What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (Full Version)

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Erik Rutins -> What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/10/2015 3:00:05 PM)

This is purely a hypothetical question, so please don't get overly excited.

I want to pose this to the SP community to help inform my own thoughts on this subject with regard to the future of SPWAW and any (hypothetical) future SP-style game.

If you look back to the original Steel Panthers and all the releases since, what do you consider the most significant and important improvements since the original?

If a new Steel Panthers were to come into being tomorrow, what do you feel should be its key features and strengths, to give you the same feeling you had playing the original SP (or your favorite other version of SP).

Regards,

- Erik



zakblood -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/10/2015 3:18:06 PM)

for me a new engine, with all the bits that go with it, 100% support for modern o/s etc and hardware, bigger,better and faster with more of everything, as to not changing what's not already broken, stick with the right formula and cover many wars and battles and time / periods as the engine can manage, with maps to match, different sizes and scale etc etc...

more of a upgrade to a total remake, idea is solid, campaigns are varied, same as scale, time and units involved, so stick with same format, add in new engine, new maps, new units with plenty of scope for missions, battles and joined campaigns, covering a few times not just a single time frame and another winner is done...

next[&o] [&o][&o]



76mm -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/10/2015 3:46:30 PM)

Erik, thanks for the question... I'd be happy with:
1) full compatibility with modern OS;
2) generally upgraded graphics;
3) full editor support, particularly maps and units; and
4) the ability to edit save game files, or import/export game results to/from the game.



Riitaoja -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/10/2015 8:09:55 PM)

quote:

If you look back to the original Steel Panthers and all the releases since, what do you consider the most significant and important improvements since the original?

For me the most significant improvements in SPWAW over the original Steel Panthers games are:
-Much more realistic and detailed OOBs for the different nations.
-More detailed ballistic and armour calculations.
-Internet online play over TCP/IP.
-larger resolution 800x600 over the original DOS 640x480.
-Excellent sound system with hundreds of realistic sound effects for weapons and vehicles.
-More terrain features and buildings for maps.
-Engineers ability to lay mines as well as clear them.
-Gargo aircraft and gliders with paratroopers.
-Hundreds of other refinements in the combat code and game play too numerous to list here.

quote:

If a new Steel Panthers were to come into being tomorrow, what do you feel should be its key features and strengths, to give you the same feeling you had playing the original SP (or your favorite other version of SP).

Key feature would be that the game was still a top down 2D game with a turn based system similar to what we have in SPWAW now. It should not be 3D or have some sort of real time or semi-turn based system. We already have those 3D games with the Combat Mission series and the real time version with the Close Combat series.

I understand that any new game would not be as huge in content as SPWAW is. Even the first Steel Panthers game by SSI had just a couple of campaigns and i think less than fifty scenarios. It did have a random battle generator and a campaign generator though.

The sheer scope of the game is what have made it so unique. You have 27 nations to play with in SPWAW with their own OOB's and historicaly accurate units (hundreds of them). Many WW2 games are limited to just Germany vs. USA and often have just a couple of unit types available. Also in SPWAW we can play from 1930 to 1949 and cover all the theathres! The size of the battles can range from a couple of infantry squads to a hundred tanks and several companies of infantry.

Yet another key feature is the ability for users to easily create new maps, scenarios and even campaigns!



Rodwonder -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/10/2015 10:42:38 PM)

All of the above... Plus- Higher elevations, Larger maps, Battalion commanders, I'm a fan of small battles to ultra large battles, sometimes the bigger the better and more victory conditions such as exit and timed holding. Also a slightly larger graphical hex so you can see the units better when stacked.



rwenstrup -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/10/2015 11:26:12 PM)

The Mega Campaigns have always been the best draw for me...developing a story line that gives a battle context and creates the struggle to maintain valuable assets...
It would be great to have a talented writer create the story line, and to increase the depth of the campaign experience.
With the advent of downloadable content, and the clearly successful efforts in developing more involved story lines (which games like Crusader Kings 2 have shown), a new level of player immersion has been enabled.
The Mega Campaigns are an avenue to put Steel Panthers into a lead product once again, and the downloadable content deliverable provides an ongoing source of revenue to enable cost effective product upgrading...and a source of considerable profit...



GiveWarAchance -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/11/2015 12:53:31 AM)

Try to keep it much the same with updated resolution, sound and graphics to fit with modern computers easier. As for the game, I'd like to have more Long, Long Road to Victory and Korsun Pocket and Chosen Few type of campaigns which are fun and unpredictable.

And please include the ability to put units on AI control during battles (like the original game has) and maybe have dedicated support units which are always on AI control. I like the feeling of having 'teammates' even in solo play.

Please keep in resupply ability with trucks and ammo dumps. I think mortars and other arty should include both attrition and suppression rather than only suppression and some units like airborne and waffen SS should have shorter suppression because they more used to gunfire.

Biggest new thing I would like is urban combat using buildings. Before I think buildings add somewhat of a defensive bonus plus they limited visibility. I think urban combat is fun and should be a bigger part of the game. And maybe add in more with boats and ships.

And having multinational battlegroups would be cool like Germany and Italy working together in North Africa or US & Britain in Normandy.



sanch -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/12/2015 12:08:57 AM)

Volume control on the sound! I have to almost turn my speakers off when playing.

Good game - it will be nice if something new and improved actually comes out of this!



DROregon -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/12/2015 5:24:00 AM)

…what do you consider the most significant and important improvements since the original?

1. Refinements in the combat calculations, including “Enhanced” & “Low Carnage”.
2. Campaigns: Computer Generator, User Defined, and Mega-Campaigns.

If a new Steel Panthers were to come into being tomorrow, what do you feel should be its key
features and strengths?

1. Updated Platform
a. Windows 7 & higher
b. Screen resolution beyond 600x800
c. Retain top-down IGO-UGO
d. Retain the many nations (with open spots for new user defined)
e. Retain combat calculations
f. Retain Command & Control
g. Retain Preference-style ability to adjust playing options
h. Retain Scenario & Campaign generators
i. Retain open architecture for oob, maps, graphics, text, etc
j. Retain Encyclopedia
k. Retain PBEM
l. Allow weapon fire through smoke
m. Allow vehicle/tanks to backup
n. Allow larger oob files beyond 250 weapons & units and 200 formations
o. Allow multi-national opponents in large computer-generated scenarios
p. Improve AI to better use combined arms (don’t always lead with tanks)
q. Smart VHs (e.g. high ground overlooks, road junctions, bridges, cities/towns)

2. Editors
a. Retain/Enhance Scenario Editor
b. Retain/Enhance Campaign Editor
c. New oob Editor
d. New Map Editor
e. New Map Graphics Editor
f. New Unit Graphics Editor

3. Mega-Campaigns (sold separately)
a. As an optional purchase by gamers
b. As incremental revenue to developers

I think it would be great if Matrix delivered a new platform for SPWAW like CMANO did for Harpoon.




sami heimola -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/12/2015 11:06:52 AM)

Well at least these come into mind:

1."stronger" AI[:'(]
2.updated graphics(icons,terrains, maybe more elevations like in WinSPWW2)
3.wider maps (let's say 160 or 180x200 hex)
4.ability to load pre-made map in campaign game (as in WinSPWW2/MBT)
5.artillery fire bug fix[:'(] (no more press "shift" in artillery menu)






Riitaoja -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/12/2015 12:14:28 PM)

The die hard fans would ofcourse like to see everything that is in SPWAW now and nothing major changed.
However I think realisticaly we would not get an exact copy of SPWAW with just better graphics and some new features added.
We would get a completely new game with many things changed. However the basic Steel Panthers "feel" should still be there.



Major_Mess -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/12/2015 7:41:33 PM)

Erik, thanks again for this opportunity. Believe me, to many folks just this dialogue is a dream come true.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
This is purely a hypothetical question, so please don't get overly excited.


Nope, you can't tell me what to do. At any moment now I might very well get extremely excited. [:D]




You had some Q's

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
If you look back to the original Steel Panthers and all the releases since, what do you consider the most significant and important improvements since the original?


* Game Editors. All of them.
* PBEM (and online play too)
* The willingness of the dev's and programmers to interact with, and listen to the people.
* The above mentioned acting upon many of the valid suggestions presented to them.
* A consistent, solid, knowledgeable community (thanks internet). I would like to add, one that is overall a very grown-up, mature and respectful bunch. Super easy to work with.
* Tools and Mods and other stuff that this community has continued to develop.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
If a new Steel Panthers were to come into being tomorrow, what do you feel should be its key features and strengths ...


A refinement of the combat routines. As most everyone states, the philosophy (and the math) driving the game engine for combat works pretty damn good. That part ain't really broken, no need to start from scratch IMHO.
Of course there still would/should be changes - all for the better of course [:)]
Starting fresh there can be way more granularity (is that the right word?) in all the various calculations.
Armor values/damage etc etc all expanded and dialled in.

* 2D Top Down. 50 meter hexes. Don't ever need to mess with that.
* More slots for everything. Keep those Grognards happy.
* Improved video resolution, it certainly doesn't need to be HD quality buts lets get in the 21st century at least with this.
* Better integration / improved functionality of all the editors. Learn from Chlanda's and ectizen's apps, see what they access and adjust, that's what we want. That's what we need!

Maps.
The canvas needs to be improved.

OK, first off. I know nuthin' from nuthin', so if I sound like I don't know what I'm talking about it's because I don't.

There's dozens and dozens of PC games out there that have the geography as an important feature. Matrix has prolly got more than a few in their stable. Of course they do.
Can something a bit more realistic looking be borrowed / copied / ported over? Something?

Maps have got to be multi-level. Lots and lots of levels.
And larger, way larger.

Irregardless, Map editing should be easier for the end user. Expanded options / improved functionality. Palettes and graphics in way, way more accessible/editable formats. Or the proper tools provided for the job.
Allow the ability to easily add custom packages.

Hey! What would be completely fantastic would be the ability to import topo maps from one of the various services out there. Is that even possible?


Ideally, I kinda envision a system where a topographical map is generated with levels of, let's say 2 meters or so. The layers are created with no respect towards the hex-grid. I mean that there could be different levels (and terrain for that matter) in a single hex. From there all geographical attributes and graphical icons are easily added with the tools provided.



I could go on and on and on .....


HTH


cheers


Major Mess



Hexes.
I had a thought, In a brand new version, what if the hex-grid is not based on the map, but on the Unit. Does that make any sense. Is this a new and exciting idea, or old and something I've stolen?
Whatever, I digress.



Erik,

IMHO, if Matrix wishes to move forward at all with SPWaW, there's one thing that you guys could investigate that would showcase to all that Matrix is back in the game (SPWaW wise at least).

Look into increasing the video resolution of what we have right now. If that other mob could pull that off with even older code, I'm thinkin' that Matrix could also make that play. Like I typed above, I know nothing except that in the year 2015 it should be at least a possibility. I'm hopin'.

You get that done, and all by itself you've got SPWaW V9.0 for (I dunno) little effort.
Notice Served, Matrix is serious.


I think you'd be very surprised at who would come out of the woodwork if that was announced. I think the talent pool for the building of the next iteration would be amazing.


That's enough out of me for now.
Thanks again

MM


edited for clarity



KG Erwin -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/13/2015 12:55:06 AM)

The most significant improvement has been in the accuracy of the OOBs, an effort which was done by the Enhanced Team. The second-most significant improvement has been in the devising of the Low-Carnage combat settings (which I believe should be standardized as the default).

As for future improvements, certainly the AI could be made better, and units should have 5 or 6 options for weapons slots, rather than the current 4. This would certainly simplify the OOBs for several nations as they evolved during the war (notably the USMC).

And, of course, more Mega Campaigns!

One more thing, as a more distant future thought: an expansion of the time-frame to the present day, so we could recreate battles in Korea, Vietnam and the Middle East.



Zap -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/13/2015 6:13:02 AM)

Not sure it has been mentioned. make it possible to select more than one unit at a time for movement.



Riitaoja -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/13/2015 5:06:19 PM)

quote:

Not sure it has been mentioned. make it possible to select more than one unit at a time for movement.

Yep larger battles with alot of movement tend to get a bit tedious when there was no option to select multiple units and issue them a move order together.

quote:

* 2D Top Down. 50 meter hexes. Don't ever need to mess with that.

I kinda agree with that but what if one hex would be 25 meters? Basic computer monitors have pretty high resolutions today and it is not that uncommon to have 20 inch or larger screens. So a 25 meter hex could be used instead of 50 meters. The units could be in a more realistic scale this way...

Going into eye candy it could be cool if the tanks had animated tracks and they could leave track marks on the ground when they move. More impressive death animations too with ammo cooking of and sparks flying everywhere when a tank gets a critical hit and explodes. Other hits could blow off a track with a graphical illustration when the tank tries to move and the cut off track is left in the gound. This type of detail would be possible to implement if the scale of the game graphics was more realistic.



aussem1 -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/18/2015 4:27:18 AM)

I have played SPWaW and most of the variants for many years and indeed I even played ASL (Advanced Squad Leader), what I consider to be Steel Panther's originator/inspiration. Truly loved these games and see them as one long extension of inspired tactical wargaming. :) My one big wish is to see any new game/variant made to run on Mac OS. I would be super pleased and impressed if we could just agree on one 'updated' standard (with low carnage as a must) and then port it to Mac. Happy to even pay for it all over again. Please, please, can we port it to Mac!!! ?



Fradar -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/20/2015 2:09:59 PM)


Erik,
I e-mailed you my wish list. Concerning the mechanics of the game:
- Tunnels where men,vehicles, trains could move through. I made many scenarios with trains moving through tunnels but it requires a lot of cheating. This could also be used as subway, sewer system and allow troops to move unseen from one point to another. Junctions would be needed.
- Trains that move altogether as a train. In my train scenarios trains controlled by the AI can only move piecemeal.
- Tanks that can back up still facing the enemy.
- Towing immobilized vehicles to bring them to a safe place where they could repair more quickly. This should be facilitated with special repair units. When a MG would malfunction it could be replaced.
- Tanks should not fire backwards. itis a bit gamey.
- Onboard artillery and AT guns should not opfire when they are attacked on their flanks. It is impossible to turn a gun in such a short time.
Otherwise we need better graphics/SHP as detailed in my wish list.
François



RockinHarry -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/27/2015 9:40:02 PM)

some wishes for upgraded or polished Steel Panthers:

Higher screen resolutions
Windows compatibility from XP onwards
Relative spotting system (no more borg spotting)
refined urban combat environments with multi story buildings incl. basements
wider range of terrain height levels
terrain height level independant water features (creeks, lakes..)
better map editor, that also allows building a map from an overlay of real maps
generally better and maybe customizable AI
more unit & weapon slots in OOB
refinements of the IGOYGO system. A WEGO would be interesting as well.







JEB Davis -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/28/2015 11:57:48 AM)

JEB Davis' Wishlist for new SP:WAW

I first stress that I LOVE the way the game plays currently!
It is hands-down the best computer game of my life.

Things NOT to change or remove:

- Keep top-down hex format
- Keep 50-meter hex scale with option for yards
- Keep turn-based
- Keep all the current options in Preferences Screen
- Keep Encyclopedia
- Keep the 1mm armor thickness increments
- Keep the lightning-fast game response to inputs
- No more Eye-Candy animation is needed, this would just slow the game
- Don't require fancy graphics cards to play it

Things to IMPROVE or FIX:

- Larger maps
- Add one more level of zoom-out
- Realistic scaling of graphics (no more 50-meter wide roads & houses and 25-meter tanks)
- Increase number of units & formations per battle (at least double them)
- More OOB slots
- A few more country slots, including one Allied & one Axis for "generic" units
- Increase the maximum Time Per Turn for Online/Timed Play Modes
- Fix the problems with Online Play
- Easier editing of maps, scenarios, campaigns, OOBs
- More map elevations
- A toggle option to provide rubber rafts, rather than how it is now
- MEGA campaigns fixed to not crash with C&C ON
- C&C should be ON by default
- Tweak the fall of OBA artillery shells for more randomness in more historically accurate radius
- Smoke as a reduction in visibility, not a wall
- Control over amount of smoke grenades for infantry in OOBs
- AI
- Higher screen resolution support
- When purchasing company formations, the ability to substitute platoons and maintain command structure
- Limit number of smoke shells fired per turn just as AP/HE is now
- Limit infantry to one smoke use per turn, with no movement in that turn allowed
- Ability to save game part way through deployment in PBEM mode
- Fix bug: Vehicle breaks down while moving and passengers unload then get their full movement
- Tweak the unit purchase cost thresholds to finer gradations, i.e., no 25% jump at 70 EXP level
- Longer artillery call delay for offboard batteries and on-board artillery
- No nation (e.g. US Army) should get a 0.1 artillery delay
- Dramatically increase chance for tanks to be immobilized when running through buildings
- Fix movement paths so vehicles don't plunge through hedges/bocage so easily
- Fix bug: When units enter rubber rafts, their objective hex changes to 0,0 which prevents movement toward the right map edge
- Shell crater graphics that get progressively worse rather than cycle

Cool NEW features:

- Op-Fire filtering, something simple like: a) only armor targets, b) only infantry targets, c) only soft targets, d) etc.
- Customizable ammo supply units for different categories of ammo: small arms / mortar / artillery / tank
- Allow repair of disabled/jammed weapons like we have for fixing immobililty now
- Reverse movement for vehicles, but this must be done with realistic limits especially for tanks
- Field-of-traverse limitations for towed weapons, pivoting entire weapon takes time
- Field-of-fire limitations for non-turreted vehicles (a.k.a. the "spinning StuG" phenomena)
- Loading/Unloading units should use part/all of their movement allowances
- Towing of disabled vehicles using recovery vehicles or other capable vehicles (tanks towed other tanks in the war)
- Limited intel of distant spotted units, rather than current full identification
- Realism Preferences selectable separately for each Nation involved
- New terrain type: Dense Forest that is impassable to vehicles



RockinHarry -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/28/2015 6:32:41 PM)

Many excellent suggestions from other posters here, particularly from Major Mess and DROregon, that I might add to mine as well! [8D]

Can´t quite remember all the features added since SP 1, but since the further development of SP 3 to SPWAW to latest V 8.03, I very much welcomed everything enhancing realism, as well as adding more terrain types and off course Mega Campaigns. Hard to tell what all would make me exited about a new SP, but as long as Gary Grigsby is at it himself, I know it would become another masterpiece! [&o] Though quite remember my excitement, when SP 1 came out, after years of playing Kampfgruppe, Panzer Strike and Typhon of Steel! [:D]



Twotribes -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (2/28/2015 10:12:32 PM)

I want the ability to buy units for my game ( already implemented) and then be able to break up and add singles from a set like a company buy with out the problem of who will be in command. Basically what happens now is if you break up the unit the leader of that unit may outrank the leader of the unit you want to add the singleton to. That means the added unit at the end of the unit quay is now the leader.

I know it is petty but it is what I want ). Love the suggestions.



TerribleIvan -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (3/6/2015 7:26:52 AM)

All these suggestions are great. After all these years I can still feel the LOVE from this loyal community.

Here're 2 things I'd really love to see improved if possible in the next gen SPWAW:

- fix the "city map" generation routine, so that random city maps look more like city (e.g. with streets between mostly rectangular blocks of buildings) instead of a giant block of massive congested buildings with one vertical street and one horizontal street through it.

- improve the AI "deployment" routine before the start of a random battle. Right now ALL countries deploy their forces in one style, as far as I can tell. For example if the AI is delaying, pretty much all their infantry is up front near the start line, then some AT guns in the middle section, and maybe two groups of armors near the upper and lower edge of the map. Ideally the new, improved AI can deploy their forces more in line with their historical doctrine of their country. But even if that's too hard to program, I'd like to see at least some more variations or randomness to this one single, highly predictable force deployment routine.

Thanks for listening to us, Matrix!



kujalar -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (3/27/2015 8:05:29 AM)

I would like to see better field fortifications.

I mean entrenchements where you could hide well fortified from machinegune fire unless your troops try to shoot anything and where you could move troops from hex to hex concealed etc.

Then I would like to see modern enchantsments for a user interface and better multiplayer. With better I mean less clikcs and faster gameplay.

Perhaps there could be a possibilites for a multiplayer games with more than 2 players and multiplayer style campaigns.
SteelPanhters ONLINE :) step in as a Company commander or brigade commander or something more!
Maybe even a huge map for ongoing onlinebattles where you could lead your unit to achieve victory.

How could you do this ? I don't know but if someone could do it well it would be great.









Major_Mess -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (3/27/2015 10:34:59 PM)

"What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?"


What I would like to see is a new Steel Panthers


MM



Riitaoja -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (3/28/2015 2:02:18 PM)

I really hope that things are happening behind the scenes.

Then again at the same time I'm conserned that if something does come out of this it will be nothing like the previous game and instead somekind of streamlined and dumbed down adaptation.

In the past there has been projects to make a new "SPWAW" by Matrix Games. However those have all been canceled. I would imagine that alot of work went into those projects and it could be reused in a new game. Or has it all been lost?

Combat Leader:
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/284/details/



Major_Mess -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (3/31/2015 8:04:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Riitaoja

I really hope that things are happening behind the scenes.

......................

In the past there has been projects to make a new "SPWAW" by Matrix Games. However those have all been canceled. I would imagine that alot of work went into those projects and it could be reused in a new game. Or has it all been lost?

Combat Leader:
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/284/details/



Boy. I'd sure like to take a look at the maps/editors, whatnot on that Combat Leader project. I thought it was just vapourware, but I guess I was wrong.



MM



Major_Mess -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (4/16/2015 7:43:35 PM)

BUMP!



JEB Davis -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (4/16/2015 8:33:47 PM)

I highly recommend adding our two cents and a vote for SP:WAW in this General post:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3821633

BY THE WAY... OUR BELOVED GAME IS THE HIGHEST RANKED GAME IN THAT POST OF OLD GAMES THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO BE UPDATED.

Let's get some more votes for it and make it SO OBVIOUS that it can't be ignored!



Warhorse -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (4/16/2015 9:04:10 PM)

WOW!! Haven't been here in a while now, focused on helping develop the new Middle East game for Campaign Series. I helped originally to make SPWAW, and always loved it, it doesn't like to play very well sometimes on my new rig, but a new one would be fantastic! We started on Combat Leader way back, but lost track of what ever happened to it? I'm so glad there is even talk of a new one, I loved making the graphics for the "Old Girl"!!



Major_Mess -> RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? (4/16/2015 10:41:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Warhorse

WOW!! Haven't been here in a while now, focused on helping develop the new Middle East game for Campaign Series. I helped originally to make SPWAW, and always loved it, it doesn't like to play very well sometimes on my new rig, but a new one would be fantastic! We started on Combat Leader way back, but lost track of what ever happened to it? I'm so glad there is even talk of a new one, I loved making the graphics for the "Old Girl"!!


Still a Believer.

Welcome Brother, there is many of us already.



MM



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