Couple of supply questions (Full Version)

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Flicker -> Couple of supply questions (5/23/2013 4:20:40 PM)

Do navigable rivers deliver supply? If so can they be blockaded?

I'm curious because my Chinese are besieging Japanese-held Hankow, which has a port on the Yangtze River. I control 4 of the 6 hexsides. While the turn is running, I think I've seen shipping icons in Hankow (which only appear during the run) - are the Japanese sending ships or is it a supply feature or should I lay off the beer?

Also, I think I'm building up my supply network by expanding ports / airfields on major routes (rail lines / roads - e.g. from Sydney to Port Augusta to Darwin - same technique in India and CONUS). Will this improve supply? I'm working on improving the network by building each city / base to at least a size '3' with plans to further improve the network to size '5'. Does having troops / base forces in a base help move supply along?



Shellshock -> RE: Couple of supply questions (5/23/2013 4:26:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flicker

Do navigable rivers deliver supply? If so can they be blockaded?

I'm curious because my Chinese are besieging Japanese-held Hankow, which has a port on the Yangtze River. I control 6 of the 8 hexsides. While the turn is running, I think I've seen shipping icons in Hankow (which only appear during the run) - are the Japanese sending ships or is it a supply feature or should I lay off the beer?

Also, I think I'm building up my supply network by expanding ports / airfields on major routes (rail lines / roads - e.g. from Sydney to Port Augusta to Darwin - same technique in India and CONUS). Will this improve supply? I'm working on improving the network by building each city / base to at least a size '3' with plans to further improve the network to size '5'. Does having troops / base forces in a base help move supply along?



As Japan you can send AKLs up the Yangtze with supplies, resources, etc. I'm not sure if anything bigger can make the trip.



HexHead -> RE: Couple of supply questions (5/23/2013 4:29:56 PM)

Does having troops / base forces in a base help move supply along?

That is a real good question - dunno, wondered myself (I gotta reread the manual someday).

For the rest, I would guess, dunno fer sure, that if the controlling side has a Port there, it can send suitable (i. e., ones that can go upriver) vessels to the Port to resupply, etc.

One example - battleships (BBs) cannot berth at Calcutta - too big for the Hooghly river.



Lokasenna -> RE: Couple of supply questions (5/23/2013 6:14:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shellshock


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flicker

Do navigable rivers deliver supply? If so can they be blockaded?

I'm curious because my Chinese are besieging Japanese-held Hankow, which has a port on the Yangtze River. I control 6 of the 8 hexsides. While the turn is running, I think I've seen shipping icons in Hankow (which only appear during the run) - are the Japanese sending ships or is it a supply feature or should I lay off the beer?

Also, I think I'm building up my supply network by expanding ports / airfields on major routes (rail lines / roads - e.g. from Sydney to Port Augusta to Darwin - same technique in India and CONUS). Will this improve supply? I'm working on improving the network by building each city / base to at least a size '3' with plans to further improve the network to size '5'. Does having troops / base forces in a base help move supply along?



As Japan you can send AKLs up the Yangtze with supplies, resources, etc. I'm not sure if anything bigger can make the trip.


This is my preferred method of supplying China, as it delivers the supplies more centrally at Hankow/Wuchang.


For the OP - you should really read Alfred's Logistics 101 thread. You can force bases to draw more supply by changing the required amount. The base will then attempt to draw supply from anywhere else that has more than 3 times supply required and that it is connected to by a road or railroad (that last part I'm only mostly sure of).

Each "Command" (theater) has an HQ with the same title. Supply in excess of what your bases need will by default pool there. E.g., when I dump 50k supply in China via the Yangtze River, which is under China Expeditionary Army, the excess supply will flow to wherever I have the unit HQ China Expeditionary Army stationed. In my current game, that's in Changsha, so extra supply just sits there. I'm not sure if it's recommended, but I like to move these HQ units to central positions so that supply is in a central place (like Changsha instead of Shanghai, where the CEA HQ starts).

But you should really go read that thread. Here is the link:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2878790



Chris21wen -> RE: Couple of supply questions (5/24/2013 8:42:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

You can force bases to draw more supply by changing the required amount. The base will then attempt to draw supply from anywhere else that has more than 3 times supply required and that it is connected to by a road or railroad (that last part I'm only mostly sure of).



Supply will go anywhere but how much depends upon the terrain. You can see how much and where by selecting a base and hitting the 5 key to show supply distribution from the base.



Blackhorse -> RE: Couple of supply questions (5/24/2013 10:44:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shellshock


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flicker

Do navigable rivers deliver supply? If so can they be blockaded?

I'm curious because my Chinese are besieging Japanese-held Hankow, which has a port on the Yangtze River. I control 6 of the 8 hexsides. While the turn is running, I think I've seen shipping icons in Hankow (which only appear during the run) - are the Japanese sending ships or is it a supply feature or should I lay off the beer?

Also, I think I'm building up my supply network by expanding ports / airfields on major routes (rail lines / roads - e.g. from Sydney to Port Augusta to Darwin - same technique in India and CONUS). Will this improve supply? I'm working on improving the network by building each city / base to at least a size '3' with plans to further improve the network to size '5'. Does having troops / base forces in a base help move supply along?



As Japan you can send AKLs up the Yangtze with supplies, resources, etc. I'm not sure if anything bigger can make the trip.


In game, vessels up to 15,000 tons can steam up navigable rivers. That's most merchant vessels, and combatants up to (and including some small) CLs/CAs.



Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Couple of supply questions (5/24/2013 1:13:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shellshock


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flicker

Do navigable rivers deliver supply? If so can they be blockaded?

I'm curious because my Chinese are besieging Japanese-held Hankow, which has a port on the Yangtze River. I control 6 of the 8 hexsides. While the turn is running, I think I've seen shipping icons in Hankow (which only appear during the run) - are the Japanese sending ships or is it a supply feature or should I lay off the beer?

Also, I think I'm building up my supply network by expanding ports / airfields on major routes (rail lines / roads - e.g. from Sydney to Port Augusta to Darwin - same technique in India and CONUS). Will this improve supply? I'm working on improving the network by building each city / base to at least a size '3' with plans to further improve the network to size '5'. Does having troops / base forces in a base help move supply along?



As Japan you can send AKLs up the Yangtze with supplies, resources, etc. I'm not sure if anything bigger can make the trip.


In game, vessels up to 15,000 tons can steam up navigable rivers. That's most merchant vessels, and combatants up to (and including some small) CLs/CAs.


I remember seeing red ship icons huddled in the middle of China in my first AI game and thinking it was a graphics bug. Then I realized it wasn't and that was one of those "This is a great game!" moments.



Flicker -> RE: Couple of supply questions (5/24/2013 5:16:17 PM)

Thank you all for commenting.

Hankow - the detection is improving, so I see the ships now whereas before the ships appeared on the screen for only an instant. My specific problem at Hankow is that I sent units in move mode from the hex east of Wuchang on the 46 mile movement across the Yangtze - but they moved through Wuchang and not through the river hex (still only 46 miles). I'm trying again with another unit only this time the 46 mile movement is in combat mode. I want to control that hexside so the Japanese can't retreat and also so they can't receive supply coming in through that hexside. Even if I control all the hexsides I think that the Japanese will be able to send ships to the port.

That was kind of my question - does a navigable river improve the automatic delivery of supply? Is the river like a road or railroad? According to the ground movement table (referred to in Alfred's link), a railroad / road allows for faster / better movement of supply, and an enemy unit astride the rail / road impedes the automatic delivery of supply (contested hex). Since 'Navigable River' isn't mentioned perhaps supply doesn't flow along the rivers. However there is supply that moves automatically around islands.

Build infrastructure question - larger bases don't suffer from as much supply spoilage as smaller bases, so building up a base from airfield size 1 to airfield 3 seems like it might improve the supply network by reducing spoilage. I am building up bases located on critical railways / roads - does this improve my supply network? I know that building up 'safe' bases will improve my score, but I want to improve my logistics where possible. Will building each base to AF size 3 along the railroads between Sidney and Port Augusta / Alice Springs, as well as along the roads / rails from Alice Springs to Darwin improve the automatic supply network to Darwin? I've been investing a lot of engineers into this project and would like to know that I'm not wasting their time... I'm doing the same in India (rail bases from Bombay to Calcutta to Ledo) and the US / Canada rail bases.



LoBaron -> RE: Couple of supply questions (5/24/2013 5:39:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flicker
That was kind of my question - does a navigable river improve the automatic delivery of supply? Is the river like a road or railroad?


Rivers do not influence automatic supply movement. This solely depends on road/railroad connections to the hexsides, and the type of terrain.
(FWIIW, rivers are not "type of terrain" in this regard)

quote:


Build infrastructure question - larger bases don't suffer from as much supply spoilage as smaller bases, so building up a base from airfield size 1 to airfield 3 seems like it might improve the supply network by reducing spoilage. I am building up bases located on critical railways / roads - does this improve my supply network? I know that building up 'safe' bases will improve my score, but I want to improve my logistics where possible. Will building each base to AF size 3 along the railroads between Sidney and Port Augusta / Alice Springs, as well as along the roads / rails from Alice Springs to Darwin improve the automatic supply network to Darwin? I've been investing a lot of engineers into this project and would like to know that I'm not wasting their time... I'm doing the same in India (rail bases from Bombay to Calcutta to Ledo) and the US / Canada rail bases.


In India I would propose against it, as the reilroad network alone will suffice. Railroads have close to no wastage on supply pull, so the distances you can pull supplies across are enourmous. Basically it is not worth the effort, more so as you need engineers for more important tasks.

Australia is another story, as the road network is worse. It will help to increase the supply stock at the built up bases before wastage starts, but without also upping the supply requirements at those bases it does not help much.

But besides automatic supply flow, there is a tactic to get large ammounts of supplies over distances where supply flow usually is low, or wastage high:
Up the ammount of supplies required at a base (do not forget that the actual supplies requested there is suplies required times 3) and wait for the supply stock to build up. After a certain ammount is reached, lower the suplies required gradually again, and up the supplies required on the next base on the way, and so forth, until you have reached the desired destination. Obviousely, the larger a base, the higher you can set the base requirements before supplies are wasted.



geofflambert -> RE: Couple of supply questions (5/24/2013 6:09:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


But besides automatic supply flow, there is a tactic to get large ammounts of supplies over distances where supply flow usually is low, or wastage high:
Up the ammount of supplies required at a base (do not forget that the actual supplies requested there is suplies required times 3) and wait for the supply stock to build up. After a certain ammount is reached, lower the suplies required gradually again, and up the supplies required on the next base on the way, and so forth, until you have reached the desired destination. Obviousely, the larger a base, the higher you can set the base requirements before supplies are wasted.


Think of it as your esophaegus, squeezing the food down from top to bottom. Or a pump. I've been doing this to get supplies into Burma from India and it works.



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