Friendly Challenge (Full Version)

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Icemania -> Friendly Challenge (12/1/2013 12:34:20 AM)

Hi All:

A friendly community challenge.

With the settings below what is the largest empire you can create within 30 game years?

• Normal Empire Age of Shadows
• 1400 Stars, 10 x 10 Sectors
• PreWarp Expansion, Extreme Difficulty, Difficulty Scales Near Victory
• Restless Aggression
• Very Many Strong Pirates, Nearby Distance, No Respawn
• Many Space Creatures
• Expensive Research
• Abundant Colonies, Teeming Independent Life
• Excellent Homeworld, Starting, Pre-Warp, Normal Corruption, Centre
• 19 Empires, Excellent Homeworld, Pre-Warp
• Victory Threshold 80%, conditions increased to 50% for Territory, Population and Economy

Limitations
• Intelligence Agents do nothing except Counter Espionage
• Recovered debris field ships (and any other recovered ship) must be retired
• Obviously no use of the game editor!

These limitations can't be checked but as this is intended to be friendly ... we'll assume trust.

Largest empire can be interpreted using any in-game metric. This thread is not intended as a competition, I would rather discuss the strategy i.e. the how.

Happy to join similar friendly challenges on other settings.



Kayoz -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/1/2013 1:44:59 AM)

What about...

- enforce colonization range limits
- allow independent colonies to start new empires during the game



Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/1/2013 2:35:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

What about...

- enforce colonization range limits
- allow independent colonies to start new empires during the game


Thanks for the prompt Kayoz. Let's go with no colonisation range limits and allowing independent colonies to start new empires. For anything else, the bar is open, choose whatever you like.




Mastik -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/4/2013 6:01:32 AM)

Score: 230,559 (13th in my universe) [X(]
Pop: 47,634
Economy: 118,315
Colonies: 6,000 (6)
Military: 56,830
Research: 1780

Random Race: Gizureans
Random Gov: Hive Mind

My 1st non-pirate attempt at Shadows. My initial system was not ideally located, few nearby systems. Few pirate encounters in the early game, which was good. Was unable to locate a suitable high tech location for research base. Extremely long delay for colonization tech. 2 of my planets were nothing but constant pirate battles for 20 years, it was crazy!

Key Errors: Should have upgraded to large space station (for research) early in game, or redesigned small station with stronger research. I should have spammed defense bases earlier.




Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/4/2013 9:25:27 AM)

Good stuff Mastik. I'm waiting for the new patch before launching a new game. I've never actually played the Gizureans and tend to use Quameno to boost research.

Any screenshots, this may also prompt strategic discussion. Did you invade some independents? Or launch Pirate Extermination Fleets?




Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/5/2013 8:40:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: elliotg

Thanks for the feedback on this thread.

In the next update game difficulty has been increased on higher levels in the following ways:
- more defending troops at colonies, especially larger colonies
- buying tech from other empires is more expensive for the player
- selling tech to other empires is less lucrative for the player
- relationship thresholds for buying tech from other empires is higher for player (i.e. other empire has to like you more)
- non-player empires build more exploration and construction ships when they are able
- overall difficulty factors have been increased (i.e. each difficulty setting above normal is now harder)

Also, colony populations now defend better against invasions - their defend strength has been doubled.

Thanks
Elliot



In light of the changes in the upcoming update, I've changed the limitations to allow technology selling, we'll see how it goes.




Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/22/2013 12:06:37 AM)

Edit: Technology selling is still broken but let's allow it for the fun of showing how much it changes the game!



Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/26/2013 2:02:26 AM)

Here is the 2130 result of my first 1.9.0.13 game (technology selling allowed):

Score: 2,742,354 (closest empire is 639,629)
Population: 263,118
Economy: 448,036
Colonies: 93,000 (i.e. 93)
Military: 1,881,440
Research: 29,060
Wonders: 28,000

These numbers are from the Empire Comparison screen, Achievements tab.



Flinkebeinchen -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/26/2013 6:12:00 PM)

A screenshot would be cool



Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/26/2013 11:13:32 PM)

Diplomacy screen

[image]local://upfiles/44900/822E0348191F4E15A64B86A201E1F935.jpg[/image]



Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/26/2013 11:14:49 PM)

Empire Comparison, Achievements tab (as you can see I don't finish many games!)

[image]local://upfiles/44900/C119219D1651456D9F327EFB024057EA.jpg[/image]



Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/28/2013 12:13:19 PM)

Come on you lot ... otherwise I'll have to start sledging ... [:D]



Canute0 -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/28/2013 12:34:10 PM)

Respect Icemania, a score of 2,742,354 !!!
I tryed yesterday a game with this settings and just got a score of 360k.
Its hard to survive when you just got a hullsize of 160/240 and the pirates already use 750, got shields and all the other goodies you need to research/trade first.



elanaagain -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/29/2013 4:36:42 AM)

I bow to Icemania... I can only dream of such a high score. I guess I'm frozen out of the friendly competition.



Darkspire -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/29/2013 8:01:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: elanaagain

I bow to Icemania... I can only dream of such a high score. I guess I'm frozen out of the friendly competition.


And me, I can only play on 700 10x10 with 7 players [:(]

Darkspire



Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/29/2013 8:41:10 AM)

Definitely don't want to freeze anyone out ... this was primarily intended to discuss strategy after all.

That said, feel free to name alternate settings if you like. Darkspire what are the other settings you want us to play?




Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/29/2013 9:04:11 AM)

On the strategic front it's worth highlighting just how much of a difference technology selling makes. Without technology selling my score was only about 600,000 in 2130.

Top priority is exploring widely to find other pirates, to buy contacts with other empires, and then rip them off selling technology that is high price but low value in their ability to compete in the game. Once a few empires have been found there is enough money to fund everything.

And yes, rather persistently (particularly given similar pleas to change go back several years), I'm continuing to argue the need for the developers to change this.




Darkspire -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/29/2013 9:22:58 AM)

quote:

That said, feel free to name alternate settings if you like. Darkspire what are the other settings you want us to play?


You might have to wait for that one, but it will be worth the wait, I promise [;)]

Darkspire



Darkspire -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/29/2013 9:35:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

On the strategic front it's worth highlighting just how much of a difference technology selling makes. Without technology selling my score was only about 600,000 in 2130.

Top priority is exploring widely to find other pirates, to buy contacts with other empires, and then rip them off selling technology that is high price but low value in their ability to compete in the game. Once a few empires have been found there is enough money to fund everything.

And yes, rather persistently (particularly given similar pleas to change go back several years), I'm continuing to argue the need for the developers to change this.


They did, you have a checkbox to disable it [:)]

There is absolutely no need to trade tech in DW, all it serves to do is increase cash, the rep + is not really worth mentioning, cash is really not needed at all unless you really are in a tight spot.
For tech trading to be worth bothering with it needs a total rethink and a new diplomacy system, good luck with that. Best game for an example is the GalCiv series, the tech trading, treaties etc in the diplomacy screen are a game unto themselves with the other empires. The DW diplomacy model is pretty flat and lifeless really, gave up with it moons ago as it was never likely to get better, shame but as the saying goes 'you can't have your cake and eat it', more fun to send off intelligence agents to try and get the tech or see what you can find on captured ships.

Darkspire



Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/29/2013 10:33:41 AM)

C'mon Darkspire ... ! We need to liven the place up a bit, pass on your favourite settings, we'll play on your turf ...




Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/29/2013 10:39:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkspire
They did, you have a checkbox to disable it [:)]

There is absolutely no need to trade tech in DW, all it serves to do is increase cash, the rep + is not really worth mentioning, cash is really not needed at all unless you really are in a tight spot.
For tech trading to be worth bothering with it needs a total rethink and a new diplomacy system, good luck with that. Best game for an example is the GalCiv series, the tech trading, treaties etc in the diplomacy screen are a game unto themselves with the other empires. The DW diplomacy model is pretty flat and lifeless really, gave up with it moons ago as it was never likely to get better, shame but as the saying goes 'you can't have your cake and eat it', more fun to send off intelligence agents to try and get the tech or see what you can find on captured ships.

Darkspire

While I also enjoy GalCiv and would like to see far better system in DW2, as you know from when I joined the forum, my view is if it's in the game then it should have some degree of balance. There is a quick fix ... reduce prices by a factor of 5-10. As the difficulty increases, increase the disparity between buy and sale prices for the human player.




robske -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/29/2013 3:56:33 PM)

Haven't played DW for some time. Something to do with X Rebirth, KSP and Prison Architect. But Since the new update I was thinking of having another game. I stumbled yesterday on your thread and I started a game right as I woke up. Just finished it. See the imgur gallery linked below for the screenshots I took while playing this round.

Tech trading was disabled btw.

http://imgur.com/a/b7VX3



Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/30/2013 12:58:04 AM)

Glad to inspire a game robske.

What strategy would you change in the next round? This is the real purpose of this thread.

In the early game the best way to increase revenue is to focus on your homeworld as Colonies are a drain on limited resources.

1. Looks like you could increase taxes a little on your homeworld. I normally set to tax to align with +2 happiness and monitor happiness to ensure it stays positive.
2. Once I have about 100k or so I set tax to 0% for a while to increase homeworld population.
3. Rather than investing early in Colonisation you may want to consider Advanced Medicomplex (+100% to population growth) before Ruslan Technology Installation. You may also want to consider Traders Bazaar (+30% colony income).




robske -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/30/2013 1:03:50 PM)

1. Yes.
2. Good idea.
3. Also nice.

Things I'd do differently next time:
1. Focus on troop transports instead of colonization.
2. Rush up gerax hyperdrive.
3. Design my empire a little bit differently.
4. The things you mentioned above.

Things I consider i did well:
1. Keep protection agreements with the pirates so I had almost no military.
2. Diplomacy.
3. My FTL eco.

I am gonna run another game today :) An interesting challenge which triggers you to optimize your early game :)



robske -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/30/2013 7:26:01 PM)

Did a rerun:

http://imgur.com/a/5CxEM

Did quite a lot better :D



Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (12/31/2013 10:34:54 PM)

Some great improvements there robske.

Some more strategic thoughts:

1. At the start, consider building the Energy Research Base before the Small Spaceport i.e. to get research going a little quicker.
2. With Energy Research, consider doing the two first Construction technologies earlier, due to the magnitude of benefit in what you can build.
3. Looks like you haven't found Way of the Ancients at 2130. The benefits of this Government time are huge, but to find it early, you'll need a much larger exploration fleet (and there are plenty of other goodies around).
4. There are still a lot of Pirate bases in the local area at 2130. Along the way (after a large exploration fleet is mobilised and usually as soon as I have Deucalios Shields and Shockwave Torpedoes available) consider building Pirate Extermination Fleets whose focus is destroying Pirate bases. The second wave normally has an Explorer in the fleet with a Long Range Scanner so you never run out of targets. I always clear the local area but these days I'm more careful to leave Pirates alone at long range since they will be needed to help recover reputation for future invasions.
5. And the real challenge to get your score up ... taking over enemy homeworlds!

I wonder which race is best for this challenge? I'm not sure I can go past Quameno as the research times are much faster, but haven't played these settings with many other races yet ...



robske -> RE: Friendly Challenge (1/1/2014 1:12:11 AM)

Teekans have OP eco as far as I was concerned. Integrating humans and kiadians provided good advantages.

My strategy was to skip colo techs all over and go capture indep colonies. I used the ancient guardians to keep my planets clean of corrupting influences by barbarians (or pirates if you will). So the ancients actually acted as my meatshield. I didn't have a real offensive military till one pirate faction started being capable of wiping the floor with ancient fleets. But that was by 2128.

About the pirate bases, yes. But I didn't have many protection agreements due to the ancient guardians keeping most of my space clean for no cost.

Also another thing of the teekans to consider is the bonus on civilian ship sizes. This provided huge benefits in trade. I could have a -60k cashflow while still keeping earning money. This proved very benifical for slapping my homeworld up to max pop in short time due to be able to hold 0% tax for extended periods.

Torpedos are usually my choice for base and capship busting fleets. My destroyers are generally outfitted with them. My escorts used 4x concussion missiles as weapons. The frigates same as the escorts, but with heavier shields added.

In my usual games, escorts have high speed, low defense and long range weapons. Kiting ships. Frigates hold some long range weapons and some close range weapons and an ion blaster added in for fun's sake.

Destroyers are usually the mainstay ships in fleets used for base and planet busting. They come equipped with torps, 2 troop bays, proximity array, about 800 shield points and an ion cannon. The cruisers are usually used as fleet command ships, and house hyperdeny equipment, 1500 hitpoints shields and a lot of long and close range weaponry. They are most often used to wipe enemy fleets to the floor and to attack large spaceports with defense bases.

In this game, I think I did really well. Even while it was for a long time a neck to neck race with the boskarans. They didn't rise much really, but I had to make sure I was keeping my empire expanding in population, colonies and economy. I think outside my homeworld the other colonies ran on 0% tax.



Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (1/1/2014 10:11:42 AM)

Full credit to you for increasing your score to 215k. I'm surprised that was a winning score, normally there are more than a few empires in the range 400k-600k by 2130. Getting 600k is an achievable target.

As Teekan are strong with economy keep in mind that Quameno are OP with research. In my last game Gerax was available in 2108 and Advanced Medicomplex construction was finished in 2110 (with tech trading disabled). That said, I'll have to try a Teekan game. Gizurean also looks tempting for a fast expansion game.

You mentioned both Torpedoes and Missiles, each take effort to research, there is a lot of benefit in focusing on one weapon technology in a limited time frame.

I have no permanent protection agreements, they are all temporary.






robske -> RE: Friendly Challenge (1/4/2014 7:36:33 PM)

Torpedoes were introduced by 2127. All the time before my most used weapons were based on missiles.

A mention of fun though: Even though my fleets were capable of wiping an enemy pirate base off the map in 2128, they were incapable of killing 2 600-hitpoints kaltors. Even if they had 20 ships stuck into a fleet.



Canute0 -> RE: Friendly Challenge (1/5/2014 7:22:17 AM)

kaltors need a different tactic to fight then a base who don't run around and eat your components through shields.



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