Oddity in Class Numbers Noted (Full Version)

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Akmatov -> Oddity in Class Numbers Noted (4/28/2003 5:39:14 AM)

Was just trolling through the H2H German OOB and noticed that all the German SPA seems to have been classed as 110-SP Rocket Launchers! Huh?!

Noticed it with 062-sIG33, 065-Grille, 115-Wespa, 116-LfS(f) and 138-Hummel.

Also 140-150mm sIG33 (towed) is classed as 109-Rocket Launcher. Didn't check anything else.

Is this an error or a subtle utilization of the characteristics of the classing system? On the face of it, it doesn't seem to make much sense.



Perfectionistul -> (4/28/2003 6:26:34 AM)

What I have to say: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=37487



Panzer Leo -> Re: Oddity in Class Numbers Noted (4/29/2003 3:00:49 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Akmatov
[B]Was just trolling through the H2H German OOB and noticed that all the German SPA seems to have been classed as 110-SP Rocket Launchers! Huh?!

Noticed it with 062-sIG33, 065-Grille, 115-Wespa, 116-LfS(f) and 138-Hummel.

Also 140-150mm sIG33 (towed) is classed as 109-Rocket Launcher. Didn't check anything else.

Is this an error or a subtle utilization of the characteristics of the classing system? On the face of it, it doesn't seem to make much sense. [/B][/QUOTE]

This is on purpose and not only for German but for all onboard arty stuff...it was the only workaround to get higher delay times and I haven't heard complains yet :)


Perfectionistul

The Rumanian OOBs have been reworked quite severely in H2H and even further in the patch now. If you want to take a look at them to bring up some specific issues, I can send you a set of the latest OOB going into the patch...



Belisarius -> (4/29/2003 3:18:01 AM)

Leo, can you give an ETA of the patch release? :p

Inquiring gaming addicts want to know. :D



Gallo Rojo -> Re: Re: Re: Re: Leo (4/29/2003 6:31:32 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]

I know, that a smoke round for the F-34 gun existed and was produced, but how common was it for T-34s to use and carry smoke rounds compared to Western Allies (Shermans) or German tanks (usually had a base load of 2-4 rounds) also taking into account some changes over the war years ? [/B][/QUOTE]


Hey PzLeo!
I’m back! :)

[B]The question about the T-34 and smoke have produced a lot of debate among the Spanish speakers comunity [/B] (although not all the debate was about the topic ... we are like this: we start talking about smoke and T-34 and we end talking about if Brazil will win the next World-Cup again :D)

I give you a short sum-up, and put a few questions that some Spanish speakers friend ask me to ask you (this job of being the link between this forum and my non-English speakers friends is a lot of work! :( )

[B] About the T-34's Smoke Ammo [/B]

My friends agree with me about that Russians didn’t employ smoke ammo on T-34 except for infantry support.
One of them said that Soviet assault guns (SU-76, SU-122, JSU-152) used smoke ammo but on indirect-fire routine, and that some T-34 used it on indirect fire also (?). I put a question mark because I never read nothing like this … I’m sure that T-34 didn’t had a target system for indirect fire, although I’m not sure about assault guns (but I think that some versions of SU-76 and SU-122 and JSU-152 may had it). Any way, although it sounds rare to me that T-34 could shoot indirect fire, I’m sure that I read that Tigers (!) were employed for indirect fire missions a few times (I read it on “Tigers in Combat II”).
Any way, it’s something that isn’t possible to be implemented in the game.

I know that this is not exactly what you asked me, but regarding smoke employment some of them said that one problem with smoke in SPWaW is that many players use it to cover their units after have shoot. One of them said that one good idea could be taken out all smoke ammo for infantry (except for engineers). This leaded to a discussion regarding that what players must do is avoid using smoke except when the AI use it automatically (when infantry unit is retracting). So, [B] one question was if there is a possibility of taken out all smoke ammo from regular infantry units. [/B]

Finally, of them pointed that one of the reasons why Soviets didn’t employ smoke in the same way than Western Allies and Germans was that Soviets designed their tanks with a very low shape, and that made them very hard to spot. At this point of the debate I mentioned that you have rebuild the spotting routine in order to make the tanks (and all units in general) harder to spot. This was much applauded. [B] My friends like to know if this “units harder” to spot is related to their stance (i.e. If a tank that is “in cover” will be harder to spot than a tank that is “ready”) [/B] . (Note: as far as I know, only advantage that an “in-cover” unit has on both current SPWaW and SPH2H is that it has some extra Op.Fire benefit, but nothing about making it harder to spot Am I right?).

Well … that was the discussion we had … I’m only translating what they asked me to asking you … so please don’t blame me if I’m coming with ideas that had have been or should had been discussed before :)

Best,
Gallo



Perfectionistul -> (4/29/2003 7:31:50 AM)

Panzer Leo,

Thanks, I'd like to. (both -- H2H & original SP:WAW -- OOB if possible)



Frank W. -> Re: Leo (4/29/2003 1:47:53 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gary Tatro
[B]I think I might have found a major bug. While playing a PBEM game in H2H one of my Indian Commando squads infilltrated on top of a Italian Weapons depot with a bunch of 75mm artillary pieces in the same hex. Very excited I clicked on my commando and went to the target screen (hit T) and the game crashed to desk top. Went back into the game and tried it again ( I had lost all of my moves that I had made previously). I did the same exact thing. Crash to desk top. I tried it one more time and it did the same exact thing. Crash to desk top. I used the commando by itself without going to the traget screen and it worked fine. The ammo depot blew up nicely killing everything in it including the commando squad but that was a small price to pay. I will try to post the ziped game and send you the password, if I still have it. [/B][/QUOTE]

gary: that happened to me w/ a normal SPWAW PBM !!

never seen it before. as soon as i tried to target something
with some units the game crashed to desktop wit 800x600 resolution and obscurred windows.... i always found SPWAW very stable so i was very surprised. perhaps the game files were corrupted during internet tranfer ?



Panzer Leo -> Rumanian OOB (4/30/2003 1:49:28 AM)

Here's the latest Rumanian OOB...



Panzer Leo -> Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Leo (4/30/2003 2:04:28 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gallo Rojo
[B]Hey PzLeo!
I’m back! :)

[B]The question about the T-34 and smoke have produced a lot of debate among the Spanish speakers comunity [/B] (although not all the debate was about the topic ... we are like this: we start talking about smoke and T-34 and we end talking about if Brazil will win the next World-Cup again :D)

I give you a short sum-up, and put a few questions that some Spanish speakers friend ask me to ask you (this job of being the link between this forum and my non-English speakers friends is a lot of work! :( )

[B] About the T-34's Smoke Ammo [/B]

My friends agree with me about that Russians didn’t employ smoke ammo on T-34 except for infantry support.
One of them said that Soviet assault guns (SU-76, SU-122, JSU-152) used smoke ammo but on indirect-fire routine, and that some T-34 used it on indirect fire also (?). I put a question mark because I never read nothing like this … I’m sure that T-34 didn’t had a target system for indirect fire, although I’m not sure about assault guns (but I think that some versions of SU-76 and SU-122 and JSU-152 may had it). Any way, although it sounds rare to me that T-34 could shoot indirect fire, I’m sure that I read that Tigers (!) were employed for indirect fire missions a few times (I read it on “Tigers in Combat II”).
Any way, it’s something that isn’t possible to be implemented in the game.

I know that this is not exactly what you asked me, but regarding smoke employment some of them said that one problem with smoke in SPWaW is that many players use it to cover their units after have shoot. One of them said that one good idea could be taken out all smoke ammo for infantry (except for engineers). This leaded to a discussion regarding that what players must do is avoid using smoke except when the AI use it automatically (when infantry unit is retracting). So, [B] one question was if there is a possibility of taken out all smoke ammo from regular infantry units. [/B]

Finally, of them pointed that one of the reasons why Soviets didn’t employ smoke in the same way than Western Allies and Germans was that Soviets designed their tanks with a very low shape, and that made them very hard to spot. At this point of the debate I mentioned that you have rebuild the spotting routine in order to make the tanks (and all units in general) harder to spot. This was much applauded. [B] My friends like to know if this “units harder” to spot is related to their stance (i.e. If a tank that is “in cover” will be harder to spot than a tank that is “ready”) [/B] . (Note: as far as I know, only advantage that an “in-cover” unit has on both current SPWaW and SPH2H is that it has some extra Op.Fire benefit, but nothing about making it harder to spot Am I right?).

Well … that was the discussion we had … I’m only translating what they asked me to asking you … so please don’t blame me if I’m coming with ideas that had have been or should had been discussed before :)

Best,
Gallo [/B][/QUOTE]

Seems to be quite an active crowd, your spanish speeking friends :D
I can't do anything on smoke loads for the different unit types. I'm only able to give some units other classes. There're tank classes that have smoke and some that don't. The Sherman tanks always had smoke and that's correct. German tanks of the medium class (Pz IV and Panther) lacked them, that's now changed. For the Russians I was not sure, but I tended to not give the T-34s smoke...
For infantry such things are not possible...

The spotting:
I didn't rework the spotting routines (this would need coding and I don't have access to the code). But everything we need is already implemented in the game. One of the really good features of SPWAW is the almost endless list of tweaks you can do by the preferences settings.
The default settings should normally reflect the most realistic behaviour under common conditions...for my taste the spotting is not able to do so at the 100% default, but at 50-60%. H2H will have a preset spotting of 60% in the preferences.
I played the last 3 months exclusively with this preferences setting and I'm very pleased with the results.
If you want to know how it will look like, just set your preferences to 60% and play around with it...that's all (and yes, tanks can hide again after moving) ;)



Commander Klank -> H2H bug?!? (4/30/2003 3:28:23 AM)

Hi Leo,

Gret job on the H2H mode I use it most all the time. The biggest thing I found in H2H is there seems to be some US and Soviet crews that are armed with some rather insane weapons like heavy artillry guns and stuff.

I'm sorry I can't give any exact details but you may want to look into this. Perhaps a review of vehical crew u its in the game is in order. Starluck, Krec, Ironfist and I have encountered this several times in online games. This bug seems to appear in crews for knocked out vehicals.



Panzer Leo -> Re: H2H bug?!? (4/30/2003 4:06:34 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Commander Klank
[B]The biggest thing I found in H2H is there seems to be some US and Soviet crews that are armed with some rather insane weapons like heavy artillry guns and stuff.

I'm sorry I can't give any exact details but you may want to look into this. Perhaps a review of vehical crew u its in the game is in order. Starluck, Krec, Ironfist and I have encountered this several times in online games. This bug seems to appear in crews for knocked out vehicals. [/B][/QUOTE]

This is 99% likely to be a version conflict...means one of the players is not using a proper H2H install...
Did 8inch guns show up ? If yes, it's definetely one.



Gallo Rojo -> Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Leo (4/30/2003 11:31:19 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]Seems to be quite an active crowd, your spanish speeking friends :D [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeha, its amazing how much two Latin-Americans and two Spanish can talk in a chat-room … and we weren’t sharing a beer! :D ;)


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]
The Sherman tanks always had smoke and that's correct. German tanks of the medium class (Pz IV and Panther) lacked them, that's now changed. For the Russians I was not sure, but I tended to not give the T-34s smoke... [/B][/QUOTE]


Please, be very careful with this.

I don’t know if German medium tanks had smoke ammo or not … but I have a playability concern here.

The reason for my concern is that I think that there is the following “bug” in SPWaW/H2H (I use quotations marks because I don’t really know if it’s really a bug or if it’s intentional, but I really don’t like how it works):

In other Steel Panthers Series, shooting a smoke shoot costs one shot. In SPWaW this is still the case, but if you have wasted all your turn’s shoots you still can shoot smoke-shoots (I’m not talking about the “smoke-discharges” I’m talking about smoke-shoots).
So, If you have a PzIVh that have get into troubles in 1945 and is surrounded by T-34/85 in 1944 (or a T-34 surrounded by Pz-IVh in1943), you can shoot all your direct three 3 or four fires shoots, and after that you still can shoot your 3 or 4 smoke ammo shoots … This don’t make to much sense for me, I can’t figure how the crew can to load the gun with smoke-cartridges, turn the turret, etc. and shoot after had shouted their regular direct-fire shoots (as I told, is quite different with smoke discharges). Of course this is a kind of tactic that a truly “sport-man” won’t use … but, who can keep his cool blood and behave like a gentleman when having a good PzIVh in distress :D ;)! … Any way, this wasn’t like this on the good-old Steel Panthers I, and is not like this in SPWW2.

What I take out form my chat with my friends, Soviet tanks carried smoke only when they know that will be on assault missions. That’s probably the case for Germans too (but I don’t know).

If you like to know my vote:

For Western:
I would keep smoke ammo on Shermans (I know that this was historically correct), but limiting its number.

For the Germans and Soviets:
I would keep only in Heavy Tanks and Assault Guns (but not in Medium tanks like T-34 and PzIII/IV/V). Germans medium tanks still have their smoke discharges, so it won’t be a real lost.

I may be considering giving smoke to the up-armored version of the T-34 … but I’m not sure.

And I guess that tanks having smoke ammo may be more expensive.

I have two more questions/comments about the T-34 (I’m a pest, I know it :D):

First: Have you considered in allowing that T-34 to be able to carry more than 8 infantry men?

Second:
I jut realized it: Regarding the T-34m42: You said that this will have the “Mikey Mouse” turret.
When this tank will be available? If you’ll keep it’s current availability date (early 1942), you have to keep its old-fashion turret (the same than the m41).
What I’m suggesting is that if m42 will share the same icon with other T-34/76 version, and if T-34m42 will still be available by early 1942 (as it is now) then the icon you have to use is the T-34m41 icon (not the T-34m43 “Mikey Mouse”).
If, otherwise, T-34m42 will be available by late 1942 (representing the T-34m42/43, then the “Mikey Mouse” turret is correct and m42 and m43 can share the same icon.
Note: as Soviet player I would prefer having the m42 avaiable by early 1942, which would also be historically accurate ofcourse (and so, m42 have to share icon with m41 -very accurate too, as both tanks external look was almost identical ... in fact many times diferences among 42 models produced in diferent factories were more noticealbes than one m41 and one m42 produced in the same factory).

I’m not sure if I was clear in my explanation … I think it was a little “twisted” :D

Finally:
Out of topic: Did you receive my “Stalingrad Down-Town and South” (with Harry&Tracer icons)? If you did and you like it, please let me know.
I have fixed a couple of minor mistakes in the map, so I have a new version of it.
I also discovered that the map has a “scale problem” (I need to add more hexagons between Train Station # 1 and #2).
If you’re interested in the map, and you need it soon, please, let me know and I’ll fix it as soon as I can.
I’m planning on designing another big (100x180) Stalingrad Map covering the northern-industrial area (using Harry&Tracer’s icons and terrains). Let me know if you’re interested in this other one two.
I’m not personally hurry about finishing these Stalingrad Maps, but I can hurry-up if you like to include them in the incoming SPH2H version

Very best,

Gallo Rojo



Charles2222 -> (5/1/2003 12:27:03 AM)

Gallo Rojo:
quote:

So, If you have a PzIVh that have get into troubles in 1945 and is surrounded by T-34/85 in 1944 (or a T-34 surrounded by Pz-IVh in1943), you can shoot all your direct three 3 or four fires shoots, and after that you still can shoot your 3 or 4 smoke ammo shoots … This don’t make to much sense for me, I can’t figure how the crew can to load the gun with smoke-cartridges, turn the turret, etc. and shoot after had shouted their regular direct-fire shoots (as I told, is quite different with smoke discharges).


disclaimer: My comments following, may not make for better gaming in the SP mode, or in the MP mode, and I haven't thought about that too much, but do consider it nonetheless.

It seems to me that the main question here is one of reload times for shells. Since there is no time difference currently in where you place your shots, be that one at 50 yards and then another at 2000, and also that there's no time difference as to the extremes that turret rotation may have to go through if you kept switching targets between the front and the rear, the matter of smoke shells is still even less demanding timewise I would think.

How much time does it take to fire a round which is merely meant to obscure vision and not actually hit something? If a crew were to fire off rounds in sort of a hit-and-run sort of routine, they might do just what you described. The commander might feel within that 2-4 minutes (or whatever it is) that each turn simulates, that he'd rather fire 3 or 4 times, and then use the rest of that time for a quick salvo of obscuring fire of smoke. It sort of sounds like a rip-off to not have smoke rounds fixed with any sort of link to the number of times fired, but since they're shots of a wholly different sort, ones which don't have to be pinpointed, I'm not too sure it matters. Now if someone is fortunate enough to have infantry type smoke round numbers, perhaps in the 8-12 range, and fires them all off at once, that's a problem, but I'm guessing not for just 3 rounds.

Though it may feel like an exploit for somebody to use smoke in that manner, I uqestion whether it's outside the bounds of the variable turn time.



rbrunsman -> (5/1/2003 6:12:39 AM)

I read Gallo Rojo's post about smoke and was all for eliminating the ability to fire any smoke after your 3 to 4 shots per round and then I read Charles' post and changed my mind again. Keep it in there Leo.

Thanks for the great discussion guys!



Perfectionistul -> (5/1/2003 8:36:32 AM)

Panzer Leo,

Thank you for letting me access the new Romanian OB. It's a lot better than before, good work. Is this going to be used for the next SP:WAW too?

If I have time (I'm actually neck-deep with end of term exams), I'll review the OB very closely, that's if there is going to be another version of H2H/SP:WAW.

Thanks and good morning :D , good night for me, as I live on the other side of the Atlantic.



Perfectionistul -> (5/1/2003 10:49:11 AM)

One last thing... the ZB37 machine-gun is showing up as a tank, I've noticed other oddities as well but maybe it's because the OOB you gave me is incompatible with the current SP. :D



chief -> Clear as mud (5/1/2003 12:43:53 PM)

Perfectionistul: I don't know if this will help or confuse you, but here goes.

SPwaw is a product of MATRIX currently ver 7.1 and has its own OOB's. Currently in the flux of being modified by Matrix,

SPwawH2H by Panzer Leo is a modified version. (It H2H requires an installation of ver7.1 seperate from the original then the H2h mods/OOBs? etc are applied to this game. This version is also being modified by Panzer Leo with inputs from others, like yourself.

You end up with two separate identifiable games in your computer if you so desire.

Leos mods and Matrix Mods will probably always be seperate, at least for a while.

I hope I didn't insult your intelligence with the above, but you seem somewhat confused about the identity of the games. I also hope this helps. Resp. Chief:) :cool:



Perfectionistul -> (5/1/2003 11:13:06 PM)

Thanks chief, that clears up some thing. I was just hoping that SP:WAW (original) would fix the Romanian OB like the guys at H2H did. I will write my own OB however, maybe both teams would like to have it, I'll do it as accurately as possible (see my name :D )

I also hope both teams will fix the base morale, experience and leader skill because the present values have nothing to do with reality. I e-mailed this suggestion to Mr. Paul Vebber but he said that the values are correct because the Romanians didn't perform so good in some places, like at Stalingrad he said.

Well, here's some food for thought:

-most of the AT guns were 37mm and 47mm (just enough to destroy BT tanks, absolutely no match against a KV or even a T-34)
-the front was so stretched that in many places the Romanians had almost no reserves
-the Romanians were facing 7 Russian Armies (with over 1200 tanks -- KVs and T34s)!
-Romanian tanks you say? Hardly 50, all of them being R-2s aka Pz35(t)'s

Not even US troops could do better in these conditions. I don't understand why the Romanians are so badly rated... worse than the Italians and Hungarians?? Someone is out of his/her mind.



Commander Klank -> (5/1/2003 11:20:46 PM)

[QUOTE]This is 99% likely to be a version conflict...means one of the players is not using a proper H2H install...[/QUOTE]

Yes in fact that was one of them. Is there several OOBs for H2H floating around out here? Perhaps with a patch release we can all get back on the same sheet of music again.

Kind of like cleaning out the basement every few years:)



Gallo Rojo -> (5/1/2003 11:54:09 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Perfectionistul
[B]Thanks chief, that clears up some thing. I was just hoping that SP:WAW (original) would fix the Romanian OB like the guys at H2H did. I will write my own OB however, maybe both teams would like to have it, I'll do it as accurately as possible (see my name :D )

I also hope both teams will fix the base morale, experience and leader skill because the present values have nothing to do with reality. I e-mailed this suggestion to Mr. Paul Vebber but he said that the values are correct because the Romanians didn't perform so good in some places, like at Stalingrad he said.

Well, here's some food for thought:

-most of the AT guns were 37mm and 47mm (just enough to destroy BT tanks, absolutely no match against a KV or even a T-34)
-the front was so stretched that in many places the Romanians had almost no reserves
-the Romanians were facing 7 Russian Armies (with over 1200 tanks -- KVs and T34s)!
-Romanian tanks you say? Hardly 50, all of them being R-2s aka Pz35(t)'s

Not even US troops could do better in these conditions. I don't understand why the Romanians are so badly rated... worse than the Italians and Hungarians?? Someone is out of his/her mind. [/B][/QUOTE]

Hi Perfectionistul!

Well, won't be me the one that would defend how SPWaW models diferent national characteristics by the sure! :D
Any way ... SPWaW is not a priority any more for Matrix Games. They are developing a new turn-based, hexagonal map game (Combat Leader http://www.matrixgames.com/cgi-bin/estore/category.cgi?item=1008&type=store ).

So they won't make to much (if any) improvment in SPWaW any more. If you want to "lobbying" for Romanians ... I recomend you to go to Combat Leader Forum http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=15 and post there) instead of emailing Paul Veber asking for improvenments in SPWaW (Paul is Matrix's Commander in Chieff or something like this) ... they simply won't do it.

There only two versions of Steel Panthers Series that are still getting improvenments: PanzerLeo's SPH2H (whic is adapted from SPWaW) and SPWW2 (this is from another company: SPCAMO).

As far as I know, PzLeo's SPH2H gives +10 experiece and morale to all major nations, so I guess that Romaninans (a "minor" nation) won't have a so good experience and moral ranking ...
Although I agree with you that Romanians hadn't had any chance against the Soviets in Stalingrad ... and they did a lot with what they had (Romanians holt the front for a good time in fact) ... And nor had the Germans stoped the Red Army in Uranus/Saturn operations ... so it's a little tricky blaming the Romanians for had been overruned...

Any way ... If you don't like how Romanians perform in terms of Exeperience and Moral, there is something you can do by your own: go to PREFERENCES SCREEN, and set HISTORIC RATINGS "OFF" (it's under REALISM PREFERENCES) ... then search TROOP QUALITY (under PLAYER PREFERENCES) and set the experience level that you want (10-49 for "green", 50-79 for "average", 80-99 for "veteran" and 100-infinit for "elite" ...

I do this when I play against with guys that plays with the Spanish on 1942-1944 (The Spanish Blue division, wich has a very poor (riduculous I have to say) moral level) or with players that like to play the Italians...
This way my oponents can have a good quality troops (not the defalut rankings).

Hope this helps. :)



Perfectionistul -> (5/2/2003 12:38:57 AM)

Thanks Gallo Rojo :)

[QUOTE]As far as I know, PzLeo's SPH2H gives +10 experiece and morale to all major nations[/QUOTE]

That doesn't sound very wise... why would the nation's size influence troops in the experience/morale aspect. :rolleyes:
The +10% exp./morale bonus should be only given to the nation's elites. I believe Spain is considered as a "minor" nation but the members of the Blue Divisions were certainly better than the average Russian soldier, so I don't see why the Russians should get a +10% exp./morale bonus simply because they belong to major a power. :rolleyes:



Panzer Leo -> (5/2/2003 3:02:02 AM)

To avoid some misunderstanding: There was no raise of 10% across the board for the major nations, but a general reeavluation of the ratings and a raise of the max values applied to the best nations to get a wider spread.
Where a certain nation belongs is very tough to judge and depends a lot on how one does define the abstract "exp/mor" applying to a whole nation. The only way to model a bit in this rather unflexible system is the +/- 10 modifier for elite/second line troops.

The Rumanians:

Looking deeper into this issue, I kind of get the impression, that the Rumanians in WWII had an army with two faces. One being a rather unsuccessfull and WWI era lead and organized army that lacked a lot of things when comparing to other more modern formations. This part of the Rumanian forces is I think what we see represented in SPWAW and was in real life the 4th Army, fighting at Odessa, e.g.
Losses against the Soviets were very high and successes limited, the Army was demobilized and disbanded in late '41.

Then there's the second face, namely the 3rd Army. These are the troops folks like Manstein talk about. Working closely together with German troops and being built up of the best Rumania had to offer (Cavalry and Munte Divisions), these forces showed high morale can indeed only be described as capable, well organized and courageous.
The record of successes against many Soviet units is quite long and the one or other smaller unit from the 3rd Army can actually be seen as one of the elite formations on the side of the Axis.
Stalingrad changed a lot though and the Rumanian Army was never again able to build up a similar fighting force, after it's best elements were almost annihilated.

I'm not sure, if there's a way how I can handle this rating wise, but we'll see...

The smoke ammo thing:
I have no concerns gameplay wise...the shots give to medium tanks are 1-4 and firing all of them in a single turn isn't anything I would consider unrealistic, as Charles showed.
As far as all my researches showed, it was very common for German tanks to carry smoke rounds, especially for the Pz IV. Having usually a pretty good ammo load capacity and putting not that much attention to large HE numbers like Russians did, the German tanks often had HE, AP, HEAT, Smoke and if availabe APCR ammo on board. HEAT and Smoke commonly only in limited numbers of 2-5 rounds.

The T-34m42 is the later model and after looking into my icon bag, I found a cool icon for every T-34 now (means 8 of 8) :)

A map...sure, hurry up :D



Perfectionistul -> (5/2/2003 4:13:47 AM)

Panzer Leo,

Well said, you've just proved that H2H is in good hands. :D

PS: From what I understand, SP:H2H will take the lead because Matrix isn't interested anymore in their own SP:WAW, right?
PPS: What tool do you use to make icons?



rbrunsman -> (5/2/2003 6:13:50 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]...the German tanks often had HE, AP, HEAT, Smoke and if availabe APCR ammo on board. HEAT and Smoke commonly only in limited numbers of 2-5 rounds.

The T-34m42 is the later model and after looking into my icon bag, I found a cool icon for every T-34 now (means 8 of 8) :)

A map...sure, hurry up :D [/B][/QUOTE]

Do you have any control over the process of deciding what ammo is fired in a given situation? It is really annoying when a tank wastes HEAT or APCR ammo when regular AP will do the trick.



sztartur2 -> Am I too impatient? (5/4/2003 3:18:29 AM)

Hi Leo!

I think lots of us are interested in this new H2H version.
When do you plan to release it?

Artur.



otto -> (5/4/2003 6:05:15 PM)

I'd like to see the new version. Hell, I'd like to see the old version!

Anybody know where I can get it?



sztartur2 -> (5/4/2003 7:12:49 PM)

otto: Click on Panzer Leo's banner and there you are.

Artur.



Perfectionistul -> (5/4/2003 8:18:22 PM)

Exactly what do you mean by "This is the final release version of H2H."? :confused: No more updates? :o



otto -> (5/5/2003 12:06:15 AM)

OK, I should've explained, but I tried by clicking on Panzer Leo's banner and the download link on his page but I keep getting the site not found message from my browser.

Is it just me or is it not active anymore?



Gallo Rojo -> (5/5/2003 1:46:35 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by otto
[B]OK, I should've explained, but I tried by clicking on Panzer Leo's banner and the download link on his page but I keep getting the site not found message from my browser.

Is it just me or is it not active anymore? [/B][/QUOTE]

Check here: http://www.theblitz.org/member_sites/panzer_leo_spw@w/spwaw_h2h_modrework.php

It works for me.

If clicking dont takes you to the SPH2H page, copy the URL and paste it on your internet explorer

Make a scroll-down for the button for download the version (it's 44MB) ... I did it and it's working.

good luck



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