Update on the next WitE update (Full Version)

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series



Message

Joel Billings -> Update on the next WitE update (8/10/2013 12:08:39 AM)

Thanks for all the feedback provided on the forum over the past 6 weeks regarding the state of play in WitE. As usual, it’s hard to sort out exactly what’s changed about the game, and how these changes are impacting 2 player and AI games (often they are impacted very differently by changes in the game, be they design changes or bug fixes). As we’ve previously stated, our primary focus now is on War in the West, and making major changes to WitE is not going to happen. Any changes to WitE are risky to make at this point (they can cause more bugs and or alter gameplay in ways that make things worse not better). Big changes have to wait for the next Eastern Front product that will use the War in Europe map we’ve developed for WitW (what has been called WitE 2.0 for lack of a better name).

Given the changes that came with 1.07, we did think it was appropriate to revisit the game and see if there were some relatively simple/safe changes that could be made. We put out a version to testers early this week with some changes that move things in the right direction. I expect that this version (or one with 1 or 2 other changes) will go out to the public within the next 1-3 weeks. In the process of exploring possible changes, we found a few items that had not been documented in the past so we’ve included this info in the readme notes. We had a fix in for one other bug (some combat units getting credit for 2 wins instead of 1) that unfortunately got wiped out by another change, but hopefully we’ll get that fixed in the near future.

As you would expect, the big (although fairly simple) changes were in the morale area. We agreed with the observations that units with low national morale were reaching 50 morale too easily when units were left in the rear training. Coincidentally we had been noticing the same thing with the Italians in WitW. We’ve put a cap on this now so that units won’t exceed their NM from this kind of training. There is still a way for units to reach a morale of 40 even if they have a lower NM (one of the old undocumented rules). We also lowered the chance of the die(nm/10) morale gain (the rule first fixed in 1.07). The net effect should be slightly lower Soviet morale in 1941, with the biggest impact on Soviet units toward the end of 41 and 42 when their national morale is low. During this period, Soviet rifle brigades will be worth more (as they should) as they have a minimum NM of 50 while the rifle divisions will have an NM of 45. Initial tests are showing the results we’re looking for. Taken together we believe the changes improve the game in 41 and 42.

Something we found while we were doing this work was that there were some undocumented bonuses given as soon as morale help was set above 100. This was a surprise to all of us, and we decided to move these bonuses to only kick in when morale help was set to 110 or higher. We still think when playing against the AI, experienced players should play at Challenging level or harder. By moving this major bonus to the 110 level, players should be able to use the levels from 101 to 109 to slightly modify the balance in a 2 player game if they wish.

In addition to the code changes, there were several data file changes made to try to improve various issues that have been brought up, including changes in the scenario files to weaken the Super Lvov Pocket strategy (we considered limiting rail movement through Hungary under certain conditions, but elected for a safer data change instead). Below is a complete list of the changes made in the version we now have in test.


V1.07.09– August 9, 2013

• New Features and Rule Changes

1. Rule Change (section 9.1.1) – Possible morale gains for a unit being at least 10 hexes from an enemy unit (in refit or not) will now only happen if the unit’s morale is below its national morale, or 50, whichever is lowest. Note it is possible to receive up to 0-2 morale points from this when not in refit mode, and 0-4 points when in refit mode (this has not changed).
2. Rule Change (section 8.4.3) – The air group unit commitment system will only allow the transfer of recon air groups to Wehrmacht airbases.
3. Rule Change/Errata (section 3.3.2) – There was an undocumented +1 morale bonus from victories whenever the morale help level was set >100. Similarly, there was one less loss of morale due to a lost combat when the morale help was set >100. These have now been changed so that these bonuses only apply when the morale help level is set >109. We have also fixed a bug that could cause a unit with morale help level >100 to potentially gain one morale point from a lost battle.
4. Formula Change (section 9.1.1) – Reduced the chance that a unit below its national morale will receive the die(10% of national morale) increase in morale. The chance is now 10% (was 15%).
5. Rule Errata (section 9.1.1) – Units that are below 40 automatically gain one morale point in the logistics phase.
6. Rule Errata (section 9.1.3) – The Finnish National Morale is 70 for the entire war.
7. Rule Errata (section 15) – There are a maximum number of units that may participate in a combat. The absolute maximum is 40 units per side (including HQs, on-map and support units). The system will try to include all on-map units if possible, but as the number of units gets large (over 25-30), there is a chance that some support units will be left out of the battle even before reaching the 40 unit maximum.

• Bug Fixes

1. Fixed a bug that was causing the number of victories and defeats to be credited to leaders to only work for 3 levels of command (causing OKH and Stavka not to be properly credited in all cases).
2. Fixed a bug that could prevent some Fighter-Bomber air groups from upgrading.

• Data and Scenario Changes

Data Files
1. 37mm Anti-tank Gun (67) – Added upgrade path to 75mm Anti-tank Gun (69) and changed Last Month from 12 to 10. 75mm gun begins production in November, 1941.
2. Changed the upgrade dates of WitE German infantry and pioneer squads and Slovakian infantry squads.
3. Added the missing accuracy modifier to the Slovakian (322) and Hungarian (358) 50mm anti-tank guns and added a German-made 75mm anti-tank gun for the Rumanians.
4. Changed the domestic Rumanian 75mm anti-tank gun start to a more accurate date of 3/44 and added a German-made 75mm anti-tank gun for the Rumanians.
5. Corrected production period of 39M Csaba Armored Car (288) armored car.
6. Maultier (174) – Renamed to SdKfz-4 Panzerwerfer.
7. SdKfz-250/9 – Added this vehicle as an armored car type in WitE (no picture/no symbol) and as a Recon Halftrack (new ground type 73) in WitW. It’s an upgrade from the SdKfz-222 armored car and needs 3 factories (initial size 1) in WitW; it uses the SdKfz-222’s orphan factories in WitE.
8. Fixed spelling of leader von Edelsheim, Maximilian. Changed Leader 1189: Demidov, Aleksandr from Ground only to Air only.
9. Fixed an error in the 42c SS Motorized Division (OB 463) that had its 75mm infantry guns entered twice.
10. 42a Guards Tank Corps (OB 404) – Added missing upgrade path to 42b Guards Tank Corps (OB 402).
11. 43 Assault Engineer-Sapper Brigade (OB 446) – Added missing upgrade path to 44 Assault Engineer-Sapper Brigade (OB 486).
12. 44 Airlanding Division (OB 133) – Renamed to 44b Airlanding Division (WitW only change).
13. 41b Infantry Division (OB 338) – Corrected upgrade path from 41 Jager Division (OB 32) to 42 Jager Division (OB 335).

Scenario Files
1. Some minor changes to arrivals including strength and experience were made to the Stalingrad to Berlin Campaign and the Winter 1942-43 scenario based on Matrix forum feedback.
2. In all campaigns and scenarios starting June 22, 1941, moved 2 Rumanian units back from the border near Chernovtsy. This allows Soviet units to use the rail next to the border on turn 2 if it is not cut by German units from the north. This was done to reduce the effectiveness of the German Super Lvov Pocket strategy. Also reduced the fort level of Hanko to 3.





Michael T -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/10/2013 1:05:34 AM)

This is excellent news Joel. Many thanks to you and the team. And thanks for listening. [:)]



delatbabel -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/10/2013 9:26:06 AM)


Hi Joel,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
1. Fixed a bug that was causing the number of victories and defeats to be credited to leaders to only work for 3 levels of command (causing OKH and Stavka not to be properly credited in all cases).


Can you throw one thing by your testers please. Examine this case:

Units participating in combat are
* 3 corps 6th Army, SW Front
* 3 corps 5th Army, Central Front
* 3 artillery divisions, 1st Airborne Corps, Urals MD

I have seen cases where as a result of a combat win, each of the corps get credited with 1 win each (correct), the 5th and 6th army commanders get credited with 1 win each (correct), the 1st airborne corps commander gets credited with a win, the SW and Central Front commanders get credited with 1 win, the Urals MD commander gets credited with 1 win, and the Stavka commander gets credited with 2 wins. This only seems to happen when there are 2 armies from different fronts plus an airborne corps from a third front (or MD) in the same combat. I would hate to see that the above bug fix also introduced a new bug where the Stavka commander got credited with 3 wins.



Joel Billings -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/11/2013 7:28:43 AM)

Do you have a save for this you can attach?



delatbabel -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/11/2013 12:33:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
Do you have a save for this you can attach?


Alas not, this is more recently when I've been playing server games not FTF games so I can't do a save.



mmarquo -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/11/2013 6:11:57 PM)

Check out the MKTours-Marquo AAR. For me the well-planned opening by Tours defines the end of WITE 1 as a competitive game. The Dnepr was breached on turn 2, and virtually the entire Southern and Southwest Fronts were surrounded on turn three. Even though the pockets were porous, the massive number of units removed from effective play meant that I had to divert some reinforcements to the south, and was unable to send much of anything to the center or north. The extended massive Lvov pockets coupled with the trans-Hungary/Rumanian rail express is unbeatable.

Also, the use of bombers as flying fuel tanks makes any notion of logistics a pure fantasy. He is advancing columns in a straight line wherever he wants with virtually no rational logistical constraint. I was successfully counterattacking and cutting off spearheads, but it makes no difference because the units behind are well-supplied by the bombers and surge ahead.

I appreciate the need to lower Soviet morale as above, but unless the game engine is retooled to tone down the fantasy currently allowed, then the game is unplayable as the Soviet, period, and the morale changes will only make it that much easier for the mathematically precise players like MK and MT.

However, for the record: I will never play WITE with non-random weather again; this is my second time and the predictability of it, coupled with the massive Ukrainian pockets, trans-Rumanian railroad and flying fuel tanks creates too much imbalance. Random weather is the only tool currently available to temper the circus antics.

Marquo [:)]

Hats off to Tours



mmarquo -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/11/2013 6:12:10 PM)

error



smokindave34 -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/11/2013 7:42:33 PM)

Thank you Joel for continuing to support WITE. I continue to enjoy this game (even with some of its warts) and the fix to Soviet morale should help axis players achieve a more historical oucome in '41.

Marquo - I agree the flying fuel tanks need to be addressed as well. In my game versus M60 I used my Luftwaffe to fuel up the panzers/motoroized units on turn 1. I was surprised to see that on turn 2 most of my mobile units had 45+ MP's. This was on average about 10 MP higher than in my game versus Sapper. The players who have fine tuned the axis logistics are just about impossible to stop.......unfortunately I'm not one of them [:)]



mmarquo -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/11/2013 7:48:19 PM)

"the fix to Soviet morale should help axis players achieve a more historical oucome in '41."

With all due respect, it will allow even more ridiculous results in '41; with a return to lower Soviet morale every attack including hasty attacks will again be successful, driving up Axis morale, lower Soviet morale even more; the routs will again be back to baseline and this coupled with the massive Lvov pockets, Romanian express trains and flying fuel tanks will make the game manageable for the Soviet.

The only equalizer is random weather....and even that may not work against MT.


Marquo [:)]



darbycmcd -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/11/2013 8:02:00 PM)

The thing with the complaints about soviet morale, no one seems to be able to express the baseline against which they are comparing in-game results. How do we know Soviet morale is too high? Should they rout 50% of the time? Against hasty attacks by similar size formations? It kind of seems that there is a belief that soviet divisions should rout if hasty attacked by a German infantry division the majority of the time.... but that does not actually reflect the reality of the historical fighting. It is also sort of weird because I think the majority of AARs that are posted here show the Germans doing significantly better than historical. Now in reality I am not against the changes that they have in the latest beta, I don't think they will have a huge impact one way or the other, but I just don't get what the complainers what the game to be like other than the Germans have to reach the Volga before the winter...



Flaviusx -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/11/2013 8:09:35 PM)

Marquo, for whatever it is worth, I doubt these tweaks will vastly affect Soviet morale. I think you can still get good results with the existing system, much better than before.

But beyond that, I think we're at the point where these kinds of band aid measures, whatever they are, are pointless. In fact, possibly worse than doing nothing at all. I'd just as soon call it a wrap and wait for the real deal: a complete overhaul of the game engine.



smokindave34 -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/11/2013 8:59:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

"the fix to Soviet morale should help axis players achieve a more historical oucome in '41."

With all due respect, it will allow even more ridiculous results in '41; with a return to lower Soviet morale every attack including hasty attacks will again be successful, driving up Axis morale, lower Soviet morale even more; the routs will again be back to baseline and this coupled with the massive Lvov pockets, Romanian express trains and flying fuel tanks will make the game manageable for the Soviet.

The only equalizer is random weather....and even that may not work against MT.


Marquo [:)]



Ridiculous results for those axis players who have figured out how to maximize the logistics or rail units all around the map on turn 1. In my last two games as axis I didn't take Smolensk in one (Sapper) and in my game versus M60 (non-random weather by the way) I didn't reach Rzhev. Taking these cities was a given before the last fix to Soviet morale. Maybe I'm just a terrible axis player but I'd like to think I can handle taking Smolensk in '41......

I've completed two full campaigns as axis and lost Berlin in '45 in both games. I enjoyed both immensley. I'll be lucky to see '45 in either one of my current games. I'm considering just playing the Stalingrad '42 campaign from here on out - take '41 out of the picture completely.



Flaviusx -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/11/2013 9:06:03 PM)

I'd love to see somebody take a crack at the Stalingrad 42 campaign, that one looks pretty well put together. It may even be the best one of the bunch.



Michael T -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/11/2013 10:15:10 PM)

The game is well in favour of the Soviets. And after my game with Kamil I will be proving that point. My list of Soviet challengers are going to have to wait. And besides I could do with several stress free games as the Reds.

quote:

I'd love to see somebody take a crack at the Stalingrad 42 campaign, that one looks pretty well put together. It may even be the best one of the bunch.


This one interests me as well, very much so. But it will have to wait.



SigUp -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/12/2013 10:19:49 PM)

Great news, thanks for the hard work. Just a minor question, has the issue of divisions / corps with support units attached being credited of 2 wins instead of 1 been addressed by the current update? And for the Stalingrad scenarios, 1st Panzer Army was subordinate to Army Group A and not Army Group B, like it is right now. For the arrivals of reinforcements, I assume you were already notified of the two 19th Panzer Divisions issue for the German side?

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3364621



Denniss -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/13/2013 10:46:50 AM)

Double victory count should be fixed in the internal follow-on version and the 19th Panzer double should be removed/renamed already in .09.



Peltonx -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/13/2013 6:37:56 PM)

Great stuff.



fbs -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/14/2013 11:59:45 PM)

Is there some clickity-clicky thingie around that we can, you know, click to upgrade and update, and then profit the benefit of being updated and upgraded, and leave us amused and improved?

In other words, where's the download, please?



Joel Billings -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/15/2013 12:58:16 AM)

It's still in test and hasn't been released to the public.

ETA if all goes well is late next week. There were a few more changes made this week. Here's the current list of changes since 1.07.08 (items new this week are in bold). No other changes are planned, but we need to test to make sure we haven't created new bugs with these changes. We could not change 1st Panzer Group to report to AGA in the various late 1942 scenarios as there is something altering the data.


V1.07.10– August 12, 2013

• New Features and Rule Changes

1. Rule Change (section 9.1.1) – Possible morale gains for a unit being at least 10 hexes from an enemy unit (in refit or not) will now only happen if the unit’s morale is below its national morale, or 50, whichever is lowest. Note it is possible to receive up to 0-2 morale points from this when not in refit mode, and 0-4 points when in refit mode (this has not changed).
2. Rule Change (section 8.4.3) – The air group unit commitment system will only allow the transfer of recon air groups to Wehrmacht airbases.
3. Rule Change/Errata (section 3.3.2) – There was an undocumented +1 morale bonus from victories whenever the morale help level was set >100. Similarly, there was one less loss of morale due to a lost combat when the morale help was set >100. These have now been changed so that these bonuses only apply when the morale help level is set >109. We have also fixed a bug that could cause a unit with morale help level >100 to potentially gain one morale point from a lost battle.
4. Rule Change (section 23.3.1)– If the Rumanian front areas is still frozen, Axis movement into Hungary is no longer allowed on turn 2 of scenarios starting on June 22, 1941. More accurately, movement is not allowed in the area both south of hex row 86 and west of column 45. This has always been true for turn 1, but has been extended to turn 2 as described above. The Axis AI may ignore this rule in order to defend its territory.
5. Formula Change (section 9.1.1) – Reduced the chance that a unit below its national morale will receive the die(10% of national morale) increase in morale. The chance is now 10% (was 15%).
6. Rule Errata (section 9.1.1) – Units that are below 40 automatically gain one morale point in the logistics phase.
7. Rule Errata (section 9.1.3) – The Finnish National Morale is 70 for the entire war.
8. Rule Errata (section 15) – There are a maximum number of units that may participate in a combat. The absolute maximum is 40 units per side (including HQs, on-map and support units). The system will try to include all on-map units if possible, but as the number of units gets large (over 25-30), there is a chance that some support units will be left out of the battle even before reaching the 40 unit maximum.

• Bug Fixes

1. Fixed a bug that was causing the number of victories and defeats to be credited to leaders to only work for 3 levels of command (causing OKH and Stavka not to be properly credited in all cases).
2. Fixed a bug that could prevent some Fighter-Bomber air groups from upgrading.
3. Fixed a bug where combat units with an attached support unit could get credit for 2 victories or defeats from one battle.

• Data and Scenario Changes

Data Files
1. 37mm Anti-tank Gun (67) – Added upgrade path to 75mm Anti-tank Gun (69) and changed Last Month from 12 to 10. 75mm Anti-tank Gun (69) – Introduction date changed to 2/42.
2. Changed the upgrade dates of WitE German infantry and pioneer squads and Slovakian infantry squads.
3. Added the missing accuracy modifier to the Slovakian (322) and Hungarian (358) 50mm anti-tank guns and added a German-made 75mm anti-tank gun for the Rumanians.
4. Changed the domestic Rumanian 75mm anti-tank gun start to a more accurate date of 3/44 and added a German-made 75mm anti-tank gun for the Rumanians.
5. Corrected production period of 39M Csaba Armored Car (288) armored car.
6. Maultier (174) – Renamed to SdKfz-4 Panzerwerfer.
7. SdKfz-250/9 – Added this vehicle as an armored car type in WitE (no picture/no symbol) and as a Recon Halftrack (new ground type 73) in WitW. It’s an upgrade from the SdKfz-222 armored car and needs 3 factories (initial size 1) in WitW; it uses the SdKfz-222’s orphan factories in WitE.
8. Fixed spelling of leader von Edelsheim, Maximilian. Changed Leader 1189: Demidov, Aleksandr from Ground only to Air only.
9. Fixed an error in the 42c SS Motorized Division (OB 463) that had its 75mm infantry guns entered twice.
10. 42a Guards Tank Corps (OB 404) – Added missing upgrade path to 42b Guards Tank Corps (OB 402).
11. 43 Assault Engineer-Sapper Brigade (OB 446) – Added missing upgrade path to 44 Assault Engineer-Sapper Brigade (OB 486).
12. 44 Airlanding Division (OB 133) – Renamed to 44b Airlanding Division (WitW only change).
13. 41b Infantry Division (OB 338) – Corrected upgrade path from 41 Jager Division (OB 32) to 42 Jager Division (OB 335).
14. 42 Rum. Armored Division (OB 75) – changed 75mm Anti-tank gun from Rumanian produced to (246) to imported German (360).
15. 42 Rum. Infantry Division (OB 77) – changed 75mm Anti-tank gun from Rumanian produced to (246) to imported German (360).
16. 43 Rum. Infantry Division (OB 136) – changed 75mm Anti-tank gun from Rumanian produced to (246) to imported German (360).
17. Hungarian 75mm Anti-tank Gun (291) – decreased accuracy from 350 to 250.
18. Rumanian 75mm Anti-tank Gun (360) – corrected gun crew rifles from Hungarian (141) to Rumanian (142).


Scenario Files
1. Some minor changes to arrivals including strength and experience were made to the Stalingrad to Berlin Campaign and the Winter 1942-43 scenario based on Matrix forum feedback.
2. In all campaigns and scenarios starting June 22, 1941, moved 2 Rumanian units back from the border near Chernovtsy. This allows Soviet units to use the rail next to the border on turn 2 if it is not cut by German units from the north. This was done to reduce the effectiveness of the German Super Lvov Pocket strategy. Also reduced the fort level of Hanko to 3.



Bozo_the_Clown -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/15/2013 1:57:56 AM)

quote:

Is there some clickity-clicky thingie around that we can, you know, click to upgrade and update, and then profit the benefit of being updated and upgraded, and leave us amused and improved?

In other words, where's the download, please?


There is a "Check for Updates" button in the menu. Is that the clickity-clicky thingie you want? [:D]



Gabriel B. -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/15/2013 8:49:49 AM)

Sir , the moving of romanian cavalry , is really necesary ?

A agresive soviet player can beat them back with the unfrozen units .

17th rifle corps
2nd mechanised corps
176 rifle division
39th tank division
2 nkvd regiments


[image]local://upfiles/45093/115E7F00A2EB4BF99347426C34A863DC.gif[/image]



Toidi -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/15/2013 9:24:31 AM)

Gabriel,

Seriously, you cannot rely on beating a unit when initial chance is 1:2.3, especially so on the first turn with all the penalties incurred on the Soviet fighting.

I doubt that the result you show is repeatable; once you take into account the variability of starting Soviet morale and number of movement points, it becomes totally unreliable...

Not to mention that attacking still neutral Romania is morally wrong [8|]...

T.




timmyab -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/15/2013 10:21:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Toidi
I doubt that the result you show is repeatable; once you take into account the variability of starting Soviet morale and number of movement points, it becomes totally unreliable...

Not to mention that attacking still neutral Romania is morally wrong [8|]...


A quick experiment shows the chances of success to be somewhere between extremely low and non existent.Gabriel, are you playing on normal setting?
Romania wasn't neutral.The units are frozen because Hitler decreed that the Romanian front should take a defensive stance.



Gabriel B. -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/15/2013 11:00:17 AM)

Normal setings, counteratacks by soviet armor happend on romanian bridgeheads that is a fact .
I consider it a small payback for the airstrikes on turn 1.[;)]

and for those willing to experiment :

this is the most important battle of turn 1 ( go Zhukov if need to )
try to score a scouting atack in the first try .
lauch deliberate atacks next
atack as the picture show.





timmyab -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/15/2013 11:30:40 AM)

I've done all possible command optimizing and spoiling attacks and I've never got close.I've never had enough MPs for a deliberate attack.Can you do it again?If you can, take us through the precise process will you.I think you might have got some kind of freak result there.



Gabriel B. -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/15/2013 12:05:45 PM)

a picture is worth 1000 words .

if you cannot beat the remaining cav bde you deserve to be encircled .



[image]local://upfiles/45093/10E7D74327234CE782C24CBDFF2D72A5.gif[/image]



Gabriel B. -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/15/2013 12:09:50 PM)

Btw with which unit did you try to do deliberate ?



timmyab -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/15/2013 12:44:54 PM)

Yeah, I can't even get close.We must either be using different patches or different difficulty settings.
Another thought.Are you using a campaign to test or a scenario, that could be it.



Flaviusx -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/15/2013 12:49:58 PM)

He's doing hasty attacks, TimmyAb, not a deliberate attack.

Note that in each game these units are going to vary in starting morale, so this isn't a slam dunk. And it is a moot point. The change is in.

Gabriel, you are missing the entire point of this revision, which is to disallow the super Lvov period. Whether or not there is a response to it isn't the issue. The larger issue here is that people are trying to game the surprise turn and do very ahistorical things with it, beyond even the original and quite ridiculous Lvov opening. That one cannot be fixed easily. This can.




timmyab -> RE: Update on the next WitE update (8/15/2013 12:57:15 PM)

I know he's doing hasty attacks, still can't get close.I actually managed to get a 70 vs 33 attack this time, my best yet.It failed miserably - 210 vs 50.

[image]local://upfiles/36871/6DE7CF8129AE4FC3BAD5FBD828A018E1.jpg[/image]



Page: [1] 2   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI
1.03125