RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (Full Version)

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larryfulkerson -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (10/28/2014 10:29:09 PM)

This is the Mogolev area now. I'm pretty sure I can contain John's foothold across the river for about two turns but then I'm going to ]
have to displace to other positions if that's even possible because of the advances John is making in other areas of the front. Either
that or make a strongpoint that will take a turn or two to take down. I haven't decided yet. So I'm letting the situation evolve some here.
There's lots of places along the river where John can jump the river again so me containing THIS foothold isn't going to help all that
much in the long run.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/D08A1DE2902342B8AC2645552CE449CE.gif[/image]



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (10/29/2014 1:29:45 AM)

Have just Larry's turn back and started on my moves. The Leningrad front will now become my main AO and I am racing my Inf divisions north. One of my recon units is in the outer suburbs.

[image]local://upfiles/22318/055F7130499C46B28D6AA477D640C75B.gif[/image]



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (10/29/2014 1:32:46 AM)

Down at Kiev I have been able to cross the river in two places and am in the process of getting behind the Kiev MLR.

[image]local://upfiles/22318/BEB17B4F3FD8467D8A371E61137FE83B.gif[/image]



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (10/29/2014 12:56:51 PM)

xx



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (10/29/2014 12:58:55 PM)

above picture at the end of the turn

[image]local://upfiles/22318/15B1FE98796842CE83837DC0AF0CCAE5.gif[/image]



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (10/29/2014 1:05:48 PM)

Army group centre attacking in the northern and southern end of Larry's MLR. If I can move my Inf up fast enough there could be a large pocket. A lot depends if Larry tries to hold out or if he breaks and runs.

[image]local://upfiles/22318/EE9D564098354097AB6E392BC9095A20.gif[/image]



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (10/29/2014 1:12:23 PM)

The Murmansk front. At present I am hit my head against a brick wall in my attacks on Murmansk.I have captured the port 168/28 and cut the supply line to the Russian forces to the west. In a couple of turns I will be able to destroy them and this will release the 2 divisions in front of them. I will then move them up the line to attack Murmansk.

[image]local://upfiles/22318/5FFA9C6A37EF4D9F861A177D4588AADB.gif[/image]



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (10/29/2014 1:15:02 PM)

At the gates of Leningrad

[image]local://upfiles/22318/0BC829B07D6B43C9B156BA71EC91CA8A.gif[/image]



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (10/30/2014 3:09:22 AM)

Another pocket being formed. 8+ Divisions contained. To the north 2 divisions in a second small pocket.

[image]local://upfiles/22318/B6A41B17673B41C694E073B310E5C4ED.gif[/image]



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (10/30/2014 3:14:00 AM)

In the middle Larry has been able to contain my 2 break ins to his 1st MLR but I have made another river crossing at the bottom of the picture

[image]local://upfiles/22318/ADD51B173CF346E786FCF3F0F23320BC.gif[/image]



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (10/30/2014 3:18:20 AM)

Down on the Kiev front Larry has been able to contain my first 2 crossings (arrows) but I have made 2 further crossings. The southern one appears to have nothing but blue sky in front of it

[image]local://upfiles/22318/F503493C80384B348AF0C1968B9C4D9B.gif[/image]



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (10/30/2014 3:24:41 AM)

On the very southern front another pocket with 8+ divisions in 3 small pockets. Larry has tried to but a defensive line in front but I am getting round it. If possible I will try and pin these 10 divisions against the Dinper river

[image]local://upfiles/22318/F1BB1015B2F84AAA92D1F1995DBB9BD1.gif[/image]



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (11/3/2014 2:56:17 AM)

Turn 16. In the south I have been able to turn Larry's front and now have units racing into his rear area.

[image]local://upfiles/22318/4A36716538F54CCE8C8D0E43D7EE6BCB.gif[/image]



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (11/3/2014 2:58:29 AM)

Kiev has fallen and again I have recon and cav units racing into Larry's rear area.

[image]local://upfiles/22318/EC7E4D560CFB48F5A6FE7C6A02EDAD94.gif[/image]



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (11/3/2014 3:01:20 AM)

In the centre Larry has been able to contain all my bridgeheads and I have taken some heavy losses. My only hope is to turn and out flank from the south.

[image]local://upfiles/22318/D86E28802F5044A58EF2231BF6ABFAE6.gif[/image]



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (11/3/2014 3:05:41 AM)

On the Leningrad front I am in the outer suburbs. I may not have the strength to force my way in until I can release Inf units from other parts of the front.

[image]local://upfiles/22318/1D7417901AC84B1E8940B3326573C423.gif[/image]



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (11/4/2014 3:52:38 AM)

Turn 17. In the centre Larry has been able to hold all my attempts to break into his MLR. To the east one can see Larry building another line before his final defence of Moscow. To the south I have been able to surround his defence of Kiev. This has resulted in a pocket of 19+ divisions. It will take several turns to destroy them. Turns that I can not afford. I am racing my recon units to the east but I have to be careful that they are not ambushed.

[image]local://upfiles/22318/8BFAB47BAD7B459084A3B08813D70E81.gif[/image]



MAurelius -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (11/4/2014 11:14:59 AM)

one thing I simply do not understand in all of this: why is your opponent continously forming defensive lines where it is quite obvious that he can be outflanked and then most likely encircled?? - and then he forms a new front line MILES behind his first one - leaving the first out to die a slow and agonizing death...

just trying to understand his ideas behind this ;)



larryfulkerson -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (11/4/2014 5:51:48 PM)

Early in the war the Soviets are outnumbered and outgunned and there simply was no way to form a proper front line and
most of the actions in the early war were about roadblocks and strongpoints that were both defeated eventually. The same
thing is occuring in our game. The Germans were halted IRL in the battle of Moscow and I'm not sure my boys are up to
that challenge. John is doing magnificant and I'm glad to play him.



MAurelius -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (11/4/2014 6:14:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Early in the war the Soviets are outnumbered and outgunned and there simply was no way to form a proper front line and
most of the actions in the early war were about roadblocks and strongpoints that were both defeated eventually. The same
thing is occuring in our game. The Germans were halted IRL in the battle of Moscow and I'm not sure my boys are up to
that challenge. John is doing magnificant and I'm glad to play him.



no doubt about the historical situation there - but knowing all this - couldn't you have avoided some of it?
there is no real need for you to defend terrain - there is no Stalin back in Moscow telling you to halt... the only thing you need to defend is some of your industrial centers...

again - this is no criticism at all - or no "negative" one at least... just wondering why I see many people - not just you :) - defend Russia this far forward...

whereas when you fall back - the German player will advance further than his supply can take him - then he needs to rest - give you time to strengthen your lines even further....
worked for me twice at least - did stop the game early however.. cause the Dnepr was as far as the Germans got....


PS: also isn't there a HR that the game suggests: the Finns are not allowed to go past the defenses of Leningrad in the north? - I see they have attacked beyond that - was that discussed? - just asking, since it's something the game specifically suggests...



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (11/4/2014 8:04:56 PM)

We are playing under Ron's rule. The old rule 6 & 7 are deleted.

6) The Finns may not move south of the original border north of Leningrad (line marked on map), or south of the Svir River at the Karelian ness (marked), east of the line by Karhumäki (marked) and across the old border by Salla (marked), untill turn 40. Further more, given the special circumstance of the historic involvement of the Finns, they are not allowed embark on ships or attack into ANY Leningrad or Murmansk hexes. If Leningrad falls the restrictions on the Finns are lifted – DELETE. (Note: this is a very important change as it allows the Finns to pose a threat to Leningrad and Murmansk – which was not possible with the original house rule. When combined with the deletion of Rule 7 (below) a lot of strategic possibilities are opened up for the Axis player)

7) The Axis player may only send one German division or three air formations to Finland. This is in addition to German divisions that start or enters as reinforcement in Finland and Norway. Only two GERMAN divisions may be in or attack out from the southern part of Finland at any time. (Area below the non-playable, black area) All restriction on the German forces are lifted on turn 136 or if Sweden joins the war – DELETE.




MAurelius -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (11/4/2014 9:18:47 PM)

ahh ok - sry - I probably overlooked that in the intro... thanks a lot....



Lobster -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (11/5/2014 1:10:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MAurelius

quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Early in the war the Soviets are outnumbered and outgunned and there simply was no way to form a proper front line and
most of the actions in the early war were about roadblocks and strongpoints that were both defeated eventually. The same
thing is occuring in our game. The Germans were halted IRL in the battle of Moscow and I'm not sure my boys are up to
that challenge. John is doing magnificant and I'm glad to play him.




whereas when you fall back - the German player will advance further than his supply can take him - then he needs to rest - give you time to strengthen your lines even further....
worked for me twice at least - did stop the game early however.. cause the Dnepr was as far as the Germans got....


PS: also isn't there a HR that the game suggests: the Finns are not allowed to go past the defenses of Leningrad in the north? - I see they have attacked beyond that - was that discussed? - just asking, since it's something the game specifically suggests...


This was only one thing of many that were wrong with FitE. The Soviet could pull back causing trench warfare in 1941. I've also seen Soviet players invade and defeat Finland in 1941. Made for a short and not very fun game.

Also, historically the Finns refused to move beyond a certain point for political reasons. They were probably more aware of the likely outcome of an invasion of the Soviet Union than their German allies and I think were hedging their bet so as not to piss the bear off too much. The Finns entering Leningrad was about as likely as Turkey entering the war on the side of the Axis. Not going to happen.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (11/5/2014 3:10:18 AM)

Hey you guys, I just sent my T17 moves to John Fogger. I'm not sure if he's still up down there so to speak.
He may have already gone to bed. Anyway we should have some exciting new pictures for you tomorrow.
Or soon. My losses are horrendous and STILL John advances. The replacements I got in earlier turns
still aren't arriving at the front in time. John is moving so fast they are swallowed up in the carnage. It's
looking like it's curtains for the Soviet Union. But I want to give John a descent game. How do you spell
descent. I want to give him a good game. I'm open to suggestions at this point.



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (11/5/2014 12:05:31 PM)

The start of turn 18. This is an overview of the southern front. Odessa and Kiev have fallen. I am trying to release my Panzer divisions from the two Kiev pockets so that they race to the east. As can be seen my recon units are out front and there appears to be little between them and Voronezh. (the last red dot on the right.

[image]local://upfiles/22318/50F1203E571A4A4980BDA20B7F1312D6.gif[/image]



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (11/5/2014 12:12:01 PM)

I am in trouble in the centre. Larry has been able to contain my 3 bridgeheads and push one back. As can be seen even if I can get through this MLR I am facing another 2 MLR's before I hit Moscow. The only way is to go round them but I do not have the forces or time.

[image]local://upfiles/22318/D22FCE35DE224C41A315B1B935598A5B.gif[/image]



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (11/5/2014 12:20:20 PM)

The northern front. Leningrad has fallen and another 10+ divisions are trapped. Losses have been heavy so I am going to have to use arty to destroy the forces in the pocket. I am pushing up against Murmansk but do not have the strength to take by force. I may have to screen this area until I can release units from other parts of the front. I think I will make the Vorkhov & Svir rivers my winter line and settle into trench warfare in this area.

[image]local://upfiles/22318/1D3424DD17CB4E72BF0F60445FE8AF80.gif[/image]



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (11/5/2014 12:22:50 PM)

My Inf losses to the start of turn 18

[image]local://upfiles/22318/082A6023198B411887D5F3B3D8915F20.gif[/image]



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (11/5/2014 12:24:59 PM)

My tank losses.

[image]local://upfiles/22318/A53285D997B14358A0B1D613CB523207.gif[/image]



fogger -> RE: Field Marshal Fogger vs Marshal Fulkerson (again) (11/5/2014 12:27:15 PM)

Air losses

[image]local://upfiles/22318/31C4D84E13F64EE489680ED5C97A5D62.gif[/image]



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