RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (Full Version)

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rkr1958 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (7/27/2014 2:27:09 AM)

Another weird one and have the saved game. In the Eastern Med, the allies are trying to Initiate (Naval) Combat; however, when I click on the "Initiate Combat" button it flashes and nothing else happens. If I select the Bay of Biscay and try to Initiate Combat there it works.

Paris has been captured by the Germans and France is on the ropes. Would this prevent combat in the Eastern Med because the French navy is in the sea area?

[image]local://upfiles/31901/AA5E8B7D02434B489317D54435C11B0A.jpg[/image]



paulderynck -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (7/27/2014 3:01:02 AM)

No, it should not prevent initiation.



Centuur -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (7/27/2014 9:40:58 AM)

I don't think that saved game is of any use if things "magically" are corrected when you restore it...



rkr1958 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (7/27/2014 12:36:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

I don't think that saved game is of any use if things "magically" are corrected when you restore it...
Now this second potential issue / bug does not resolve itself when I reload. That is, when I try to initiate combat in the Eastern Med, I can't. I've attached the game file for that. Do I need to post this in the tech / bug report forum too?



rkr1958 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (7/27/2014 3:34:30 PM)

Now going off in another direction ...

Last turn (Mar/Apr 40) after Italy DOW France, I had an Italian army (i.e., 3 corps) in Libya on the border with Egypt. I had planned to rush them into Egypt but couldn't. I though, ahh ... the Italian's must have to DOW Egypt and I looked over that in the DOW minor countries phase. But on the next axis impulse I saw there is no Egypt included in the list of DOW'able minor countries. So my question is,

How do the Italians go about "invading" Egypt from Libya (or from anywhere else)?



Courtenay -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (7/27/2014 4:14:22 PM)

Egypt is an CW aligned minor country. For the Italians to attack it, they must be at war with the CW.

If the Italians are at war with the CW and can't attack Egypt, something is wrong.



paulderynck -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (7/27/2014 4:17:40 PM)

You have to DoW an already aligned country's controller, but you (can or may) DoW majors separately. So, if it's CW-controlled, you must DoW the CW. DoWing France does not mean you've DoW'd the CW. Doing them together on the same impulse saves US Entry but spreads Italy pretty thin in terms of taking advantage of the Surprise impulse. A strategy many players use is to DoW only France in the hopes of doing dirt in the West Med area with the CW too afraid of the US Entry impact of DoWing Italy. Even if they go ahead with a DoW, a careful player may lose little (or nothing with bad search rolls by the CW) and then the US entry for DoWing France can get cancelled by the US Entry for a CW DoW on Italy.

Getting the US in the war a few turns earlier of later has a gigantic impact in the game.



rkr1958 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (7/27/2014 4:22:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

Egypt is an CW aligned minor country. For the Italians to attack it, they must be at war with the CW.

If the Italians are at war with the CW and can't attack Egypt, something is wrong.


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

You have to DoW an already aligned country's controller, but you (can or may) DoW majors separately. So, if it's CW-controlled, you must DoW the CW. DoWing France does not mean you've DoW'd the CW. Doing them together on the same impulse saves US Entry but spreads Italy pretty thin in terms of taking advantage of the Surprise impulse. A strategy many players use is to DoW only France in the hopes of doing dirt in the West Med area with the CW too afraid of the US Entry impact of DoWing Italy. Even if they go ahead with a DoW, a careful player may lose little (or nothing with bad search rolls by the CW) and then the US entry for DoWing France can get cancelled by the US Entry for a CW DoW on Italy.

Getting the US in the war a few turns earlier of later has a gigantic impact in the game.
I didn't realize that Italy also had to DOW CW. I thought a DOW on France meant that Italy would also be at war with the CW.

Could this also explain why the allies couldn't initiate combat in the Eastern Med? The allies have a mixture of CW and French naval forces arrayed against the Italians. Could it be that I can't initiate combat because the CW and Italians aren't at war?



composer99 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (7/27/2014 4:39:34 PM)

The French should be able to initiate, unless they took a land impulse (or an air impulse but don't have naval air at sea).



rkr1958 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (7/27/2014 4:52:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

The French should be able to initiate, unless they took a land impulse (or an air impulse but don't have naval air at sea).
The French took a naval and the CW a combined.



paulderynck -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (7/27/2014 4:55:04 PM)

But the screen shot says the CW is deciding, which is probably why. Can you switch to France doing the deciding?



rkr1958 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (7/27/2014 5:03:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

But the screen shot says the CW is deciding, which is probably why. Can you switch to France doing the deciding?
That did it! Now, when I click initiate combat I get a naval battle.



rkr1958 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (7/27/2014 5:53:08 PM)

In my current version of history (i.e., my play of the Global War Scenario), there was no debacle in Norway to bring down the Chamberlain government. But, I think this would have done it. I lost the entire BEF and the island of Malta this impulse. At this point in the game could I be playing the CW any worse than how I'm playing them now!?

[image]local://upfiles/31901/D7742206D2E3451EA530C5184BD1F91E.jpg[/image]



paulderynck -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (7/27/2014 7:05:07 PM)

I would prefer to focus on your great Axis play!



composer99 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (7/27/2014 8:07:10 PM)

Losing the BEF, in part or in whole, is often part of the game. It's not necessarily bad play if the BEF is getting crushed, as long as the Germans had to work at it. Putting the BEF in harm's way is part of the job in the West in 1940.



Joseignacio -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (7/29/2014 6:55:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Can you upload a zipped saved game here? If so, we can investigate what is happening here...
I had saved the game at that point for just such a request. Before uploading it, I always reload the saved game to make sure it's the correct save and I still see the bug. It's the correct save, but now I can disembark the CW corps into France. Apparently the save and reload did the trick? Do you still want the saved game?



MAybe you were not disembarking the unit but rather moving the ship into Rouen? In this case you wouldn't have enough FTC... I am saying this because this passed before to other players, because it's not happening to you anymore, and because in your screen I cannot see but one transport at sea although you were moving two land units...



rkr1958 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (8/3/2014 5:18:18 PM)

Why are the 2 Italian and 2 CW units out of supply in Egypt?

Why are the 2 Italian units on the coast in Egypt in Supply?

[image]local://upfiles/31901/D0678E5F3DF3468D9A04691208262773.jpg[/image]



Centuur -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (8/3/2014 6:01:21 PM)

The Italian HQ and the INF are out of supply, since they are not in a coastal hex. They therefore need to trace to a port (or railline). In Desert (and desert mountain) to be in supply you only have a supply path of two hexes. Would Balbo have been positioned on a coastal hex, the INF would be in supply.

The other two Italian units can trace overseas supply through the port they are adjacent to (or in).

For the CW units, I haven't got enough information. My best guess is that Wavell can't trace a supply path to a CW country home city...



paulderynck -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (8/3/2014 6:04:42 PM)

Assuming the standard supply rules (not LOS):

The two Italian units on the coast can trace through the Eastern Med direct to a primary source in Italy. Units on the coast can always trace a basic supply path overseas, providing supply can be traced by sea. The two Italian units that are inland do not have a basic supply path that's long enough because desert hexes cost two each and the HQ can't trace a path to a port that's in range.

The two CW units can't trace though the Eastern Med because subs don't enable supply overseas, you need a surface naval unit or an air unit with air-to-sea factors, if in the presence of the same kind of enemy units. What is not shown in the screen shot is why they can't trace to the HQ, then to Cairo by RR, then out through Suez to the Red Sea and onward. What is the state of the Red Sea sea zone?



rkr1958 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (8/3/2014 6:18:58 PM)

@Centuur & @paulderynck -- Thanks!

"What is the state of the Red Sea sea zone?" -- @paulderynck

Only convoys are at sea for the CW in the Red Sea.

So if I understand both your posts:

The CW units are out of supply because I don't have CW surface combat ships (SCS?) in either the Eastern Med or Red Sea?

Well, in the Eastern Med I need CW SCS because the axis have combat ships at sea there?

What about the Red Sea? There are not axis SCS there?

The Italian corps and HQ are out of supply because they aren't on the coast and are too far (i.e., > 2 hexes in the desert) from a primary or secondary supply source?

[image]local://upfiles/31901/4819DD7BE29041BBB1C3DA1254A25C9F.jpg[/image]



rkr1958 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (8/3/2014 6:23:19 PM)

Hey -- I just noticed something in the second screen cap. The CW units are now in supply. That shot is from two impulses later than the first one. However; they both were taken on the same turn.

Why are the CW units in Egypt now in supply?

I did make two CW naval moves in 1 or 2 of the Pacific sea areas in an impulse in between. I don't remember the specific details; but could that have done it?

Just to be clear, changed in the Red Sea though.



paulderynck -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (8/3/2014 6:34:06 PM)

Two possibilities. One is that somewhere along the line you did something to enable a sea supply line. But with basic supply and (I suspect) the Japanese still neutral, then you don't need anything in a sea zone to trace supply as long as no enemy SCS/A2S are there. So it could be a save and reload fixed what should have been there already because there's likely no way the axis can interdict a supply path to India at this stage of the war.

If repeatable and fixed with save and reload and you are using the latest version, then it should be reported as a bug in the Tech Support threads, along with a saved game that demonstrates it (which, unfortunately, is impossible when the fix is save and reload).



rkr1958 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (8/3/2014 6:49:13 PM)

O.K. - I can repeat it; but it's resolved by a reload. In the screen cap below the 2 CW units in Egypt attacking the Italian 4-5 corps appear to be out of supply. An if I try to execute the attack the game won't carry out the attack.

Now, if you reload the saved game I have for this situation, the 2 CW units are in supply and can carry out the attack. However; this feature can be reproduced by clicking undo on the attack for both CW units and then selecting them both again to attack.

So this is a "reproducible" bug and I'll post in the tech section. By the way, I'm running the latest officially released version 1.2.0.7.

[image]local://upfiles/31901/A493EE614B974F27A96F1B8C9253170E.jpg[/image]



rkr1958 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (8/3/2014 8:57:10 PM)

I'm starting to gain an appreciation of how difficult it is to play the CW well. Especially, moving oil and resources to maximize production and oil saved. My question concerns the strategies used for "distributing spare" convoys across the globe. For example, I'm finding out the hard way that if I need more convoys in the Far East and my spares are in England, or even Gibraltar, then it's going to take me 2 to 3 turns to get those spares where they're needed. So here are my questions:

Can newly built CW convoys be placed (anywhere) they're needed (e.g., Far East)?

Do you (the experienced) players keep spare convoys?

If so, how do you distributed them?

What strategies (or tricks) do you use to get additional, or replacement, convoys to the sea areas where they're needed most?



paulderynck -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (8/3/2014 9:13:01 PM)

Can newly built CW convoys be placed (anywhere) they're needed (e.g., Far East)? One new CP per turn can be placed in one CW home country or CW-aligned-minor country port. All majors have this ability, FREX the Germans can build a CP and place it in a Romanian port, once Romania is aligned.) All other CW ones arriving must go to the UK (or - perish the thought - Britains current home country).

Do you (the experienced) players keep spare convoys? Yes, if possible

If so, how do you distributed them? Liverpool and then the Canadian East Coast have first priority in a about a 2:1 ratio of what's spare. If the Netherlands is in the war then you may have some spares to place in India (after setting them up in the NEI), but once Japan is on the hunt, it's best to skeedaddle.

What strategies (or tricks) do you use to get additional, or replacement, convoys to the sea areas where they're needed most? Not much other than keeping a reserve. If the Axis is doing a strong BoA, build Alexander ASAP and put him in Liverpool so he can re-org any aborted CPs from sub attacks.

Edit: Also, any turn your CP lines get busted up, RTB everything you don't need from all the sea zones. The next turn, try to wait as long as possible (although early turn-end could be ugly) before taking a Naval and sailing them out again. Any that RTB can get to any sea zone within 3 sea zones (barring the "in the presence of the enemy" optional and being OOS), so they constitute an effective reserve.



Courtenay -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (8/3/2014 10:20:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Can newly built CW convoys be placed (anywhere) they're needed (e.g., Far East)? One new CP per turn can be placed in one CW home country or CW-aligned-minor country port. All majors have this ability, FREX the Germans can build a CP and place it in a Romanian port, once Romania is aligned.) All other CW ones arriving must go to the UK (or - perish the thought - Britains current home country).

Do you (the experienced) players keep spare convoys? Yes, if possible

If so, how do you distributed them? Liverpool and then the Canadian East Coast have first priority in a about a 2:1 ratio of what's spare. If the Netherlands is in the war then you may have some spares to place in India (after setting them up in the NEI), but once Japan is on the hunt, it's best to skeedaddle.

I find that a few in Martinique are very useful -- from there they can get to all of the Atlantic convoy routes, and also more of the African west coast routes.

As I am playing with limited overseas supply, a few in the Mediterranean and in the Western Pacific are essential. For that matter, a few in the Indian Ocean are also essential. It is better to have a reserve than to get all convoy points back to the CW. For example (not playing with Food in Flames), at the start of the game I ignore the Australian and Malayan resources. There are enough CPs to get at least one of them back to Britain, but I prefer to have the 8 CPs it would take as a reserve.

quote:


What strategies (or tricks) do you use to get additional, or replacement, convoys to the sea areas where they're needed most? Not much other than keeping a reserve. If the Axis is doing a strong BoA, build Alexander ASAP and put him in Liverpool so he can re-org any aborted CPs from sub attacks.


Note that there is currently a bug that means that one does not want to reorganize convoy points, unless one really wants to cheat and get infinite convoy points.




rkr1958 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (8/3/2014 11:10:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CourtenayNote that there is currently a bug that means that one does not want to reorganize convoy points, unless one really wants to cheat and get infinite convoy points.
I've reorganized a handful of convoy points in my current game. Honestly, I hadn't noticed the bug. How man CP's do you get for every one you reorganize?



Courtenay -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (8/4/2014 2:21:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958


quote:

ORIGINAL: CourtenayNote that there is currently a bug that means that one does not want to reorganize convoy points, unless one really wants to cheat and get infinite convoy points.
I've reorganized a handful of convoy points in my current game. Honestly, I hadn't noticed the bug. How man CP's do you get for every one you reorganize?


I just tried to recreate the bug, and discovered that the bug no longer exists. This surprised me, because I never saw any indication that it had been fixed. (If you want to see what it was, search for the thread "Infinite convoy points.")



paulderynck -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (8/4/2014 5:40:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

I find that a few in Martinique are very useful -- from there they can get to all of the Atlantic convoy routes, and also more of the African west coast routes.


Except it usually goes Vichy.



Centuur -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (8/4/2014 5:21:59 PM)

Freetown is also a good port to put spare CP in at start or if you don't need them after they are build. From there you can almost reach all the Atlantic...



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