EDBTR Database Project (Full Version)

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K 19 -> EDBTR Database Project (10/9/2013 2:39:13 AM)

EDBTR Database Project

This is an ongoing group project to improve the EDBTR database. Many board members are contributors. Please share your own version of the Database Project!

Please add your requests below. But reasonable requests only please. Don't ask anyone to redo the whole database, or to add unbalanced game-breaking changes or cheats. [:D]

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Latest database mod version by Turner:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/bdb5i8a3pxrbwzm/BtR_190152_MOD_33-131017.zip



warshipbuilder -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 3:03:35 AM)

500 words or less?[:D]

I suppose the big one is the Ta-152.




K 19 -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 3:15:30 AM)

Less than 500 words would be best. [:'(]

Ta-52 issues have been added to the list. I'll look through the Ta thread and decide what to change.



K 19 -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 5:03:12 AM)

Ok. So far for the Ta-152's I have slightly tuned down their manueverability and durability stats, plus slightly lengthened their repair/maintanence times. I have also slighly increased engine manufacturing requirements to help keep aircraft production numbers down a bit.

Anyone else with a request?



Turner -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 6:46:30 AM)

The Ta152 is not overpowered, the availability date is. So don't kill the a/c performance over a issue related to production. The issue can be dealt with by imposing linear research restrictions as a house rule. More variants of the 190D/152 should be added instead to further delay the late 152 models.

The quick fix would be to up engine req to 2, that would very effectively delay its entry date.



Creeper -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 6:52:55 AM)


Good idea, this Database Project!! [:)]


quote:

Anyone else with a request?

Give me some time to think about it; I just woke up...




Turner -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 7:22:40 AM)

I've already started working on the stats for the 190D-11 & 13, if forced to build those before researching the Ta152 that would push its entry date way back. It is a more historically accurate way to deal with the 152. If you just kill its performance the game easily become unwinnable to the axis player.



K 19 -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 7:37:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Turner

The Ta152 is not overpowered, the availability date is. So don't kill the a/c performance over a issue related to production. The issue can be dealt with by imposing linear research restrictions as a house rule. More variants of the 190D/152 should be added instead to further delay the late 152 models.

The quick fix would be to up engine req to 2, that would very effectively delay its entry date.


The editor is limited in what it can do. It appears that production specifics are hard-coded. It's possible to link what parts are required for which aircraft. But things like factory part production dates seem to be hard-coded. But it is possible to set aircraft assembly dates in the editor. From what I can see, Ta-152C assembly production date starts in January 1945.



Turner -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 7:43:32 AM)

There is nothing wrong with that date, it is the 190 family of a/c which is quite poorly handled by the game. Focus has been on the 109 and exotic jets.



K 19 -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 7:50:52 AM)

quote:

The quick fix would be to up engine req to 2, that would very effectively delay its entry date.


Ah, I see! Your quick fix idea to up FW-190 engine requirements to 2 is very easy to implement. No problem there.



Turner -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 8:03:49 AM)

Yes, for the Ta152s that would settle the issue of very early availability. The FW190 types should be left untouched.



npsergio -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 8:31:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Turner

I've already started working on the stats for the 190D-11 & 13, if forced to build those before researching the Ta152 that would push its entry date way back. It is a more historically accurate way to deal with the 152. If you just kill its performance the game easily become unwinnable to the axis player.


That's a great idea IMO (Fw 190 A 11 etc)



Creeper -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 8:51:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: K 19

quote:

The quick fix would be to up engine req to 2, that would very effectively delay its entry date.


Ah, I see! Your quick fix idea to up FW-190 engine requirements to 2 is very easy to implement. No problem there.


we should keep in mind that changing the engine req to 2
would cause a double fuel consumption (fuel storage at airfield).
So it's a good advice to do some testing before releasing an updated database
to the public to avoid a game breaker.




K 19 -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 8:53:35 AM)

Yes, I didn't think about that. Good catch.



K 19 -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 8:56:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Turner

I've already started working on the stats for the 190D-11 & 13, if forced to build those before researching the Ta152 that would push its entry date way back. It is a more historically accurate way to deal with the 152. If you just kill its performance the game easily become unwinnable to the axis player.


Sounds good. Adding new aircraft to the database through the editor is possible, but it still might cause the game to crash. There's a lot of hard-coded stuff the editor cannot change.



JeffroK -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 9:07:31 AM)

I have no problems in making the Ta152 extremely rare.[8D]

From the above it sounds like its impossible but, Me109 & Fw190 production lines shouldnt be able to change without a very long delay and maybe use a lot of materials.




K 19 -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 9:23:18 AM)

Looking through the editor more, I'm now convinced research trees and raw materials production is hard-coded.



K 19 -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 9:33:06 AM)

I think the easiest way to deal with the problem of the Ta-52 being too good too early (without changing it's performance stats or affecting it's fuel requirements) is to greatly increase it's repair/maintenance times. That way (regardless of production amounts or dates) they will be grounded much longer with fewer sorties, but still have the same performance. There's really no way to mod production times, production trees, or other values with the editor.



npsergio -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 10:17:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: K 19

I think the easiest way to deal with the problem of the Ta-52 being too good too early (without changing it's performance stats or affecting it's fuel requirements) is to greatly increase it's repair/maintenance times. That way (regardless of production amounts or dates) they will be grounded much longer with fewer sorties, but still have the same performance. There's really no way to mod production times, production trees, or other values with the editor.



That's a good idea for all models. Maintenance times for all sides an models should be raised IMO



Turner -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 12:48:41 PM)

Well I am not convinced about that concept. Historically some days German pilots flew up to three sorties, as it is that is sometimes possible and the current maintenance times feel right. I don't understand the Ta152 aversion, you can limit the impact by use of house rules. To mod existing types further f ex replace the 109Z with a later 190D model and make house rules enforcing the 190D types to be operational before 152 research is allowed. That would fix the issue in a very historical manner. Two types to research before 152s would enforce a 6 month delay or so, mid '44 maybe.



npsergio -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 1:02:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Turner

Well I am not convinced about that concept. Historically some days German pilots flew up to three sorties, as it is that is sometimes possible and the current maintenance times feel right. I don't understand the Ta152 aversion, you can limit the impact by use of house rules. To mod existing types further f ex replace the 109Z with a later 190D model and make house rules enforcing the 190D types to be operational before 152 research is allowed. That would fix the issue in a very historical manner. Two types to research before 152s would enforce a 6 month delay or so, mid '44 maybe.


I agree with all that you say.
I like the idea of new FW-190 models.
I like you idea of house rule limiting the research in historic games.
I like the idea to not to change the Ta-152 stats (if the plane were a good plane, why to chage it?).
I don't like to add the 2 engine requirements unless it is justified (and I think that probably it's not in this plane), but I could live with it...
About the maintenance time, I meant about the repair time it takes to fix the damaged planes, not about the time to refuel and rearm, that I agree with you that is ok. But I think that it's a bit unrealistic/ahistoric to have 36 operational planes nearly every day... IMHO



K 19 -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 1:27:44 PM)

If you are only talking about house play by email rules against a human player, then of course your idea will work. But a lot of people don't play other humans through email. Most only play against the computer. As we all know, the computer player won't voluntarily follow house rules.

I guess we could release two different mod versions. I still want to stick with working on the regular mod version myself. But if anyone wants to tackle modding the pbem version aimed towards house rules, please do. [:)]



npsergio -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 2:26:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: K 19

If you are only talking about house play by email rules against a human player, then of course your idea will work. But a lot of people don't play other humans through email. Most only play against the computer. As we all know, the computer player won't voluntarily follow house rules.

I guess we could release two different mod versions. I still want to stick with working on the regular mod version myself. But if anyone wants to tackle modding the pbem version aimed towards house rules, please do. [:)]


Of course you're right. House rules can only be agreed between human players.
Maybe the 2 engines cost for the Ta is a good idea to slow the production (even if I don't like it too much, because there is not any historical reason in it, I think). But I think that a change in the stats is something to do carefully. I mean, I'm playing the 44 campaign and I'm in final may 44. All those months I have litterally lost hundred of Bf 109G6 because of the US super fighters (P-47 and P-51). I learnt to fight them trying to minimize my own losses... But I think that the stats maybe are correct (aren't they?). If the allies find the Ta unstopable, maybe they have to adjust their strategy? But I'm not sure if it's fair to reduce the Ta his stats, unless they have been overpowered by the developers.
Probably making this moddel harder to produce and raising repairing times could have a result reducing the Tas production and general availability of planes due to repairs and maintenance.
I think that usually JGs had a good number of planes grounded in maintenance and repair due to lack of supplies (am I correct?).
Is not possible to change the abailability date of the axis planes? If it's possible, it could be a possibility to add some months to the historic (?) date. That will force the axis side to waste resources in research only to receive the planes in the historic data, and a "real effort" in research and lost production in order to advanve that date in late war wonderweapons.
Just some thinking about it... I hope that it will helps.
I can't say anything about the allied side, because i have not a lot of experience in this game and i know better the luftwaffe side.



K 19 -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 3:02:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: npsergio


quote:

ORIGINAL: K 19

If you are only talking about house play by email rules against a human player, then of course your idea will work. But a lot of people don't play other humans through email. Most only play against the computer. As we all know, the computer player won't voluntarily follow house rules.

I guess we could release two different mod versions. I still want to stick with working on the regular mod version myself. But if anyone wants to tackle modding the pbem version aimed towards house rules, please do. [:)]


Of course you're right. House rules can only be agreed between human players.
Maybe the 2 engines cost for the Ta is a good idea to slow the production (even if I don't like it too much, because there is not any historical reason in it, I think). But I think that a change in the stats is something to do carefully. I mean, I'm playing the 44 campaign and I'm in final may 44. All those months I have litterally lost hundred of Bf 109G6 because of the US super fighters (P-47 and P-51). I learnt to fight them trying to minimize my own losses... But I think that the stats maybe are correct (aren't they?). If the allies find the Ta unstopable, maybe they have to adjust their strategy? But I'm not sure if it's fair to reduce the Ta his stats, unless they have been overpowered by the developers.
Probably making this moddel harder to produce and raising repairing times could have a result reducing the Tas production and general availability of planes due to repairs and maintenance.
I think that usually JGs had a good number of planes grounded in maintenance and repair due to lack of supplies (am I correct?).
Is not possible to change the abailability date of the axis planes? If it's possible, it could be a possibility to add some months to the historic (?) date. That will force the axis side to waste resources in research only to receive the planes in the historic data, and a "real effort" in research and lost production in order to advanve that date in late war wonderweapons.
Just some thinking about it... I hope that it will helps.
I can't say anything about the allied side, because i have not a lot of experience in this game and i know better the luftwaffe side.



Good points. In the Human vs Computer version I will probably follow the route of making longer maintenance/repair times for all aircraft. I too think they are too short as of now. I don't plan on modding any aircraft stats (including the Ta-52).



K 19 -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 3:07:06 PM)

By the way, a few hex editing hacks were recently taught to me by 'Mr. X'. Much thanks to this anonymous person. [&o] You have made the game much more playable and enjoyable for me. I cannot post a link to the hacked file, or the editing instructions here because that might violate Matrix's rules.

One of the hacks increases the yellow game message time from 2 seconds to 4 seconds. 2 seconds is just too short in my opinion. 4 seconds at least gives you a chance to read each message before it disappears.

The other hack basically ignores 'over target area' message which centers the map on message level settings 1 or 2. This means the map won't jump around so much anymore, especially due to the numerous recon aircraft missions. You will still hear the engine sounds each time they are over target, but the map won't center on them anymore. When aircraft attack or bomb ground targets, the map will center on it. You won't miss anything important.

Anyone interested please private message me.



Turner -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 3:46:36 PM)

The issue raised was the very early possible availability of the 152 which can only be a problem in PBEM since the AI won't pursue ahistorical dates.



Creeper -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 3:56:07 PM)

I saw in the editor that aircraft id 499 contains the OOB version nr of the file.
K 19, if you publish any modified databases, could you adjust this version nr, please?
I'm concerned that we all become confused, if there are different databases floating around
without different OOB version numbers in the future.



K 19 -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 4:10:58 PM)

Thanks for pointing that out. Will do!



Turner -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 4:13:47 PM)

I'll pick the prefix 33- right away for my modded db files.



rob89 -> RE: Anyone have any database mod requests? (10/9/2013 8:39:41 PM)

Hi all,

I see you all know very well the database structure

Two questions :

1) Could someone explain to me the meaning of the data-fields in the 'device-sub-database', for the case of factories

For ex. : K19, please, what is the meaning of your statement :

<<I have also slighly increased engine manufacturing requirements to help keep aircraft production numbers down a bit. >>

Are you referring to those parameters, or other issues ?


2) Do you think it's possible to introduce a different 'device-type' to model the first german surface-to-air missiles ?

thank you in advance

Rob



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