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Menschenfresser -> Back to the Long War (3/15/2015 4:06:51 PM)

I purchased the original WitP not long after it came out, played it for a while and stopped. I enjoyed some parts, but I felt the map scale was too abstract. I did not have a lot of time back then either. Since AE was announced and hit the streets, I knew I'd enjoy it much more for this reason alone. Finally, last night I added it to my collection of long play games at which I completely suck (Operational Art of War, IL-2 and Steel Panthers) but love. And will probably play on and off til I die, or Microsoft makes an OS that won't run them.

A lot has changed...

Newbie question of the day concerns the AKLs. Any advice on using these. My only idea is to spread them out and use them for local supply runs. But there seems to be a ton of them which has me guessing if this is all the action I line up for them, many will just sit in port. Granted, I'm a poor strategist and ships under my command routinely sail beneath falling bombs, so I will probably need a lot. Just curious.

Wow, and I'm responsible for training pilots now. I don't recall that level of detail in the original. That's a lot of responsibility. I'm sure I'll mismanage that.

Burma -- I never completely understood it in WitP and last night I spent a lot of time looking at that part of the map. I think I understand the Burma road layout, but I'm left with a question. Land-based movement: Can I move units by foot from, say, Imphal to the south? Or once Rangoon falls, is it practically impossible to get units over the river to hold the Burma road?

Oh, and lastly, the Allied supply. US supply still seems to be roughly the same game. Just pull fuel and supplies from California. But what about the off map western locations? Do all four of them produce supplies and fuel? One more than the others?

Thanks, Z



Yaab -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/15/2015 4:16:33 PM)

Ad xAKLs

Most of them move 2 hexes per phase, but there are some who make 3 hexes per phase. Look for cruise speed of 11 knots. You will find some fast xAKLs in Australia. I use the fast ones on the Townsville - Port Moresby route, where Port Moresby needs supplies but has an undeveloped port at start.




Malagant -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/15/2015 4:19:34 PM)

I use AKLs extensively in small ports where bigger ships/task forces wouldn't be able to dock. Also for shorter runs where higher endurance isn't needed.



Menschenfresser -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/15/2015 9:56:25 PM)

Something odd. So I'm a few days into the war. Initially I added all the damaged ships to a giant TF I intended to send back to SF. A turn later, ready to get underway, I removed the remaining battleships because they would slow up the rest of the fleet. I would send them back separately.

Another turn or two later and they're gone. I checked the sunk ship list and I think another sunk a day or two later, but I still think I'm missing some.

It's showing the Maryland, Arizona, California and Tennessee as being sunk. Granted I don't recall every last one, but aren't I at least missing the Nevada and the Oklahoma? The base main window shows 4 under BB, but they aren't in the list. Also the mouse over shows 4. It's probably just me missing something...



crsutton -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/15/2015 11:36:00 PM)

Until the LST and LCI come on line for the Allies the AKLs are invaluable. You will be surprised how easy it is to run out of them. You have the right ideal local supply and troop movments.



witpqs -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/15/2015 11:44:59 PM)

There is some mixing of metaphors here... xAKL and AKL are different (same as the difference between xAK and AK). The AKL, with their built-in greater amphibious capability, are even more valuable than the xAKL (which are plenty useful as others noted).



Menschenfresser -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/15/2015 11:52:57 PM)

Yes, my fault on that. My original post meant xAKLs, but good info on both counts. Thanks.



Anthropoid -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/16/2015 1:13:03 AM)

Nothing wrong with putting a 4000 Endurance xAKL in a cargo TF with 16,000 Endurance xAKs though is there? When the xAKL's get thirsty, they'll sip from other ships in the TF like they did in WiTP, right?

Seem to recall that I used to frequently move very low Endurance vessels to distant places by simply putting them into an Escort TF with ships that had lots of Endurance.



wdolson -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/16/2015 3:58:17 AM)

Putting a short ranged ship in with longer range ships will work, but the TF will slow down every time the short ranged ship or ships need to be refueled.

Bill



Menschenfresser -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/16/2015 4:09:54 AM)

Recollections back to WitP, I saw this when appending destroyers to convoys a little out of their range.



witpqs -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/16/2015 4:16:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Menschenfresser

Recollections back to WitP, I saw this when appending destroyers to convoys a little out of their range.

A long time ago in AE there was an improvement to the logic whereby the shorter ranged ship will not attempt to refuel all the time, only when its fuel falls below some percentage of capacity. I forget the number but I think it might be like 70%. The point is they will refuel and stay well topped-up, but they won't be trying to refuel daily as was the problem that I think you are describing.



Sauvequipeut -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/16/2015 7:33:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Menschenfresser

Something odd. So I'm a few days into the war. Initially I added all the damaged ships to a giant TF I intended to send back to SF. A turn later, ready to get underway, I removed the remaining battleships because they would slow up the rest of the fleet. I would send them back separately.

Another turn or two later and they're gone. I checked the sunk ship list and I think another sunk a day or two later, but I still think I'm missing some.

It's showing the Maryland, Arizona, California and Tennessee as being sunk. Granted I don't recall every last one, but aren't I at least missing the Nevada and the Oklahoma? The base main window shows 4 under BB, but they aren't in the list. Also the mouse over shows 4. It's probably just me missing something...



Ships won't show up in the port ship list if they are under a repair mode (ie pierside, in shipyard etc), even though they still appear on the mouseover. On the port screen, there is an option to show 'Ships under repair'. Clich that to see what's in the body and fender shop at that port.

PS - When dealing with the aftermath of a Pearl harbour strike, don't overlook that Pearl has a perfectly good shipyard plus some AR's, so there's no need to send all the damaged ships to SF. The repair boys won't (hopefully) have much to do until the '42 upgrades kick in so you might as well take advantage. General drill seems to be: cruiser or smaller, fully repair in Pearl shipyard. The old battleships will take a long time to fix (and you don't want them clogging Pearls shipyard for a year), so park them pierside until as much damage as possible is fixed. Then it's really on a sip-by-ship basis whether they can make the West Coast (or Panama, en-route to offmap East Coast shipyard) as is, or if they need some shipyard time to patch up some more. Set to 'cruise speed' and given a decent ASW escort, even a moderately dinged up BB should be OK to send from Pearl.



Sardaukar -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/16/2015 9:45:24 AM)

Not also that if port has over 1000 ships those over the limit won't show on list. it's rare, but can happen in SF.



HansBolter -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/16/2015 12:36:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Menschenfresser

Recollections back to WitP, I saw this when appending destroyers to convoys a little out of their range.

A long time ago in AE there was an improvement to the logic whereby the shorter ranged ship will not attempt to refuel all the time, only when its fuel falls below some percentage of capacity. I forget the number but I think it might be like 70%. The point is they will refuel and stay well topped-up, but they won't be trying to refuel daily as was the problem that I think you are describing.


This is also the mechanism that allows the very short legged AMs, KVs and SCs to serve as escorts for long legged cargo and transport TFs.

Without this most Allied TFs would be unprotected as there are never enough DDs to use them for escorting anything but warships.



m10bob -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/16/2015 1:09:29 PM)

California is not the only reliable place from which to draw supply. The map has a few ports which are "supply sinks" which will leap in supply figures.
Sydney is a great one and it needs lots of LST's and AK types stationed there to distibute it!.
Designate ships from there as "CS" typs to keep them regularly going to particular points in that neck of the woods.
The Japanese keep subs all over the place down there (as in real life) so expect frustrations early on as your ASW type ships will never seem adequate.(In real life, at one point during "Operation Shoestring", the USN was down to ONE active/undamaged destroyer!.

Historically, Australia started the war with Ansons, so you may wish to consider using your own customized scenerios..Ansons are very useful ASW types, if nothing else but to locate enemy subs which will notify those CS cargo convoys......[;)]



Menschenfresser -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/16/2015 7:37:02 PM)

Oh ****, so Australia doesn't need supply from the US. Again, perhaps my WitP memory is bad, but I was going on the notion that Australia had no intrinsic supply. That makes things somewhat less complicated...he says without really thinking about it. :)



witpqs -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/16/2015 7:54:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Menschenfresser

Oh ****, so Australia doesn't need supply from the US. Again, perhaps my WitP memory is bad, but I was going on the notion that Australia had no intrinsic supply. That makes things somewhat less complicated...he says without really thinking about it. :)

Not exactly that - If you get adequate fuel (and oil helps too) to Australia then IIRC it will supply itself. As the scenarios have no excess oil production in US, you have to get oil there from Abadan or elsewhere (at various game times! [:D]). Fuel of course is plentiful in the US, but shipping it not so easy early on. So, you might send supply early and only a little supply and lots of fuel after a while. Of course you might send some supply with the intention of staging it there for offensives.



wdolson -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/17/2015 1:18:41 AM)

If you're going to use Australia as a major staging ground for US troops and aircraft, you'll probably need to move some supplies there too. With enough fuel for heavy industry, the country can supply its own needs of supply OK with a little left over for US needs. If you do a major US build up and major base building program, Australia will almost certainly need supply shipped in. The US has lots of xAKs, so it's not going to break the bank.

Bill



Menschenfresser -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/17/2015 1:31:24 AM)

Thanks for the tips. I've already sent several large convoys of AKs and TKs toward the US. They aren't far from Sydney, but I think I'll let them make a trip to PH or SF anyway. I do plan on using Australia as a staging area and it's sorta close to everything if it has to be moved a second time.

Japanese subs are scoring some good hits on me.

Yep...those BBs were exactly where you said they were. The secret repair menu. I guess I'm doing it backwards then...as usual. Cruisers to the West Coast and Battleships in PH. There are soooo many new buttons to click on every menu. I plan on clicking one new button each turn until I've clicked them all. :)



Misconduct -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/17/2015 1:41:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Menschenfresser


quote:

I plan on clicking one new button each turn until I've clicked them all. :)


WITP is known as Clickfest for a reason :)



Menschenfresser -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/17/2015 1:51:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Misconduct
WITP is known as Clickfest for a reason :)


And I thought I'd outgrown clickfests when I quit playing Total War games. I'm a long time TOAW player and some of its monster scenarios have been known to break mice.



m10bob -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/17/2015 1:43:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Menschenfresser

Thanks for the tips. I've already sent several large convoys of AKs and TKs toward the US. They aren't far from Sydney, but I think I'll let them make a trip to PH or SF anyway. I do plan on using Australia as a staging area and it's sorta close to everything if it has to be moved a second time.

Japanese subs are scoring some good hits on me.

Yep...those BBs were exactly where you said they were. The secret repair menu. I guess I'm doing it backwards then...as usual. Cruisers to the West Coast and Battleships in PH. There are soooo many new buttons to click on every menu. I plan on clicking one new button each turn until I've clicked them all. :)


I failed to mention early in the game you WILL need to send supplies to Australia, especially to Sydney to "water the garden"..
It does not become a supply provider of its' own till fed, and my friends have told you exactly how to do it.
In my current game, I am sending maybe 15-20 tankers from the American west coast,(Vancouver to San Diego) with many "CS" type convoys to all areas of the Pacific.
My greatest help has been to be knowledgable of the actual history of the war and either replicate what actually happened, or learn why those things happened.
In hindsight, we may choose to capture certain places BEFORE they become built up..



Anthropoid -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/17/2015 4:19:04 PM)

Sorry, what is a "CS type convoy?"



m10bob -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/17/2015 4:29:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Sorry, what is a "CS type convoy?"

From any port which has a good supply, you may create a cargo convoy to transfer cargo to another port on a permanent basis, only to be interrupted by yourself.
Some folks prefer to let the computer set up "auto-convoy" and hope for the best..I don't..I do use auto convoys but the same button will also go to another listing called "CS" which allows you to designate a convoy to go from point "a" to the "point B" of YOUR choosing..
Seattle and Vancouver are "supply sinks and as the war progresses will create HUGE amounts of supplies..I send lots of cargo ships to those ports and spread the load around since Frisco alone will become overburdened with shipping if you overlook this great feature of the game..



Anthropoid -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/17/2015 4:34:41 PM)

Thanks!



m10bob -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/17/2015 4:37:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Thanks!



You are welcome...but we will still find that secret underground lair...................



Anthropoid -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/17/2015 4:51:49 PM)

Its buried under bird poop! [:D]



m10bob -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/17/2015 5:14:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Its buried under bird poop! [:D]



I said "we"...and I won't be hefting any shovels............[sm=scared0018.gif]



Itdepends -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/18/2015 10:15:56 AM)

Note that you can set a return cargo for the CS convoys in case you want them to pick up a return load of resources for example



Menschenfresser -> RE: Back to the Long War (3/18/2015 8:12:23 PM)

Oh, cool! I was wondering if that was a thing I just hadn't discovered. I'll be on the lookout for it.



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