ****-ton of xAKLs to PBs for such a purpose. There's always a remedy.



Chickenboy -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/27/2018 8:57:02 PM)

BBfanboy-

A little surprised to see you around these here parts. After the women's hockey game, the 'taking off the medal' tempest in a teapot and, of course, the stunning curling losses, I thought you'd be in mourning for another couple of months.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/27/2018 9:07:01 PM)

That was a figment of John's imagination. I did not have TFs of small fry out front to soak off enemy attacks - neither during the Great Naval Battle of Wake Island nor at any other time in the game. John thought I did. He was wrong.

What I did have at Wake Island was a vast and complex group of TFs. Death Star was at the center. Out front was a series of minesweepers, ASW and small combat TFs. These were DMS/AM, SC, and DD TFs. They were just in front of DS and to each side, not to soak off enemy air attacks but to address the threat of enemy subs, mines or combat TFs.

If that kind of deployment is questionable, I'd have to give up playing. What kind of nutty world would that be?



BBfanboy -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/27/2018 9:08:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

BBfanboy-

A little surprised to see you around these here parts. After the women's hockey game, the 'taking off the medal' tempest in a teapot and, of course, the stunning curling losses, I thought you'd be in mourning for another couple of months.


The roll of the die in any sporting event has nothing to do with my outlook on life. Sports are a form of entertainment unless you are one of the participants, so all I look for in sport is a see-saw contest where the outcome is in doubt until the end. This year's Superbowl finally delivered one of those games, and I got to watch it from a lounge chair at the bar in my hotel in Puerta Vallarta. Did I mention the drinks were included? Great evening!

In short, my national pride does not depend on any sports team winning - it depends on my nation doing (mostly) the right thing.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/27/2018 9:10:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Simonsez
Let us know when the "shakes" start so we know the onset time frame. I suggest some nice Bourbon to ease your way through it. Great match, it was a pleasure watching it unfold over all these years. Now I need to find something else to do over my lunch break. Thanks for a great ride! [&o][&o][&o]


Man, it's hard coming off a daily (sometimes twice or thrice or quaternary) dose of adrenaline every single day for years. I just sent John an email explaining how it was so easy to schedule things around each turn, getting ahead at work or working hard after a turn, making things manageable so that I could devote an hour or two to the turn.

Oddly, sometimes that helped me be more efficient at work. It forced me to remain disciplined and to plan ahead. And it gave me a break from working with words on computer screens for hours each day.

The shakes? Yeah. I miss it. I kinda want to go find John an give him a hug and weep gently on his shoulder.



Bearcat2 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/27/2018 9:12:09 PM)

I think the 4E bmbrs bombing an airfield at 8000 ft was the issue, he didn't specify the violation. I think he thought they couldn't bomb under 10000ft





Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/27/2018 9:25:57 PM)

Well, that bears looking into. I don't recall that being an HR, but I have a history of imperfect memory on HR rules. Some I knew well (no strategic bombing before '44 and no bombing of troops outside base hexes). But some of the others eluded my grasp. I forgot about paying political points for restricted troops and had Indian units well inside Burma and restricted Chinese inside Vietnam. That was embarrassing when John politely inquired.

I don't recall a rule about bombing airfields at less than 10k, but I'll see if I can dig something up. We all know by heart the famous "no naval strikes below 10k except for PBY Liberators," but airfield strikes?



aleajactaest10044 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/28/2018 12:00:00 AM)

Well done to both of you, the amount of time you've spent in the game and posting AARs was definitely a mighty endeavor.

A request for both of you...message mirrored to both AARs.

1) Japan - what warships (DD and up) were still afloat at the end?
2) Allies - Can we see some loss reports for Submarines and destroyers?



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