RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (Full Version)

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BBfanboy -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 1:54:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy Re: the transport skippers who would not "Stay!" - I find it sometimes helps to set the port you want them to stay in as the home port. If they get the urge to run from SCTFs they usually run for home port, though not always if their skipper has poor aggression rating. I usually check the skipper of every xAP that has been assigned to carry troops and change the CO if needed (Naval 50+, Aggression 40 - 60). Most of the time no PP are required for the change. Unfortunately the CO pool for Commonwealth ships is very shallow and most skippers are poorly qualified. I had them set to karachi as home port, but didn't change commanders. The pools in general are really poor for the Allies in the beginning. This is one of the biggest surprises for my first run through a PBEM so far. I literally can't find enough good sub, destroyer and cruiser commanders, let alone improved transport TF guys. The Japanese start with a plethora of aggressive, highly skilled naval commanders and air group commanders. This is another reason they own the first year of the war. It's a huge difference to run out ships with skippers whose aggression tops at 49! ASW suffers for sure, as aggression is key to attacking subs. I can get either naval or aggression but not often both. Having been doing a lot of reading I see why this is in game though. The pre-war commanders were much less risk-taking and by-the-book. It wasn't until the 90-day wonders arrived and the younger naval academy grads moved up into commands that things started to change. One final comment on this - the pools for Naval and Commercial ships are different, so there are some changes that can easily be made in the xAP/xAK realm. You won't find high naval/high aggression skippers there either but then you don't want high aggression in most transport vessels. And improving naval skills from the dismal 15 some have to say, 35, is significant. It may just be enough to dodge a sub torpedo or a bomb. It will help with damage control.

EHansen -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 2:55:33 AM)
What I have found is that the British and US have loads of Captains that can be assigned to transports. But there are limited Commonwealth, Dutch, Australian, and New Zealand Captains available.

obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 5:56:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy Re: the transport skippers who would not "Stay!" - I find it sometimes helps to set the port you want them to stay in as the home port. If they get the urge to run from SCTFs they usually run for home port, though not always if their skipper has poor aggression rating. I usually check the skipper of every xAP that has been assigned to carry troops and change the CO if needed (Naval 50+, Aggression 40 - 60). Most of the time no PP are required for the change. Unfortunately the CO pool for Commonwealth ships is very shallow and most skippers are poorly qualified. I had them set to karachi as home port, but didn't change commanders. The pools in general are really poor for the Allies in the beginning. This is one of the biggest surprises for my first run through a PBEM so far. I literally can't find enough good sub, destroyer and cruiser commanders, let alone improved transport TF guys. The Japanese start with a plethora of aggressive, highly skilled naval commanders and air group commanders. This is another reason they own the first year of the war. It's a huge difference to run out ships with skippers whose aggression tops at 49! ASW suffers for sure, as aggression is key to attacking subs. I can get either naval or aggression but not often both. Having been doing a lot of reading I see why this is in game though. The pre-war commanders were much less risk-taking and by-the-book. It wasn't until the 90-day wonders arrived and the younger naval academy grads moved up into commands that things started to change. One final comment on this - the pools for Naval and Commercial ships are different, so there are some changes that can easily be made in the xAP/xAK realm. You won't find high naval/high aggression skippers there either but then you don't want high aggression in most transport vessels. And improving naval skills from the dismal 15 some have to say, 35, is significant. It may just be enough to dodge a sub torpedo or a bomb. It will help with damage control. Sure, it's definitely worth it. I tried for Japan in my last game to give the flag of any transport convoy with men or fuel/oil a commander with 50+ naval and 50+ aggression. The aggression is for going after subs with the escorts after a shot is taken. Three were a lot of 50/50 guys in the merchant captain pools. I'll have to check the Allies to see how it compares.

obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 11:42:25 AM)
I realize I haven't posted the narratives lately. I'm still writing, but now that some characters are established I need to get some information before continuing the stories. They'll be back in soon. I'm really enjoying being on the Allied side. It's scaring me how little there is to work with in the beginning against a strong aggressive player like GJ. I keep looking at the queues, willing stuff to arrive sooner. Early on playing this side takes creativity and guile plus a lot of patience. India is a big test, and the worst may not be over yet.

ny59giants -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 12:17:38 PM)
Allied morale booster - mid and end of month mega-reinforcements. It starts off slow in '42, but by mid-43 you get 8 Fletchers a month plus lots of other goodies. I've become a Fletcher Fan Boy!! [&o] Since you don't have interior lines of communications now, it takes a little more planning. USA to Cape Town to India is about two months.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 12:42:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ny59giants Allied morale booster - mid and end of month mega-reinforcements. It starts off slow in '42, but by mid-43 you get 8 Fletchers a month plus lots of other goodies. I've become a Fletcher Fan Boy!! [&o] Since you don't have interior lines of communications now, it takes a little more planning. USA to Cape Town to India is about two months. Gotta agree on the Fletchers. You get a couple in the late autumn 1942. A drink of cold water in the desert. Having played through two spring 1942s now I think I dislike April-May the most. It's been months of getting curb-stomped, retreats, huge troop losses through surrender. The amphib bonus is over, but the Japan player usually doesn't need it anymore either. He has search and ASW very far forward and constant, every-turn VP jumps from finishing port and AF levels and supplying same. Sometimes a couple of hundred VPs in a day just from getting supply to a huge Chinese city. Your fighter pools are shot, which is OK because the fighters are lousy. Your torpedoes don't work, your ASW doesn't work yet, your AA is firing .50 caliber MGs, your BBs move at 21 knots, you may have lost a carrier or three. And then . . . it starts to get better. There's a few weeks in fall where you don't feel in control, but you're not terrified to go someplace either. You get 1942 infantry, especially into the Aussie units, and they can fight a stand-up fight and have a shot. You get the June 1942 AA pool dump and those guns deploy. Your subs get radar and will fight a surface action if he chooses to non-escort. USMC regiments come together in some of the most fearsome divisions in the game. You buy out a couple of US Army divisions and get them on the water. You have the P-40K and the beginning of a P-38 force. You have options. But April and May? Dark days. In many ways worse than December and January were.

ny59giants -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 1:15:32 PM)
quote: But April and May? Dark days. In many ways worse than December and January were. The Japanese empire has reached its zenith here and you start to second guess some of your early war decisions. Shoulda, coulda, and woulda type thoughts. Then, I hope my CV fleet is intact as I have a small window (late June to August) to hit back if I can get both the American and British CV/CVLs together with extra Marine fighter groups on the Americans. Japan will need to rotate back the 6 CVs from KB to get their upgrades (radar) and the Allies can have over 600 carrier based planes. The big thing is what to do then?!?

obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 1:34:10 PM)
Thanks guys. yeah. There is nothing like a PBEM against a good player. It's grim, and I thank you for letting me know it just gets darker for a while yet. After Japan in 45 I can handle it, I just have the tension of avoiding AV to deal with as well. It's amazing getting worried about the port in Tahiti and building Winnipeg's airfield to enhance my VP score by a few points. [:D]

ny59giants -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 1:36:58 PM)
You will be better after you get Yorktown into Pearl drydocks. [;)]

obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 2:06:41 PM)
Feb 16 - 18, 1942 SUBS: The KB gets through the net. No hits, but a few shots on escorts. Nearing the Big Island, on a track toward Kona, Yorktown and company are tenaciously fending off a pack of at least 5 IJN subs now. One day the York had a pump failure and float damage shot from 66 to 76 (!!!) but in the three days since it's dropped again to 69, with 10 system. A scare, but hopefully the hole is plugged and the ship seems to be moving back to 2-3 hexes a day. INDIA: The Ceylon invasion is at least two divisions. The saved third of the Aussie brigade makes Karachi as does another, several base forces, an arty unit, and a few more RAF groups. The IJA is moving on Hyderabad. I've evacuated the troops and they're in Bombay. One more division at Bangalore to move over, and then the rookies can all hang out together behind the forts if the IJA comes calling. It'll be a decent group of units, but low experience again. CHINA: The flanking IJA division makes the wooded rough hex the same move as our Corps and tries a DA immediately, getting a 1:2 by a meagre 1 point differential! [&o] I've got another unit moving that'll be there in two days so we could be okay here. Two more units are moving to close the hex sides from the gray road beyond. I've moved back from Kukong to guard the road and these rear approaches. The maneuver with SL is much more fun than pounding away with 200k troops without. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR February 18, 42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Jamshedpur , at 51,34 Weather in hex: Clear sky Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 12 minutes Allied aircraft B-17D Fortress x 5 B-17E Fortress x 17 No Allied losses Manpower hits 75 Fires 24750 Aircraft Attacking: 6 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 6000 feet * City Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Jamshedpur , at 51,34 Weather in hex: Clear sky Raid spotted at 46 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 13 minutes Allied aircraft B-17D Fortress x 2 B-17E Fortress x 6 No Allied losses Manpower hits 31 Fires 37875 Aircraft Attacking: 6 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 6000 feet * City Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at 80,55 (near Hengyang) Japanese Deliberate attack Attacking force 14815 troops, 122 guns, 42 vehicles, Assault Value = 404 Defending force 5534 troops, 43 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 160 Japanese adjusted assault: 357 Allied adjusted defense: 358 Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 Combat modifiers Defender: terrain(+) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 313 casualties reported Squads: 3 destroyed, 26 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Allied ground losses: 385 casualties reported Squads: 2 destroyed, 38 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Assaulting units: 51st Division Defending units: 78th Chinese Corps -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [image]local://upfiles/37283/1403E3418E074E148C0CD8F771579692.jpg[/image] Nearing the goal. Still can't get decent hits on the subs here even with carefully selected commanders and TF leaders, lots of APDs with 6 DC, and night and day search by over 100 planes.

Lowpe -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 2:08:54 PM)
Oh no, this nail biting time is by far and away the most enjoyable....backs to the wall, never enough forces for the job, the uncertainty of Japan's offensive aims, this is just great![:D] And, my goodness, what a strike Obvert is planning! I can hardly wait to read about it.

crsutton -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 2:18:36 PM)
The "Yorktown Affair" is pretty exciting. Just goes to show the danger of using American carriers aggressively so early in the war. His subs are almost immune from ASW attack. I have been feeling it in my game as well. After 4/42 the American DDs get both DC upgrades and radar. That makes a world of difference. You would be killing on average a sub a day if that was the case.

HansBolter -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 2:36:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: ny59giants Allied morale booster - mid and end of month mega-reinforcements. It starts off slow in '42, but by mid-43 you get 8 Fletchers a month plus lots of other goodies. I've become a Fletcher Fan Boy!! [&o] Since you don't have interior lines of communications now, it takes a little more planning. USA to Cape Town to India is about two months. Gotta agree on the Fletchers. You get a couple in the late autumn 1942. A drink of cold water in the desert. Having played through two spring 1942s now I think I dislike April-May the most. It's been months of getting curb-stomped, retreats, huge troop losses through surrender. The amphib bonus is over, but the Japan player usually doesn't need it anymore either. He has search and ASW very far forward and constant, every-turn VP jumps from finishing port and AF levels and supplying same. Sometimes a couple of hundred VPs in a day just from getting supply to a huge Chinese city. Your fighter pools are shot, which is OK because the fighters are lousy. Your torpedoes don't work, your ASW doesn't work yet, your AA is firing .50 caliber MGs, your BBs move at 21 knots, you may have lost a carrier or three. And then . . . it starts to get better. There's a few weeks in fall where you don't feel in control, but you're not terrified to go someplace either. You get 1942 infantry, especially into the Aussie units, and they can fight a stand-up fight and have a shot. You get the June 1942 AA pool dump and those guns deploy. Your subs get radar and will fight a surface action if he chooses to non-escort. USMC regiments come together in some of the most fearsome divisions in the game. You buy out a couple of US Army divisions and get them on the water. You have the P-40K and the beginning of a P-38 force. You have options. But April and May? Dark days. In many ways worse than December and January were. I find June 1st, 1942 to be the most trying day of the war for the Allies. It seems like about a third of the Allied air force withdraws on this date or by mid June. June is the thinnest month there is for the Allied air force. April and May do seem to be slim on reinforcements, but at least each of those months has a highlight (April F4F4s) and May (TBFs). I find myself spending the last half of May scratching my head over how I'm going to replace squadrons in the front line that will be withdrawing June 1st.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 2:39:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert Thanks guys. yeah. There is nothing like a PBEM against a good player. It's grim, and I thank you for letting me know it just gets darker for a while yet. After Japan in 45 I can handle it, I just have the tension of avoiding AV to deal with as well. It's amazing getting worried about the port in Tahiti and building Winnipeg's airfield to enhance my VP score by a few points. [:D] Yeah, it's similar to late-Japan, but different too. As is often said, the Allies have better times to look forward to and Japan doesn't. But late-Japan has an end-date to hold out for too, even though it's not war-winning. But it might be game-winning. And to me the biggest difference is a Japan player never has to operate without a good air force. Even at the end over the HI there are planes enough. You're seeing what being air-poor feels like. I know what you mean about base VPs too. When I get Seabees I sometimes leave 3-4 battalions at Port Huneme for a week just to enjoy the build numbers shooting north. Then I deploy them. [:)] This India campaign is hard, but he is leaving reams of needed things undone. Maybe it's hard to see that from your chair right now, but it's true. He's going to regret it.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 2:43:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crsutton The "Yorktown Affair" is pretty exciting. Just goes to show the danger of using American carriers aggressively so early in the war. His subs are almost immune from ASW attack. I have been feeling it in my game as well. After 4/42 the American DDs get both DC upgrades and radar. That makes a world of difference. You would be killing on average a sub a day if that was the case. The K-gun rules.

rook749 -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 2:44:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter I find June 1st, 1942 to be the most trying day of the war for the Allies. It seems like about a third of the Allied air force withdraws on this date or by mid June. June is the thinnest month there is for the Allied air force. April and May do seem to be slim on reinforcements, but at least each of those months has a highlight (April F4F4s) and May (TBFs). I find myself spending the last half of May scratching my head over how I'm going to replace squadrons in the front line that will be withdrawing June 1st. And tips like this are why I read AARs. I just looked and yikes you are so right June is a bad month for the Allied Air Forces.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 2:45:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter I find myself spending the last half of May scratching my head over how I'm going to replace squadrons in the front line that will be withdrawing June 1st. I went ahead and paid the PP piper on a few. You need that bridge. Hurts on the infantry buy-outs, but ya gotta make choices.

Lokasenna -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 4:27:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert Thanks guys. yeah. There is nothing like a PBEM against a good player. It's grim, and I thank you for letting me know it just gets darker for a while yet. After Japan in 45 I can handle it, I just have the tension of avoiding AV to deal with as well. It's amazing getting worried about the port in Tahiti and building Winnipeg's airfield to enhance my VP score by a few points. [:D] Don't forget about Canberra, Anchorage, Socotra, and Diego Garcia. They are (probably?) the only bases that remain in your hands and have a multiplier higher than x2. Canberra is a whopping x30 for some reason, and he ain't never gonna take that one from you.

mind_messing -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 5:04:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: obvert Thanks guys. yeah. There is nothing like a PBEM against a good player. It's grim, and I thank you for letting me know it just gets darker for a while yet. After Japan in 45 I can handle it, I just have the tension of avoiding AV to deal with as well. It's amazing getting worried about the port in Tahiti and building Winnipeg's airfield to enhance my VP score by a few points. [:D] Don't forget about Canberra, Anchorage, Socotra, and Diego Garcia. They are (probably?) the only bases that remain in your hands and have a multiplier higher than x2. Canberra is a whopping x30 for some reason, and he ain't never gonna take that one from you. I was wondering why you were building Socotra and Diego Garcia...

Lokasenna -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 7:24:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: obvert Thanks guys. yeah. There is nothing like a PBEM against a good player. It's grim, and I thank you for letting me know it just gets darker for a while yet. After Japan in 45 I can handle it, I just have the tension of avoiding AV to deal with as well. It's amazing getting worried about the port in Tahiti and building Winnipeg's airfield to enhance my VP score by a few points. [:D] Don't forget about Canberra, Anchorage, Socotra, and Diego Garcia. They are (probably?) the only bases that remain in your hands and have a multiplier higher than x2. Canberra is a whopping x30 for some reason, and he ain't never gonna take that one from you. I was wondering why you were building Socotra and Diego Garcia... VPs doesn't have the be the only reason [:)]. Just look at what GJ is doing here.

Symon -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/16/2014 9:42:26 PM)
Howdy Obvert. I can't say much, because I watch both of ya'lls AARs. And righteous they are, too. The way you guys play is an inspiration. I enjoy it a lot. Dude .. get your head back into the basics. The fundamental truth of a great general is the ability to get the other guy reacting. You must stop reacting. Historically, both Nimitz and MacArthur saw how to cut Japan off, at the knees. Fortunately, the US was able to pursue both, but either one of their strategic perceptions had validity. Following both, in an alternating left-hook, right-hook fashion has much to recommend it. He's off doing India, so why not go off and do Rabaul, Truk, Carolines, Marainas, and threaten Japan or the PI and maybe get him to redeploy. There's a reason Guadalcanal was called Operation Shoestring. You might well lose your strike force, but then again, you might get a toehold. Anything to get the Japanese to slow down and take notice of your movements. Get them reacting to you for a change. But it must be a hit at a place where the Japanese will feel it. Not an interior Island raid, but an invasion at a strategically sensitive point. Napoleon often spent space for time, and that's ok. But you don't have much time (or space, or VPs) left. You gotta get gnarly. You gotta internalize the concept of Calculated Risk and take the initiative. [8D] Just MHO, Ciao. John

BBfanboy -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/17/2014 3:32:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: obvert Thanks guys. yeah. There is nothing like a PBEM against a good player. It's grim, and I thank you for letting me know it just gets darker for a while yet. After Japan in 45 I can handle it, I just have the tension of avoiding AV to deal with as well. It's amazing getting worried about the port in Tahiti and building Winnipeg's airfield to enhance my VP score by a few points. [:D] Don't forget about Canberra, Anchorage, Socotra, and Diego Garcia. They are (probably?) the only bases that remain in your hands and have a multiplier higher than x2. Canberra is a whopping x30 for some reason, and he ain't never gonna take that one from you. Canberra is the national capital of Australia. Peiping goes for 100X VPs, for the Allies. Not sure what Japan gets for occupying it.

JocMeister -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/17/2014 8:36:31 AM)
Regarding Wake and Marcus, You are going in too light for a speedy capture IMO. Anything bigger then a SNLF and a couple of forts and you risk getting stuck for weeks. The BBs are nice to have but will have to return to PH rearm. That means just one bombardment before he can have the KB in place. Once he does you will have to pull back leaving the troops. I would go in a lot heavier to make 100% sure you get the base in the first 2-4 days. At least have a second wave prepped and ready to land on D+1 if needed!

ny59giants -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/17/2014 1:13:39 PM)
I've been quiet on this proposed plan of action, but the hard part is going to be what you can do to reinforce the bases you capture a month after this happens?? KB and Company will be back to close down your SLOC and those troops will be left on their own. Multiple BB TFs will bombard the troops there and destroy any aircraft you place there. Yes, it will get GreyJoy's attention due to surprise, but is that all you want to do?? Is it to get supplies to Luzon?? For me, I would look to do something that I can build on for the rest of the war. I would go with a build up from Noumea, Luganville, Ndeni, and a landing in lower Solomons. An early "Operation Shoestring" at G'canal and Tulagi would put you in place for the rest of '42. Option "B" would be a landing in Gilberts as many of those bases can be built up (AF 5) to support B-17s. Just my $.02 [:)]

obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/17/2014 3:07:56 PM)
Thanks for all of the input and encouragement. While I will continue to put the plan into action it's also necessarily flexible. GJ may bring the KB to the Pacific and not come back for a further blockade of India. The main purpose of something in Central Pacific is to force the KB back while hitting whatever forces are found there. The CVs will not be ready for weeks, and a lot can change in that timeframe. He could also come North before the invasion bonus ends and so I must continue to solidify the position there. From Adak east I'll hope to hold current gains. The forward bases will be garrisoned lightly. This is the main goal of the early war and should have lasting positive results if I can hold and build the area. Even as a forward sub base it's worth the effort for my goals to hurt the Japanese economy. Southwest OZ could still be on the table as could the NE corner and the rest of the South Pacific. I'll be sending more air groups to OZ soon and getting some engineers and base forces there. If the KB comes back to the Pacific to defend before I've even struck I'd see that as a positive. No risk to achieve almost all of the goals of the op and lots of time to continue solidifying rear positions, getting air units trained up and in place, and I'll still have a chance to make a move where the KB is not.

obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/17/2014 3:12:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JocMeister Regarding Wake and Marcus, You are going in too light for a speedy capture IMO. Anything bigger then a SNLF and a couple of forts and you risk getting stuck for weeks. The BBs are nice to have but will have to return to PH rearm. That means just one bombardment before he can have the KB in place. Once he does you will have to pull back leaving the troops. I would go in a lot heavier to make 100% sure you get the base in the first 2-4 days. At least have a second wave prepped and ready to land on D+1 if needed! I hear you. I know how unpredictable atolls can be. There is a reason this is called Boomerang. I'll swing around and come back if too much is in place, but the forts will at least not be too high at this point. I planned for two BB bombardments hits and the cruisers as well. Then CV air and a BB in each of the invasion TFs. Not as much as I'd like but going this early there might not be as much there yet either. I do also have two regiments prepping for Wake plus the engineers. So one is reserve.

obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/17/2014 3:20:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ny59giants I've been quiet on this proposed plan of action, but the hard part is going to be what you can do to reinforce the bases you capture a month after this happens?? KB and Company will be back to close down your SLOC and those troops will be left on their own. Multiple BB TFs will bombard the troops there and destroy any aircraft you place there. Yes, it will get GreyJoy's attention due to surprise, but is that all you want to do?? Is it to get supplies to Luzon?? For me, I would look to do something that I can build on for the rest of the war. I would go with a build up from Noumea, Luganville, Ndeni, and a landing in lower Solomons. An early "Operation Shoestring" at G'canal and Tulagi would put you in place for the rest of '42. Option "B" would be a landing in Gilberts as many of those bases can be built up (AF 5) to support B-17s. Just my $.02 [:)] If he is going for a modified piece by piece smorgasbord AV, Noumea and Fiji could still be high on the list of potential targets. I'll not add lots of tasty troop points there as well while weakening an already weak SE OZ. I'd like to play a wait and see game in So Pac but might make a small grab at NDeni to see what the response would be. I'd encourage fighting this far South, but with the plan to take and hold both Fiji and Noumea before 1/43 if they should be taken. So I agree that a build toward something that can be held is the best goal. As mentioned above, Cent PAC is simply to get him reacting to me, as Symon talks about above. It may not work tactically, but it could still have a lasting strategic impact if it means troops get to India and time is spent fighting over bases there while I solidify and possibly even make a small gain elsewhere.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/17/2014 3:55:37 PM)
I haven't re-read Alfred's post, so this is week-old memory. But my core take-away from his argument was not that Wake or Marcus could be held or should be over-invested in. It was them being the doorway to a massive re-supply of the PI. Not so much to draw the KB back, although . . . OK. Pros and cons. It was that the PI, with adequate supply, is a bear to take, especially given the islands and especially after he fritters away the amphib bonus. The PI forces are large but untrained. They're too spread out. But they have great arty and engineer assets, perfect for the defense. The 4th Marines are a nasty LCU. And so forth. Going off to run amok in India leaves the PI until late 1942 at best if you play this as a supply move. And as long as you hold the PI you have a dagger aimed at his oil. Even if he re-takes Wake and Marcus after the supply arrives you did the job. But you need to get a LOT of supply through, and pick your bastions carefully. You won't have air power. But you can have forts-power.

obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/17/2014 5:56:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 I haven't re-read Alfred's post, so this is week-old memory. But my core take-away from his argument was not that Wake or Marcus could be held or should be over-invested in. It was them being the doorway to a massive re-supply of the PI. Not so much to draw the KB back, although . . . OK. Pros and cons. It was that the PI, with adequate supply, is a bear to take, especially given the islands and especially after he fritters away the amphib bonus. The PI forces are large but untrained. They're too spread out. But they have great arty and engineer assets, perfect for the defense. The 4th Marines are a nasty LCU. And so forth. Going off to run amok in India leaves the PI until late 1942 at best if you play this as a supply move. And as long as you hold the PI you have a dagger aimed at his oil. Even if he re-takes Wake and Marcus after the supply arrives you did the job. But you need to get a LOT of supply through, and pick your bastions carefully. You won't have air power. But you can have forts-power. The mission to supply the PI remains on the table, but ONLY if GJ completely ignores a move to Cent Pac. I won't plan for him to make a mistake, and it's not so difficult to station decent LBA at Babeldaob and Davao that would completely shut the door on PI re-supply. A few old DDs would do the trick too. It's really not a high chance of success to send 14 knot transports off for 35-40 hex journey with no air or surface cover. So. Supply will be there ready to go just in case GJ completely ignores the threat, but won't likely move forward. The PI is also under heavy daily air barrage now, and no more forts will be built there as long as it keeps up.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (5/17/2014 7:14:37 PM)
You can route to avoid Babel-de-bob and Davao air search. That's why Wake and Marcus. It's a big ocean. But if you're not going to resupply the PI there's no reason to do the other two. They aren't hold-able now and you'll lose good assets.

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