What SAG do you use to take on MTB's? (Full Version)

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walkerd -> What SAG do you use to take on MTB's? (11/5/2014 11:04:40 PM)

Hi

Like it says on the lid. What do you use? DD's, CA's or even BB's.

Fighters on 100ft sweep really take too long. Especially at those slightly harder to get to bases on the edge.

Thanks



msieving1 -> RE: What SAG do you use to take on MTB's? (11/5/2014 11:26:11 PM)

DDs and CLs will generally eat MTBs for breakfast.



Lokasenna -> RE: What SAG do you use to take on MTB's? (11/5/2014 11:33:56 PM)

Fletchers.

1 or 2 good ones should do it.



btd64 -> RE: What SAG do you use to take on MTB's? (11/6/2014 3:30:41 AM)

TWO +1's....GP



witpqs -> RE: What SAG do you use to take on MTB's? (11/6/2014 4:43:41 AM)

DDs. It's their purpose!



walkerd -> RE: What SAG do you use to take on MTB's? (11/6/2014 6:09:22 AM)

Thanks for the responses.

My situation is one of my next targets had MTB's and my SAG has BB's and TB's. I was going to send in a DD force but unsure if I should include CA's in it. I know it depends on what they are going to meet, just did not want to risk a CA



m10bob -> RE: What SAG do you use to take on MTB's? (11/6/2014 2:46:49 PM)

The original name of Destroyers was "Torpedo boat destroyers"..This was from WW1 IIRC..It was their original mission, to form a defensive block for the big boys.



crsutton -> RE: What SAG do you use to take on MTB's? (11/6/2014 3:01:11 PM)

Moonlight is key-little boats are very dangerous when the moonlight is low. High moonlight and they can pretty much be ignored. But anything with decent guns and a little speed can usually take them on. I don't purposely send CAs after PTs but if the TF is going in for another mission, I don't fret about it. Old BBs in low moonlight are a no-no in any surface action. They are just a gift if you are sending them into PT or DD infested waters.



jmalter -> RE: What SAG do you use to take on MTB's? (11/7/2014 9:30:14 AM)

You shouldn't depend on just one thing to defend against any particular threat, instead use a combination of forces to counter multiple threats.

- Search planes on NavS to find & increase detection of enemy TFs
- F & FB on Naval Attack at 100'
- SurfTFs of 4 identical radar-equipped DDs
- & high moonlight w/ good weather.



offenseman -> RE: What SAG do you use to take on MTB's? (11/7/2014 1:23:32 PM)

A few small, very maneuverable DDs.



HansBolter -> RE: What SAG do you use to take on MTB's? (11/7/2014 1:47:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

The original name of Destroyers was "Torpedo boat destroyers"..This was from WW1 IIRC..It was their original mission, to form a defensive block for the big boys.


Yes, but the Torpedo Boats they were created to hunt are not the MOTOR or PATROL torpedo boats of WWII.

The Torpedo Boats of WWI were more akin to light destroyers, about the size of a DE, with the speed of a DD.

A few of this class can still be found in WWII. I built a model of a German one that was only slightly smaller than the German DD in the same Heller multi-kit box.



Amoral -> RE: What SAG do you use to take on MTB's? (11/7/2014 3:33:25 PM)

The Japanese DM class minesweepers have little to fear from the dutch PT boats. I send them in to mined hexes and they will regularly sink 4 or 5 times there number of PT boats before continuing on to sweep the hex.



robinsa -> RE: What SAG do you use to take on MTB's? (11/7/2014 5:57:54 PM)

Why 4 and why identical radar ?



wdolson -> RE: What SAG do you use to take on MTB's? (11/7/2014 11:15:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Yes, but the Torpedo Boats they were created to hunt are not the MOTOR or PATROL torpedo boats of WWII.

The Torpedo Boats of WWI were more akin to light destroyers, about the size of a DE, with the speed of a DD.

A few of this class can still be found in WWII. I built a model of a German one that was only slightly smaller than the German DD in the same Heller multi-kit box.


The Japanese still had some some ocean going torpedo boats in WW II. The Otori was one of them. I think they were mostly used as escorts during the war.

During WW I the mission of the torpedo boat destroyer and torpedo boat merged into the multi-role ship we know of. The dedicated torpedo craft operating with the blue water surface ships was an obsolete concept that was pretty much out dated by WW I.

It is ironic that PT boats did operate with larger ships at Surigao Strait though performing as a more or less independent screen to disrupt the Japanese and collect intel about the force approaching.

Bill



robinsa -> RE: What SAG do you use to take on MTB's? (11/10/2014 3:04:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: robinsa

Why 4 and why identical radar ?

Let me ask this question in more general terms,
Do ships with the same equipment operate better together than ships with differing equipment (such as radars)?

Surely 3 old and 1 new must be better than 4 old ?



LargeSlowTarget -> RE: What SAG do you use to take on MTB's? (11/10/2014 8:46:47 AM)

Not "identical radar" but "identical ships with radar". [:)]

I think it is not the same equipment that counts but the same speed and maneuver characteristics of ships of the same class which can prove benefitial in surface combats. Mixing ships with different speed and maneuver ratings may cause issues, like faster ships being tied-down by slower ships and thus losing an advantage.

This is what I use to hunt PTs/MTBs:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Madjene at 65,103, Range 9,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Arashio
DD Natsugumo
DD Minegumo
DD Asagumo

Allied Ships
TM-4, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
TM-5, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
TM-6, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
TM-7, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
MTB 7, Shell hits 1
MTB 8, Shell hits 3, and is sunk


Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 60% moonlight: 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 9,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 9,000 yards
Imazato, Hiroshi crosses the 'T'
DD Asagumo engages MTB 8 at 9,000 yards
DD Natsugumo engages MTB 7 at 9,000 yards
DD Arashio engages MTB 7 at 9,000 yards
Range closes to 7,000 yards
DD Arashio engages MTB 8 at 7,000 yards
DD Natsugumo engages TM-5 at 7,000 yards
TM-5 sunk by DD Arashio at 7,000 yards
DD Minegumo engages TM-4 at 7,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
MTB 8 sunk by DD Arashio at 3,000 yards
DD Minegumo engages MTB 7 at 3,000 yards
TM-6 sunk by DD Natsugumo at 3,000 yards
DD Asagumo engages TM-4 at 3,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
DD Asagumo engages TM-4 at 2,000 yards
DD Arashio engages MTB 7 at 2,000 yards
TM-4 sunk by DD Asagumo at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
DD Minegumo engages MTB 7 at 3,000 yards
DD Minegumo engages TM-7 at 3,000 yards
DD Natsugumo engages TM-7 at 3,000 yards
DD Arashio engages MTB 7 at 3,000 yards
Abbott J. orders Allied TF to disengage
Range closes to 2,000 yards
DD Asagumo engages TM-7 at 2,000 yards
TM-7 sunk by DD Minegumo at 2,000 yards
DD Arashio engages MTB 7 at 2,000 yards
DD Minegumo engages MTB 7 at 2,000 yards
DD Arashio engages MTB 7 at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 5,000 yards
Range increases to 7,000 yards
DD Asagumo engages MTB 7 at 7,000 yards
DD Minegumo engages MTB 7 at 7,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
DD Asagumo engages MTB 7 at 11,000 yards
DD Natsugumo engages MTB 7 at 11,000 yards
Task forces break off...



jmalter -> RE: What SAG do you use to take on MTB's? (11/11/2014 3:50:03 AM)

Good clarification to my post, LST.

In general, TFs perform better when comprised of sister-ships.

For Torpedo-boat action, low moonlight PT TFs (by radar-equipped PTs governed by high Nav/Aggr commanders) are gonna bore in. Conversely, high moonlight favors the defense.



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