RE: Lovely Map

RE: Lovely Map (Full Version)

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Lowpe -> RE: Lovely Map (5/26/2015 2:52:24 PM)
Wow! Bravo.[&o] The question then becomes what do Allies do? 1. Max effort to break siege. 2. Attack elsewhere. 3. Duck and cover. After Pearl falls: Big effort to take it? Why? What does it get Michael. Focus on striking the SRA/Burma/Solomons? Will be fascinating to follow.

John 3rd -> RE: Lovely Map (5/26/2015 9:23:01 PM)
It is truly an interesting situation. If Pearl Harbor hasn't gotten any supplies since Dec 7th (and I believe that to be fact) then Michael is in serious trouble. Once we take Lahaina, I have decided to truly initiate the pressure. The ENTIRE CV Fleet will unite and we shall do a series of MASSED Zero Sweeps. Quick count reveals roughly 500 ZEROS avaiable for this. Once the Aerial resistance has been pummeled then we begin a bombing campaign at high altitude and slowly drop our level... The first SWEEP or two will be bloody but I figure we'll just wear him down. Biggest concern is his reinforcing PH by air transfer from his CVs. When we gain a reasonable control of the air, the CVs will pull back for R&R and then we go RAIDING!

Sangeli -> RE: Lovely Map (5/26/2015 10:00:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John 3rd When we gain a reasonable control of the air, the CVs will pull back for R&R and then we go RAIDING! Hmmmm...I wonder if raiding is a luxury you cannot afford right now. Michael knows you have committed to Hawaii and is likely making plans under the assumption the KB won't leave the CentPac any time soon. You may be able to foil whatever Michael is planning with a KB attack. For example, this would be the perfect time for Michael to decisively reinforce New Caledonia and the New Hebrides. Given enough time to set up defenses here, you may never get a chance to take this area even after PH comes. But if the KB came around in the nearish future...well that could break everything Michael has planned. The difficulty is determining where the Allies are going to focus defenses in the next few weeks. Because you certainly are better off raiding than sortieing against a phantom threat that won't materialize.

John 3rd -> RE: Lovely Map (5/26/2015 11:25:27 PM)
That is a good point. I know that Michael doesn't have much in SOPAC. Remember--it is Feb 1942. Like the idea of a pull back and then strike to keep him off-balance but MUST have PH area strong enough to protect itself AND have enough strength to swing south. Force Totals: JAPAN: Have to rearrange the Carriers. Current Strength: 5 CV, 5 CVL, 2 CAV, and 3 CVE. I'll get Akagi back and Junyo in 3 weeks. Specifics: CV: Amagi (78), Hiryu/Soryu (69), Shokaku/Zuikaku (72) TOTAL: 360 Planes CVL: Ryujo (39), Ryukaku (33), Zuiho--Shoho--Nisshin (30) TOTAL: 162 Planes CAV: Tokachi/Kushiro (30) TOTAL: 60 Planes CVE: Taiyo (27) and Ibuki/Hosho (18) TOTAL: 64 Planes Damaged/New: Akagi (78) and Junyo (58) due out in 20 Days TOTAL: 136 Planes ALLIES: Michael's current strength in the south is 2 CV, 1 Brit CV, 1 Brit CVL, and 4 CL/CAV and on the West Coast 2 CV, 1 CVL with another CV coming soon. SOUTHERN TF Enterprise, Lexington, a BRIT CV, Hermes, USS Charlotte/___________ (24 Planes), HMAS Melbourne/HMNZS Wellington (18 Planes). CENPAC TF Saratoga, Yorktown, and CVL King's Mountain with USS Hornet coming soon. I've got a pretty good idea what I would do but let's have some fun with this. Here is a good question to armchair readers/commentators what would be a reasonable number of decks to leave in CENPAC and what would work going to SOPAC?

Cap Mandrake -> RE: Lovely Map (5/26/2015 11:37:29 PM)
The Allies don't need to directly challenge the carriers in the Hawaiian Is (If they have enough supply there) They can load up P-40's and P-39's onto a carrier deck and fly them off from ferry range to Pearl. Ditto F4F's. This can be done with a single deck or even Long Island. Then they try to trade airframes as long as possible until the IJN has to send the carriers somewhere else. meanwhile they sortie out at night for naval bombardment raids on the Jap airfields and turn off everything that is cosnuming supply at Pearl.

John 3rd -> RE: Lovely Map (5/27/2015 2:24:06 AM)
Problem (for the Americans) is that I don't think there is very much IN Pearl Harbor. The damaged and repaired PH BBs should still be present. We're going to get a better idea pretty quick. I am assigning multiple recon missions to the target. My force at Lihue was attacked by 3CL and 6DD. That is it. I am sure there is more but that is what he used to attack the closest landing force.

HansBolter -> RE: Lovely Map (5/27/2015 11:27:06 AM)
My BTS game is now in mid September '43 so its been a while since my opening turns. In stock, the Americans get a CA deployed in Pearl as a reinforcement on turn 2, not so sure about BTS. It and any other not seriously damaged in the raid may have sailed for other waters by now. I would expect his BBs are all pier side and in drydock. Any with light enough damage to be viable in a SAG would likely need three days time to get unhooked from the pier. Depends on when he first reacted to the incoming force by ordering them away from the piers.

John 3rd -> Lovely Map (5/28/2015 3:35:40 PM)
February 15, 1942 Little-to-Nothing occurs on the map. Hawaii AFs: Lihue AF 1 (25) Kona AF 1 (12) Hilo AF 1 (22) Figure 4-5 days to get two of the AFs up to 2 and I can bring in Kates/Vals. Soon as we hit 3 then I'll bring in the bombers. Have decided to pull three Sentai of Oscars and the same number of Sally/Helen for the PH bombing campaign. THINKING: Have been doing BUNCHES of thinking. My belief is that Michael will do little to save Hawaii. It isn't his style. He'll wait until he has overwhelming strength and THEN show up. If this thinking is accurate, it cause a sea-shift in Japanese Planning. Current Thinking: 1. Eastern Storm Forces shall remain on-guard and support the Lahaina capture (2 Days) then combine all CVs for several massed Zero Sweeps. IF we can knockdown the American Fuighters, then I shall Port Strike PH with high Altitude Kate attacks for a couple of days. This will be costly but should help do the job. Should have the Army Air here within 10-14 days then they takeover the attack with Betty/Nells set for Naval Attack. A total of FIVE ID, an Army HQ, Combined Fleet, and Southern Army will all unite to plan for the landing at Pearl. Target that date about April 1st. Might move that back a month pending on Michael's reactions. 2. We'll re-organize the KB and into the following: KB-1 CARDIV1, CARDIV2, CARDIV5, 2 CVLs and 2 CAVs head for Singapore. KB-2 Junyo, 2 CAV's, and 2 CVLs stay in Hawaiian waters. KB-3 3 CVE will move to Singers. 3. Operational Planning a. We have a number of ID prepping for Diego Garcia and the western shore of Australia. I think taking Western Australian is more of a threat to the Allied cause. We shall plan to do just that. Think I might be able to sucker Michael again. We couldn't connect with the Americans up in the Gulf of Alaska so maybe we can create a second opportunity. Last thing he might expect is for me to pull 2/3 of my CVs out for another operation. The CVEs will provide close CAP for the Invasion Force while KB hangs out to sea and will try to interpose between his forces and Perth. He likes to use Adelaide in southern Aussieland. I am willing to bet that that is where Enterprise/Lexington and company are sitting. WE WANT THOSE SHIPS! We'll target the Western Australian Operation for April 1st as well. Anybody for a suggestion for an Operation NAME for this?

Lowpe -> RE: Lovely Map (5/28/2015 3:39:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John 3rd He likes to use Adelaide in southern Aussieland. I am willing to bet that that is where Enterprise/Lexington and company are sitting. WE WANT THOSE SHIPS! You are relying a lot on his past proclivities. Perhaps he will play outside the box so as to be unpredictable?

John 3rd -> RE: Lovely Map (5/28/2015 3:40:47 PM)
This is possible but I'm willing to bet he won't shift. Look at what ALMOST happened in Alaska. KNEW he would rise to the bait!

Amoral -> RE: Lovely Map (5/28/2015 5:18:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John 3rd We'll target the Western Australian Operation for April 1st as well. Anybody for a suggestion for an Operation NAME for this? Choosing a name that suits the operation is bad OpSec. Go to wikipedia, and click the third link of the third article three times to get a good random word. Operation Terrestrial

Canoerebel -> RE: Lovely Map (5/28/2015 5:47:27 PM)
You're not thinking of detaching your carriers any time soon are you? If so, IMHO you're getting ahead of yourself and dispersing your strike force from an area where you could cause Michael the greatest heartburn and in which you could pose the greatest threat. If and when Pearl Harbor falls, you control basically the entire Pacific Ocean. You are a proximate and frightening threat everywhere including the industry, oil, ports and bases of the United States of America. As long as your carriers are based at Pearl, Michael has to consider the possiblities that you could invade someplace important, that your carriers could strike his oil and his bases up and down the west coast of the USA. You can do strikes, you can fake strikes, you can even invade and take a few bases with airfields and then bomb his industry. Even if you do none of these things, Michael has to worry about them. But if your carriers go to the Indian Ocean, the pressure is off. Michael relaxes. And you basically have done nothing more sexy than taking an island group that Michael wants but doesn't have to have to win the game. So, tell me again what in the heck you want Western Oz for when Western North America is at your disposal?

John 3rd -> RE: Lovely Map (5/29/2015 2:42:26 AM)
Hey Mister Roper! OK. Need to clarify my thinking from above. We're planning for a bit of distance away from the present. For things to occur along what I am thinking, the following needs to occur: 1. Three Hawaiian AF reach Sz-2 or 3+. Currently have 108 Zeros, 27 Kate, 27 Val, 36 Emily/Mavis, and 81 Betty/Nell ready to deploy. Starting our next turn, the movement of 108 Oscars and 108 Sally/Helen will begin moving towards these Bases. Quick counting shows how many AFs of what size to base this massed firepower. 2. Pearl Harbor's Fighters need to be smited down in a convincing manner. Doing this will allow me some freedom of movement. This is what MUST occur before I am begin Operation Terrestrial.

John 3rd -> RE: Lovely Map (5/29/2015 2:57:07 AM)
While we are dealing with Hawaii, I shall finish the conquest of the DEI and set-up for the eventual lunge. Am going to be pulling back about 50% of the AKs present in the Hawaiian Area. Need them to haul resources and supply!

John 3rd -> RE: Lovely Map (5/29/2015 4:12:14 AM)
February 16, 1942 No action at Hawaii. CRAZY! Lihue AF 1 (25 up to 36) Kona AF 1 (12 up to 18) Hilo AF 1 (22 up to a BIG 45) There is action happening elsewhere in the war. Balikpapan falls and we capture ALL of the Oil/refineries without damage. YES! Notice the units present at Balikpapan: [image]local://upfiles/18041/25C58D0E48264CC2BE469AF455C99E60.jpg[/image]

Canoerebel -> RE: Lovely Map (5/29/2015 1:14:42 PM)
IMO, you will be abandoning a much more important theater for a much lesser one. You can absolutely terrorize Michael with possibilities and realities of raids (and possibly more) up and down the West Coast USA. If you want to see an example of just how real the possibilities are, look back at my old "War and Peas" AAR vs. Panzerjaager Hortlund. He had me pulling my hair out in early '42. He did alot with the KB and Alaska plus part of Canada. He didn't even have Hawaii. There was much that he accomplished and much more that he could have done. I had serious problems and no real way to stop him. To me, it's like you have the '27 Yankees but your about to send Gherig and Ruth to play at Single A Binghamton.

John 3rd -> Feb 17, 1942 (5/30/2015 3:17:53 PM)
February 17, 1942 No action in Hawaiian waters except for American ineptitude with useless torpedoes. Hits could have been scored on CVE Hosho (2/16) and CV Amagi (2/17). IRL the Americans responsible for the torpedo fiasco should have been court-martialed. Yes---I KNOW who several of them were! Airfield Construction (all Sz 1): Lihue 36 up to 47 Kona 18 up to 24 Hilo 45 up to 69 (NICE work guys!) The Japanese minefields have been active with several explosions and two sinking 'sounds' heard yesterday and today. Elsewhere Java Batavia: Japanese Deliberate Attack (JDA) gets a 1-2. Tjilatjap: FALLS! Borneo Balikpapan: DMS arrive to clear Allied minefield. Kuching: Brigade arrives to take base. Burma/Eastern India Fast TF loading at Moulmein and heading for an empty Akyab. MSW about to enter Rangoon and clear that harbor. China Central China: I am working to encircle Changsha. Have crossed above and below the base as well as have entered the base itself. Just would like this industrial town. The real goal is to keep Michael fighting here, move troops, and inflict some casualties. The entire operation is meant to mask the movement of 2 ID, 2 Cav units, and 3 smaller INF units moving north towards Ningsia and the oil up in that region. [image]local://upfiles/18041/4EED5536589A4D04A381BAD466B1DB36.jpg[/image]

John 3rd -> RE: Feb 17, 1942 (5/30/2015 5:16:27 PM)
We're headed off for a couple of days of camping near Estes Park. Michael has the turn so he can doing some extensive planning.

obvert -> RE: Lovely Map (5/30/2015 11:35:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Amoral quote: ORIGINAL: John 3rd We'll target the Western Australian Operation for April 1st as well. Anybody for a suggestion for an Operation NAME for this? Choosing a name that suits the operation is bad OpSec. Go to wikipedia, and click the third link of the third article three times to get a good random word. Operation Terrestrial Celestial might be more to the point.

John 3rd -> RE: Lovely Map (6/2/2015 12:46:58 AM)
Home from camping and kicking this BAD BOY off of the 2nd page! Celestial is FUNNY. Might be a bit more to the point. Have to concur on that one...

John 3rd -> February 18, 1942 (6/2/2015 2:35:34 AM)
Combat Report February 18, 1942 Operation Eastern Storm decisively moves into Phase TWO. Events: 1. Two Inf Div storm ashore uner the protection of 3 BBs bombarding and two BBs waiting protectively off shore in case of American response. Landings are GREAT and there is just an American Base Force and Inf Bn present. Base Falls tomorrow. 2. Fast TF of 6 DD load Inf to capture Molokai. This is the LAST American base in Hawaii. Pull the CVLs towards KB to combine strength for the 1st PH Fighter Sweep. It will be bloody! What is everyone's favorite altitude for conducting a Zero Sweep? Curious to see. I have mine and we'll see if it matches others. Engineering (all Bases Sz-1 AF: Lihue 47 up to 57 Kona 24 up to 30 Kona 69 up to 92 (WELL Done!)

Olorin -> RE: February 18, 1942 (6/2/2015 4:42:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John 3rd Combat Report February 18, 1942 What is everyone's favorite altitude for conducting a Zero Sweep? Curious to see. I have mine and we'll see if it matches others. 20.000 feet seems to be working fine this early, even against defenders operating at the same altitude.

John 3rd -> February 19, 1942 (6/2/2015 11:16:53 PM)
Combat Report February 19, 1942 Operation Eastern Storm Lahaina This vital base is captured for only 68 troops! Sz-4 AF now open for use BABY! I have another mine drop of 400 mines scheduled here tomorrow. Bring in 36 Zero and 54 Betty from Midway. Molokai 6 DD in a Fast TF drop off troops against no opposition. Base will be mine tomorrow. AF Construction: Lahaina AF-4 Lihue AF 1 (68) up 11. Kona AF 1 (36) up 6. Hilo AF 2 (12) up 20! Kido Butai All 12 Flight Decks fill the same hex of space: 5 CV, 5 CVL, and 2 CAV rendezvous. All ZEROS are given two days off for R&R and we shall SWEEP PH on 22nd. Manila The sound of 30,000 pairs of boots can be clearly heard in Manila Bay as Southern Army HQ, 14th Army HQ, 16th ID, and 48th ID climb into their transports. All are prepping for Pearl Harbor. DEI Capture Lingga and Pontianak Burma Fast TF land troops of the Imperial Guards at Akyab. There are no defenders! Have a second ID as well as a pair of BF on the way to secure the base and begin pushing up the coast towards Cox's Bizar. HMS Trusty plants a TT into IJN Mogami while it drops off troops at Akyab but this is a STOUT Japanese CVL. SYS/FLOT was seven each... China Changsha Japanese Deliberate Attack gets 1-1 (near 2-1) and drops Forts to 3. All four ID look great so we'll Del Att again tomorrow. Would LOVE this city! Wenchow Several attacks have brought Forts to ZERO. a pair of BBs bombard the base every other night and 50 Sally hit it during the day. [image]local://upfiles/18041/185BA2310C87442AB63E8DB55CE45092.jpg[/image]

John 3rd -> February 20, 1942 (6/3/2015 5:41:49 AM)
Combat Report February 20, 1942 Operation Eastern Storm 1. Transports arrive back at Lahaina and deposit 28,000 supply. They begin loading both Inf Div to bring back to Hilo for R&R and prep for Pearl Harbor. Add 400 mines to Lahaina's MF. 2. ZEROs continue to rest. Have brought down both CVE's ZEROs as well and will SWEEP PH on the 22nd. 3. Refuel KB-1/-2. Fuel is OK. I have large shipments coming that pretty much ends my planned amount of usage. 4. Molokai falls. Midway The 3 CVE, 2 BB, 4 CL, and 12 DDs refuel and head for Adak. Not needed in Hawaii and are needed to cover a landing of the Karafuto Brigade at Akutan to destroy two Allied engineering units present there. This is a spoiling attack to destroy units and keep Michael 'honest' up north. DEI Landings at Singkep and Ketapang. Java Hopefully am about to take Batavia with next assault. Burma Akyab The base falls. I place 80 Oscars at Magwe on 100% LRCAP but only 11 show up over the Invasion Forces when 16 Hurricanes and 24 Vildebreest show up. The Oscars perform quite well but are unable to penetrate the fighter screen. The damned Vildebreest hit five AK with TTs but only one sinks. Move to the two Oscar Sentai to Akyab and set 100% Range-1 CAP. Leave the TF there to serve as bait. We'll see if the CAP-trap works. China Changsha JDA yields a 1-2 that brings the Forts down again by 1 to Lvl-2. Nice. Rest the troops. This event may cause a bit of alarm in the Allied High Command. We'll see what happens. Subs My SS have not been as active as I generally like this campaign due to the needs of Posting a picket line with Hawaii. This will be changing soon. I have recalled all but 8 Glen I-Boats and they are going to rest, refuel, and then head out to raise hell in Alaska and the West Coast. Time to loose the SS! Michael Subs cannot be doing all that great. I have really attempted to place LOTS of bombers anywhere I see SS concentrations and plaster them with massed ASW attacks. It seems that there are 3-4 'SS hit by bomb' messages every day. Japanese TF ASW has been doing OK as well hitting at least 1-2 SS per turn for 3-6 Depth Charges. Not sinking them but sure are damaging a bunch. Economy Haven't really spoken on the economy and research choices. Need to do that soon. Will do so at some time this week.

pws1225 -> RE: February 20, 1942 (6/3/2015 10:55:06 AM)
Hi John - I am enjoying following your exploits in Hawaii. Good luck and banzai!

HansBolter -> RE: Feb 17, 1942 (6/3/2015 11:13:35 AM)
Been to Colorado only once. Spent three days there visiting a wind tunnel testing facility at Fort Collins. On last day I had a free afternoon for sight seeing and everyone I talked to suggested a drive up into the mountains to see Estes Park. The drive up the steep mountain slope with no guardrails overlooking a large lake was white knuckle all the way for me (agrophopbia here). It was early March with snow on the ground in the shadows and I recall driving by a fly fisherman in waders casting in a stream crusted with ice and thought I was driving through a Coors commercial. The awe inspiring 360 degree view of mountaintops in every direction from Estes Park was literally jaw dropping to this flatlander. Absolutely beautiful country! quote: ORIGINAL: John 3rd We're headed off for a couple of days of camping near Estes Park. Michael has the turn so he can doing some extensive planning.

traskott -> RE: Feb 17, 1942 (6/3/2015 12:27:38 PM)
Looks like Hawai will be japanese VERY soon!!!

HansBolter -> RE: Feb 17, 1942 (6/3/2015 1:47:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: traskott Looks like Hawai will be japanese VERY soon!!! Which will of course beg the question: "Will they be sorry they took it two years from now?". An outpost in the middle of nowhere leading nowhere..... Sorry to rain on the parade J3. [8D]

Canoerebel -> RE: Feb 17, 1942 (6/3/2015 1:59:43 PM)
Hawaii is a major plum, at least on the order of New Zealand. It can be much more, though, if John recognizes it's potential. I posted about this at length six or seven days ago. John didn't reply, which means one of two things: (1) he didn't see the post and thus isn't aware of the amazing, wonderful insight offered therein, or (2) I presented my argument in such a way that it was so annoying or offensive that John couldn't even bring himself to reply. :) Hawaii is a magnificent base from which to tormet the Americans and Canadians in the first half of 1942 (and perhaps later). John has the ability to drive Michael absolutely nuts for the next four months or so. The question is: Does John see this?

Insano -> RE: Feb 17, 1942 (6/4/2015 1:35:54 AM)
Let me expand on what the Canoerebel said and direct you to (in this JFB's opinion) the single most significant Allied industrial asset on the map: the Consolidated factories in San Diego. Most of the PBY production is on map. What can you do to hinder production of this aircraft so critical to the Allied war effort?

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