RE: T4north-center (Full Version)

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Callistrid -> RE: T4north-center (12/21/2013 11:36:04 AM)

Mktours i belive you need to guard the key cities with good troops.



mktours -> RE: T4north-center (12/21/2013 11:42:39 AM)

another counter attack in the south, which freed the 3 encircle air-drop brigades.
This minus SS div is always easy to be beat by the SHC, despite being the best weapon of GHC.

[image]local://upfiles/44785/2AC5D6E45C254DB990DA95FF557BE7E5.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: T4north-center (12/21/2013 11:47:17 AM)

I always guard cities, but sometimes I was fooled by the displayed defending CV of them. I have some bitter lessons in the later turns. Thankfully they didn't cost my the entire game, but there are some big loss in the later turns.[:)]
quote:

ORIGINAL: Callistrid

Mktours i belive you need to guard the key cities with good troops.




mktours -> T5 north (12/23/2013 11:30:17 AM)

T5 north before SHC act
There are possibly 2 HQ build up in the north-center. In this map you could also see I drive all the troops to the front, there is no a single man in Moscow.


[image]local://upfiles/44785/F20F75769C204506A4C913D2672886F3.jpg[/image]



mktours -> T5 south (12/23/2013 11:45:44 AM)

T5 south before SHC act
My final decision to move the 2 strong Calvary divs off the right bank of Dnept is disastrous( my worry about Stalino probably unjustified, as the spearhead unit is a panzer division, which is unlikely to have 47MP unless it had done a HQ build up last turn, but it is possible). The GHC Pzs suddenly released mass power, cross the big river and made a big break through.

[image]local://upfiles/44785/5946BE3354C64CF1ABA9CCD9A2F2F03A.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: T5 south (12/23/2013 11:56:26 AM)

The battle to capture D-town
2 Pzs and Wiking SS did a deliberate attack to capture D-town, which shows that their fuel in stored is surprisingly high.


[image]local://upfiles/44785/1AD7E38C11E54E3CB9E2B25010770FA7.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: T5 south (12/23/2013 12:02:55 PM)

T5 north-center SHC act
I move the mass troops to engage the GHC spearhead, they would soon to be out numbered and beat hard.

[image]local://upfiles/44785/8A2F096885214E778B1A6E6A7A713352.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: T5 south (12/23/2013 12:11:56 PM)

T5 south SHC act
I cut off the GHC spearhead, and the GHC would have to attack across the river again.
I didn't have troops to defend Stalino, all armament and vehicle industry in the city have been moved this turn, so I left it open.

[image]local://upfiles/44785/426689D29A5549A985EBDF09D2D108B0.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: T5 south (12/23/2013 12:21:31 PM)

Hi

Out of curiosity.

How often, on average each of you get increase of CV while attacking and defending? Is multipllication evenly spread across whole front or does it mainly affect area of intensive fighting with good commanders?

How many crucial battles were won and lost due to good/bad rolls? (defensive and offensive).


Just general feeling, not precise date.



mktours -> RE: T5 south (12/23/2013 12:45:15 PM)

Kamil,
I didn't study the reports. Most of the attacks were made by best leaders or super-number attack, The heavily engaged front are lead by 7 rating leaders, so there is not comparison between good leader or poor leader.
There are some clues: clear hex, super number, bombing before attack( I am surprise to see this as SHC, as when I played GHC, I felt it had completely no effect), fatigue and short of ammo on the other side.
Most of the attack did fall into 1:1>2:1 zone. So, if this rule is removed, fight forward would be suicide.
Saper has exaggerated my attacks of course, I didn't win hundreds attacks a turn.[:)]
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kamil

Hi

Out of curiosity.

How often, on average each of you get increase of CV while attacking and defending? Is multipllication evenly spread across whole front or does it mainly affect area of intensive fighting with good commanders?

How many crucial battles were won and lost due to good/bad rolls? (defensive and offensive).


Just general feeling, not precise date.




Flaviusx -> RE: T5 south (12/23/2013 12:54:04 PM)

Kamil, from recent testing, any given combat will fall under a bell curve distribution of results. The distribution will vary according to leadership, higher leadership will cluster around higher results. The more you start adding other things like SUs, reserves, and airpower, the larger the variances will be between the top and bottom of the bell curve. The exact same attack will vary each time you do it, sometimes wildly so.

If you bomb a hex before attacking it, this makes a fairly major difference. Like up to 30% more likely to win a given combat, assuming everything else being equal. It can turn close shaves into wins. Knowing this, I absolutely would insist on a house rule to forbid spam bombing.



mktours -> RE: T5 south (12/23/2013 12:56:41 PM)

I want to say something more about the 1:1>2:1 rule. As we know, this rule only exist in the soviet defending, and it result in more soviet casualty than GHC even if the SHC win the battle, for example, GHC retreat and lose 1000 men, soviet win but lose 3000-4000 men.
When the tide changes, the soviet would need 2:1 to advance, that is fair.
Good GHC would never complain about this rule. In my game with Saper, I won many battle, but he also got opportunities to send those heavy winning troops to the POW camp 1 or 2 turns later, the GHC has its own tool kits.
As SHC, counter attacks are playing with death.
Please follow this game, and you would see a game much like what happened in 1941 in history.



KamilS -> RE: T5 south (12/23/2013 7:18:32 PM)

Thanks to both of you for answers - so unfortunately new patch didn't change anything in that department.



Peltonx -> RE: T5 south (12/24/2013 7:17:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kamil

Thanks to both of you for answers - so unfortunately new patch didn't change anything in that department.


As Flaviusx stated it is nearly 100% predictable how many CV you need as SHC to win battles.

mktours is wrong or not that skilled at exploiting it as it is 100% impossible to pocket the troops that exploit the rule.

If mktours was using cav/mech/tank units they have more then enough MP's to stay far from the front, attack and them move off the front lines.

That's how Saper does it, then by blizzard you have high morale mobile units.

mktour must be new because loses can easly be replaced even on the German side this early in war, its about morale.

Kamil 1v1=2v1 is literally an I win button as it is possible for the SHC side to win 51 of 51 battles vs 2 infantry divisions in Lt. woods in July 1941, which is completely unhistorical.

.12 limited GHC by about 20% MP's on average without fuels drops ect. SO simply run for 4 turns then its easy as pie more so then it was before to counter attack and win 95% ( 100% is not out of the question ) of the time even vs 2 infantry divisions in woods.

If your not on the offensive by September 1941 as SHC your not very good.



Gabriel B. -> RE: T5 south (12/24/2013 11:21:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mktours

As SHC, counter attacks are playing with death.
Please follow this game, and you would see a game much like what happened in 1941 in history.


It is a game we like to play , otherwise the first 25 turns would mean boredom to death .



mktours -> RE: T5 south (12/25/2013 11:31:17 AM)

Gabriel,
This game has no boredom at all, each turn was full of surprise and I enjoy it very much.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gabriel B.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mktours

As SHC, counter attacks are playing with death.
Please follow this game, and you would see a game much like what happened in 1941 in history.


It is a game we like to play , otherwise the first 25 turns would mean boredom to death .




mktours -> T6 north (12/25/2013 11:37:39 AM)

With the high MPs of 56 Pz corps, which was very likely to do a HQ build up last turn, the Pzs ran into the swamps and cut off 3 strong division on level 2 forts. The situation looked serious, but I have strong reserve troops to react.


[image]local://upfiles/44785/060D56E58B7E4B2C8EEA4AF9DDE4D78D.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: T6 north (12/25/2013 11:45:04 AM)

T6 center, before SHC act.
The exhausted 3rd PzG made a hasty thrust and ran into a trap, in which they would be stuck for a long time.

[image]local://upfiles/44785/754BF07D367A4043A675A9E7960DE803.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: T6 north (12/25/2013 11:57:46 AM)

T6 south, before SHC act.
In the south, I significantly under-estimated the power of the GHC Pzs.
Saper did a very good sequence of attack to unhinge the SHC defence and break through, Kharkov has been captured!
From hindsight, I probably should use the rail capacity to react to the break through, instead of railing out the Stalinno industry.

[image]local://upfiles/44785/C48F5D6E78EF418CBA46C8EEE79BFBD4.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: T6 north (12/25/2013 12:05:54 PM)

The battle to capture Kharkov.
I did put 2 infantry division to guard the city, but obviously the displayed CV could be misleading. A bitter lesson to learn. I was expecting that the city could be locked, and my troops on the flanks would counter attack. With the city losing, my plan has been completely shattered.

[image]local://upfiles/44785/55C37067D97D451A9BD5EC54023BDF3E.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: T6 north (12/25/2013 12:21:11 PM)

T6 north, SHC act.
The GHC troops on clear hexes were beat back and a good infantry division was cut off and routed.
In the end of the turn, I railed 8 strong divisions to reinforce the front, which would be proved crucial in the battle there next turn.

[image]local://upfiles/44785/2587B51D47004AC78B242DA7A3B4CDF9.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: T6 north (12/25/2013 12:29:46 PM)

T6 center, SHC act
The spearheaded divisions got beat back, and my defense there start to take shape.

[image]local://upfiles/44785/901C532BE542408CA76C107DD85C1822.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: T6 north (12/25/2013 12:41:02 PM)

T6 south, The SHC act.
I retreat. Also could be seen in this picture that 3 divisions are in a pocket, which shows a good herding from Saper.
Saper intentionally left the space for me to cut off his spearhead, but I just ZOC locked the supply line.

[image]local://upfiles/44785/937325D33DFB4BA4ABEADC59A70CE86C.jpg[/image]



Tom Hunter -> RE: T6 north (12/30/2013 10:39:17 PM)

Given the discussions on other AARs it would be very interesting to see a battles result at the end of your turn, with some comments about counter attacks and your use of the Red Airforce.




Peltonx -> RE: T6 north (12/31/2013 12:14:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mktours

T6 north, SHC act.
The GHC troops on clear hexes were beat back and a good infantry division was cut off and routed.
In the end of the turn, I railed 8 strong divisions to reinforce the front, which would be proved crucial in the battle there next turn.

[image]local://upfiles/44785/2587B51D47004AC78B242DA7A3B4CDF9.jpg[/image]


That is allot of 1v1=2v1 counter attacks vs 3x stacks of infantry and armor.

He is not going to get close to Leningrad any time soon, if ever. The standard north to south tragedy with allot of 1v1=2v1 counter attacks mixed in, plus 15+ hex stacks.

+ the who cares about the south.

Unless he does something very quickly T-10 this is over as the wall will get higher and thinker very quickly with 15+ 1v1=2v1 counter attacks.

WW1 on the Eastern Front will begin shortly unless your not using the Mild Blizzard effects, then it will be 1943 in Dec 41.



mktours -> RE: T6 north (12/31/2013 3:46:25 AM)

@Tom
Sorry for having no time to tender to the AAR at this moment, you would see the battle report later. I am very busy these days with my work and family; so only get little leisure time.
The game with Saper is great, each turn is full of challenge and I felt each turn being as difficult as the T1. Saper is a very experienced player and plays his turns very quickly, while I need more time as it is almost my first SHC game (the only game I played as SHC was completely one sided); hence it is really an honor and privilege for me to get the chance to play with him.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

Given the discussions on other AARs it would be very interesting to see a battles result at the end of your turn, with some comments about counter attacks and your use of the Red Airforce.






mktours -> RE: T6 north (1/1/2014 12:21:24 AM)

@Tom,
This is the situation before the attack, when you get 19 attack CV against 35 defensive CV on a clear hex, it is likely to win.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

Given the discussions on other AARs it would be very interesting to see a battles result at the end of your turn, with some comments about counter attacks and your use of the Red Airforce.





[image]local://upfiles/44785/1C9EE007CF3E4B5ABF7A240A019FD707.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: T6 north (1/1/2014 12:22:22 AM)

battle result
Note, I only used 6 divisions to attack, while I could have used 9 divisions. I reserved the other 3 for another attack on another hex.
I turned off the air support.


[image]local://upfiles/44785/4EB2D73B42D2402C8A45E40E67C7B0DF.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: T6 north (1/1/2014 12:37:32 AM)

A brief report of the current situation(after T13):
The SHC suffer very heavy casualty, but looks very likely to keep both Leningrad and Moscow in 1941.
I might resume the AAR when I have more time. Thanks for following this AAR!
Happy new year!

[image]local://upfiles/44785/BCED0CA7A31549D095BFE3B23D84309C.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> RE: T6 north (1/1/2014 1:37:03 AM)

Good job MK, you appear to be a very skilled SHC player even vs one of the top 5 GHC players.

I look forward to your AAR.



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