Pacific War

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Larac -> Pacific War (2/20/2013 11:51:37 PM)
Been looking at getting back to some WWII gaming, is there any good Squad level games for WWII Pacific out there? Was looking through what Matrix has and not seeing much, got to play a Game of Combat Commander from GMT and that got me looking for a computer game covering the War in the Pacific. Any help greatly thanked, Lee

Titanwarrior89 -> RE: Pacific War (2/21/2013 12:19:12 AM)
HPS, has some but I don't really care for them but some do like them. Their covered under their squad level games.

Sarge -> RE: Pacific War (2/21/2013 3:32:31 AM)
HPS +1

junk2drive -> RE: Pacific War (2/21/2013 4:44:59 AM)
There are only a handful of squad level games to begin with and most don't cover the Pacific. Steel Panthers and Tiller's Squad Battles are about it. John Tiller's Campaign Series is platoon level but does include Rising Sun. Conflict of Heroes has an upcoming Guadalcanal board game that may make it into a PC version someday.

Rtwfreak -> RE: Pacific War (2/21/2013 1:32:41 PM)
I'd have to say The Steel Panthers: Generals edition is probably the best for squad level type play of the Pacific Theater. There is one whole campaign disk dedicated to it in the package. Then there is Pacific General of old but I wouldn't say it's "squad level" but it does have some very important land battle engagements from that theater. If you want something abstract you could go with Killerbee softwares The Perfect General as it has a few pacific theater scenarios included in it. It has guadacanal but it is very abstract and not really historical but does use the Guadacanal map. There is no other game that I wanted ported over more than Avalon Hills Guadacanal. I played that game until the map board separated and of course the box was in shambles. I loved the colorful units and the reinforcements arriving just in the nick of time. Greatest game AH ever made imho.

Joe D. -> RE: Pacific War (2/21/2013 1:51:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: junk2drive ... Conflict of Heroes has an upcoming Guadalcanal board game that may make it into a PC version someday. If they do, I will buy it too; after watching the video, "Guadalcanal: The Island of Death," I finally realized how much continuous land, sea and air action was centered on that inhospitable island. The single 'Canal scenario in AE doesn't really do it justice.

KG Erwin -> RE: Pacific War (2/22/2013 12:13:34 AM)
For WWII squad level combat, the old warhorse SPWaW (Enhanced Version) is all you need. If you want to play as the USMC or US Army vs the Japanese AI, it's a tough game, especially during the 1942 period. The Japanese in SPWaW are great defenders, and have characteristics which make them endurable and tough to kill off. They fight to the last man, which is why the USMC had to keep up-arming during the 1942-45 island campaign. It is a bloody slugfest which doesn't allow for much fancy manuevering. This aspect turns off many gamers, but that's the way it was, and SPWaW will put you in the middle of it. On the offense in Steel Panthers, the Japanese like to overwhelm you with numbers and launch banzai attacks. It is almost of medieval intensity at times. Japanese units sometimes will lunch themselves into your position, and then fire into the hex with adjacent units. It is a primitive and scary method of attacking.

Rtwfreak -> RE: Pacific War (2/22/2013 6:08:11 AM)
quote: Japanese units sometimes will lunch themselves into your position, And did they bring crumpets and tea with them during this lunch break? [:'(][:D]

Joe D. -> RE: Pacific War (2/22/2013 1:22:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin On the offense in Steel Panthers, the Japanese like to overwhelm you with numbers and launch banzai attacks. It is almost of medieval intensity at times ... I can't recall the name of the WW II correspondent in the Pacific who, describing a kamikaze attack, said only the Japanese could come up with using a modern airplane in such a medieval fashion. After several hours of intense aerial attacks, he said it was safer with the Marines on the island under assault than aboard ship!

KG Erwin -> RE: Pacific War (2/22/2013 10:42:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rtwfreak quote: Japanese units sometimes will lunch themselves into your position, And did they bring crumpets and tea with them during this lunch break? [:'(][:D] Ok, I made a typo. Anyway, if the Japanese enter an occupied position with 3 or 4 survivors in it, they do have the capability to make the unlucky few a skewered brisket. Honestly, though, there is no mercy shown by either side in the land war in the Pacific. This is why certain aspects of it remain controversial to this day.

Sarge -> RE: Pacific War (2/22/2013 11:12:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Honestly, though, there is no mercy shown by either side in the land war in the Pacific. This is why certain aspects of it remain controversial to this day. “remain” ………I call BS, there is NO correlation between the Empire and Allied forces ......none ! . There was nothing controversial about kill the enemy then ,what you’re attempting to bring into the thread is a modern “bleeding heart phenomenon”. Believe it or not there was a time when we would decorate our soldiers for killing the enemy……[;)]

Rtwfreak -> RE: Pacific War (2/23/2013 9:48:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sarge quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Honestly, though, there is no mercy shown by either side in the land war in the Pacific. This is why certain aspects of it remain controversial to this day. “remain” ………I call BS, there is NO correlation between the Empire and Allied forces ......none ! . There was nothing controversial about kill the enemy then ,what you’re attempting to bring into the thread is a modern “bleeding heart phenomenon”. Believe it or not there was a time when we would decorate our soldiers for killing the enemy……[;)] [sm=00000613.gif]

barkman44 -> RE: Pacific War (2/23/2013 12:41:58 PM)
Read"With the Old Breed on Peleui and Okinawa"specifically the part about the gold teeth!

Sarge -> RE: Pacific War (2/23/2013 6:07:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barkorn45 Read"With the Old Breed on Peleui and Okinawa"specifically the part about the gold teeth! I trump your fake outrage over a GI loosing himself after months of murderess fighting with the ……..Rape of Nanking..[;)]

Jonathan Pollard -> RE: Pacific War (2/23/2013 11:03:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sarge quote: ORIGINAL: barkorn45 Read"With the Old Breed on Peleui and Okinawa"specifically the part about the gold teeth! I trump your fake outrage over a GI loosing himself after months of murderess fighting with the ……..Rape of Nanking..[;)] And I trump your outrage over the Rape of Nanking with the 900,000 Japanese civilians that were deliberately killed by US strategic bombing between June 1944 and August 1945. The question of why the USAAF conducted indiscriminate area bombing despite the fact that even Lieutenant General Laurence S. Kuter, Chief of the Air War Plans Division, stated that it was "contrary to our national ideals to wage war against civilians" is examined in a master's thesis by Major John M. Curatola (USMC) and can be seen here: http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA406554 Also, the Japanese government has already paid 27 billion dollars of war crimes compensation. Has the USA ever paid any compensation for its war crimes in WW2 or any other war for that matter? Even in the most egregious case I can think of, the My Lai massacre, the US did not pay the relatives of the victims any compensation whatsoever.

KG Erwin -> RE: Pacific War (2/23/2013 11:44:41 PM)
Yep, these are the things that still cause heated discussions nearly 70 years after the Pacific War ended. Eugene Sledge wrote about this "brutish, primitive war" very eloquently in "With the Old Breed". The racial aspects are still very touchy, but it is a fact that we Americans portrayed our Japanese foes as "slant-eyed monkeys" in order to dehumanize them. In any case, I will stand by my opinion that SPWaW is the best representation of the tactical war as fought from 1942-45. As I play strictly as the USMC, I recognize that there was a job to be done, and we expended a lot of technological research into providing our Marines with the latest killing technology available. The average Marine of 1945 was much better equipped than the Marine of 1942, and this is a testament to the ability of the American war establishment to come up with modern weaponry in a very short time. Think about this: at Gaudalcanal in 1942 the average USMC squad was a 9 man unit, carrying '03 Springfields and a single BAR of WWI vintage, plus a Reising SMG. By 1945 at Okinawa the squad consisted of 3 fire teams (a total of 13 men), with semi-automatic M1 rifles, three BARs, and an additional supply of flamethrowers, explosives and bazookas they could draw upon when needed. It was a staggering amount of firepower. All of this was needed to subdue the incredible tenacity of the Japanese, who basically buried themselves in caves and bunkers and had to be burnt and blown up into submission.

KG Erwin -> RE: Pacific War (2/23/2013 11:55:49 PM)
Let us not forget that today is the 68th anniversary of the two flag raisings at Iwo Jima. See the film footage in slow-motion here: http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Iwo+Jima+Flag+Raising+Video&mid=DF72B0258EBF04139A6ADF72B0258EBF04139A6A&view=detail&FORM=VIRE5

Sarge -> RE: Pacific War (2/24/2013 5:28:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jonathan Pollard And I trump your outrage over the Rape of Nanking with the 900,000 Japanese civilians that were deliberately killed by US strategic bombing between June 1944 and August 1945. The question of why the USAAF conducted indiscriminate area bombing despite the fact that even Lieutenant General Laurence S. Kuter, Chief of the Air War Plans Division, stated that it was "contrary to our national ideals to wage war against civilians" is examined in a master's thesis by Major John M. Curatola (USMC) and can be seen here: http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA406554 [8\|] "The opinion and conclusions expressed herein are those of the student author and do not necessarily represent the views of the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College or any other governmental agency. (References to this study should include the foregoing statement.) Director, Graduate Degree Programs Philip J. Brookes, Ph.D." quote: ORIGINAL: Jonathan Pollard Also, the Japanese government has already paid 27 billion dollars of war crimes compensation. Has the USA ever paid any compensation for its war crimes in WW2 or any other war for that matter? Even in the most egregious case I can think of, the My Lai massacre, the US did not pay the relatives of the victims any compensation whatsoever. What are you talking about ? ….General Matsui along with the lieutenant general of the 6th Division of the Japanese army in Nanking were tried by the Nanjing War Crimes Tribunal (that’s all that happened)…………and the savage that sparked the massacre “Prince Asaka” was granted immunity because he was a member of the imperial family …..not that historical facts are going to sway your opinion of Americans crimes during the war If you can’t make the distinction between the axis and allies actions during the war years and your only justification for your comparisons is some thesis linking “strategic bombing” to outright genocide reality and common sense isnt going to change your opinion …….good luck with that PS/Edit: I see now where you’re opinions are coming from the link on your profile,it doesn’t start or end with WWII or just Americas for that matter does it.........[X(] “What every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

KG Erwin -> RE: Pacific War (2/25/2013 12:50:18 AM)
Sarge, you and I have known each other for a long time on this forum, and we are both fans of SPWaW. We may not agree about certain subjects, so let's chill out and leave the discussions about gaming. Any collateral stuff will just get this thread locked up, which I do not want to happen. In my opinion, we don't talk enough about the Pacific War in gaming, and why it is not as popular as the WWII European Theater. To me, it is mostly due to the fact that it's an infantry war, and many gamers are fascinated with tanks and AFVs. The "poor bloody infantry" are often afterthoughts. Sure, there ARE AFVs in the Pacific land war, but these are adjuncts to the main thrust of the fighting, and are primarily for infantry support. The tanks are not main characters. In the USMC method of fighting the "blowtorch and corkscrew" war, the tanks are valuable additions, especially that late-war flamethrowing vehicles. See this Iwo Jima footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W94XcbKjYU

rodney727 -> RE: Pacific War (2/25/2013 1:01:21 AM)
This is so lame. Omg hippies on matrix what's next space balls the movie? quote: ORIGINAL: Jonathan Pollard quote: ORIGINAL: Sarge quote: ORIGINAL: barkorn45 Read"With the Old Breed on Peleui and Okinawa"specifically the part about the gold teeth! I trump your fake outrage over a GI loosing himself after months of murderess fighting with the ……..Rape of Nanking..[;)] And I trump your outrage over the Rape of Nanking with the 900,000 Japanese civilians that were deliberately killed by US strategic bombing between June 1944 and August 1945. The question of why the USAAF conducted indiscriminate area bombing despite the fact that even Lieutenant General Laurence S. Kuter, Chief of the Air War Plans Division, stated that it was "contrary to our national ideals to wage war against civilians" is examined in a master's thesis by Major John M. Curatola (USMC) and can be seen here: http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA406554 Also, the Japanese government has already paid 27 billion dollars of war crimes compensation. Has the USA ever paid any compensation for its war crimes in WW2 or any other war for that matter? Even in the most egregious case I can think of, the My Lai massacre, the US did not pay the relatives of the victims any compensation whatsoever.

barkman44 -> RE: Pacific War (2/25/2013 3:01:35 AM)
What outrage fake or otherwise? War brings out the best and the worst in human beings. Back to the pacific war in gaming the japanese inspwaw is really hard to defeat they reduce their supression so quickly.

Joe D. -> RE: Pacific War (2/25/2013 12:49:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin For WWII squad level combat, the old warhorse SPWaW (Enhanced Version) is all you need ... What does SPWaW stand for, and where can I get a look at this game? Is there a website?

Sarge -> RE: Pacific War (2/25/2013 1:07:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Sarge, you and I have known each other for a long time on this forum, and we are both fans of SPWaW. We may not agree about certain subjects, so let's chill out and leave the discussions about gaming. Actually I’m a Tiller fan, never really got into SPWaW (makes my eyes bleed) ……….. [;)]

Josh -> RE: Pacific War (2/25/2013 1:42:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Joe D. quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin For WWII squad level combat, the old warhorse SPWaW (Enhanced Version) is all you need ... What does SPWaW stand for, and where can I get a look at this game? Is there a website? Steel Panthers World at War. And every ... ageing [:D] ... wargamer wants a remake. Yesterday. http://spwaw.com/ http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Camo_Workshop/WW2/WW2_page.html

Rtwfreak -> RE: Pacific War (2/25/2013 6:31:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sarge quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Sarge, you and I have known each other for a long time on this forum, and we are both fans of SPWaW. We may not agree about certain subjects, so let's chill out and leave the discussions about gaming. Actually I’m a Tiller fan, never really got into SPWaW (makes my eyes bleed) ……….. [;)] That's kinda funny because that's what Tiller games do to my eyes. Horrible graphics except for maybe that Squad Battles Pacific one the 2nd one.

Rtwfreak -> RE: Pacific War (2/25/2013 6:38:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KG Erwin Sarge, you and I have known each other for a long time on this forum, and we are both fans of SPWaW. We may not agree about certain subjects, so let's chill out and leave the discussions about gaming. Any collateral stuff will just get this thread locked up, which I do not want to happen. In my opinion, we don't talk enough about the Pacific War in gaming, and why it is not as popular as the WWII European Theater. To me, it is mostly due to the fact that it's an infantry war, and many gamers are fascinated with tanks and AFVs. The "poor bloody infantry" are often afterthoughts. Sure, there ARE AFVs in the Pacific land war, but these are adjuncts to the main thrust of the fighting, and are primarily for infantry support. The tanks are not main characters. In the USMC method of fighting the "blowtorch and corkscrew" war, the tanks are valuable additions, especially that late-war flamethrowing vehicles. See this Okinawa footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W94XcbKjYU I personally hate tank battle games. I've always enjoyed the infantry portion of it. Lite MG's, Hvy MG's, tommy guns (joke), the series "Combat" on tv. I like the building to building battles, the suspense the fear the adrinilin rush. You ever play "Computer Ambush" by SSI? That was such an excellent squad level game. I used to write little AAR's after I played out a battle. I remember one line I wrote like it was yesterday cussing Donny for getting all the kills....greedy bassturd. Love the banzai attacks in SPWAW from the japanese. Someone even did a reskin for the Pacific theater for the Combat Mission game, did the infantry and their tanks n stuff.

wodin -> RE: Pacific War (2/25/2013 7:04:39 PM)
I'm a hippy...

sullafelix -> RE: Pacific War (2/25/2013 9:46:47 PM)
" What does SPWaW stand for, and where can I get a look at this game? Is there a website? " That is blasphemy to a grognard. Next thing you will ask is what is AOR? [:D] SPWAW is a free game you can get through matrix. SPWW2 is a free game you can get through Shrapnel Games. But, and it is a big one, the free games are very hard to get to work in Windows Vista and later. You can get them to work but the fixes often mess up your computer until a restart.

Sarge -> RE: Pacific War (2/25/2013 10:58:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wodin I'm a hippy... we know this …………[:D]

Sarge -> RE: Pacific War (2/26/2013 12:54:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rtwfreak That's kinda funny because that's what Tiller games do to my eyes. Horrible graphics except for maybe that Squad Battles Pacific one the 2nd one. yea …I’m not arguing with that, out of box is still pretty bad but in the end I like the engine (call it preference) . Tillers Campaign Series is one of my fav’s ‘n imho is another under rated game I seen mentioned, honestly KG is right though. The theater is shamefully under represented, especially in a tactical scale.

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