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tracer -> bad day (2/1/2003 9:49:18 PM)

I was waiting to hear the familiar sonic boom as the shuttle landed this morning about 20 miles from my home. Then my wife told me to come and see what was on TV....




Goblin -> (2/1/2003 10:22:17 PM)

:(


Goblin




Don Doom -> (2/1/2003 10:28:57 PM)

:( :( :( :( :( :( :(




Jim1954 -> (2/1/2003 10:44:18 PM)

My wife heard the "boom" this morning around 8a cst.

:( :( :( :(




Belisarius -> (2/1/2003 10:49:47 PM)

:( :( :(




Orzel Bialy -> Not What You Want to Wake Up To... (2/1/2003 10:56:07 PM)

a sad day for our nation indeed. Our Prayers and condolences to the crews families.

:( :( :( :( :(




BryanMelvin -> Re: Not What You Want to Wake Up To... (2/1/2003 11:15:56 PM)

Very sad day indeed

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(




M4Jess -> (2/2/2003 3:34:39 AM)

:( :( :( :( :(
:( :( :( :( :(




Hades -> (2/2/2003 3:40:57 AM)

:( Yeah not a good day.




Bernie -> Stunned (2/2/2003 4:31:13 AM)

I'm simply stunned... This forum thread was the first I heard of this disaster. :(




chief -> (2/2/2003 4:44:34 AM)

It takes very brave men and women to be astronauts, may their next assignment be easier.




BORO -> consider this (2/2/2003 5:12:42 AM)

Yes indeed a bad day for us. But, how about the first astronaut from Israel being on board, now not only the first up in space but the first to give his life in space for his country.:( :(




Capt. Pixel -> (2/2/2003 6:07:21 AM)

ummm :( [I]speechless[/I]




tracer -> (2/2/2003 6:30:25 AM)

It hits just way too close to home. My pharmacy's literally across the river from launch pads 39A and 39B, which the shuttles take off from...a large part of the local economy is tied to KSC. :(




Huffy -> (2/2/2003 7:03:51 AM)

sad day indeed....thoughts and prayers are with the astronauts and the families.
Huffy




Don Doom -> (2/2/2003 8:15:29 AM)

It is too early to tell but it is and has been reported the following:


[QUOTE]In Hemphill, near the Louisiana line, hospital employee Mike Gibbs reported finding what appeared to be a charred torso, thigh bone and skull on a rural road near what was believed to be other debris. Billy Smith, a Texas Department of Public Safety spokesman, confirmed the find. He said authorities had roped off the area and were collecting evidence.[/QUOTE]
:(:(




M4Jess -> (2/2/2003 8:34:35 AM)

Again.............


:( :( :( :( :(
:( :( :( :( :(




CPT Shoe -> (2/2/2003 2:18:48 PM)

:(

Taps rings loud and clear for the brave explorers of the last frontier. My thoughts are with the families.




Figmo -> (2/2/2003 10:48:34 PM)

Very sad!!

It is way too early but it could be the pieces that fell off when they took off may have something to do with it.

Does anybody know how carefully they checked that before coming back in?

Figmo
:( :( :( :(




Goblin -> (2/2/2003 11:43:36 PM)

As I understand, they didn't. A spacewalk was not permitted, or not asked for, not sure which.

I suspect that it was the cause of it, but we shall have to see.

Goblin


-NASA 1992 Budget $15 Billion
-NASA 2002 Budget $15 Billion (Needed $19 Billion just to stay even with inflation)




Orzel Bialy -> (2/3/2003 12:20:10 AM)

Here's what the AP has reported as far as the damage and what was known about it and what could have been done about it....unfortunately the answer was: nothing. :(

"Dittemore said that even if the astronauts had gone out on an emergency spacewalk, there was no way a spacewalker could have safely checked under the wings, which bear the brunt of re-entry heat.

The shuttle was not equipped with its 50-foot robot arm because it was not needed during this research mission, and so the astronauts did not have the option of using the arm's cameras to get a look at the damage.

And even if they did find damage, ``there's nothing that we can do about tile damage once we get to orbit,'' Dittemore said. ``We can't minimize the heating to the point that it would somehow not require a tile.'' "

As reported by Marcia Dunn
Copyright 2003 The Associated Press




Goblin -> (2/3/2003 2:02:55 AM)

Yes, several points... SAFELY?!? We could not safely have an astronaut spacewalk... OMG. Yeah, much better this way.

Let them spacewalk, see the damage, and then go from there. Rope the walker with bed sheets or something.

Goblin




Belisarius -> (2/3/2003 2:16:12 AM)

It's easy to be wise with the facts at hand....

But I suppose they could've thrown a guy outside and make him look; even if rushed to the extreme, would it have been possible to launch a rescue shuttle? (It normally takes a YEAR or so to prepare one for mission) Possibly with repair tiles as well?

I bet the Russians would have found out a way, using a sledgehammer and some duct tape strapped to a rocket booster. ;) I mean, they could fix and run the MIR beyond all safety limits...

Now, that said we don't know yet if it was in fact damaged tiles that caused this tragedy. :rolleyes:




Goblin -> (2/3/2003 2:39:10 AM)

I'm no expert, but I will wager someone could have tried something had they found the damage. Maybe they might have been able to link up with the space station. Even if not, they would have at least been able to say goodbye to their families before making the attempt.

Goblin




Voriax -> (2/3/2003 3:56:12 AM)

About those tiles...I think there must've been rather considerable damage. If my memory serves me right, during the very first shuttle flight there was quite a lot of concern about whether the tiles will stay put or drop away...and I just checked and during STS-1 they lost _16_ tiles and 148 were damaged.

So obviously a loss of few tiles wasn't a problem back then and shouldn't been now. Of course some locations are more critical than others.

As for repairing those tiles. They are such high-precision jobs I seriously doubt there is any way to scrape off a damaged tile in space and replace it with new one, and do it well. however, I recall seeing (from some shuttle related science program) astronauts training to use stuff called Nomex??. It was red stuff sprayed from small containers and it was supposed to be used for patching holes left by missing/damaged tiles. I wonder what happened to that training/chemical. Was it ignored when they saw that couple tiles won't matter?

Voriax




tracer -> (2/3/2003 5:20:23 AM)

[I]If[/I] launch damage was to blame, count on the space program to learn from this and move forward...don't be surprised to see cans of NASA's version of Fix-a-Flat on future flights (at $1400 a pop) :)

For all its resilience and strength, the shuttle is still a fragile vehicle. The workers out at the Cape refer to it as a 'butterfly on a bullet'.




Bernie -> (2/3/2003 9:52:33 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tracer
[B][I]If[/I] launch damage was to blame, count on the space program to learn from this and move forward...don't be surprised to see cans of NASA's version of Fix-a-Flat on future flights (at $1400 a pop) :)

For all its resilience and strength, the shuttle is still a fragile vehicle. The workers out at the Cape refer to it as a 'butterfly on a bullet'. [/B][/QUOTE]

I find it dumbfounding to believe that NASA has never had a contingency plan for repairing a damaged shuttle in orbit. We knew from the start that the only thing keeping a shuttle safe during re-entry was the tiles. We worried from the start what would happen if some were lost or damaged. They're telling us now that in the [I]two decades[/I] the shuttles have been flying we still haven't come up with something better than "leave it up there" and send another shuttle to rescue the crew? And they got this by congress?? Yeah, I can hear [I]that[/I] congressional budget meeting... "You mean to tell me, Mr. Director, that if a damaged shuttle, from a meteorite, launch damage, junk debris, whatever, is up in orbit, we can't fix it, or get it back? And these shuttles cost HOW much each?" "Well Senator, we just don't have the capacity to fix something like that in space." "Mr. Director, you will develop and demonstrate a system to do just that, or you will not get another nickle of funding on this project! Meeting adjourned!"

Sheesh! How about a couple of blocks of ceramic based epoxy for a start? Sure, it may not be perfect, but it has to be better than nothing. We're talking about what, 2,000 degrees? I can think of a couple off-the-shelf products that can handle those temps. And for another matter, NASA has long been concerned that if one tile came off the air hitting the exposed edge of the next tile in line might peel it off, and the next, and the next. Well, why not bevel the leading and trailing edges and overlap them? Like a snake's scales?




rlc27 -> (2/3/2003 12:10:29 PM)

I think it's time we dispense with the whole space shuttle concept as is, and design a new spacecraft using all of the technology and materials designed during the past 20+ years. The basic shuttle design dates to 1977! To still be using that in 2003 is like pasting a tie fighter from Star Wars A New Hope into Attack of the Clones. While the shuttles have been refurbished and upgraded with new electronics, there must be better materials available that will make the craft more durable and able to deal with contingencies. Let alone new propulsion systems that will allow the shuttle to be more versatile in its functions--orbiting, and reorbiting, from the upper atmostphere,and perhaps with the ability to leave orbit altogether. Carl Sagan suggested that we had the tech to build this kind of ship years ago, so why haven't we done it? Even the SR-71 could skim the edge of the atmosphere, and that was in the 60's. And it takes less energy to take off and ascend at an angle than it does to blast off straight into space, but we're just sooo attached to rockets and boosters, even though they are far more dangerous than "old fashion" ramjets and high-lift airfoils.

If the "broken foam insulation" theory turns out to be true, then both lost shuttles will have been the victim of minor malfunctions during liftoff, both of which led to major disasters--the POS Morton Thiokol O-ring on Challenger, and a falling piece of Pink Panther on Columbia.

It is interesting to note that the temperature rise was inside the landing gear bay at first. Since it appears that losing a few tiles doesn't do too much, how about if a bay door was left partly open or didn't seal correctly? Impossible to tell, I know, but it seems just as likely as the missing tile theory--I recall that they had to replace some of them after every single flight.




rlc27 -> (2/3/2003 12:13:26 PM)

oh and PS, Goblin, I like your new avatar, but miss the old one.

Did you ever see a book by, I think it was Brian Froud, that was made as a complement to the movie "Labyrinth?" It is all about Goblins.




Goblin -> (2/3/2003 1:35:24 PM)

No, haven't seen it. Fear not! I will change my avatar yet again! Right now though, the Hiss Squad and I are kicking Jess butt.:rolleyes:

Goblin




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