RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (Full Version)

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Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/16/2014 3:07:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aZmoDen

Hey quick question Icemania, Im still not gettin ancient guardians, but my new theory is i have too many ai players for them to spawn.
Ive run 15x15 1400 ;37 empires, 15x15 1000 25 then 24 empires (current game), and im pondering that too many extra AI players might negate the ancient guardians spawning.
So the question is (i guess) how many ai players do you have in the latest game youve played, where the ancient guardians have spawned?

Also, in the weapons research screen, Super Area Weapons is separated from the rest of the research tree, with no links.
Is this supposed to be such:

PROJECT ;274, Super Area Weapons, 9, 10, 0, 23, 3, 0.0,
COMPONENTS ;24

This has it on teh same level as the top level of gravatic weapons (gravatic resonance, advanced gravatic resonance, superiour gravatic resonance).
imageproof


I'm not sure why you are not seeing the Ancient Guardians. You may be right. My last few games had about 20 empires and I recall seeing the Ancient Guardians in every game. This is probably a good one for others to help you with as I can't see how it's related to the AI Improvement Mod.

With Super Area Weapons, this is as per Extended Mod. At the moment Super Area Weapons cause more trouble than they are worth for the AI. However, I'm hoping Lurchi works some magic here with different Super Weapons in each Weapons Type now that Super Weapon modding has been made available in the latest patch.



Hikikomori -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/16/2014 3:48:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

[...]

For other races, since they focus on other weapons types the Carrier designs are unused and redundant.




Thank you for clearing that up, and also for the awesome work you did.

As i play everything manual my games take forever to play and i was worried i did something wrong and i would find a crippled ai running around with melee-carriers...[:D]

If the AI focusses now i might be in trouble though...



PsyKoSnake -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/17/2014 9:31:16 PM)

Game : Extreme Extended AI Improved. Many/Strong all setting, restless agression.

Usualy I was taking my time on extreme, building The medical center + trade wonder+ shipyard + research wonders, then maxing popolation and starting to build a fleet and taking planets... Did not need to trade tech for cash.
Did not work so well, I will continu the game but I dont think I will win it.

1. I was able to build 2 wonders, because all the other were built before. ;)
2. When I chck my closest AI to declare war... Usualy with size 500 ship I was doing Ok because they had some capital ship of size 600 and the rest was crap. Now the Motaren have super carrier fleet 6-7 per fleet size 950+
3. Started to trade tech for cash... at first I wanted to do it for 1/10... switched for 1/5 because it was not helping at all.

Thanks for this mod but I will not play it anymore, it's too hard.


:P Nah! just joking, I would not play without it!!!!



Tanaka -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/18/2014 8:50:51 AM)

Bug report: Looks like you may have missed changing a few races designs for extended version I am playing as the Keskudon and you cannot build any military ships at start nor do you start with any because they are too big (over 230 size)...

Also not corrected:

Zenox
Lemuresh
Mechanoid
Shakturi




Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/18/2014 10:31:14 AM)

Thanks Tanaka, I appreciate this feedback.

The Mechanoids and Shakturi are not designed to be pre-warp or normal start empires. The templates have both been deliberately upgraded to reflect their advanced technology e.g. Escorts start at Size 650.

When I tested the Lemeresh, military ships were buildable from both a pre-warp and normal start. Could you clarify your observation here please?

I tested the Keskudon and Zenox, military ships were buildable from a pre-warp start. From a normal start, however, you are right they are not buildable immediately (although note that the AI will immediately research Size 300) so I will change the Escort design for those races to Size 230 in 1.02 (to align with the other races). My bad. I'll add bombardment weapons in the Keskudon ship designs as well ... [:D]

I'll have another look through the other races, more observations welcome.



Jethro420 -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/18/2014 9:27:13 PM)

Could you please specify the ideal settings for this mod in the OP?

Thanks!



Tanaka -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/18/2014 9:29:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

Thanks Tanaka, I appreciate this feedback.

The Mechanoids and Shakturi are not designed to be pre-warp or normal start empires. The templates have both been deliberately upgraded to reflect their advanced technology e.g. Escorts start at Size 650.

When I tested the Lemeresh, military ships were buildable from both a pre-warp and normal start. Could you clarify your observation here please?

I tested the Keskudon and Zenox, military ships were buildable from a pre-warp start. From a normal start, however, you are right they are not buildable immediately (although note that the AI will immediately research Size 300) so I will change the Escort design for those races to Size 230 in 1.02 (to align with the other races). My bad. I'll add bombardment weapons in the Keskudon ship designs as well ... [:D]

I'll have another look through the other races, more observations welcome.



Thanks I checked again and I guess I was mistaken about the Lemeresh. Sounds good!

Also since you can only start out being able to build escort size 230 do you have to research more tech to be able to build frigates and destroyers now? As I see those are size 300 and 400 respectively. I kind of like this as it makes each size actually more useful and varied now at least. I used to just skip building escorts and frigates completely but now you would actually have to build and use them!

Any ETA for 1.02? Ive been trying to figure out how to fix it myself but don't see how? I tried to change this value in design templates but did not work:

'Escort ship type (approx Size 300)



Erik Rutins -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/18/2014 10:07:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania
• Allow the AI to use troops on fleets to destroy Pirate structures.


Can you clarify for us what exactly this means?



PsyKoSnake -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/18/2014 11:41:29 PM)

My 50 ship getting destroyed vs the Moltaren Carrier Fleet. Damn I will need to change my strategy.
How to post an image on the forum.

[image]local://upfiles/40935/26DA0473A6C44E27ABCA846F7FB6279C.jpg[/image]



Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/19/2014 10:08:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania
• Allow the AI to use troops on fleets to destroy Pirate structures.


Can you clarify for us what exactly this means?


When Pirates build structures the Empire AI only seems to use the troops on that planet to attack Pirate facilities. On small worlds the AI rarely has enough strength and so Pirate facilities flourish. The idea was to allow friendly fleets to land troops and attack those Pirate facilities, just as human players do, so the AI is at less of a disadvantage. The probability that fleets are used to attack Pirate structures should maybe increase for more advanced Pirate structures.

Hope this helps.



Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/19/2014 10:14:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jethro420

Could you please specify the ideal settings for this mod in the OP?

Thanks!

With the description of the Mod on the theme page you will find the following:

The Mod will work on all difficulties but will provide more of a challenge on higher difficulties i.e. at least hard.

Anything beyond that is primarily a matter of personal preference. That said, if the intent of your question is to ask what is required to give the AI the best chance (which would apply to any Mod or Vanilla) I would suggest keeping the Pirate settings low in particular. The AI can struggle sometimes with Space Monsters, particularly Giant Kaltors at the start of the game.

Does that help? Sounds of the earlier restrictions during development (e.g. research settings) have long since been resolved.



Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/19/2014 10:23:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Thanks I checked again and I guess I was mistaken about the Lemeresh. Sounds good!

Also since you can only start out being able to build escort size 230 do you have to research more tech to be able to build frigates and destroyers now? As I see those are size 300 and 400 respectively. I kind of like this as it makes each size actually more useful and varied now at least. I used to just skip building escorts and frigates completely but now you would actually have to build and use them!

Any ETA for 1.02? Ive been trying to figure out how to fix it myself but don't see how? I tried to change this value in design templates but did not work:

'Escort ship type (approx Size 300)


I haven't set an ETA for 1.02, just waiting for enough fixes to build up to merit another release, this is the only change so far.

The primary error was with the Escorts for those two races. In the meantime, as a temporary fix, just copy "escort.txt" from the Ackdarians to the Keskudon and the Zenox. Changing the header has no effect, I put the size as part of a comment field, the size is determined by the component numbers and available technology.

I'll have another look through the design templates to see if I can find anything else as well.




Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/19/2014 10:28:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PsyKoSnake
My 50 ship getting destroyed vs the Moltaren Carrier Fleet. Damn I will need to change my strategy.
How to post an image on the forum.

You sir have made my day! The more screenshots like this, the better!

Try editing the post and select the "embed picture in post" box.




Tanaka -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/19/2014 6:41:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Thanks I checked again and I guess I was mistaken about the Lemeresh. Sounds good!

Also since you can only start out being able to build escort size 230 do you have to research more tech to be able to build frigates and destroyers now? As I see those are size 300 and 400 respectively. I kind of like this as it makes each size actually more useful and varied now at least. I used to just skip building escorts and frigates completely but now you would actually have to build and use them!

Any ETA for 1.02? Ive been trying to figure out how to fix it myself but don't see how? I tried to change this value in design templates but did not work:

'Escort ship type (approx Size 300)


I haven't set an ETA for 1.02, just waiting for enough fixes to build up to merit another release, this is the only change so far.

The primary error was with the Escorts for those two races. In the meantime, as a temporary fix, just copy "escort.txt" from the Ackdarians to the Keskudon and the Zenox. Changing the header has no effect, I put the size as part of a comment field, the size is determined by the component numbers and available technology.

I'll have another look through the design templates to see if I can find anything else as well.




Thanks for the temporary fix!

Also since you can only start out being able to build escort size 230 do you have to research more tech to be able to build frigates and destroyers now? As I see those are size 300 and 400 respectively and you do not start out with that size? This seems to be a change from the original game?

Edit: I see now that you do have to research further. I love it! It finally makes the escort class useful for a while! Why not take it even further and require a construction research branch for each ship class? It will make each ship class mean something and be useful for a time period. Escort - Frigate - Destroyer - Cruiser - Capitol. You would have to make some really strategic decisions regarding weapon quality vs size! Would slow the game down and you could no longer overwhelm the AI with bigger ships!

Edit: I now see you have done this as well! Brilliant! [&o]

Another thing Ive noticed about the designs is that every base has a medical and rec center. Considering that only a planet with a colony needs one each from the spaceport and besides defense bases most other bases are built over gas clouds and anomalies would not the other bases benefit better by having extractors instead? Maybe just space ports and defense bases should have these? Just a thought! Also the medium space port seems to be missing 2 high tech labs if it is supposed to have 10 of each lab? And the bases only have torpedoes as weapons and no beams? Just nitpicking observations now [:)]

Just starting a new game but as I get deeper into it I will post some screenies! Really enjoying the mod! Kudos!



fruitgnome -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/20/2014 12:54:28 AM)

Is this mod useable in existing saved games?



Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/20/2014 12:07:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
I now see you have done this as well! Brilliant! [&o]

[:)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Another thing Ive noticed about the designs is that every base has a medical and rec center. Considering that only a planet with a colony needs one each from the spaceport and besides defense bases most other bases are built over gas clouds and anomalies would not the other bases benefit better by having extractors instead? Maybe just space ports and defense bases should have these? Just a thought!

This is unchanged from Vanilla. There are Medical and Recreation Centres on Research Stations and Resort Bases (but none on Mining Stations or Monitoring Stations). The maintenance cost of course is very low but I see your point. Let me see if I can find the motivation to update 248 design templates for 1.02!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Also the medium space port seems to be missing 2 high tech labs if it is supposed to have 10 of each lab? And the bases only have torpedoes as weapons and no beams? Just nitpicking observations now [:)]

The number of labs varies a little between races. Energy research is important to everyone (but there is variation in the Research Orders). But aggressive races have a few more Weapons labs while passives races have a few more High Technology labs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Just starting a new game but as I get deeper into it I will post some screenies! Really enjoying the mod! Kudos!

Me need screenshots! Preferably those involving the AI winning or surprising you with having decent fleets!



Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/20/2014 12:08:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fruitgnome
Is this mod useable in existing saved games?

The game encodes a lot from the files that have been changed when you start the game, so you'll need to start a new one.



Evan85 -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/20/2014 2:52:25 PM)

Love your mod so far. I missed fleets appearing and rapidly eradicating my progress. Testing takes a lot of time, so I'll leave detailed feedback for a while. Two minor observations in the meantime:

In my starting prewarp game, hard AI was kinda' completely eradicated by normal/normal pirates. In 20 years, 1 out of 8 empires was able to establish their first colony. Not that the challenge is gone, those lawless guys are though enough to fight.. I'll just win too soon. Does increasing difficulty helps, or should I tone down the pirates?


Also... were sympathies of extended factions done by Hare? I just found it strange that Zenox very much liked my Lipid umm... people. Not that I can't imgaine a reason behind that, but it feels odd. Maybe I should take that discussion to his thread anyways..

Anyways, nice job - I wanna suffer more! [:)]



Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/20/2014 3:19:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evan85
In my starting prewarp game, hard AI was kinda' completely eradicated by normal/normal pirates. In 20 years, 1 out of 8 empires was able to establish their first colony. Not that the challenge is gone, those lawless guys are though enough to fight.. I'll just win too soon. Does increasing difficulty helps, or should I tone down the pirates?

Yes I recommend increasing the difficulty and/or toning done the Pirates. The AI does not handle Pirates very well. All I've done with the Pirates is beef up the ship designs a little.

That said, I really enjoy playing with Pirates so I still play Extreme difficulty with Strong Pirates anyway. The AI's have got plenty of colonies up but the Pirates cause their share of trouble, it is the Age of Shadows after all ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evan85
Also... were sympathies of extended factions done by Hare? I just found it strange that Zenox very much liked my Lipid umm... people. Not that I can't imgaine a reason behind that, but it feels odd. Maybe I should take that discussion to his thread anyways..

I'm glad it feels odd, the idea was to mess with players expectations, with some unexpected Alliances!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evan85
Anyways, nice job - I wanna suffer more! [:)]

I hope you do too! [:D]



Blackstork -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/20/2014 3:25:40 PM)

I actually like your idea with alliances, and i took in further in Beyond , swapped some races in alliances which fit more together lore-wise, and added all lore-based modifiers (like Human vs XHuman, etc.... ), and adding more spice into it with different values for A > B and B > A depedning on its lore.
Great idea so far, its modified and extended version will be part of upcoming release of Beyond. I going to call them Light, Dark, Blue and Red alliances in order to make it easier naviagation and race alliance allegiance iwll be part of its pedia eventually. All this spice game alot with my Dhayut fleets hyperspacing thru whole galaxy to help Gizzies, Naxxilians, Ketarovs to fight Kiadians, Securans, and other good guys :) GJ so far... Also please tell which files you going to change on 1.02 so i might do some preparations etc.
GJ



Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/20/2014 3:30:12 PM)

One more tip on the races biases ... you can easily change those alliances around if you don't like them with the Extended version of the Mod.

In the Excel spreadsheet "Extended AI Improvement Mod.xls" in the Extended AI Improvement Mod directory, go to the "Summary" sheet.

The Alliances in Column B uses 1, 2, 3 or 4. You can change them around to suit but make sure you stick with 4 groups with an equal number of empires in each group.

Now go to the sheet "raceBiases". Copy and paste that text into "raceBiases.txt" in the AI Improvement Mod directory.

Then start a new game and hopefully it will work.



Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/20/2014 3:32:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackstork
I actually like your idea with alliances, and i took in further in Beyond , swapped some races in alliances which fit more together lore-wise, and added all lore-based modifiers (like Human vs XHuman, etc.... ), and adding more spice into it with different values for A > B and B > A depedning on its lore.
Great idea so far, its modified and extended version will be part of upcoming release of Beyond. I going to call them Light, Dark, Blue and Red alliances in order to make it easier naviagation and race alliance allegiance iwll be part of its pedia eventually. All this spice game alot with my Dhayut fleets hyperspacing thru whole galaxy to help Gizzies, Naxxilians, Ketarovs to fight Kiadians, Securans, and other good guys :) GJ so far... Also please tell which files you going to change on 1.02 so i might do some preparations etc.
GJ

Cool

Even cooler would be a semi-random alliance generator for every new game!

With 1.02 I'll again include a changelog with the Mod. At the moment it is:

1. Escort Ship Designs for Keskudon and Zenox changed to Size 230 to align with other races and to ensure buildable early game.
2. Keskudon Ship Designs include Bombardment Weapons to align their Research Order.




Tanaka -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/20/2014 7:33:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evan85
In my starting prewarp game, hard AI was kinda' completely eradicated by normal/normal pirates. In 20 years, 1 out of 8 empires was able to establish their first colony. Not that the challenge is gone, those lawless guys are though enough to fight.. I'll just win too soon. Does increasing difficulty helps, or should I tone down the pirates?

Yes I recommend increasing the difficulty and/or toning done the Pirates. The AI does not handle Pirates very well. All I've done with the Pirates is beef up the ship designs a little.

That said, I really enjoy playing with Pirates so I still play Extreme difficulty with Strong Pirates anyway. The AI's have got plenty of colonies up but the Pirates cause their share of trouble, it is the Age of Shadows after all ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evan85
Also... were sympathies of extended factions done by Hare? I just found it strange that Zenox very much liked my Lipid umm... people. Not that I can't imgaine a reason behind that, but it feels odd. Maybe I should take that discussion to his thread anyways..

I'm glad it feels odd, the idea was to mess with players expectations, with some unexpected Alliances!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evan85
Anyways, nice job - I wanna suffer more! [:)]

I hope you do too! [:D]


Yes the pirates are definitely better! In one on one escort battles I am losing which I never used to! I would post screenies but again its early game and no one wants to see one on one ship battles haha. I play with harsh homeworld and slow tech so that every ship and battle counts. I also love playing with pirates so with this mod I recommend playing with very many pirates but lessening the strength to very weak or weak. I play with this setting and right now I am getting creamed by pirates. One faction has 30 military ships and I have one! Makes me think twice about offering smuggling missions because they have been fattening up off of 60,000 credits Ive paid them so far and Ive realized Im the reason they are so strong! For a real challenge play with a harsh homeworld and very expensive tech! And I play all my games on normal difficulty.

Edit: Im actually finding that its now much more difficult to play with a harsh homeworld and weak pirates with this mod ha. Im going to go up to normal homeworld and down to very weak pirates on normal difficulty! Excellent stuff!



Hikikomori -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/20/2014 7:46:59 PM)

One of my first games i was fiddling around with my nice little empire, thinking no evil(mostly).

Suddenly a single pirate escort and a single cruiser appeared, advanced tech(all prewarp settings), in warp before i could make a dent, i was getting alarms every 20 seconds, i lost my nice little and utterly useless 10 ship-fleet, my space station was having a bad hairday...

I HATE PIRATES! [:@]

I am not switching them from very weak, very few. I am scared enough already. Normal/Normal my a**. [:D]



Tanaka -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/20/2014 8:20:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Another thing Ive noticed about the designs is that every base has a medical and rec center. Considering that only a planet with a colony needs one each from the spaceport and besides defense bases most other bases are built over gas clouds and anomalies would not the other bases benefit better by having extractors instead? Maybe just space ports and defense bases should have these? Just a thought!

This is unchanged from Vanilla. There are Medical and Recreation Centres on Research Stations and Resort Bases (but none on Mining Stations or Monitoring Stations). The maintenance cost of course is very low but I see your point. Let me see if I can find the motivation to update 248 design templates for 1.02!


Haha good point I actually thought you had redone all the designs! Did you do just the ships?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Also the medium space port seems to be missing 2 high tech labs if it is supposed to have 10 of each lab? And the bases only have torpedoes as weapons and no beams? Just nitpicking observations now [:)]

quote:


The number of labs varies a little between races. Energy research is important to everyone (but there is variation in the Research Orders). But aggressive races have a few more Weapons labs while passives races have a few more High Technology labs.


Gotcha thanks!



Tanaka -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/20/2014 8:26:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hikikomori

One of my first games i was fiddling around with my nice little empire, thinking no evil(mostly).

Suddenly a single pirate escort and a single cruiser appeared, advanced tech(all prewarp settings), in warp before i could make a dent, i was getting alarms every 20 seconds, i lost my nice little and utterly useless 10 ship-fleet, my space station was having a bad hairday...

I HATE PIRATES! [:@]

I am not switching them from very weak, very few. I am scared enough already. Normal/Normal my a**. [:D]


Yeah it really sucks when pirates find a high tech derelict ship. I wish it were possible to mod all derelicts out of the game! Its game breaking when you find it or they do!



Jethro420 -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/20/2014 11:25:18 PM)

Here's a thought... wouldn't it help if you could let the AI have these awesome starting systems and let the human select another option? Methinks that's a very simple one to implement. Might wanna put it on yer wishlist, amigo. ;)



Tanaka -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/20/2014 11:28:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jethro420

Here's a thought... wouldn't it help if you could let the AI have these awesome starting systems and let the human select another option? Methinks that's a very simple one to implement. Might wanna put it on yer wishlist, amigo. ;)


Well what I love about this mod is it is about improving the AI without any cheats. So I can play on normal difficulty because I prefer a non cheating AI. But you can always give yourself harsh homeworld and the AI's super homeworlds in the game options.



Tanaka -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/21/2014 12:29:51 AM)

Hmm maybe a bug in the mod I increased my homeworld from harsh to normal and I started out with 30 explorers! All settings on starting...

[image]local://upfiles/8937/4B15296514C543BA9DBB7A7AF215C078.jpg[/image]



Tanaka -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/21/2014 8:06:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

One more tip on the races biases ... you can easily change those alliances around if you don't like them with the Extended version of the Mod.

In the Excel spreadsheet "Extended AI Improvement Mod.xls" in the Extended AI Improvement Mod directory, go to the "Summary" sheet.

The Alliances in Column B uses 1, 2, 3 or 4. You can change them around to suit but make sure you stick with 4 groups with an equal number of empires in each group.

Now go to the sheet "raceBiases". Copy and paste that text into "raceBiases.txt" in the AI Improvement Mod directory.

Then start a new game and hopefully it will work.



What you have done with race biases has made the whole universe come alive diplomatically! More kudos! [&o]



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