Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (Full Version)

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brian heard -> Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 12:19:21 AM)

Guys, this game looks awesome, excellent job.
one question and it appears to be a no since it's WEGO, but is their anyway you can pause the execution turn and target a specific enemy unit?
thanks



Mad Russian -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 12:26:58 AM)

You are right, since the game is WEGO there is no stopping the orders cycle once it starts. The orders you've given are what you get to live with until your next orders phase.

Good Hunting.

MR



brian heard -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 12:35:38 AM)

thanks for the fast response so two other quick questions :)
(1) can you ever target an enemy unit for direct fire and then start the WEGO turn or will the unit always pick it target on it's own?

(2) Maximum unit elements is 35? (does that mean I can task force with 10 X M1 Abrams, 20 x M-3 Bradleys and 5 x M-113's?
thanks again
Great looking game.



FroBodine -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 12:36:26 AM)

I am almost ready to purchase this game myself, but I want to understand one more thing.

Do you get to select your targets to fire at, or does the A.I. do this for you? I'm still trying to figure out the whole turn cycle in this game. Do you just tell your units where to move, and the A.I. fires at will as they move? Or can you, for example, select your M1 Abrams, and tell it to fire on a specific enemy unit?

Thanks!



FroBodine -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 12:39:14 AM)

Hahaha, I was typing my message same time you were. Sorry for basically asking the same question again.



wodin -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 12:43:51 AM)

The turns are wego and vary in length between orders depending on command and control..if the enemy has better command and control they will get more turns than you..so the turn length is variable. I'm sure you can order your units to attack a unit, remember though I've seen the in game time between orders be upto 30mins. It's a unique system that is one reason why the game is replicating the theater\War in such a realistic way.

Disclaimer: I don't own nor have played the game..this is just going by the vids and AAR's and developer posts. I will say if you have tjhe cash..have an interest in the period\theater then it seems a must buy..I doubt you'll be disappointed.



FroBodine -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 12:47:35 AM)

Thanks for the comments, wodin. I would still like to know for sure, because I'm not sure it's the game for me if you don't get to select your targets to attack.

I'm still fuzzy on the WEGO and variable turn length, etc. I have a basic understanding of it, but I still don't see how it matters how long you have to wait for your turn. Once your turn comes up, I am asking if you get to choose your units, and select what enemy counter they will attack. Or, does the A.I. do this for you.

How much control do you have over your units?



brian heard -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 12:48:35 AM)

lol jglazier, that is what I was thinking.. I just like to Micro-Manage and think this would be a good feature to have even with the pulsed WEGO turns.



Mad Russian -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 12:56:23 AM)

1) No, you cannot select direct fire targets. Your units select their own targets. You tell your units to move and they select their own positions in the 500 meter area and pick their own targets. As the Brigade/Division commander you do not go and select every target for every squad and tank.

The AI will engage targets as it moves. Both for and against you.

You can pick specific targets for your artillery and CAS.

2) Maximum unit elements???

Good Hunting.

MR



FroBodine -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 1:06:31 AM)

Thanks Mad Russian. That is too bad, because I really thought this was going to be the game for me. But, I want to choose who to shoot at. Unfortunately, I will probably pass. Damnit! I wanted this game, too.



jack54 -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 1:09:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier



I'm still fuzzy on the WEGO and variable turn length, etc. I have a basic understanding of it, but I still don't see how it matters how long you have to wait for your turn.


The shorter turns help you react to events on the battlefield. If you have a 30 min turn length and your units spot some previously unseen enemy unit 5 minutes in you still have to wait 25 min of game time before entering a new order. If you are in better C&C you might be able to enter orders in 10 minutes of game time (15 min turn).



FroBodine -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 1:11:26 AM)

That makes sense. Thanks jack. I am still on the fence. It looks so cool, but I don't know if I will have as much control as I would like.



brian heard -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 1:14:01 AM)

for maximum unit elements.. can you have a single counter that has 10 x M-1 Abrams and 20 M-2 Bradleys for example.



TheWombat_matrixforum -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 1:17:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier

Thanks Mad Russian. That is too bad, because I really thought this was going to be the game for me. But, I want to choose who to shoot at. Unfortunately, I will probably pass. Damnit! I wanted this game, too.

You want a tactical game then like Steel Panthers. At this scale and command system, picking individual platoon targets would be odd.



jack54 -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 1:18:16 AM)

There really isn't much micro-management if that's what you like, you basically give various type movement orders and let your subordinates take over, but 'Watching' the turn resolution can get quite intense... I stopped watching incoming Artillery I can't take it anymore.



wodin -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 1:19:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier

That makes sense. Thanks jack. I am still on the fence. It looks so cool, but I don't know if I will have as much control as I would like.



I think once you play it you'll see how well it all works..you'll still have control but as a commander. TOAW3 is already out there for what your after..though I think your going to miss out. Why not just take a risk? I'm sure if you don't like it soemone will buy it off you, maybe for a few dollars cheaper. Then you'll only be losing out on say $5 and you'll know. Though I doubt you'll want to sell. Once you play you'll realise the beauty of the system is what you have worries over and the game wouldn't be half as good is it wasn't that way and just be another hex based wargame, it would alos loose what makes the game gel and replicate the cold war gone hot.



FroBodine -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 1:35:04 AM)

I just may get it after all. It does sound like a blast. But, you said you don't even own the game, wodin. You sure are talking it up! If I am going to take a chance, you have to, also! :o)



mekjak -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 1:55:50 AM)

To echo everyone else, I am having a blast. Other than Command Ops, this game has the most authentic modeling of command and control I have seen in a PC wargame. Not being in full control of all your units at once is part of the charm, and what makes it unique and better (in my opinion) than more typical hex and counter clickfests. That and seeing entire infantry companies annihilated within seconds of contact. [:)] The variable turn length WEGO system is fantastic as well, and it can make a decisive difference in how the battle plays out.

I think the ability to set priority targets and ROE might be coming in the future. Friendly AI is generally pretty good about target selection, though sometimes I wish they wouldn't have such itchy trigger fingers. But as a battalion or brigade commander, I'm not going to go down there to yell at them myself.




wodin -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 3:12:40 AM)

Trust me I will get it when funds allow!

quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier

I just may get it after all. It does sound like a blast. But, you said you don't even own the game, wodin. You sure are talking it up! If I am going to take a chance, you have to, also! :o)




CapnDarwin -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 3:46:43 AM)

I need time to get in and add more information to the "Under the Hood" thread I started. It gets into the answers to many of the "how does the game decide to shoot or scoot" type of questions. I know some people want to be able to say to a tank platoon, go here, wait X minute, engage these targets at Y range or less, retreat if..., etc., and the issue is you are now a tanker not the Brigade commander. Second issue is you get the sharp other edge of the sword. I told my units to hold fire until 1500m but the enemy stopped at 2km and shot me to pieces. Why didn't they shoot? You told them not to. And the whole thing tumbles from there. Flashpoint Campaigns is not really designed to put you into every tank, plane and uniform. We are out to make you control the battle from that command table, devising the plan, getting the intel, adjusting the plan as it comes off the rails. Sweating every decision. Question every action. Mourning the loss of those digital units.

We will be looking to do a number of things down the road to improve and provide more detail and refinement of the commanding elements of the game, but controlling each subunit is out of the games scope. You lead them, they fight. That is what I personally love about the game. Once you play it, it does get you into "one more turn" and "man I should have done X".

Enjoy the battles!



trebcourie -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 6:33:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier

Thanks for the comments, wodin. I would still like to know for sure, because I'm not sure it's the game for me if you don't get to select your targets to attack.

I'm still fuzzy on the WEGO and variable turn length, etc. I have a basic understanding of it, but I still don't see how it matters how long you have to wait for your turn. Once your turn comes up, I am asking if you get to choose your units, and select what enemy counter they will attack. Or, does the A.I. do this for you.

How much control do you have over your units?


I bought the game on release day -- something I never do.

No, you don't get to select your units' targets. And frankly, until you asked, I never even realized that you didn't or couldn't. Once you start playing the game, you'll realize that at this scale that's not something you want, or could, do.

As others have mentioned, "modern" war is fast and deadly. An entire Russian company of tanks can get chewed up in one turn. And from a practical standpoint, rarely do you see the same enemy units at the end of one orders phase that you saw at the beginning of the last.

You issue orders (movement and formation) to your platoons and companies. They execute as best they can. There's no room or even need in the game to individually target the enemy units.



loki100 -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 8:41:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jack54

There really isn't much micro-management if that's what you like, you basically give various type movement orders and let your subordinates take over, but 'Watching' the turn resolution can get quite intense... I stopped watching incoming Artillery I can't take it anymore.


yep, or when airpower catches your (you thought) concealed deception move when in march order ... hah

for what its worth, I like the abstraction of not doing target selection. I've not yet looked at what units pick to fire at and thought that is stupid. The order cycle and process to me is the key that makes the armies different. With the Soviets you need to plan over a longer time frame, NATO tends to operate quicker (unless you've sent your Hinds to hunt their HQ formations ... now that did work [8D] )



CapnDarwin -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 1:55:12 PM)

Thanks BROJD and loki100, I love jumping into a thread and seeing players answering for other players. [&o]



DoubleDeuce -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 3:51:54 PM)

The extensive micro-management of Steel Panthers is what is leading me away from the game after a very long time. Don't get me wrong, I still love it and it will always have a place on my HD. I just don't have the patience for that level of control anymore, picking and choosing each target, plotting each hex moved, etc. I also have CotA but I just cannot seem to get into it.

Honestly, this game reminds me so much of PanzerLeader/PanzerBlitz but modern and which I have just recently gotten back into. I'm really thinking this game is gonna fill a spot for me, that and it covers the time I was in the FGR with 8th ID.



MikeAP -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 4:03:22 PM)

My only issue with target selection is that in some cases I've had units assault past Soviet units without engaging, resulting in a lone enemy unit wrecking havoc in my rear areas.



deadsunwheel -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 4:13:33 PM)

quote:


There's no room or even need in the game to individually target the enemy units.


Couldn't agree more with this statement. One thing I really like about FPC:RS is that you can't micromanage what every unit does. Sometimes you end up just wanting to bash the hell out of your computer while yelling at the little chits moving around because things aren't turning out as you expected. Something that I would expect an actual commander would be experiencing in a similar situation, except replace the word computer for subordinate.

You can direct the course of the battle but you cannot "control" it. Though I hate the term "realism" when it comes to war games, at the end of the day they are for entertainment war most certainly is not, FPC:RS is probably the most realistic simulation of this scale of warfare that I have come across.



Mad Russian -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 4:35:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeAP

My only issue with target selection is that in some cases I've had units assault past Soviet units without engaging, resulting in a lone enemy unit wrecking havoc in my rear areas.


That is great news to my ears. [&o]

Unless we are playing a game of chess, where everything is known and the game is very structured, I want the mistakes.

In my military, business, and wargaming careers it's always been, "whoever makes the least mistakes wins."

I have a very large military history library. There are literally thousands of incidents in those books of the situation you just described. Where a unit made a mistake.

That is one of the primary reasons for using a WEGO system. It allows for mistakes to be made. If you are looking for a game of chess, this game is not for you. If you are looking for the fluid, ever changing, plan doesn't survive the first shot, change the plan on the run game, you're in the right place.

In that respect, we tried to make it as much of a sim as possible. In the respect of the fun factor, we tried to make it as much of a game as possible.

You are going to be playing my scenarios for the most part when you play the game, don't skip Al's scenario though it's worth your time, and I was brought in to do the scenarios, but I'm a gamer too. Many of the features and execution of game play are things I had a hand in. The entire team are all avid gamers. We know what we like. We created what we like and have now shared that with you! [8D]

Good Hunting.

MR



FroBodine -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 9:32:41 PM)

I just wanted to say, after my strong opinion against the game due to not being able to select targets, I bought the game based on all the excellent opinions and positive comments on this thread.

So far, so good. I have barely gotten into it yet, but I think I am really going to enjoy it.

Thanks again for helping me change my mind.



wodin -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 9:39:59 PM)

Cool..I will hopefully follow you soon.

I'd never recommend a game if I have the slightest doubt they might not enjoy it.
quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier

I just wanted to say, after my strong opinion against the game due to not being able to select targets, I bought the game based on all the excellent opinions and positive comments on this thread.

So far, so good. I have barely gotten into it yet, but I think I am really going to enjoy it.

Thanks again for helping me change my mind.



CapnDarwin -> RE: Ability to target a specific enemy unit? (10/12/2013 11:32:01 PM)

Thanks guys! Things seem to be jumping out of the gate well. A couple odd bugs we need to squash and we see a few improvements/additions we need to pursue based on user feedback. Enjoy the war!



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