RE: Greyjoy(J) vs. Obvert(A) - Passions and Manure - DBB, SLs, PDU OFF

RE: Greyjoy(J) vs. Obvert(A) - Passions and Manure - DBB, SLs, PDU OFF (Full Version)

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PaxMondo -> RE: Greyjoy(J) vs. Obvert(A) - Passions and Manure - DBB, SLs, PDU OFF (4/4/2014 4:50:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreyJoy supplies are much more important! If you can't get to Francois, then I would re-read all of Alfred's posts on PDU-OFF upgrades. I don't think you will have any supply issues if you practice a modicum of moderation.

fcharton -> RE: Greyjoy(J) vs. Obvert(A) - Passions and Manure - DBB, SLs, PDU OFF (4/4/2014 7:44:56 PM)
Hi Greyjoy, As for R&D, I believe you need to take a look at the "upgrade" column of the Air Production tab in tracker, which tells you which models you can use as standards in PDU off. In my opinion, most of the research should focus on the Zero line, and then the Sams, for the IJN, and the Oscars and Franks for the IJA. The Nick is a good investment too, as you get them pretty early, and in larger numbers than the Tonies (the George is not that useful in PDU off, as you only get one squadron of the early model). Same for Tojos, even though the line ends at the IIc, and you don't get a lot of them. Apart from those, I'm not sure it is worth advancing so many models, especially those factories that won't convert to later models, or won't need to build many planes (because not many squadrons can upgrade). I believe it is more useful to keep many factories small, and convert and increase them a few months before a new model comes online. As you're close to the availability date, they repair fast, and you get full production as soon as the plane is available (and you get to keep your real research factories researching). Also, note that there are quite a few early game models that are not so great, but you need to produce in numbers, because those squadrons that use them won't upgrade, or only do so very late in the game (patrols, recon, transports). It is a good idea to build those stocks at game start, and then forget about those models, use the squadrons that can't upgrade as training outfits, and live off the stocks you've built. In general, it is a good idea of have a mix of very large factories that produce those big line you need all through the game (zeroes, oscars and the like), and a lot of smaller one that you use to build pools of one rare model, and then turn to another model, and so on. One important aspect of PDU off is that whereas you do have decent planes available, you don't get to choose the squadrons that use them. As a result, you often find yourself rotating former combat squadrons to training roles, once they can't have modern frames anymore, and move training outfits to the front line once they get modern frames. This means spending PP, obviously, but also planning your base HQ. As a rule, it is a good idea to have Kwantung bases in China, and even in Burma, and China Exp bases in indochina, and to assign the Kuriles and maybe also the Marianas to General Defense: this will allow you to use some of the restricted squadrons you can't buy. Finally, keep in mind that one of the benefits of PDU off is that it can save a LOT of supplies. If you rotate your squadrons and invest on a few fighter lines (which fortunately all use the same engines), you should have enough modern planes at the front for an attrition campaign. Francois

GreyJoy -> RE: Greyjoy(J) vs. Obvert(A) - Passions and Manure - DBB, SLs, PDU OFF (4/6/2014 8:11:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fcharton Hi Greyjoy, As for R&D, I believe you need to take a look at the "upgrade" column of the Air Production tab in tracker, which tells you which models you can use as standards in PDU off. In my opinion, most of the research should focus on the Zero line, and then the Sams, for the IJN, and the Oscars and Franks for the IJA. The Nick is a good investment too, as you get them pretty early, and in larger numbers than the Tonies (the George is not that useful in PDU off, as you only get one squadron of the early model). Same for Tojos, even though the line ends at the IIc, and you don't get a lot of them. Apart from those, I'm not sure it is worth advancing so many models, especially those factories that won't convert to later models, or won't need to build many planes (because not many squadrons can upgrade). I believe it is more useful to keep many factories small, and convert and increase them a few months before a new model comes online. As you're close to the availability date, they repair fast, and you get full production as soon as the plane is available (and you get to keep your real research factories researching). Also, note that there are quite a few early game models that are not so great, but you need to produce in numbers, because those squadrons that use them won't upgrade, or only do so very late in the game (patrols, recon, transports). It is a good idea to build those stocks at game start, and then forget about those models, use the squadrons that can't upgrade as training outfits, and live off the stocks you've built. In general, it is a good idea of have a mix of very large factories that produce those big line you need all through the game (zeroes, oscars and the like), and a lot of smaller one that you use to build pools of one rare model, and then turn to another model, and so on. One important aspect of PDU off is that whereas you do have decent planes available, you don't get to choose the squadrons that use them. As a result, you often find yourself rotating former combat squadrons to training roles, once they can't have modern frames anymore, and move training outfits to the front line once they get modern frames. This means spending PP, obviously, but also planning your base HQ. As a rule, it is a good idea to have Kwantung bases in China, and even in Burma, and China Exp bases in indochina, and to assign the Kuriles and maybe also the Marianas to General Defense: this will allow you to use some of the restricted squadrons you can't buy. Finally, keep in mind that one of the benefits of PDU off is that it can save a LOT of supplies. If you rotate your squadrons and invest on a few fighter lines (which fortunately all use the same engines), you should have enough modern planes at the front for an attrition campaign. Francois Thanks a lot Francois! Very useful informations! I think i agree with all your statements. I've read all your wonderfull AAR and all the considerations you've written about air production. I have made up my mind. Zero line and Oscar line will be my main RnD efforts. Only 2 factories will be devoted to J2M line and 3 to N1K line. Ki-84 and A7M will also be heavily researched. However i'll produce lots of planes and will try to remain balanced between availability and production needs. Will be fun!

GreyJoy -> Let's start! (4/6/2014 8:16:18 PM)
Ok guys, after several days of hard testing and planning, the first turn is sent to Obvert. The war is beginning. Japan will be much more aggressive than my usual habits. These are the final HRs: Strat bombing: manpower strikes allowed during daylight manpower strikes allowed during night with sliding scale: 25 planes/target in 41 50 planes/target in 42 100 planes/target in 43 200 planes/target in 44 400 planes/target in 45-46. CV strikes allowed for any strategic target at any time. Night bombing port/airfield: 50 planes/target for the entire war. Aerial mining: 50 planes/target only at night for the entire war. First turn: No restrictions on port strikes for IJ No new TFs for Allies but existing may move No air groups changing location, but can change CAP settings No crazy deep *TF moves (Mersing) Altitude of CAP/sweep: 15k in 41 20k in 42 25k in 43 32k in 44-46. PP for borders: Minus Thai and Burmese units Ground bombing: No 4E ground bombing Settings: DBB scen 30, PDU OFF, Realistic RnD OFF, Replacements OFF, expand OFF, 7th Dec Surprise ON, Historical Start OFF, Auto Subs OFF

witpqs -> RE: Let's start! (4/6/2014 8:32:02 PM)
GJ, Curious about the aerial mining - why restricted to nighttime?

GreyJoy -> RE: Let's start! (4/6/2014 8:54:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs GJ, Curious about the aerial mining - why restricted to nighttime? Basically because we both think aerial mining is overpowered.i've never used in my games. The fact that planes cannot be intercepted really screws things up... With this limitation (in numbers and at night) should make things interesting but at the same time not abusable... 2000 mines in a single massive strike that can't be intercepted is just silly and simply ruins the game imho

Lokasenna -> RE: Greyjoy(J) vs. Obvert(A) - Passions and Manure - DBB, SLs, PDU OFF (4/6/2014 10:22:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreyJoy quote: ORIGINAL: Spidery You need about 6 factories on the Ki-94-II to expect to have it available in December 1944. 4 factories would have it available mid January 1945 (or you could get lucky or unlucky - there is a lot of spread with long research times). If you plan to survive to May 1946 then that gives you 15 months to use it and you should have the supply, engines and HI to deploy it. Do you have any altitude HR? If you do, it may handicap the Ki-94-II as the max ceiling is its biggest strength. Yes, we will have limited altitude to 32K from 1944 on... Really seems too much of investment for a 1945/46 plane. I'm leaning towards the very same option I used with QBall... stopping any RnD after Ki-84 line...so to say get the N1K1, the J2M3, the KI-84a and then stop and let the rest arrive when the time has come... I like this.

witpqs -> RE: Let's start! (4/6/2014 11:37:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreyJoy quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs GJ, Curious about the aerial mining - why restricted to nighttime? Basically because we both think aerial mining is overpowered.i've never used in my games. The fact that planes cannot be intercepted really screws things up... With this limitation (in numbers and at night) should make things interesting but at the same time not abusable... 2000 mines in a single massive strike that can't be intercepted is just silly and simply ruins the game imho Just FYI, it was fixed at some point in the Betas and it has been confirmed that aerial mining can be intercepted. Which of course does not address concerns about size of missions.

GreyJoy -> RE: Let's start! (4/7/2014 5:31:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: GreyJoy quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs GJ, Curious about the aerial mining - why restricted to nighttime? Basically because we both think aerial mining is overpowered.i've never used in my games. The fact that planes cannot be intercepted really screws things up... With this limitation (in numbers and at night) should make things interesting but at the same time not abusable... 2000 mines in a single massive strike that can't be intercepted is just silly and simply ruins the game imho Just FYI, it was fixed at some point in the Betas and it has been confirmed that aerial mining can be intercepted. Which of course does not address concerns about size of missions. Oh really? That i didn't know! Will talk about it with Erik. We have plenty of time before the aerial mining becomes active anyway. Thanks mate!

GreyJoy -> RE: Let's start! (4/7/2014 5:37:53 AM)
Again about the air production... So i heavily stressed the Oscar line as i said. I wanna get to the Oscar IIb ASAP. The armour is a must to hope not to waste too many precious pilots. I'll also devote 2 factories to the Lily (KI-48) line in order to get the dive bomber version of the Lily at a decent time. With a good IJAAf training program, i'd like to have, by mid 1943, a good number of crack army DB groups, so to give some relief to the Navy LBA bombers (which are Always in the bulk of the fighting forge).

witpqs -> RE: Let's start! (4/7/2014 5:48:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreyJoy quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: GreyJoy quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs GJ, Curious about the aerial mining - why restricted to nighttime? Basically because we both think aerial mining is overpowered.i've never used in my games. The fact that planes cannot be intercepted really screws things up... With this limitation (in numbers and at night) should make things interesting but at the same time not abusable... 2000 mines in a single massive strike that can't be intercepted is just silly and simply ruins the game imho Just FYI, it was fixed at some point in the Betas and it has been confirmed that aerial mining can be intercepted. Which of course does not address concerns about size of missions. Oh really? That i didn't know! Will talk about it with Erik. We have plenty of time before the aerial mining becomes active anyway. Thanks mate! If anything, I assume that at night they are less likely to be intercepted, so he might send them at night anyway! [:D]

koniu -> RE: Let's start! (4/7/2014 7:29:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: GreyJoy quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: GreyJoy quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs GJ, Curious about the aerial mining - why restricted to nighttime? Basically because we both think aerial mining is overpowered.i've never used in my games. The fact that planes cannot be intercepted really screws things up... With this limitation (in numbers and at night) should make things interesting but at the same time not abusable... 2000 mines in a single massive strike that can't be intercepted is just silly and simply ruins the game imho Just FYI, it was fixed at some point in the Betas and it has been confirmed that aerial mining can be intercepted. Which of course does not address concerns about size of missions. Oh really? That i didn't know! Will talk about it with Erik. We have plenty of time before the aerial mining becomes active anyway. Thanks mate! If anything, I assume that at night they are less likely to be intercepted, so he might send them at night anyway! [:D] Tot really. Tested under one of last betas. 300+ B29 mining Tokyo with 1500+ CAP. Not single plane was intercepted. Combat animation just starts and ends. No fight at all.

GreyJoy -> RE: Let's start! (4/7/2014 8:05:03 AM)
So, what will Japan try to do strategically in this match? As always, everything will depend on how well the initial phase goes. The idea is to move faster than usual in the DEI. Last time, against Q_Ball, I got scared by the aggressive allied defence there and slowed down a lot my advances. This time, i'll try to be more stubborn and more self confident. Will try a very aggressive strategy, even at the risk of having some failed operations. Will make a very early aggressive strategy against Luzon, so to bottle up the allies at Clark-Manila-Bataan ASAP. Then the 16th Division will move out leaving the 48th ID and the 65th Inf Bde to lay the siege. Mindanao won't be completely conquered early on. My intentions is to create some strongholds early on in key areas, and move forward, leaving the task of clearing what is left behind to the small SNFL units. The 21st Division is already loading at Shangai and will be sent to Palembang immediately. I'm also thinking of an early push towards Timor and Darwin... would be cool to grab northern Oz by Feb 1942, so to leave enough time to go for Western Oz if conditions are fine. Western Oz can be a trap for the allies, even in 1943... In SOPAC i'll see what Obvert will do and will see if it will be wise to overextend there or not.

LoBaron -> RE: Let's start! (4/7/2014 8:45:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreyJoy Altitude of CAP/sweep: 15k in 41 20k in 42 25k in 43 32k in 44-46. Hi GJ! Are you aware that you are giving escorts an advantage if you leave this HR as is? E.g.: Send in strikes @20k in 41 and escorts got 7k alt advantage over CAP. Also, even if you limit strikes to those altitudes as well, be aware that escorts in a coordinated strike then still have a 2k alt advantage over CAP. This might be intentional, just mentioning in case you did not consider the above scenarios. Good luck, looking forward to reading your AAR!

GreyJoy -> RE: Let's start! (4/7/2014 9:38:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LoBaron quote: ORIGINAL: GreyJoy Altitude of CAP/sweep: 15k in 41 20k in 42 25k in 43 32k in 44-46. Hi GJ! Are you aware that you are giving escorts an advantage if you leave this HR as is? E.g.: Send in strikes @20k in 41 and escorts got 7k alt advantage over CAP. Also, even if you limit strikes to those altitudes as well, be aware that escorts in a coordinated strike then still have a 2k alt advantage over CAP. This might be intentional, just mentioning in case you did not consider the above scenarios. Good luck, looking forward to reading your AAR! Thx LoBaron, yes, I thought about it too when we set up that rule. But, generally speaking, I do like the idea to smooth down the CAP advantage over Escort and I'm also confident that neither me or Erik will "abuse" that HR. However, if the problem will arise, I'm pretty sure we'll find out a proper solution (maybe setting a limit also to the bomber strikes). For the moment, however, that rule, imho, will work just fine. I really like the idea to have specific max altitudes. Hate the race to the stratospheres we've seen in every game. Also, using the latest Symon's a/c modifications, the bounce advantage should get even more lowered. Everything is worth, imho, to re-balance the air-to-air combat system to a more dynamic way.

princep01 -> RE: Let's start! (4/7/2014 1:19:26 PM)
Greyjoy, I know you are Ironborn and thus very familiar with the sea and this game, but I must caution you about a mistake made by a recent opponent of mine who is also a game veteran. He sought to take out Palembang quickly, but failed to remember that Palembang is really on a river, not the sea coast. Hence he loaded his invading horde of LYBs on transports too large to go upriver. Be aware of this when loading those stalwarts of the 21st Div. It would be an embarrassment to all Ironborn to sail confidently up to Palembang only to be told by you captains that the river sandbars prevent further progress.....not to mention what I would do to your fingers. Ramsey Bolton

GreyJoy -> RE: Let's start! (4/7/2014 2:18:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: princep01 Greyjoy, I know you are Ironborn and thus very familiar with the sea and this game, but I must caution you about a mistake made by a recent opponent of mine who is also a game veteran. He sought to take out Palembang quickly, but failed to remember that Palembang is really on a river, not the sea coast. Hence he loaded his invading horde of LYBs on transports too large to go upriver. Be aware of this when loading those stalwarts of the 21st Div. It would be an embarrassment to all Ironborn to sail confidently up to Palembang only to be told by you captains that the river sandbars prevent further progress.....not to mention what I would do to your fingers. Ramsey Bolton My Master! Yesterday night there has been the Premiere of Season4 on HBO... gonna watch it tonight! Can't wait! On the opening titles now there's your home...DeadFort[8D] Anyway, I did know that BBs couldn't go up river, but, afaik, every other single ship (CAs included) can reach Rangoon and Palembang... am I missing something? Are there some transports which can't reach Palembang? Never knew that! [X(][X(][X(]

princep01 -> RE: Let's start! (4/7/2014 2:57:27 PM)
I have only my opponents evaluation (or whining, if you will) to substantiate it, but he said that his first attempt on Palembang had to turn back because some of the transports (yes, he said transports) were too large to go up river and land the troops. Yes, CAs can go up river, but they top out at 14,000 tons or so. If a transport is bigger, and some of the old cruise liner type transports may be, then I suspect going up river with those is a no go. My opponent MAY have embedded a BB in that initial invasion fleet and that may have been the true cause of the no-go, but you might want to at least ensure that none of your invasion transports exceed the tonnage of your CAs. Alas, I will not watch the 4th season in real time. I always wait and buy the DVD so I can watch it in continuous fashion and with no commercial interruption (maybe HBO doesn't have commercials). I just finished the third season last night. And, yes, wow!

GreyJoy -> RE: Let's start! (4/7/2014 3:03:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: princep01 I have only my opponents evaluation (or whining, if you will) to substantiate it, but he said that his first attempt on Palembang had to turn back because some of the transports (yes, he said transports) were too large to go up river and land the troops. Yes, CAs can go up river, but they top out at 14,000 tons or so. If a transport is bigger, and some of the old cruise liner type transports may be, then I suspect going up river with those is a no go. My opponent MAY have embedded a BB in that initial invasion fleet and that may have been the true cause of the no-go, but you might want to at least ensure that none of your invasion transports exceed the tonnage of your CAs. Alas, I will not watch the 4th season in real time. I always wait and buy the DVD so I can watch it in continuous fashion and with no commercial interruption (maybe HBO doesn't have commercials). I just finished the third season last night. And, yes, wow! Yes, be sure i'll check it out!!! Thanks a lot for the suggestion! The third season rocks... but the 4th should be awesome! Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane...[8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D] "You raped her. You murdered her. You killed her children. If you die before you say her name, ser, I will hunt you through all seven hells" TOP!!!!!!!!![8D][8D][8D][8D] [image]local://upfiles/37890/8EC0DE0B45704B72A84729EDD4B1FA6B.jpg[/image]

witpqs -> RE: Let's start! (4/7/2014 3:09:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: koniu quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: GreyJoy quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: GreyJoy quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs GJ, Curious about the aerial mining - why restricted to nighttime? Basically because we both think aerial mining is overpowered.i've never used in my games. The fact that planes cannot be intercepted really screws things up... With this limitation (in numbers and at night) should make things interesting but at the same time not abusable... 2000 mines in a single massive strike that can't be intercepted is just silly and simply ruins the game imho Just FYI, it was fixed at some point in the Betas and it has been confirmed that aerial mining can be intercepted. Which of course does not address concerns about size of missions. Oh really? That i didn't know! Will talk about it with Erik. We have plenty of time before the aerial mining becomes active anyway. Thanks mate! If anything, I assume that at night they are less likely to be intercepted, so he might send them at night anyway! [:D] Tot really. Tested under one of last betas. 300+ B29 mining Tokyo with 1500+ CAP. Not single plane was intercepted. Combat animation just starts and ends. No fight at all. People have posted a couple of intercepts from their combat reports. So it happens, but it's rare which I suppose it was IRL. But as I mentioned, either way that still does not address the size of raids which is what GJ said they see as a problem.

GreyJoy -> RE: Let's start! (4/7/2014 3:16:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs People have posted a couple of intercepts from their combat reports. So it happens, but it's rare which I suppose it was IRL. But as I mentioned, either way that still does not address the size of raids which is what GJ said they see as a problem. Yes, that is the problem me and Erik are trying to address. Too easy to deploy, all of a sudden, 2000 mines right in front of the enemy fleet, without risking anything more than a couple of planes shot down. That is way out of the line imho. At night and in small numbers makes much more sense cause the mining ops are supposed to be sneaky...not fleets of B29s or Betties flying at 100 feet right in front of the enemy's Death Star and getting out untouched

Lokasenna -> RE: Let's start! (4/7/2014 3:34:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreyJoy So, what will Japan try to do strategically in this match? As always, everything will depend on how well the initial phase goes. The idea is to move faster than usual in the DEI. Last time, against Q_Ball, I got scared by the aggressive allied defence there and slowed down a lot my advances. This time, i'll try to be more stubborn and more self confident. Will try a very aggressive strategy, even at the risk of having some failed operations. Will make a very early aggressive strategy against Luzon, so to bottle up the allies at Clark-Manila-Bataan ASAP. Then the 16th Division will move out leaving the 48th ID and the 65th Inf Bde to lay the siege. Mindanao won't be completely conquered early on. My intentions is to create some strongholds early on in key areas, and move forward, leaving the task of clearing what is left behind to the small SNFL units. The 21st Division is already loading at Shangai and will be sent to Palembang immediately. I'm also thinking of an early push towards Timor and Darwin... would be cool to grab northern Oz by Feb 1942, so to leave enough time to go for Western Oz if conditions are fine. Western Oz can be a trap for the allies, even in 1943... In SOPAC i'll see what Obvert will do and will see if it will be wise to overextend there or not. Interesting. Just a note that I think you'll need more than SNLF's to take Mindanao... Unless you're talking about taking it "later", where later means April or June. If you delay too long in taking key reinforcement bases (Davao, Cagayan), then the Allies get a couple more regiments that can combine into a complete division.

GreyJoy -> RE: Let's start! (4/7/2014 3:53:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: GreyJoy So, what will Japan try to do strategically in this match? As always, everything will depend on how well the initial phase goes. The idea is to move faster than usual in the DEI. Last time, against Q_Ball, I got scared by the aggressive allied defence there and slowed down a lot my advances. This time, i'll try to be more stubborn and more self confident. Will try a very aggressive strategy, even at the risk of having some failed operations. Will make a very early aggressive strategy against Luzon, so to bottle up the allies at Clark-Manila-Bataan ASAP. Then the 16th Division will move out leaving the 48th ID and the 65th Inf Bde to lay the siege. Mindanao won't be completely conquered early on. My intentions is to create some strongholds early on in key areas, and move forward, leaving the task of clearing what is left behind to the small SNFL units. The 21st Division is already loading at Shangai and will be sent to Palembang immediately. I'm also thinking of an early push towards Timor and Darwin... would be cool to grab northern Oz by Feb 1942, so to leave enough time to go for Western Oz if conditions are fine. Western Oz can be a trap for the allies, even in 1943... In SOPAC i'll see what Obvert will do and will see if it will be wise to overextend there or not. Interesting. Just a note that I think you'll need more than SNLF's to take Mindanao... Unless you're talking about taking it "later", where later means April or June. If you delay too long in taking key reinforcement bases (Davao, Cagayan), then the Allies get a couple more regiments that can combine into a complete division. As far as I know from my tests, Davao and Cayegan can both be taken by 5 Naval Guard Units, supported by BBs bombing the hell out of those bases. not less than 20 AKEs are already converting in Japan and soon they will be sent to Bab and other places to support the naval bombing operations. However, if I manage to keep those bases suppressed by air, I could easily take them back once the major conquests of Java-Sumatra are over sending a division for that task. Really want to try to speed things up, conquering only what is absolutely necessary and move forward asap. In fact I may also use the South Sea Detachmet regiment once it conquers Rabaul. Wanna use the 4th Division against PM and Horn Island and the 144th rgt needs to get to Burma in order to recombine with the 55th Div. On its way to Burma he could be used to backup the Naval Guard Units At Mindanao and in other places like that...we'll see, but that's the idea anyway.

Mike McCreery -> RE: Let's start! (4/7/2014 4:54:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreyJoy quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs People have posted a couple of intercepts from their combat reports. So it happens, but it's rare which I suppose it was IRL. But as I mentioned, either way that still does not address the size of raids which is what GJ said they see as a problem. Yes, that is the problem me and Erik are trying to address. Too easy to deploy, all of a sudden, 2000 mines right in front of the enemy fleet, without risking anything more than a couple of planes shot down. That is way out of the line imho. At night and in small numbers makes much more sense cause the mining ops are supposed to be sneaky...not fleets of B29s or Betties flying at 100 feet right in front of the enemy's Death Star and getting out untouched How long can you shut a port down though? Yes, theoretically you could drop hundreds of mines per turn but you run out of stock really quickly and any port with more than a few minesweepers can eliminate the threat quickly. You guys seem determined to prevent yourselves from doing things you do not plan on doing anyway... LOL!

princep01 -> RE: Let's start! (4/8/2014 1:24:20 PM)
Reek, please be so kind as to wake me should the war actually began. Bolton

GreyJoy -> The war has started (4/8/2014 3:01:52 PM)
The war has finally started. A mixed beginning. The plan was to land at Kotha Baru and Kuantan in Malaya, Singawang and Miri in Borneo, Legaspi, Lyngayen and San Fernando on Luzon, and positioning a strong SAG, along with an invasion TF at the very eastern edge of Borneo, so to jump towards Jolo by the 10th. PH was attacked by the KB minus the Kaga which is waiting for the CVL Ryujo to join her near Malaya. The PH raid went pretty well, sinking 1 BB with a magazine explosion and damaging severly at least 3 others. 15 Vals/Kates were lost to flak, but that is normal in DBB. What didn't went well was the intervention of the Force Z and some other british cruisers at my Sinkawang landings... Tanaka was leading the BBTF but the battles were fought at daytime and my main TF had expended most of his ammos against the two CLs that fought them in early morning...when the Force Z appeared at the orizont we were already short of torps and ammos... Anyway, the battle was a draw, with the Haruna severly damaged and 2 DDs in sinking conditions, while the allies probably suffered the same light damages... yet enough to move some of my best surface assets off the battle for a couple of months... The rest went pretty normal, with the other landings almost unopposed. I just realized I did a stupid mistake not having conquered with my paras any AF at Luzon...tomorrow I really risk of having several ships sunk by his bombers...oh well[8\|] AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 07, 41 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Midget Sub attack inside harbor of Pearl Harbor!!! Japanese Ships SSX Ha-18, hits 1 Allied Ships BB Tennessee, Torpedo hits 1[:D] PC Taney PC Taney loses contact with SSX Ha-18 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Time Surface Combat, near Kuantan at 53,78, Range 24,000 Yards Japanese Ships BB Kongo BB Haruna CA Takao CA Atago CL Jintsu DD Asashio DD Oshio DD Michishio DD Arashio DD Akatsuki DD Hibiki Allied Ships xAKL Dai Tung, Shell hits 9, and is sunk lots of ammo expended -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Time Surface Combat, near Singkawang at 55,87, Range 21,000 Yards Japanese Ships BB Kongo, Shell hits 1 BB Haruna, Shell hits 2 CA Takao, Shell hits 1 CA Atago, Shell hits 1 CL Jintsu, Shell hits 1 DD Asashio DD Oshio DD Michishio, Shell hits 1, on fire DD Arashio DD Akatsuki DD Hibiki Allied Ships CL Dragon, Shell hits 17, heavy fires, heavy damage CL Durban, Shell hits 32, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Time Surface Combat, near Singkawang at 56,88, Range 22,000 Yards Japanese Ships BB Kongo BB Haruna, Shell hits 7, on fire CA Takao, Shell hits 2, heavy fires CA Atago, Shell hits 1 CL Jintsu DD Asashio DD Oshio, Shell hits 2, heavy fires DD Michishio, Shell hits 1, heavy fires DD Arashio, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage DD Akatsuki, Shell hits 1 DD Hibiki, Shell hits 1, on fire Allied Ships BB Prince of Wales, Shell hits 18, on fire BC Repulse, Shell hits 7, heavy fires DD Vampire, Shell hits 3, heavy fires DD Tenedos, Shell hits 3, heavy fires DD Electra, Shell hits 3, on fire DD Express, Shell hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 22,000 yards CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 22,000 yards BB Prince of Wales engages BB Haruna at 22,000 yards Hopefully the Repulse is in a bad shape just like Haruna and Atago -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107 Weather in hex: Clear sky Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 44 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 54 B5N2 Kate x 117 D3A1 Val x 108 Allied aircraft P-36A Mohawk x 2 P-40B Warhawk x 6 Japanese aircraft losses B5N2 Kate: 9 damaged B5N2 Kate: 5 destroyed by flak D3A1 Val: 11 damaged D3A1 Val: 5 destroyed by flak Allied aircraft losses P-36A Mohawk: 2 damaged P-36A Mohawk: 1 destroyed on ground P-40B Warhawk: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged P-40B Warhawk: 2 destroyed on ground A-20A Havoc: 3 destroyed on ground B-18A Bolo: 3 destroyed on ground B-17D Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground O-47A: 1 destroyed on ground PBY-5 Catalina: 5 destroyed on ground F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed on ground Allied Ships BB Arizona, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 3, on fire BB Nevada, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires BB Maryland, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, on fire BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage DD Blue, Bomb hits 1, on fire BB California, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires DD Dewey, Bomb hits 1, on fire CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 1, on fire CL Raleigh, Torpedo hits 1 CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires DM Montgomery, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage CL Detroit, Bomb hits 1 Allied ground losses: 17 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Airbase hits 23 Airbase supply hits 2 Runway hits 62 Port hits 5 Port fuel hits 2 Port supply hits 1 Aircraft Attacking: 14 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000' Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb 27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb 5 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet 8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000' Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb 13 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet Port Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp 18 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet 10 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000' Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb 16 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet Port Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp 10 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000' Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb 27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb 1 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000' Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb 27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb 8 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet 4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000' Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb 17 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000' Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb 8 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet 8 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet 14 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000' Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb 11 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000' Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb 10 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000' Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb 4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000' Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb 4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000' Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Raids at Clark didn't go well, with 10 Japanese planes shot down for very few bombers torched on the ground -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on Clark Field , at 79,76 Weather in hex: Clear sky Raid spotted at 34 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 11 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 45 G4M1 Betty x 27 Allied aircraft P-35A x 5 P-40B Warhawk x 10 P-40E Warhawk x 9 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed G4M1 Betty: 3 destroyed, 5 damaged Allied aircraft losses P-35A: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged P-35A: 1 destroyed on ground P-40B Warhawk: 2 damaged B-17D Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground Airbase hits 6 Airbase supply hits 2 Runway hits 21 Aircraft Attacking: 22 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pre-Invasion action off Lingayen (79,75) - Coastal Guns Fire Back! 54 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships DD Inazuma PB Kyo Maru #13 PB Kyo Maru #12 SC Ch 18 SC Ch 17 SC Ch 16 SC Ch 15 SC Ch 14 SC Ch 13 SC Ch 12 SC Ch 11 SC Ch 10 SC Ch 6 SC Ch 5 SC Ch 4 xAP Kamo Maru DD Ikazuchi Japanese ground losses: 35 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Allied ground losses: 301 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 19 disabled Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 29 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Guns lost 16 (3 destroyed, 13 disabled) Vehicles lost 9 (2 destroyed, 7 disabled) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amphibious Assault at Lingayen (79,75) TF 8 troops unloading over beach at Lingayen, 79,75 Japanese ground losses: 210 casualties reported Squads: 11 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 16 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 5 (5 destroyed, 0 disabled) Vehicles lost 5 (5 destroyed, 0 disabled) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amphibious Assault at Kota Bharu (51,75) TF 85 troops unloading over beach at Kota Bharu, 51,75 Japanese ground losses: 161 casualties reported Squads: 9 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 10 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled) Vehicles lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amphibious Assault at San Fernando (80,74) TF 90 troops unloading over beach at San Fernando, 80,74 Japanese ground losses: 161 casualties reported Squads: 9 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amphibious Assault at Kuantan (51,79) TF 91 troops unloading over beach at Kuantan, 51,79 Japanese ground losses: 210 casualties reported Squads: 11 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 10 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 3 (3 destroyed, 0 disabled) Vehicles lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amphibious Assault at Miri (64,87) TF 98 troops unloading over beach at Miri, 64,87 Japanese ground losses: Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled) 37mm Type 94 AT Gun lost overboard during unload of II/124th Infantry Bn 15 Support troops lost in surf during unload of 97th JAAF AF Bn /16 [image]local://upfiles/37890/B8C5A619FBB14EB4B7410E6253B6F7D6.jpg[/image]

GreyJoy -> RE: The war has started (4/8/2014 3:08:35 PM)
Now it's time to seek battle against Boise and Houston!

witpqs -> RE: The war has started (4/8/2014 3:59:46 PM)
quote: BB Tennessee, Torpedo hits 1 [:D] I HATE those Pearl Harbor midget subs!! [:D] Wow, it looks like you took Force Z out of action on day 1. Repulse must need extended repairs and POW needs who knows what.

ny59giants -> RE: The war has started (4/8/2014 4:02:29 PM)
I must say...Long Live Big Bad Boise!!! [&o][:D][&o]

GreyJoy -> RE: The war has started (4/8/2014 4:45:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: BB Tennessee, Torpedo hits 1 [:D] I HATE those Pearl Harbor midget subs!! [:D] Wow, it looks like you took Force Z out of action on day 1. Repulse must need extended repairs and POW needs who knows what. Basically yes, as far as I can tell both POW and Repulse took enough damage to be out of the theatre for quite some time. For sure they need to get back to Singa or Sosarbaja in order to rearm...and Singa isn't exactly a safe place for those damaged ships... Now the Asiatic Fleet. If I'm not mistaken the Boise and the Houston are moving towards Jolo. I have a SCTF near Puerto Princesa and another one south of Davao...

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