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wodin -> A new ACW.. (1/5/2013 2:28:08 PM)

Back in about '98 I read a future predictions issued by BT. One of them was economic collapse and a uprising in the States leading to civil war. After seeing alot of civil war references with regards to gun control do you think a civil war could happen if a Law was brought in against the 2nd amendment and Guns where banned\illegal?

If this is too political then please delete.



berto -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/5/2013 3:17:06 PM)


A decade or so ago, Russian intellectuals (at the Institute for US and Canadian Studies?) were advancing the theory that the U.S. was destined to break up in the not too distant future.

I scoffed at the idea then, but now I'm not so sure. Massive civil unrest (to the point of civil war?) and breakup of these United States is still unlikely, but no longer inconceivable, IMO.



Titanwarrior89 -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/5/2013 4:11:36 PM)

After the twin towers, I think anything is possible.......Welcome to the Great country of "Arkansas".....Please have your visa and passports ready[:D]



junk2drive -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/5/2013 4:30:15 PM)

The original idea was a bunch of countries with a central system of protection and trade. Kinda went wonky at some point.



Hentzau -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/5/2013 4:32:39 PM)

Or maybe caucasians will become the boogieman in the USA similar to Jewish folks in Nazi Germany.



Jim D Burns -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/5/2013 4:41:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Back in about '98 I read a future predictions issued by BT. One of them was economic collapse and a uprising in the States leading to civil war. After seeing alot of civil war references with regards to gun control do you think a civil war could happen if a Law was brought in against the 2nd amendment and Guns where banned\illegal?

If this is too political then please delete.



I think another civil war or more likely massive civil unrest is inevitable. With the re-election of Obama there is now no chance of preventing the eventual total economic collapse of our country similar to what has happened over in Greece. Except there isn't anyone around to bail us out like the rest of Europe is trying to bail out the Greeks, so eventually the police will go home here as they won't be getting paid anymore when the collapse begins.

As of this past year our debt to GDP ratio is now above 100% and is set to skyrocket by the end of 2014 due to all the massive new spending Obama care mandates.

http://ycharts.com/indicators/us_public_debt_gdp/chart#series=type%3Aindicator%2Cid%3Aus_public_debt_gdp%2Ccalc%3A&format=real&recessions=false&zoom=5&startDate=&endDate=

It's a lit fuse and you can clearly see it coming, but at this point it's too late to stop it. Eventually our ability to simply pay the interest on the massive increases to come in our debt will force the government to print huge amounts of currency to deflate the dollar so massively that they can then pay off the interest. Of course this will piss off all our debt holders, but what it does to average every day Americans is far worse.

That one event will lead to huge inflation like they saw in Germany after WWI when loaves of bread went for millions of Deutschemarks. Now suddenly you have all the recently retired baby boomers fixed income retirements become worthless overnight. What follows when everyone realizes the government printed away their retirement incomes will be beyond ugly, but my guess is there will be something along the lines of a war of some sort or another.

Gun control is just one of the freedoms they are about to take. You have to go back to 2008 and remember what Obama asked for back then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

The only thing a military organization as large and as powerful as that could possibly be needed for in today's world is to take on the US military. There is no other purpose for such a strong force given that the US military as a whole is virtually indestructible when considering most any other possible threat in the world. There is nothing they can't and don't handle, so why would he need another force that large and that powerful? They quickly stopped him talking, but this was a rare candid moment and gives you direct insight to what the eventual plans for the US are.

I believe they are intentionally driving the US into collapse, it's been the plan from day one. Otherwise going forward when it's clear what the end result will be is pure insanity, but forward we go. In their warped world view if they control the reins of power when they break it they think they'll be the ones to build what comes after like the Communists did in Russia after the revolution, but not without a fight, that's for sure.



junk2drive -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/5/2013 4:56:31 PM)

I used to laugh at the tin foil hat crowd until it got so blatant. NDAA for example.

Why is Microsoft, google, facebook, twitter, so big? So that they can keep track of you. Does govt run on Windows and Office? Why is Skype free? So that they can get a faceshot of you for face recognition software. Why do people report that their laptop camera and microphone turn on by themselves? Why do they give cell phones to poor people? GPS tracking and call monitoring. ad nauseam...



barkman44 -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/5/2013 5:14:26 PM)

the end of the weimar republic began when they started buying their own debt,just like the fed is doing now under the guise of "quantitive easing".
it got to the point where workers were given time off half way thru the day so they could buy food before the marks value went down which it did daily.
remember zimbanwa's 5 billion note?



barkman44 -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/5/2013 5:24:23 PM)

If at first you don't secede try try again
quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

After the twin towers, I think anything is possiable.......Welcome to the Great country of "Arkansas".....Please have your visa and passports ready[:D]




heyhellowhatsnew -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/5/2013 7:06:39 PM)

I had no idea so many people were conservative here [X(]

There won't be another civil war. Something needs to be done about gun control that still protects the rights of legal gunowners. And Obama is the same as every president the US ever had, a war criminal who protects the interests of the US and like every politician, loves power.

If the US would just cut its Defense spending, then we can help our nation's poorest citizens who need help.

There is no war but class war, my friends. And if you think that making the rich pay a bit more in taxes (the deal ended up being only the top %.02 (those making more than 400k instead of 200k) Americans instead of 2%, because Obama is a conservative himself, and not the marxist socialist people like to believe, he is still bound by the powers of those who have WEALTH) will ruin the country, then I really think you should re-evaluate how our government works, which is this: The wealthy have more say than average folks like you or I.

I'll end with a quote:

"John Steinbeck once said that 'socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.'



junk2drive -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/5/2013 8:18:04 PM)

Before this gets locked up, I wanted to share this

Oliver Stone interview

Socialism is everyone lowering their expectations so that being miserable is not so bad. And the top 2% still have all the wealth and power.



heyhellowhatsnew -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/5/2013 8:37:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Before this gets locked up, I wanted to share this

Oliver Stone interview

Socialism is everyone lowering their expectations so that being miserable is not so bad. And the top 2% still have all the wealth and power.


Replace that quote with capitalism instead of socialism and its the same thing. Add a dash of "brave new world" and voila: America



rhondabrwn -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 12:20:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: heyhellowhatsnew

I had no idea so many people were conservative here [X(]

There won't be another civil war. Something needs to be done about gun control that still protects the rights of legal gunowners. And Obama is the same as every president the US ever had, a war criminal who protects the interests of the US and like every politician, loves power.

If the US would just cut its Defense spending, then we can help our nation's poorest citizens who need help.

There is no war but class war, my friends. And if you think that making the rich pay a bit more in taxes (the deal ended up being only the top %.02 (those making more than 400k instead of 200k) Americans instead of 2%, because Obama is a conservative himself, and not the marxist socialist people like to believe, he is still bound by the powers of those who have WEALTH) will ruin the country, then I really think you should re-evaluate how our government works, which is this: The wealthy have more say than average folks like you or I.

I'll end with a quote:

"John Steinbeck once said that 'socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.'


I'm one of the token radical Liberals here [:D] Used to have some great political fights here before they cracked down (which was a good thing).

Anyway, I agree with you 100%

Just this morning though, I was at our local flea market and everyone was ranting about Obama is coming for their guns... there was complete agreement that the recent gun atrocities had all been "faked" by the Obama administration to set us up for gun control. Yep, none of those little kids were shot at all, it's all a conspiracy of the left wing media. These are my neighbors [:(]
Now I know why I need to get myself armed quickly... thinking M-14 with Sniper Scope... AK-74 for intermediate range defense... and a Glock 45 on my hip. Way too many crazies in America and I can see violence happening... which we will all regret as the body count rises. [:(]



rhondabrwn -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 12:26:50 AM)

Just remember... if we go down... we'll take the whole world with us [:(]

So, everyone had best pray or chant or whatever... and hope this doesn't come to pass.



parusski -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 12:37:53 AM)

quote:

There is no war but class war, my friends. And if you think that making the rich pay a bit more in taxes (the deal ended up being only the top %.02 (those making more than 400k instead of 200k) Americans instead of 2%, because Obama is a conservative himself, and not the marxist socialist people like to believe, he is still bound by the powers of those who have WEALTH) will ruin the country, then I really think you should re-evaluate how our government works, which is this: The wealthy have more say than average folks like you or I.


Oh dear Lord. I just fell outta my chair. I just never realized Obama was such a conservative. WOW.



parusski -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 12:44:35 AM)

I really can't stand gun control arguments. The founders clearly spelled out why they included a right to bear arms, read what some of the founders wrote:

George Mason, author of the Virginia Bill of Rights, which inspired our Constitution's Bill of Rights, said, "To disarm the people -- that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them."

Thomas Jefferson: "What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."

Alexander Hamilton: "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed," adding later, "If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government."



Gilmer -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 12:48:19 AM)

There's some absolutely weird stuff being presented out there as fact. People who should know better claim that the 2nd amendment does not protect the right of every law abiding citizen to own a firearm. To hear supposedly intelligent people claim it only meant the army, or some nebulous militias that never even existed outside of every person being called to the defense of their homes, is alarming.

Anyway, I thought this would be a thread about Ageod and the fact they will be putting out an ACW 2 - update to their first Ageod's ACW. Count me in on that one! Due out in 2013, but don't put that down as set in stone. [:)]



Rosseau -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 12:58:25 AM)

It's a lot scarier than gun control. Consumer confidence is down dramatically. Speaking economically, the debt is like a pyramid scheme that may soon collapse.

Worldwide, food, water and energy all have similar demand curves - straight up. In the 1950s, it took one barrel of oil to get 15 out of the ground. Now we only get 3 barrels out of it. The "easy" oil is harder to get. Takes more oil (energy) to grow food, etc. Population grows exponentially. Just an example that unrestricted worldwide economic growth may be impossible to sustain. At 56, I am not concerned for myself. But I am extremely concerned about the younger generation - "kids" under 20. And yes, I am praying.



parusski -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 12:58:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: H Gilmer

There's some absolutely weird stuff being presented out there as fact. People who should know better claim that the 2nd amendment does not protect the right of every law abiding citizen to own a firearm. To hear supposedly intelligent people claim it only meant the army, or some nebulous militias that never even existed outside of every person being called to the defense of their homes, is alarming.

Anyway, I thought this would be a thread about Ageod and the fact they will be putting out an ACW 2 - update to their first Ageod's ACW. Count me in on that one! Due out in 2013, but don't put that down as set in stone. [:)]


I can't understand one's inability to read. If the people involved in founding this country wrote about how important it was for the citizens to be armed, then I fail to comprehend how those who state the 2nd amendment was NOT intended for all people to be armed can claim to READ.

I give up.



rhondabrwn -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 1:26:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

quote:

There is no war but class war, my friends. And if you think that making the rich pay a bit more in taxes (the deal ended up being only the top %.02 (those making more than 400k instead of 200k) Americans instead of 2%, because Obama is a conservative himself, and not the marxist socialist people like to believe, he is still bound by the powers of those who have WEALTH) will ruin the country, then I really think you should re-evaluate how our government works, which is this: The wealthy have more say than average folks like you or I.


Oh dear Lord. I just fell outta my chair. I just never realized Obama was such a conservative. WOW.


He certainly isn't a Liberal / Progressive. I'd rank him just a tiny bit left of center, nothing particularly extraordinary, probably on a par with JFK, but with less backbone. Honestly, if he was White, we wouldn't be having this debate. I see nothing particularly radical about him. Even Obamacare is basically a Republican plan modified to please Health Insurance companies, I certainly don't look upon it as socialist - I supported creating a public option for all under Medicare (a system that has proven to be more cost effective than the private health care and insurance rackets) and Obamacare definitely ain't it!

Beyond that he has carried over way too many Bush initiatives and policies for my liking and sucked up to the Financial sector way too much as well. In another alternative world, he could have been a moderate Republican (white, of course).

If we need our guns, it's going to be to stop a right wing populist from seizing power and establishing an American Theocracy, not some fantasized socialist revolution. Do you ever worry about all the reports of religious proselytizing within our armed forces? At the Service Academies? If our military ever goes along with a coup, it will be to support a right wing Christian dictatorship, not a socialist regime. That's what people need to be worried about.



Jamm -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 1:38:54 AM)

Stop poking the bears,...



Wolfe1759 -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 1:46:34 AM)

The 2nd Amendment may have been a good idea when it was written.

Times change.



rhondabrwn -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 3:06:43 AM)

If the founding father's quoted previously in this thread were brought forward in time to see the carnage of the breakup of Yugoslavia, ethnic cleansing in Bosnia, the slaughter in Sarajevo etc

They would go back and delete the 2nd amendment. They could not comprehend the atrocity of a population with 300 million modern firearms turning them against each other.

I would ask just how you think your weapons would be used in this new "civil war"? I do this with the locals to get them thinking.

Get your buddies and go downtown and attack the police station? Blow up city hall? Burn the Social Security Office? March on Washington and try to kill Congress and the President? Form a mob and just go around killing everyone you see who doesn't look like you?

And then when you have no police to protect you from criminals, you form vigilante squads to patrol and protect your homes from... criminals and... whatever...

And how do you feed yourself with the economy shut down, trucks not moving, government disrupted, banks closed... public utilities shut down... so no electricity... no garbage pickup...

It's one thing to threaten "2nd Amendment Remedies" and fantasize a civil war, but I don't think anyone has really considered what it would be like... and what the chances are for them and their families to end up dead.

The way to preserve our nation is through the ballot box and informed voting, not by grabbing guns to "get your way". Once you realize how things would play out, the idea that you need assault rifles and thousands of rounds of ammunition becomes rather silly and useless. Is it that disturbing to consider putting the same kind of licensing and title registration systems we use for automobiles in place for firearms?



heyhellowhatsnew -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 5:24:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

quote:

There is no war but class war, my friends. And if you think that making the rich pay a bit more in taxes (the deal ended up being only the top %.02 (those making more than 400k instead of 200k) Americans instead of 2%, because Obama is a conservative himself, and not the marxist socialist people like to believe, he is still bound by the powers of those who have WEALTH) will ruin the country, then I really think you should re-evaluate how our government works, which is this: The wealthy have more say than average folks like you or I.


Oh dear Lord. I just fell outta my chair. I just never realized Obama was such a conservative. WOW.


He is certainly no liberal, socialist, or communist. He's Center-Right just like the rest of the two party system folks are who run for President.

Don't believe the Fox news hype.

Trust me, I WISH Obama was the socialist Fox News makes him out to be, but he is seriously like the rest of the center-right politicians in our nation masquerading for one side to get elected into power. See the example I gave in the post you quoted before.

Obama isn't going to take away your guns. Please don't worry about that. This is just propaganda to keep you scared so that people continue to profit and manipulate off of whatever side you're on.


This two party system is destroying our nation and pitting us together while the rich get richer. We shouldn't be enemies but allies.



heyhellowhatsnew -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 5:35:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

I really can't stand gun control arguments. The founders clearly spelled out why they included a right to bear arms, read what some of the founders wrote:

George Mason, author of the Virginia Bill of Rights, which inspired our Constitution's Bill of Rights, said, "To disarm the people -- that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them."

Thomas Jefferson: "What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."

Alexander Hamilton: "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed," adding later, "If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government."


I never got the deification or fetishizing of our "founding fathers". They were old slave owners who believed in things like the best way to solve a dispute was the duel with handguns and other outdated nonsensical beliefs and genociding Native Americans

They were just humans that lived centuries ago. Not Gods. Not prophets.

At least they had the common sense to know that our constitution is something meant to be evolved, because they had to foresight to know that human thought evolved and things change. Or poor whites, women and people like me would never be able to vote. That kinda thing.

As I said, i'm very very very socialist and I don't think that the second amendment should be repealed. And it won't. There is no gestapo that will take your gun away. I promise you this. This is never going to happen. No one will come and take anyone's gun away ever.

After all, the NRA and other lobbyists have bought our representatives pretty well so that any idea of a true gun control solution that will help lessen the deaths of our children and teens will never happen.

Welcome to the government. Highest bidder gets what they want. More of a reason for ALL of us to band together against the wealthy elite.



heyhellowhatsnew -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 5:45:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rosseau

It's a lot scarier than gun control. Consumer confidence is down dramatically. Speaking economically, the debt is like a pyramid scheme that may soon collapse.

Worldwide, food, water and energy all have similar demand curves - straight up. In the 1950s, it took one barrel of oil to get 15 out of the ground. Now we only get 3 barrels out of it. The "easy" oil is harder to get. Takes more oil (energy) to grow food, etc. Population grows exponentially. Just an example that unrestricted worldwide economic growth may be impossible to sustain. At 56, I am not concerned for myself. But I am extremely concerned about the younger generation - "kids" under 20. And yes, I am praying.


Consumer confidence was going up until the media (owned by the few wealthy elite) hyped up this fiscal cliff nonsense, unemployment is going down or improving http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-december-jobs-report,0,2301193.story (people seem to not understand the damage Bush did).

Folks, this fiscal cliff thing was all a charade, and if you are fox news watchers, I urge you to see the truth of what Obama did, Which was nothing but legitimize the Bush tax cuts:

quote:

Obama had vowed to raise tax rates for the top-earning 2% of Americans, including those with household income above $250,000 and individuals earning more than $200,000.
Raising the threshold for higher tax rates shrinks the number of Americans affected.
While nearly 2% of filers have adjusted gross incomes over $250,000, only 0.6% have incomes above $500,000, according to the Tax Policy Center.


http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/02/politics/fiscal-cliff/index.html

What you should be outraged about is congress letting the Violence Against Women Act expire because they didn't want to protect Native American women, undocumented immigrants and lgbt from violence, letting the people of New Jersey suffer until Chris Christie called them out because NY and NJ doesn't vote Republican.



heyhellowhatsnew -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 5:47:25 AM)

Smoke and mirrors is the game politicians play to keep themselves in power and to keep us fighting against each other to ignore the fact they keep getting more power.



Aurelian -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 7:07:30 AM)

Wow, politics? Really? Even though it's against forum rules?



goodwoodrw -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 7:27:23 AM)

Wow I can't help myself with this one, I'll get my 2 bobs worth in before the thread is locked. [:D]

First of all, Mr. Wolfe hit the nail on the head. About 2 hundreds years out of date.
And I can see how the 2nd amendment was important in 1780 or 90 a young nation with no standing army at risk at invasion from any would be attacker, but now the strongest and most powerful nation in the world militarily, no longer needs arm citizens to defend its shores. Suddenly if Canada or Cuba decides to invade, I don't believe the local minute man or militia will have much to do.
Secondly the 2nd amendment has done so well protecting young American kids in schools, the thousands black and ethnic Americans from being maimed and killed in the past 200 years hasn't it?
Thirdly 30 round magazines for assault rifles ain't design for hunting, not unless your hunting the unthinkable or thinkable for some.
Finally, a country with more guns than people, the only ones that will suffer because stricter gun control will be manufacturing and importers of guns and ammo. How much more money do these people want and how many people will die because their need or greed,at the expense of the youth in your schools, and the lobbyist how long are are going to hide behind archaic constitutional law that is no longer valid today for their own pleasure while others are being maimed on a daily basis.
OOps better go and hide before I get shot for my opinion.



Gilmer -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 7:57:14 AM)

As I said. A lot of misinformation that is put out there. President Obama has been rated as the most liberal President we have ever had.

I had a lot more typed out, but this would be a very long post, if I started refuting the silliness I have read here.



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