Russian Supply Problems (Full Version)

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Oshawott -> Russian Supply Problems (2/18/2014 9:28:21 PM)

I noticed 5 Russian armies with 0% supplies on turn 30. I don't understand why they don't receive supplies. There are enough vehicles in the pool and distance to railhead is either 0 or below 8 MP.

On turn 38 I still have 1 army with 0% supplies. Can someone explain this?





[image]local://upfiles/46668/FEABE2E521ED455DA21FF9AF85CF04B9.jpg[/image]



Oberst_Klink -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/18/2014 9:33:50 PM)

Well... a look at the map, incl. RR connections and so on would be quite helpful to figure our why they ain't getting any vodka and so on...

Klink, Oberst



Oshawott -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/18/2014 9:39:30 PM)

I wrote in my post that distance to railhead is either 0 or below 8MP.



Oberst_Klink -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/18/2014 9:59:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Oshawott

I wrote in my post that distance to railhead is either 0 or below 8MP.

Oops! Still, it would help to see the map and examine it with the eyes of a Polonvik of the Shtab :)
What version ya's running mate? 1.07.13 with hotfix?

Klink, Oberst



Oshawott -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/18/2014 10:41:12 PM)

Newest version with hotfix. Screenshot of the map would just show an army on rail line near Kalinin. I might post the map when I get the next turn.



karonagames -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/19/2014 3:00:06 PM)

I think it has to do with the amount of supply you used to make 200+ attacks per turn for 13 turns during the blizzard to turn my infantry divisions into a bloody pulp!!

Hope I have enough supply to exact my revenge :)



Denniss -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/19/2014 8:06:47 PM)

Global supply stock seems almost drained, indicated by the low percentage shown in HQ supply menu.



Oshawott -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/20/2014 2:27:41 AM)

As you can see from the above screenshot Global Supply Stock is at 243%. This should not be the problem.

For some reason the Army is not linked to a Supply/Fuel Source (Town/City). It therefore receives 0 supplies even so it is very close to the rail head. This is indicated by the hyphen. The number in brackets is the demand of the army.

On Turn 40 I still have 3 armies that receive 0 supplies and 1 army that is linked to a supply source with almost no supplies. Why are armies not automatically linking to a supply source? And why do some towns only have fuel and not supplies stockpiled?

Additional screenshots for two armies that don't receive supplies



[image]local://upfiles/46668/4C337F6957824BC482F165611A245D85.jpg[/image]



carlkay58 -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/20/2014 10:13:55 AM)

I think you should remember that you are looking at a screen where the Stores have been distributed to your troops and then consumed already this turn. So what you have left is AFTER your supplies have been consumed while the fuel and ammo supplies have yet to be used. HQs usually have low stocks of Ammo since they mostly consist of support troops who rarely fight. So during the supply phase the HQs gather supplies of all types depending on the needs of their command. They then distribute the supplies to their subordinate units. All units then consume Stores.

Note that your combat unit has about 58% ammo after all of this. So you are having problems getting supplies to the combat units, but the stores are getting through and being used up in the same turn. What is your ARM Pts like? I seem to recall that you must expend some Arm Pts to convert the generic store supplies into ammo. I would also look at the size of the Soviet army. How many men do you have under arms? Have you been building up your strength? Also is it early 42? (I can't remember the turn to date at this point.) In early 42 you have a lot of changes going on in the Soviet industrial production along with still bringing some of the railed out industry back into production.



Oshawott -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/20/2014 11:04:51 AM)

180000 arm points in pool. Troop strength is 7,2 mio.

Please note that there is no link to the supply source in the above screen shots. I am unable to explain this or maybe I just don't understand the logistic system. The army doesn't link to a supply source and therefore doesn't receive any supplies even so it is very close to rail head.



morvael -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/20/2014 6:43:29 PM)

Please post saves here. I would like to check them. It could be a bug. The city might be selected properly, but not enough supplies may arrive there, resulting in starvation.



morvael -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/20/2014 6:47:54 PM)

Where's Nelidovo and Olenino? Show us map. Maybe cut-off cities are selected for supply centers? Or not connected to rail system?



Oshawott -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/20/2014 6:50:48 PM)

Thank you for taking a look at this. However, it is a server game:

Oshawott vs. XLAnorak

I continue to have 4 to 5 armies with either no supplies or extremely limited supplies. One army is sitting on rail line between front and Moscow and has 0% supplies for at least 3 turns.

Is there any other information I can provide with screenshots?



Oshawott -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/20/2014 6:53:34 PM)

quote:

Where's Nelidovo and Olenino? Show us map. Maybe cut-off cities are selected for supply centers? Or not connected to rail system?


There are both connected to the rail net.

Nelidovo = X90, Y42
Olenino = X92, Y43



Oshawott -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/24/2014 5:19:17 PM)

What does the number displayed for "Supply Stores" actually mean? If this number is higher then what is required shouldn't all troops get the needed supplies. Yet, I am about 15000 supplies short in my units. Unfortunately, this shortage is not evenly distributed across the front. Some armies simply get 0 supplies. Is there any system on how supplies get distributed. I like supply shortages for the Russian army because it adds realism. But 0% supplies for armies is a little bit silly.



morvael -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/24/2014 6:59:16 PM)

Do you play a solo game or PBEM? Make sure you play identical version as your opponent. Show us global supply stats. Best of all would be saves though.



morvael -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/24/2014 7:03:03 PM)

There may be a problem with supply stocks below 300% or 400% as shown in the hq supply screen. This percentage is based on what the units really need, but supplies are distributed to cities first, based on pre-replacement needs that are multiplied by some factor. It may be so, that there is not enough to fill all cities up to their need (and this is part of code I didn't touch in the patches), and they are supplied on a first-come first-served basis instead of a proportional fill.



Oshawott -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/24/2014 7:31:00 PM)

I will provide screenshots later.

I am fearful that the problem is caused by the cities being filled on a first-come basis combined with armies always linking to the closest city. In the above example Nelidovo and Olenino have 0 supplies but Rzehv which is not that much further away had plenty of supplies.

I started moving air plane factories to reduce production. I also put the entire long range bomber fleet into reserve. I think this might relieve some of the supply problems.



Denniss -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/25/2014 5:10:25 AM)

How many Heavy industry points do you have?
Die you move all of them back to Sibiria or did you deliberately left some to capture following some old "Tips" ?



morvael -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/25/2014 6:03:25 AM)

I agree this is a weak point of the supply system that remains despite my patches. I focused more on city-HQ-unit chain, rather than city-city which is separate procedure. It should be redone to guarantee proportional distribution in case of shortages.

For now you can only help yourself by conserving supplies to build up stocks - moving factories, sending bombers and transports to reserves, not building new units, reducing max TOEs - all this will help. With the stocks back to high levels, all units will start getting supplies. For a specific army to get supplies try moving it into (or closer to) other cities. I guess those with lower index (you can see their index using editor) get first shot at getting supplies.



Denniss -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/25/2014 7:59:30 AM)

200+ attacks per turn sounds like the whole red army is in action, even in reality this wasn't possible without running in serious logistic trouble. Let some units rest, merge some depleted units, re-attach them to Stavka if they are starving.
If you don't plan to use the U-2VS (ground attack version) just move one point of each factory to the Urals - saves not a lot but it's a start (keep the recon and transport version).



Oshawott -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/25/2014 6:20:24 PM)

Thanks for the advice. I have already implemented most of these suggestions but there is a limit to what I am willing to do. I moved IL-4, LaGG3 and U2-VS production because I already have enough of them in the pool. I could do the same with IL-2 and T34 and other equipment but I would rather like to see how the supply problems play out over time. I also put the long range bomber fleet, some tactical bombers and the entire MiG-3 fleet into reserve.

There are enough supplies in general but they are not reaching certain armies. The following screenshots (sorry for the mess) show that 48th Army is linked to Kirishi which has no supplies. Bugodoshch is only 3 hexes away and is linked to 55th Army which only draws 500+ supplies from the city. I guess the only way to make certain that every army gets supplies is to have enough supplies for every city on the map. There are many cities with lots of supplies that are not linked to any army/front.



[image]local://upfiles/46668/263457838B06498183EF3C34F16188FD.jpg[/image]



morvael -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/26/2014 5:45:34 AM)

Could you provide the saves (for two consecutive turns)? Is this a PBEM game?



Oshawott -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/26/2014 12:51:15 PM)

morvael, this is a server game. Sorry about that.

There is something else I noted. The soft factor indicators don't always work as intended. As you can see from the screenshot the unit has 6% supplies but the triangle is dark green. I am mentioning this because this happens to units in armies that don't receive any supplies. Or is ammunition counted?



[image]local://upfiles/46668/09D1F8A03B824E499EC820FBD6EBE2FD.jpg[/image]



morvael -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/26/2014 1:24:07 PM)

Ammo is included as it didn't have it's own soft factor.

Are you sure your opponent is playing on the same version as you are? What version is that? Perhaps you play without the hotfix?



Oshawott -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/26/2014 2:18:37 PM)

quote:

Are you sure your opponent is playing on the same version as you are? What version is that? Perhaps you play without the hotfix?


The admin report displays version 1.07.13. So I think my opponent is playing with the correct version.

My game menu displays this. I hope this is correct.





[image]local://upfiles/46668/B64C2E8E42CF4E9F874D3AD44565BF42.jpg[/image]



morvael -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/26/2014 3:15:48 PM)

What is shown in the logistics report at the end?



Oshawott -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/26/2014 3:27:06 PM)

quote:

What is shown in the logistics report at the end?


1.07.13. File attached




karonagames -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/26/2014 7:27:48 PM)

I am playing with the .13 exe.



gingerbread -> RE: Russian Supply Problems (2/26/2014 7:46:33 PM)

@Oshawott: Did you by any chance relocate a lot of HI to the same location?

I once placed a lot of HI in Zlatoust (180,43) and there was a lot of supply accumulated there.



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