DC3 Barbarossa (Full Version)

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lancer -> DC3 Barbarossa (5/29/2014 12:10:33 AM)

Hi,

I'm Cameron, the Developer for the new DC title. Vic's role is that of Producer and he is providing oversight on the whole project.

I'll be posting a series of Blogs on the forthcoming game which are found on the VR Designs site but to make it easy I'll put links to the articles here as they appear.

At this stage it'll probably be a weekly post.

I'll be talking about the game in detail as time goes on but, in short, the DC engine has been extended and the next game in the series, while having much in common with the previous two, will have significant differences.

The upcoming posts will be focusing on these differences.

Cheers,

Cameron



lancer -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (5/29/2014 12:11:14 AM)

[Reserved]

Post 1: Introduction
Post 2: Why the heck won't my Panzer's Move?
Post 3: Let's Talk Tires
Post 4: Russia on Ten Barrels a Day
Post 5: How to make Logistics Fun
Post 6: Information Flow - A Torrent or a Trickle
Post 7: Trucking our way to an Early Retirement
Post 8: Head Up, Shoulders Back!
Post 9: Focus, Man, FOCUS!
Post 10: Down But Not Out
Post 11: The Proving Grounds
Post 12: The Dark Side of the Moon
Post 13: A Night on the Town with Ms. Logistics
Post 14: I Swore it Worked when I Last Looked at it!

New Series (easing back to once a fortnight)

Post 15: What is Command?
AI Post 1: The Soviets need to hold the line
Post 16: Box Art Revealed
Post 17: Where are the Vital Organs - we'll be operating tomorrow
AI Post 2: The Soviets hold the line!
AI Post 3: Missing some je-ne-sais-Guderian
Post 18: Who Is Going To Make My Cup Of Coffee In The Morning?
AI Post 4 : Ready for Balancing
Post 4: Zen and the Art of Knowing who to Salute
Barbarossa Manual Sneakpeek!
Post 5: It Would Help If I Wasn't Surrounded by Idiots
Post 6: My Boss is a Psychopath
The long evolution of the Decisive Campaigns series
Post 7: The Ends Justify the Means
Post 8: Ethics and Morals
Post 9: The Fiddly Bits
Post 10: The Low Down
Decisive Campaigns: Community Project now Available!
The Monthly Metrics: December 2015
The Barbarossa Original Soundtrack
We Are Watching You... Metrics Part 2
Lets Play Advanced Tactics Gold

Next Game

DC: Next Game Post 1: Taking in the Wider View
Next Game Post 2: Pushing Noodles Uphill



Michael T -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (5/29/2014 12:53:51 AM)

Hi Cameron

A few questions.

Is the game covering just Barbarossa or the entire 41 to 45 campaign?

What is the hex and time scale?

What is the unit scale?

Is DC3 essentially an upgraded DC2 or something significantly different?

In your blog you said the game needed to be something 'new' to sell. I disagree. I think it just needs to work properly. I spent a lot of time with WITE. But in the end I gave up, it just doesn't work. I think what the historcial gaming community would like is a East Front game that actually works. That is it does not need to be something 'new' just for the sake of being different.



TJD -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (5/29/2014 11:39:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

In your blog you said the game needed to be something 'new' to sell. I disagree. I think it just needs to work properly. I spent a lot of time with WITE. But in the end I gave up, it just doesn't work. I think what the historcial gaming community would like is a East Front game that actually works. That is it does not need to be something 'new' just for the sake of being different.


+1 to that. Let WitE stand as a cautionary tale. Please take a conservative approach in your design.



O.Schmidt -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (5/29/2014 4:02:13 PM)

Sorry, I do not understand what is meant by WitE? ( War in the East??)



wodin -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (5/29/2014 4:33:31 PM)

Wish someone would do an expansion that follows an Army through a series of linked scenarios. The linked scenarios where my favourite part of DC CB.
Any chance you could do something similar with this game?



lancer -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (5/29/2014 11:57:28 PM)

Hi,

Some quick answers.

1. Scale is 30 km / hex, Divisions.

2. Time Period is '41 and early '42 (the initial drive to the Gates of Moscow and the winter counter attack)

3. An effort has gone into keeping the game manageable (play over two or three evenings). Unit count is deliberately kept as low as possible.

4. The 'New' builds onto the existing game rather than tearing it apart and putting it all back together in a different manner. The next blog post will give an idea of what this entails.

Cheers,
Cameron



wodin -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (5/30/2014 12:10:38 AM)

So a bigger scale. Like the time period but bot keen on the scale. Still wish you luck mate:)



Michael T -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (5/30/2014 12:41:47 AM)

What period of time is each turn in length? Week? Month?

The game sounds very interesting. I would hope if it succeeds that a future installment would complete the period from 42 to 45.

I will be getting this game :)



Rasputitsa -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (6/5/2014 9:12:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T
What period of time is each turn in length? Week? Month?


Blog says game turns represent 4 days.



Michael T -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (6/5/2014 11:26:04 AM)

4 days, nice [:)]



trebcourie -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (6/6/2014 2:47:49 AM)

Good luck. I'll be excited to see a DC3. This one is very close to being a great game.



Rasputitsa -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (6/6/2014 7:59:08 AM)

The blog on this game says that the designer is looking for the 'sweet spot' in gaming the Eastern Front. The spot between being unrealistic and over-simplistic, or being mega complicated and bogged down in detail. I really hope that this can be done, as my shelves and HDD are filled with games that don't quite make it.

The key here is the role the game has for the player and how closely this equates to historical world command positions, whilst producing a game that doesn't take your whole life to play.

So far the information coming from the DC3 blog is encouraging.[:)]






Redmarkus5 -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (6/24/2014 12:12:13 PM)

As Michael T said, please focus your energies on making it work correctly. I'd much prefer a convincing 'Battle of Smolensk' that works well and which has an effective AI that (at a minimum) doesn't simply run away over a '41-45 Grand Campaign' that doesn't work!



trebcourie -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (8/16/2014 12:13:18 AM)

So I just read all of the blog posts about DCIII...

And I sure hope you can pull it off! It looks like you have some great ideas and concepts. I personally don't like the micromanagement. I love the staff/command system where commanders can issue a few commands and then have the staff bring in issues (and maybe recommendations). And if there is some level of micromanagement, I at least want it presented in an easy-to-issue manner.

I just don't want it to be a game where you rubber, oil, breakdown issues make it a choose-your-own adventure type game. I still want to focus on the operational handling of the armies.

Good luck and keep updating!


It looks like this might scratch an itch or two of mine.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3629205



lancer -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (8/24/2014 11:57:00 PM)

Hi BROJD,

The prime focus of the game is the 'Player as Operational Commander'. This is combined with a micro-management free approach.

While you have the option of delegating any decisions that arise you are still required to provide hands on operational management.

This is a large part of the game, one that differs from the traditional approach and one that I haven't covered yet in a blog post.

But I will.

Cheers,
Cameron



wodin -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (9/24/2014 1:34:39 AM)

Well this is looking superb. Finally a game doing something different that will add so much to immersion and decision process rather than just pushing counters.

One thing that seems to be becoming apparent is that it looks like it will have all the mechanics need to do a fantastic WW1 game.

Infact once out I'd be more than willing to give it shot a Vic.



Barthheart -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (9/24/2014 3:49:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Well this is looking superb. Finally a game doing something different that will add so much to immersion and decision process rather than just pushing counters.

One thing that seems to be becoming apparent is that it looks like it will have all the mechanics need to do a fantastic WW1 game.

Infact once out I'd be more than willing to give it shot a Vic.



Look here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3684595
[X(] [8D]



wodin -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (9/24/2014 7:05:03 PM)

Thanks for the heads up..though it's DC3 new features to do with commanders and a logistics that will suit WW1. I see the mod struggling with certain aspects like EAW has.



keithrose -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (12/22/2014 6:55:05 PM)

It would be a shame if a good game was spoilt by an assumption that "bigger is better". Gary Grigsby made a similar error in thinking a more complex game would by definition be "better" - its not, its just more (too?) complex -in a spreadsheet management type of way - I doubt anyone but accountants & people alone in a sealed room ever actually play WiTE for more than a few turns.

The great thing about DC1 & DC2 for me was the ability to manipulate sub division units to gain advantage - using armour, infantry, air & artillery in a combined op dependent on terrain/weather/opposition etc - the sub units allowed this subtlety. I fear a big east front division slugging match will be just as dull as all the other big east front division slugging match games (both PC & board) that exist out there.
Why not use the existing system to do North African scenarios or some other interesting theatre at the existing scale rather than just trying to create something that will be just another monster game - as unplayed as it is unplayable.



micheljq -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (12/22/2014 7:06:43 PM)

There are many AARs in WitE forum, it is played and playable. I own both Decisive campaigns games and also WitE.

I agree DC system is simple, intuitive, cards are fine. There is a learning curve at first but it's normal. I would like a whole russian campaign with the DC system.

Michel.



Vic -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (12/23/2014 6:03:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: keithrose

It would be a shame if a good game was spoilt by an assumption that "bigger is better". Gary Grigsby made a similar error in thinking a more complex game would by definition be "better" - its not, its just more (too?) complex -in a spreadsheet management type of way - I doubt anyone but accountants & people alone in a sealed room ever actually play WiTE for more than a few turns.

The great thing about DC1 & DC2 for me was the ability to manipulate sub division units to gain advantage - using armour, infantry, air & artillery in a combined op dependent on terrain/weather/opposition etc - the sub units allowed this subtlety. I fear a big east front division slugging match will be just as dull as all the other big east front division slugging match games (both PC & board) that exist out there.
Why not use the existing system to do North African scenarios or some other interesting theatre at the existing scale rather than just trying to create something that will be just another monster game - as unplayed as it is unplayable.


I can assure you maybe a bit here since I have just played a PBEM test match with Cameron. And the level of "monsterness size" of DC3 feels slightly below the level of DC2 to me.

The new focus on the "multi-part" armies works very well and gives, at least me, the same enjoyment as I used to have with handling the multi-part divisions. And it did not feel like a slugging match, but yes: it is a different scale and type of game than DC1/DC2. Some things are abstracted like the air war and artillery support. But I think its a nice and different experience that still allows you to make the different branches cooperate, just on a different level.

Since I am a rather small outfit and having to support lots of different games and create a completely new engine (shadow empire) as well one of my goals for DC3 is now to have a much simplified editor released by the time of DC3 to allow easier development by scenario designers or third-parties.

Best wishes,
Vic



keithrose -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (12/23/2014 7:43:13 PM)

Thanks for taking the time to reply Vic. I enjoyed (& am enjoying still) the first two games so much I'd hate to see them disappear - they are a breath of fresh air in what was becoming a very samey environment - good games that kept pretty close to the history whilst still being fun to play - a difficult balancing act.

Glad to hear about the scenario editor - I'm sure there'd be a lot of people keen to use the engine to develop their own scenarios & campaigns - would give a great deal of longevity to the game.

Do you foresee any time in the future returning to the DC1/DC2 scale to do any other theatres (current commitments permitting)?



Vic -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (12/24/2014 5:49:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: keithrose

Thanks for taking the time to reply Vic. I enjoyed (& am enjoying still) the first two games so much I'd hate to see them disappear - they are a breath of fresh air in what was becoming a very samey environment - good games that kept pretty close to the history whilst still being fun to play - a difficult balancing act.

Glad to hear about the scenario editor - I'm sure there'd be a lot of people keen to use the engine to develop their own scenarios & campaigns - would give a great deal of longevity to the game.

Do you foresee any time in the future returning to the DC1/DC2 scale to do any other theatres (current commitments permitting)?


NP. Always like to chat and listen to customers. :)
But I dont promise things lightly. I will make up the balance after I finish my current commitments: DC3 and Shadow Empire. I have to see how they will be liked before deciding on new projects.

No lack of ideas though. For example a late ww2 game '44 - '45 is still on my must-do-before-i-die-to-do list. But that would be a monster game in regimental scale. Afrika is also tempting and would be relatively light weight to play (in unit count), but will have to be done maybe at bat level to have the sense of manoeuvre.

best wishes,
Vic



scout1 -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (1/2/2015 7:24:50 PM)

Africa would be a fine choice ..... Limited unit count, freedom of mobility, logistics driven ........



gdrover -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (1/2/2015 8:05:55 PM)

Vic-
Really looking forward to this one. I really enjoy Barbarossa games, and like others here I would appreciate a game that finds the sweet spot between monster and too simple.
I have all of your other games and have played them often.
Two requests:
1) could you make the counters a bit chunkier (thicker), so that they have more dimension.
This would give them a little nicer of a look and feel.
2) check out the SSG operational games. They have a nifty UI for tactical battles: when the player clicks on the target unit, a screen pops up that shows all of the possible units that can attack, support, etc. as the player chooses them, the odds update. Very useful way to visualize and change the attacks.
Thanks!
Glenn



zakblood -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (2/9/2015 8:45:22 PM)

-edited by Vic-

sorry zakblood. but we don't want other players (not invited by Cameron) having false hope of being able to join the beta.



lancer -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (2/9/2015 9:33:38 PM)

Hi,

We've already got a full team for the first beta test but there will be another, final beta, later for anyone who may be interested.

Probably jumping the gun applying for that now although you could pm me an expression of interest at any point.

Cheers,
Cameron



WilliePete -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (6/13/2015 1:07:24 AM)

Vic, can you give us a hint of when we can expect DC3? I'm itching to play something new and Eastern Front focused. Thanks!



lancer -> RE: DC3 Barbarossa (6/15/2015 1:15:54 AM)

Hi WilliePete,

Later this year is looking good.

Cheers,
Cameron



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