RE: Download vs. Physical Option

RE: Download vs. Physical Option (Full Version)

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wodin -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (11/23/2013 10:02:05 PM)
The biggest thing\concern that puts me off now is the ever growing tech posts about bugs. I'd be more willing to except the price if the product was all shiny and appeared to be working well without a long bug list. Are the current crop of bugs game breakers..or just minor issues?

DSWargamer -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (11/23/2013 11:45:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: icitrom_y Another type of st that happens is that retailers understand the situation and the resentment that it can cause. As just one example of a common retailer, Canadian Tire will honour sale prices for items purchased at full price for weeks prior to the sale. Lee Valley, a woodworking retailer, once sent me a refund cheque out of the blue. The note attached said their records showed that I purchased an item three weeks prior that happened to just go on sale. They sent me the difference. But yes, then again there are plenty of companies that say tough st. It's a question of character. . Actually, in the realm of highly competitive marketing, many retailers have official store policy that states, they will match another retailer, in some cases beat it by a percentage, and in most cases they will honour sales prices within a specific time frame. Some retailers offer money back assurances within a time frame and no questions asked full refunds. \ It's just that cutthroat out there in retail, mainly with trendy electronics in my experience. Slitherine Group has no such policy, so I don't hold them to honouring it. I think it is nice they frequently offer price reductions for persons that have other portions of products that are related. If you own Conflict of Heroes Awakening the Bear for instance, it is good to know your serial is a 10 dollar coupon for the recent Storm of Steel release for Conflict of Heroes. I could linger and wait and hesitate and hold off on buying things hoping for seasonal sales if I desperately needed to save a few bucks. But if my purchase was to hinge on getting something for 20% off, odds are I can't afford the 80% of the original price either. Sometimes you just have to accept, that some things you can't get. I've bought a few games on timely sales here. But it was all fluke of timing. I have never regretted any money spent on my wargames, beyond regretting I bought a wargame instead of say a new outfit, or something for the kitchen. Sometimes I zig when I might have zagged.

Gizuria -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (11/24/2013 4:10:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DSWargamer Hmmm while I KNOW what the reply to this will be, the truth is, if they waffle, and then they cave in, and then they offer the download sans books, regardless of price reduction, it will only result in backlash. They will only change from annoying one batch of people, for annoying a different batch of people. They will still have annoyed people, and they will likely simply not genuinely have solved anything. Now of course if they want to offer solid statements to the effect, 'we sold enough of the books to reach a predetermined cash goal', or if they state they have renegotiated a deal with ADG to do so, then I suppose it would at least be accomplished with a justification offered. I don't seriously expect any actual hard fast statements like that of course. Hell as I see it, it isn't my business ie the company is not my company, and they can make any decisions they wish :) I won't change from liking my books, preferring my books and I won't have any beef with what I paid for my books. But I reserve the right to have an opinion on the choice :) You mean that they will shift to annoying the people who have been insulting the folks who don't want to buy books they neither want nor need. [:'(] The fact that they're even considering this means that they see more sales for them. I doubt they expected to see such loyalty from their customers that they'd be willing to pay the full price for the game without sending the books. I've bought several computer games in my time and seen them go on sale a month or two afterwards and neither flinched nor complained on any occasion. Them's the breaks. But you can console yourself by telling yourself how much you've supported poor FedEx with your money.

Zorachus99 -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (11/24/2013 4:52:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wodin The biggest thing\concern that puts me off now is the ever growing tech posts about bugs. I'd be more willing to except the price if the product was all shiny and appeared to be working well without a long bug list. Are the current crop of bugs game breakers..or just minor issues? Hot-seat is definitely broken to some degree, but Solitaire is essentially the same game as Hotseat. Multiplayer is broken AFAIK, I've never been able to connect. Solitaire works, but my closest wiffing buddy is 90 miles away. I'd say the current critical bugs are convoy routing, and getting multi-player to work.

JudgeDredd -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (11/24/2013 7:34:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd What a bunch of hypocritical bastards. You moaned and moaned and constantly moaned about the people who were unhappy with an unjust release - and now you're going to moan about a "possible" resolution. [:-] It totally escaped EVERYONES notice that all people really wanted was for Matrix/Slitherine to pony up a true statement instead of some marketing ** about "...it's about the physical product". People just wanted to know why the hell Matrix/Slitherine decided to release this forcing a huge (almost 1/3rd) extra cost for nothing (postage) than release as they have ALWAYS done - with 3 options. Most of their games - and anyone who's been around here long enough - know that the BASIC release for a game here is DX and that Collectors Editions were to be reserved for "those special releases" and that even THEN they would ALWAYS have a DX version. So people just wanted to know - why the ** this one was released without a DX version. For the record - I would've bought this with the manuals and on release if there was a Euro store so I wasn't wasting money on postage. Thankfully, there wasn't a euro store and therefore I held off...because it showed me what the hell this community was like. And I'd hate to need to post here - because you lot (and I'm referring specifically to this particular game and some vocal posters) are a venomous bunch of bastards. And Warspite1 - if you are so freaking bored with the posts about peoples issues (you and everyone else) why not - hey, ignore the damn threads and talk about the game. But no - you lot have to throw fuel on the fire. It just wouldn't be right not to moan about someone moaning. That means they got a moan more than you! warspite1 Here we go.... a) I am talking about the game, I am playing the game thank-you very much. b) People feel strongly about a couple of issues - no problem, right or wrong they have every right to sound off, and this is the place to do it as its game related. HOWEVER, when all this started I very politely asked that the number of threads be restricted. No harm in that you would have thought? But I was told where to go with that idea. So yes, I have been silent, not getting involved. But we know where politeness gets you. So we have what 5-6 (and counting) posts on the same stuff, cluttering up the forum for people who want to play the game, learn about the game and just enjoy the experience. So yes, I'm hacked off with it and decided to say something. Oh and as for ME throwing fuel on the fire you can take your self righteous crap and shove it. Oh and by the way, what are you doing? Oh yes, moaning about people moaning about people moaning - but you probably wouldn't understand the irony [8\|][8\|] So a stab at my intellect? What's this superiority bollocks now then? Is there any reason why you would think I wouldn't know what irony is or are you just being self righteous? And for your information - I was pointing out the irony...just because I didn't specifically mention the irony of it does not mean I don't understand what irony is - I just don't think I need to treat other forum members to suck eggs. For someone who hates these threads and who plays the game and talks about the game, your post count hasn't half bombed up since these threads started. One last thing - and yes it's irony - every single time you lot jump in on a "moany" thread - you push it right up to the top of your beloved forum. So there's irony for you - you hate these threads being about, yet you keep posting in them and keeping them right in the very view you hate to see them in...your view. That, my friend, is irony.

warspite1 -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (11/24/2013 7:43:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd What a bunch of hypocritical bastards. You moaned and moaned and constantly moaned about the people who were unhappy with an unjust release - and now you're going to moan about a "possible" resolution. [:-] It totally escaped EVERYONES notice that all people really wanted was for Matrix/Slitherine to pony up a true statement instead of some marketing ** about "...it's about the physical product". People just wanted to know why the hell Matrix/Slitherine decided to release this forcing a huge (almost 1/3rd) extra cost for nothing (postage) than release as they have ALWAYS done - with 3 options. Most of their games - and anyone who's been around here long enough - know that the BASIC release for a game here is DX and that Collectors Editions were to be reserved for "those special releases" and that even THEN they would ALWAYS have a DX version. So people just wanted to know - why the ** this one was released without a DX version. For the record - I would've bought this with the manuals and on release if there was a Euro store so I wasn't wasting money on postage. Thankfully, there wasn't a euro store and therefore I held off...because it showed me what the hell this community was like. And I'd hate to need to post here - because you lot (and I'm referring specifically to this particular game and some vocal posters) are a venomous bunch of bastards. And Warspite1 - if you are so freaking bored with the posts about peoples issues (you and everyone else) why not - hey, ignore the damn threads and talk about the game. But no - you lot have to throw fuel on the fire. It just wouldn't be right not to moan about someone moaning. That means they got a moan more than you! warspite1 Here we go.... a) I am talking about the game, I am playing the game thank-you very much. b) People feel strongly about a couple of issues - no problem, right or wrong they have every right to sound off, and this is the place to do it as its game related. HOWEVER, when all this started I very politely asked that the number of threads be restricted. No harm in that you would have thought? But I was told where to go with that idea. So yes, I have been silent, not getting involved. But we know where politeness gets you. So we have what 5-6 (and counting) posts on the same stuff, cluttering up the forum for people who want to play the game, learn about the game and just enjoy the experience. So yes, I'm hacked off with it and decided to say something. Oh and as for ME throwing fuel on the fire you can take your self righteous crap and shove it. Oh and by the way, what are you doing? Oh yes, moaning about people moaning about people moaning - but you probably wouldn't understand the irony [8\|][8\|] So a stab at my intellect? What's this superiority bollocks now then? Is there any reason why you would think I wouldn't know what irony is or are you just being self righteous? And for your information - I was pointing out the irony...just because I didn't specifically mention the irony of it does not mean I don't understand what irony is - I just don't think I need to treat other forum members to suck eggs. For someone who hates these threads and who plays the game and talks about the game, your post count hasn't half bombed up since these threads started. One last thing - and yes it's irony - every single time you lot jump in on a "moany" thread - you push it right up to the top of your beloved forum. So there's irony for you - you hate these threads being about, yet you keep posting in them and keeping them right in the very view you hate to see them in...your view. That, my friend, is irony. warspite1 Why do you insist on being critical - and then completely get things wrong? - why not get your facts straight? My Post Count (thanks for monitoring) has risen because of the AAR and answering peoples game queries. If you care to check (in order to ensure you know what you are talking about) my additions to these types of thread are rare until yesterday when I finally lost patience with this nonsense. I am doing the AAR to promote the game and you know - HAVE SOME FUN. You moan about me adding fuel to the fire - what the hell is coming on here with your "hypocritical B......" comment? No incendiary there eh? And finally, yes I know what Irony is - its like Goldy and Bronzy, but made of Iron. Edit: to add a poor Blackadder joke

Gizuria -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (11/24/2013 11:10:36 AM)
There really is a lot of unnecessary anger over this decision to force customers to buy books when they buy the computer game version of WiF. I read the announcement about shipping charges at the top of the page and this sentence jumped out at me. quote: It may interest you to know that between 20% to 40%, depending on the title still want a full boxed copy to go with their instant Digital Download version. Those are their own statistics so that means that 60-80% of their customers buy digital downloads only and don't want boxes, dvds or manuals. And seeing as how these are Matrix's boards, it's likely that quite a few of the folks who are going to pick this up fall into the download only category. I play 'War in the East' regularly, albeit the scenarios only. I also love 'Command Ops'. Both of these games are very complex and have what would be very hefty manuals as well. Matrix never felt the need before to tell us that our gaming experience would be incomplete without deluxe, hard-bound copies of the manuals. That they do in this case suggests to me that there is another factor at play which they can't discuss and have to defend i.e. that silence on an issue suggests approval. That's all fine with me. I don't care. I bought the game the day after the release as soon as I could find an address in the US to ship my manuals to. (I have a thing about waste and so made sure that they'd go to a good home [:)] ) If this is something that they had to do to make a computer version of this game, that's fine with me again. But I really don't understand why customers feel that this game is somehow so completely different from WitE or Command Ops, or any other board wargame for that matter that it has to have hard-bound manuals to enjoy properly.[&:] With respect to the books themselves, I believe you when you say that they are awesome but I think some folks are getting just a bit carried away about them. I'm as happy as Larry that you folks who want to buy expensive, hard-bound game manuals have the option to do so. I really am. Honest! Not joking [:D]. I have plenty of beautiful hard-bound history books in my library, although a very small number are novels (gifts from friends). But never in my history of wargaming have I ever felt like splashing out wads of cash to buy hard-bound manuals so I don't understand the reason why Matrix would think that WiF customers would want to do this. Anyway it looks like Matrix are about to change their policy on the requirement to buy the deluxe manuals. Whether they do or they don't doesn't matter to me one whit. What does matter to me (albeit not much[:D]) is that the developers get a really good return for the incredible investment of their time and money to put this together.

76mm -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (11/24/2013 2:42:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 And finally, yes I know what Irony is - its like Goldy and Bronzy, but made of Iron. Nice, a little humor never hurts...[:)]

danimaning2 -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (11/30/2013 2:45:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins Hi everyone, We're going to have an announcement next week about our decision on this. I'm sorry for the additional wait, but wanted to let you know more information is coming. Regards, - Erik Is there any anunnoucement?

Numdydar -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (11/30/2013 4:13:40 PM)
Yes. I announce that I ate turkey on Thursday. [:D]

captskillet -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (11/30/2013 4:51:08 PM)
and Pecan Pie! [&o]

paulderynck -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (11/30/2013 5:01:38 PM)
Any chance for a digital download on the pie?

captskillet -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (11/30/2013 5:22:14 PM)
I wish, I could make a killing using my grandmother's recipe!

Manstein63 -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (11/30/2013 5:36:32 PM)
No one is forcing you to purchase this game. Every game that I have bought from Matrix has been physical & with a free download if this game release had given us the option of a digital only version I still would have bought the physical version. Even if they subsequently have a digital only version I will still be happy that I got the books as well. Manstein63

76mm -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (11/30/2013 10:09:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Manstein63 Every game that I have bought from Matrix has been physical & with a free download if this game release had given us the option of a digital only version I still would have bought the physical version. Even if they subsequently have a digital only version I will still be happy that I got the books as well. Congratulations. Many feel differently. Next...

bo -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (11/30/2013 10:43:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 76mm quote: ORIGINAL: Manstein63 Every game that I have bought from Matrix has been physical & with a free download if this game release had given us the option of a digital only version I still would have bought the physical version. Even if they subsequently have a digital only version I will still be happy that I got the books as well. Congratulations. Many feel differently. Next... [/quot Okay I'm next, really not that many, it sounds like many when the few are very loud about their displeasure about the books, some times down right nasty, and most of the posters who like the books are trying to be polite, but that ain't working. Bo

Manstein63 -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (11/30/2013 11:47:49 PM)
quote: Congratulations. Many feel differently. Next... I respect what you are saying but perhaps the 'mistake' that Matrix made was having a digital version available in the first place. Some people (and I am not pointing any fingers) will complain just for the sake of it. When WitE was first released many people complained that it was too expensive even for just a digital version. Should Matrix have given you a choice as to whether you wanted the hard copy or just a download probably they should. However it is quite possible that the agreement with A.D.G meant that they were obliged to release W.I.F in the way that they did so as not to diminish or supersced the brand in anyway. Manstein63

danimaning2 -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (11/30/2013 11:55:51 PM)
I don�t understand some people. The guys like me, that dont want the book, are not saying that removed from sale this books. If you are happy with the books congratulations, its no problem for us. But please, if i dont want them, respect me. We can both be happy.

Manstein63 -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (12/1/2013 12:07:23 AM)
See my above post Manstein63

bo -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (12/1/2013 12:35:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: danimaning I don�t understand some people. The guys like me, that dont want the book, are not saying that removed from sale this books. If you are happy with the books congratulations, its no problem for us. But please, if i dont want them, respect me. We can both be happy. But you are not happy, and we will respect you if you give us respect, we have heard you and others many time, where do we not respect you? Where? Because posters here who have purchased the game happen to enjoy the books, is this disrespecting you and others? I think not. Bo

danimaning2 -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (12/1/2013 12:43:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bo quote: ORIGINAL: danimaning I don�t understand some people. The guys like me, that dont want the book, are not saying that removed from sale this books. If you are happy with the books congratulations, its no problem for us. But please, if i dont want them, respect me. We can both be happy. But you are not happy, and we will respect you if you give us respect, we have heard you and others many time, where do we not respect you? Where? Because posters here who have purchased the game happen to enjoy the books, is this disrespecting you and others? I think not. Bo Hi Bo I give you an example: I buy a car with a gold steering wheel, and i see other people asking for the same good car but without the gold steering wheel and i say: " i am very happy with my wheel and i dont want that the company sell that car without the gold whell" Have this any sense for you?, not for me. This is happen with WiF. (sorry my english) :-)

bo -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (12/1/2013 1:24:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: danimaning quote: ORIGINAL: bo quote: ORIGINAL: danimaning I don�t understand some people. The guys like me, that dont want the book, are not saying that removed from sale this books. If you are happy with the books congratulations, its no problem for us. But please, if i dont want them, respect me. We can both be happy. But you are not happy, and we will respect you if you give us respect, we have heard you and others many time, where do we not respect you? Where? Because posters here who have purchased the game happen to enjoy the books, is this disrespecting you and others? I think not. Bo Hi Bo I give you an example: I buy a car with a gold steering wheel, and i see other people asking for the same good car but without the gold steering wheel and i say: " i am very happy with my wheel and i dont want that the company sell that car without the gold whell" Have this any sense for you?, not for me. This is happen with WiF. (sorry my english) :-) Hi danimaning Your English is fine I understand you perfectly. Of course what you say makes perfect sense, I am not coming down on you in anyway, I see posters saying they like the books in a very pleasant way and some of the posters who do not want the books get a little nasty with them, not referring to you, but sometimes comments get all lumped together and just makes posters angry on both sides of the issue. It is what it is and unless Eric changes what Matrix has been doing with the books and the downloads I do not see how more complaining is going to resolve this. I mean this, I would just like to see everyone enjoy this wonderful game is that to much of me to ask? Bo

76mm -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (12/1/2013 6:05:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bo Okay I'm next, really not that many, it sounds like many when the few are very loud about their displeasure about the books, some times down right nasty, and most of the posters who like the books are trying to be polite, but that ain't working. hmm, my post wasn't intended to be "nasty", and I don't think it was; if it came across that way I apologize to Manstein. But at the same time, do we really need to hear over and over and over again that some people like the books? Everyone understands that, and no one is suggesting that they shouldn't like them. I think its great the Matrix created the hardcover books for those who want them.

Manstein63 -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (12/1/2013 9:44:14 AM)
quote: hmm, my post wasn't intended to be "nasty", and I don't think it was; if it came across that way I apologize to Manstein. No apology is necessary as no offence was taken Manstein63

Hotschi -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (12/1/2013 10:22:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 76mm But at the same time, do we really need to hear over and over and over again that some people like the books? Yes, since they are part of the current package. You are asking for too much - just because YOU do not like the books, nobody should thus be allowed to write that he likes them? Talk about being self-centered. [8\|] You should learn to show some respect for opinions and tastes different to yours.

DSWargamer -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (12/1/2013 1:43:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 76mm quote: ORIGINAL: bo Okay I'm next, really not that many, it sounds like many when the few are very loud about their displeasure about the books, some times down right nasty, and most of the posters who like the books are trying to be polite, but that ain't working. hmm, my post wasn't intended to be "nasty", and I don't think it was; if it came across that way I apologize to Manstein. But at the same time, do we really need to hear over and over and over again that some people like the books? Everyone understands that, and no one is suggesting that they shouldn't like them. I think its great the Matrix created the hardcover books for those who want them. Hmm put yourself in the place of the publisher, the dudes that made the product, the original owners of the product it is based on...... Now sure it is a necessary thing, that you need to know if there are problems, and you want to be made aware if there are any..... But no one likes hearing it over and over. No one likes hearing complaining over and over regardless of validity. But think of something you have done in your life, that took a lot of effort, that took a lot of time, that many thought wouldn't ever happen, are you suggesting, you'd ever have any trouble with people droning on and on and on about how pleased they were with your accomplishment? We understand, the more often we gush on about the books, the more it seems likely they might fail to find there was ever a problem with the choice that was made to make the order process a process whereby you either ordered the physical shipment, or there was no purchase. We realize our praise runs counter to the campaign to get them to allow a just digital download. But don't expect them to ever tire of us saying how great any portion of the purchase was. That would be illogical :)

Toby42 -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (12/1/2013 3:22:18 PM)
The books are nice, but if I had a choice I would probably pass on them. Especially if I had to pay a Premium for them. Shipping here in the US was not that big of a deal. I can understand people in other parts of the World being upset with shipping charges and extra taxes, etc. But it is what it is! I wanted the game and was prepared to accept the books as part of the deal! If you don't want the deal, don't make the buy. Real Simple....

bo -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (12/1/2013 3:47:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 76mm quote: ORIGINAL: bo Okay I'm next, really not that many, it sounds like many when the few are very loud about their displeasure about the books, some times down right nasty, and most of the posters who like the books are trying to be polite, but that ain't working. hmm, my post wasn't intended to be "nasty", and I don't think it was; if it came across that way I apologize to Manstein. But at the same time, do we really need to hear over and over and over again that some people like the books? Everyone understands that, and no one is suggesting that they shouldn't like them. I think its great the Matrix created the hardcover books for those who want them. I was not referring to you at all or I would have named you, I should have used post reply rather then your quote, did not think your post was nasty in any way, I am referring to some very mean posts during this particular topic by several people, it seems to me that when other people praise their books it inflames some passions around here, so just maybe we could lower the noise a little, both sides. Bo

Aurelian -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (12/1/2013 3:54:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: paulderynck Any chance for a digital download on the pie? You'll need a 3D printer.

76mm -> RE: Download vs. Physical Option (12/1/2013 6:39:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hotschi You are asking for too much - just because YOU do not like the books, nobody should thus be allowed to write that he likes them? Talk about being self-centered. [8\|] You should learn to show some respect for opinions and tastes different to yours. hmmm, I have plenty of respect for opinions and tastes other than my own, but that consideration should work both ways. quote: ORIGINAL: DSWargamer Hmm put yourself in the place of the publisher, the dudes that made the product, the original owners of the product it is based on...... Now sure it is a necessary thing, that you need to know if there are problems, and you want to be made aware if there are any..... But no one likes hearing it over and over. No one likes hearing complaining over and over regardless of validity. But think of something you have done in your life, that took a lot of effort, that took a lot of time, that many thought wouldn't ever happen, are you suggesting, you'd ever have any trouble with people droning on and on and on about how pleased they were with your accomplishment? We understand, the more often we gush on about the books, the more it seems likely they might fail to find there was ever a problem with the choice that was made to make the order process a process whereby you either ordered the physical shipment, or there was no purchase. We realize our praise runs counter to the campaign to get them to allow a just digital download. But don't expect them to ever tire of us saying how great any portion of the purchase was. heh, fair enough...

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