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shaddock -> NetPlay (12/22/2013 4:54:25 PM)

I'm very curious - has anyone finished a complete turn in NetPlay?

In any scenario?

I'm sure it would give hope to many to hear that people have been getting past the first turn.



WarFighter -> RE: NetPlay (12/22/2013 6:27:43 PM)

I think your expectations of reasonable responses to your post are to high... It is a post after all...You knew what you were entering into when you committed to posting it...I think you should re-evaluate your expectations as you are obviously posting wrongly.Please read the THREE pages of rules to posting...They are compulsory and you CAN NOT post without reading them. It is NOT enough to just read them... You must request a hard copy of these rules as you can NOT post without them! [:-]

[:D]



shaddock -> RE: NetPlay (12/22/2013 6:38:58 PM)

Ouch!



WarFighter -> RE: NetPlay (12/22/2013 6:57:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: shaddock

Ouch!


For You


[image]local://upfiles/47182/3C01E731AEE2469C984A9EA80047B6F6.jpg[/image]



WarFighter -> RE: NetPlay (12/22/2013 6:58:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: shaddock

Ouch!

For the game


[image]local://upfiles/47182/CBEA928D285041B2863802DAC11D335D.jpg[/image]



shaddock -> RE: NetPlay (12/22/2013 7:05:32 PM)

wow, just wow lol!



Extraneous -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 10:30:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WarFighter

I think your expectations of reasonable responses to your post are to high... It is a post after all...You knew what you were entering into when you committed to posting it...I think you should re-evaluate your expectations as you are obviously posting wrongly.Please read the THREE pages of rules to posting...They are compulsory and you CAN NOT post without reading them. It is NOT enough to just read them... You must request a hard copy of these rules as you can NOT post without them! [:-]

[:D]


Do you mean to say that for over eight years I should not have been posting here in the forums [&:]

I have been working from the pdf copy of the rules and haven't had a hard copy in over twenty years.

If I shouldn't have been posting I do apologize [8|]




Moltke71 -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 2:22:48 PM)

Posting rules aside, the question is legitimate and I'd like to see answers.



Larz -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 2:48:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bismarck

Posting rules aside, the question is legitimate and I'd like to see answers.


I think it's pretty clear the answer is no... (Which, interestingly enough is the same answer to the question "Will this game ever have an AI?").



Moltke71 -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 3:37:59 PM)

I concur. Given the number of good WW II strategic games out there, e.g. Gary Grigby's, I think this game is looking for a niche.



Numdydar -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 3:55:21 PM)

Please give it a rest. Matrix was VERY clear PRIOR to release that there were NetPlay bugs that would prevent the game from being played that way. It is also obvious that Steve has been working very hard to eliminate these bugs (along with others) so Netplay will work properly. Persoally I think 7 patches in the same number of weeks is a pretty impressive rate of repair.

While I too like WitE, it also has had massive problems on relaese and is still being patched. So it is really no fair to compare a game that has been out for several years versus one just out a few months. I also happen to think that the AI for WiF actually has a good chance to be a pretty good one. Simply because everyone here will be able to help with the design, either through comments and/or actual beta testers. As far as I know, that is a first for a computer game to actually have the community to help design the AI. Why everyone thinks this is so bad is beyond me. If the AI turns out to be bad, then we will not be any worse off than the AI of other games. But doing it this way we actualy might have a chance to make a really good one. Wouldn't that be something [:)]



WarFighter -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 4:30:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Please give it a rest. Matrix was VERY clear PRIOR to release that there were NetPlay bugs that would prevent the game from being played that way.]


Give it a rest? Really?
Matrix Games said "These issues will be our #1 priority and we expect to have an update available by the end of next week that resolves most or all of them. We're extremely confident in the solitaire/hotseat play and the NetPlay issues are not structural but rather related to rule/action/option cases during gameplay. We do not expect all customers to encounter these issues."

NETPLAY IS BROKEN. As per the title of this thread, has anyone been able to complete a single turn? The lack of replies would suggest NO! Solitaire also has major issues! The game was released approximately 6 weeks ago and still unplayable in netplay! I bet many would not have purchased the game if they knew things would be this bad!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

While I too like WITE, it also has had massive problems on release and is still being patched. So it is really no fair to compare a game that has been out for several years versus one just out a few months.]


WITE has never been unplayable! Multiplayer has always worked as far as i know. Your comment about duration is flawed as MWIF has been in development for much longer than any other PC war game. WITE is still receiving patches to "tweak/improve" the game. Point is you can still play it in every way it was advertised to be played since release.

With regards to the programmer Steve, yes i agree he is hard working and wants to fix all problems but he chose to take on the task and is receiving monetary reward ever since it's release.

Bottom line. YOU may be happy but please DO NOT try and whitewash or belittle peoples true feelings with the current situation.

Thank you



shaddock -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 5:45:23 PM)

As a response to the above: My partner and I have been trying netplay, with all options off. And we are still never able to get past Soviet ground combat resolution.
I did post our saved games in an attempt to help resolve the issue.



Walker84 -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 6:20:24 PM)

Hey Warfighter, I guess we could have figured out sooner that you had a very serious point to make about the game's various issues if you had avoided the crypto-humorous approach in your first few posts?

While I can't comment on Netplay's capabilities having not tried it out yet, I would like to challenge the quoted assertion:

quote:

Solitaire also has major issues!


Item: In the last two weeks I have played through the entire Guadalcanal and Barbarossa scenarios solitaire without experiencing any 'major issues'. Perhaps the only issues I encountered related to my lack of knowledge of the game mechanics.

Item: In the last week, I have been playing the Global War scenario solitaire with the vast majority of optional rules enabled and have got as far as Mar/Apr 1940. There have been a few minor glitches e.g. some fragmentation when loading screens, but perhaps the only major issue I have experienced so far was a US entry options issue caused when I failed to maintain enough CPs to honour my treaty obligations. This was as much an interpretation issue as a game issue so not a high priority fix and I successfully restored the game to to an earlier save enabling me to play past the source of the problem.

As far as I am concerned solitaire is playing very well indeed, and I'm having an absolute blast with it!

Thanks






warspite1 -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 6:21:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WarFighter

WITE has never been unplayable! Multiplayer has always worked as far as i know. Your comment about duration is flawed as MWIF has been in development for much longer than any other PC war game. WITE is still receiving patches to "tweak/improve" the game. Point is you can still play it in every way it was advertised to be played since release.


warspite1

To be fair it depends on your idea of broken. MWIF net play IS broken - of that there can be no argument. But to suggest WITE is not broken (albeit you can play through turns) is, imo, wrong. WITE has a stack of issues in terms of playability - and has done since it came out. Yes, if you can actually play turns then it seems less broken (and is a more enjoyable experience) than if you can't even get past turn one. BUT ultimately the experience is still a let down either way - you just take longer to realise it and waste more time getting there.....



warspite1 -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 6:25:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Larz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bismarck

Posting rules aside, the question is legitimate and I'd like to see answers.


I think it's pretty clear the answer is no... (Which, interestingly enough is the same answer to the question "Will this game ever have an AI?").
warspite1

You know that do you? Funny, there were many posts like this from people confidently stating that MWIF would NEVER come out.

I suspect there will be as much chance of a "sorry I was wrong" from you re the AI, as there has been from those naysayers re MWIF...



Dabrion -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 6:36:22 PM)

Money back..



warspite1 -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 7:05:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

Money back..
warspite1

Did you get it back?



Centuur -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 7:31:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

Money back..
warspite1

Did you get it back?



Now, let's look at this from the legal perspective. According to European Consumer Law, any customer is entitled to a refund if the product delivered is not functioning AND the supplier doesn't seem to do anything about it. It's the last part of this, that's important. As long as Matrix is showing that they are repairing the product (and doesn't take an unreasonable long time to get this working correctly) there is no way Mr. Dabrion will get his money back. Now, if Matrix hadn't stated the defects, than things would be different. Since Matrix has done so, Mr. Dabrion can only get his money back if MWIF isn't playable in solitair.
How nice it is, that I've started a couple of weeks back together with a lawyer on revising the companies terms of delivery. This came up in the conversations two weeks ago.
For Mr. Dabrion, he has to wait until any judge will say that it takes Matrix too long to fix Netplay...



vicberg -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 7:55:55 PM)

It's very playable. I'm in the US playing someone in Italy. Have an AAR going if interested. We are playing PBEM by setting the game up as solitaire and passing the files back and forth or asking questions and moving the other player's pieces if easy enough. We have the "set dice rolls" option on and use ACTS, an online dice roller, and then enter the dice rolls.

So far, no issues. None. It's handling supply & combat, especially the complexity of 2D10, perfectly, including who can call the charts, AT divs, etc.. No issues at all.

So let me say this having played WIF every day via Vassal for a quite a while now. An AI will be extremely difficult to make challenging, so if you bought it for AI, probably a mistake. Not that it can't be done, but WIF is an extremely diverse strategic game, with many many choices and options every impulse of every turn. If someone can create an AI that's somewhat challenging, my hats off. WITE is a walk in the woods compared to this game in terms of an AI. No choices on production in WITE. Clear attack avenues and about 50 less objectives and 50 less ways of achieving those objectives. I like WITE very much and have played it. But comparing WITE to MWIF is comparing apples and oranges.

Netplay? Good luck even if it's working. This is a very complex and very long game. Sitting around and watching someone take 1-2 hours to move their pieces so I can then react is not my idea of fun. PBEM is far better anyway, and guess what, you can already do PBEM, right now, if motivated.



Numdydar -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 8:06:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WarFighter


Matrix Games said "These issues will be our #1 priority and we expect to have an update available by the end of next week that resolves most or all of them. We're extremely confident in the solitaire/hotseat play and the NetPlay issues are not structural but rather related to rule/action/option cases during gameplay. We do not expect all customers to encounter these issues."



So they were wrong about how fast they could get things fixed. Complaining is NOT solving the problem. The people trying to do NetPlay and sending in save games are the ones that are really helping to find all the quirks that the limited number of beta testers were able to find before release. To me those people are the ones that are doing more than just complaining.

I agree with Warsprite in that WitE is definately broken as far as long term play goes. If all you are doing is playing the Road to ... and/or other scenerios, then things in the game are not bad. Just like if you play WiF Barbarosa. But anything larger in WitE is definately still broken and 2x3 has stated that there are no further plans to improve the game. If it was not for a single individual (like Steve but with no pay) willing to try and improve things, WitE would be in even worse shape, even with an AI, than WiF is now. If WitE is broken, who cares if multiplayer works or not as no one is going to play it anyway. So again not a far comparision. I have pleny of games where muliplayer works just fine, but I would never play them beacuse of the underlying game.

I also agree with him about solitare. I am in July/Aug 1940 and having a blast as well. Using the latest patches of course. Have I run into some issues, yes mainly minor ones. I just simply either patch the game with a new patch or back up and try something different. But as the issues I have found are minor, I usually just keep playing.

I also convienced a friend to buy the game and we too have been trying to play Netplay with out success in getting through a turn. But you know what? Rather than complaining "Woe is us.", we just play OTHER games togeather (shocking I know) while WiF gets the NetPlay issues fixed. Are we still having fun, Yes. Are we disappointed that we can't play WiF, Yes. Are we so bent out of shape about it we have to discuss getting legal advice about getiing a refund, No.

While everyone has every right to feel the way they do about WiF and to express their views publicly, it just seems that time could be better spend either helping fix the game like i and others here are trying to do or go do something else for a while. If your finances are so tight the $100+ you spent on the game makes a difference in your life, then you simply should not have bought the game.

If it is the principle of the matter, then express your views, respond as needed and then move on. It is not like we do not understand or appriciate your viewpoints. It is just expressing the same points over and over again is not helping anyone.

Just to be clear I am not talking about shaddock as he has been a big help in finding issues and supporting the game imho.



vicberg -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 8:13:30 PM)


quote:

I also convienced a friend to buy the game and we too have been trying to play Netplay with out success in getting through a turn. But you know what? Rather than complaining "Woe is us.", we just play OTHER games togeather (shocking I know) while WiF gets the NetPlay issues fixed. Are we still having fun, Yes. Are we disappointed that we can't play WiF, Yes. Are we so bent out of shape about it we have to discuss getting legal advice about getiing a refund, No.


Play PBEM. It's doable, right now.



Sabre21 -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 8:17:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg

It's very playable. I'm in the US playing someone in Italy. Have an AAR going if interested. We are playing PBEM by setting the game up as solitaire and passing the files back and forth or asking questions and moving the other player's pieces if easy enough. We have the "set dice rolls" option on and use ACTS, an online dice roller, and then enter the dice rolls.

So far, no issues. None. It's handling supply & combat, especially the complexity of 2D10, perfectly, including who can call the charts, AT divs, etc.. No issues at all.

So let me say this having played WIF every day via Vassal for a quite a while now. An AI will be extremely difficult to make challenging, so if you bought it for AI, probably a mistake. Not that it can't be done, but WIF is an extremely diverse strategic game, with many many choices and options every impulse of every turn. If someone can create an AI that's somewhat challenging, my hats off. WITE is a walk in the woods compared to this game in terms of an AI. No choices on production in WITE. Clear attack avenues and about 50 less objectives and 50 less ways of achieving those objectives. I like WITE very much and have played it. But comparing WITE to MWIF is comparing apples and oranges.

Netplay? Good luck even if it's working. This is a very complex and very long game. Sitting around and watching someone take 1-2 hours to move their pieces so I can then react is not my idea of fun. PBEM is far better anyway, and guess what, you can already do PBEM, right now, if motivated.


I personally prefer netplay. I just don't see emailing back and forth the game every time it requires a decision by your opponent. What I like about Netplay is that I can see my opponents move real time. It hasn't taken very long to go thru an entire impulse when things work properly. Where we have our headaches is with all the crashes and having to find a compatible earlier save that will reload.

I've also had pretty serious issues in solitaire mode, just like the one I recently posted about shipping troops to N. Africa. But I know these things happen and will get fixed.

As for an AI, I believe Steve and company have been working on the AI for quite some time now but it just wasn't ready for release. I am confident we will see an AI within 3 to 6 months that will improve with age just as what has been done with WitE.

WitE did work very well on release, but just as in any complex game, there were issues that had to be fixed. There are production issues by the way for the Russian AI in that game, but nothing on the scale of what MWiF is going to require. Steve has his work cut out for him and I am thankful that there are guys like him and Gary Grigsby and the like that are so dedicated to this hobby. Without them where would the rest of us be?




vicberg -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 8:24:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

I personally prefer netplay. I just don't see emailing back and forth the game every time it requires a decision by your opponent. What I like about Netplay is that I can see my opponents move real time. It hasn't taken very long to go thru an entire impulse when things work properly. Where we have our headaches is with all the crashes and having to find a compatible earlier save that will reload.


I totally understand. I'm just trying to point out that if you want to play MWIF right now, you can.

Having come from the Vassal universe, though a Netplay "type" of play is supported in Vassal, most players prefer PBEM, especially in late 42 and on when there's war in the Pacific, Asia, Russia, Europe, Med and possibly even Africa. Being online becomes a sort of a waste as it takes time to get your moves done and the other guy doesn't want to sit there and watch for a long time.

The only caveat to the Vassal "netplay" is if you have multiple players. Then online play is worthwhile. It's much easier to move a single country than trying to manage 3 or more.



shaddock -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 8:32:02 PM)

Well I can say my partner and I do have fun playing netplay. It's also with some frustration having to save, almost after every phase, in case we crash.
We are still going to try with each update. And yes, there are indeed other games to play.

PBEM with this game holds little to no interest to me, because of all the interaction and the constant e-mailing back and forth.

I'm trying to take a long term view, eventually the game will be playable. And If I can help with saved games gone bad, then so much the better.



Sabre21 -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 8:36:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

I personally prefer netplay. I just don't see emailing back and forth the game every time it requires a decision by your opponent. What I like about Netplay is that I can see my opponents move real time. It hasn't taken very long to go thru an entire impulse when things work properly. Where we have our headaches is with all the crashes and having to find a compatible earlier save that will reload.


I totally understand. I'm just trying to point out that if you want to play MWIF right now, you can.

Having come from the Vassal universe, though a Netplay "type" of play is supported in Vassal, most players prefer PBEM, especially in late 42 and on when there's war in the Pacific, Asia, Russia, Europe, Med and possibly even Africa. Being online becomes a sort of a waste as it takes time to get your moves done and the other guy doesn't want to sit there and watch for a long time.


I'm interested in seeing how Steve gets PBEM to work with this game and what kind, if any, streamlining might be needed to get the process to work quicker. Fortunately for me, Bloodybill only lives a few miles away and when we play we are talking to one another on the phone during Netplay. Helps a lot when we are trying to work our way thru a bug.

I've done vassal before on other games, just not WiF.



vicberg -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 8:37:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: shaddock

Well I can say my partner and I do have fun playing netplay. It's also with some frustration having to save, almost after every phase, in case we crash.
We are still going to try with each update. And yes, there are indeed other games to play.


If it's a two player game, all I can say is that in later parts of the game it becomes time consuming to do turns. PBEM works much better. Files back and forth are easy to do and I don't have to commit a block of time when I have family commitments or sit and watch someone move, when I have other things I can be doing. I simply click on the send/receive button, save the file and do my stuff, save the game and send back. Easy.

Again, it's a matter of preference, so I have no issues with people wanting netplay. But netplay for two player at least, will not be the be all end all that everyone seems to be expecting here. I'm not sure how many have actually played a game into 43+ against another player in a 2 player game. It can take an hour plus just to do an impulse. Heck it can take an hour just to PLAN an impulse as you need to plan naval moves, ground strikes, odds, ground support, HQ support, div placements, invasions, paradrops, etc., etc. across this massive map. Just saying



shaddock -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 8:44:26 PM)

Ok are you just sending the .gam files over and copying over them each time?
how do you handle interceptions?



vicberg -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 8:49:09 PM)

Depends. If it's simple, I'll send a message saying you have a 5 FTR in range of 5551. Do you want to intercept? He answers yes or no. If yes, I'll move the FTR for him. So I'll take it to his intercept phase and then ask him or send him file if I have a bunch of ground strikes. He does his intercepts and then sends back. The actual time it takes to manage the files is minimal. We have a naming convention for managing the files so we can always go back if a mistake is made. The ACTS online dice roller maintains a complete history of every roll so we can roll back if a mistake is made entering dice rolls.

Piece of cake. We are both having a great time playing this scenario. No showstopper problems so far. I'm itching to do global war.

And yes, we send the GAM files back and forth.



Dabrion -> RE: NetPlay (12/23/2013 9:05:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

Money back..
warspite1

Did you get it back?



Now, let's look at this from the legal perspective. According to European Consumer Law, any customer is entitled to a refund if the product delivered is not functioning AND the supplier doesn't seem to do anything about it. It's the last part of this, that's important. As long as Matrix is showing that they are repairing the product (and doesn't take an unreasonable long time to get this working correctly) there is no way Mr. Dabrion will get his money back. Now, if Matrix hadn't stated the defects, than things would be different. Since Matrix has done so, Mr. Dabrion can only get his money back if MWIF isn't playable in solitair.
How nice it is, that I've started a couple of weeks back together with a lawyer on revising the companies terms of delivery. This came up in the conversations two weeks ago.
For Mr. Dabrion, he has to wait until any judge will say that it takes Matrix too long to fix Netplay...


European Consumer Law? Nice pipe dream.. Besides, I do not think "Netplay is not working" would be the issue of Mr. Dabrion. It would also make a ridiculous court case ;)

p.s.: if anyone is interested in ganging up on Matrix/Slitherine to mitigate expenses, please contact me.



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