Early Thoughts on Game (Full Version)

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Scarz -> Early Thoughts on Game (4/11/2015 2:22:23 AM)

The game looks to have an interesting premise, and I was immediately interested. I downloaded the game through Steam, and thought I would give it a go.
After an hour or so of play, I felt strongly enough to remember my password, and leave a thread. Now this is all opinion, so please take it that way, I am not trying to slam the game...

Just a quick disclaimer, I guess the game is still in development, so maybe things will be much different when its complete.

A few things that jumped out at me.

1. I didn't feel any real flavor to the tactical game. It didn't feel like my units were anything more than little disks that move around on the map.

2. The different units all seemed very similar. Other than some shoot and others don't. Now there may be more going on under the hood than I saw, but again, the coolness of the different types of units was flat not there.

3. The interface feels very clunky. Through the information overlays, while you can get lots of information, non of it seemed very important.

4. The trade seems haphazard and the inherent "value" of things is hard to determine.

5. I liked the idea of nations have a relationship with one another, but again, there seems to be no relationship between the values and who will declare war on you.

It seems like the game could benefit from a little more work. Some things need to be enhanced, like being able to building buildings and developing your country more than a generic upgrade. The units need to be worked on, right now no real difference between the races, or not enough in my view.




gunnergoz -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game (4/11/2015 8:48:55 PM)

Thanks for the post, you have put your finger on a number of the things I'd like to see attention focused on as the development proceeds.

Game definitely has potential. It has an old school TBS flavor that I like. But it would benefit from telling the player more about where he stands with other empires and races and what the effects of improving or deteriorating relations would be with them.

Trade and resources now a bit clunky and the interface definitely needs to be worked on.

Granted this is an early release, it is in good position to move into a top notch TBS game once it receives more polish and focus.



sanch -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game (4/12/2015 12:54:11 AM)

I've been keeping my eye on this game.

From the early information, it looked like it could be similar to Paradox's EU series, except a fantasy focus instead of a historical focus. And if so, I would get excited. But, from what the OP says, I will probably wait and see.



Scarz -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game (4/12/2015 10:24:26 PM)

I have been waiting for someone to do this type of game, and was very excited about it. Unfortunately, I would suggest you wait and save the money, as its not worth it right now. And unless some big changes are made, it never will be.

If I could tell the developers anything, it would to go look at the old SSI game Dragon Lance, and loot and copy as much as they can. That game is old and dated, but it had a lot more things right than wrong, and this game is far behind and old classic.



lion_of_judah -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game (4/12/2015 11:23:41 PM)

here is a thought, why not have a demo of this game before we pluck down almost 25 dollars in order to see if this is a game worth the money.



balto -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game (4/13/2015 12:35:40 AM)

The first two posts are well stated. Despite that, I really like this. Very unique game and very enjoyable. I also think it is a finished product in that everything works great, there are just some minor enhancements that veteran gamers (such as the people above and myself) like to see.

If you do not have money problems, I would get this now and spend some time with it. You can drink $25 in about 1.5 hours at a bar, this game will give you much more enjoyment than that.



aaatoysandmore -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game (4/13/2015 12:42:14 AM)

The box art looks good. [:'(]



Ranger33 -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game (4/13/2015 1:08:17 AM)

I too was excited for this one, it looks like something I would enjoy. Despite the comments here I see that over on Steam most of the reviews are positive so far. If I didn't have such a backlog of games I would probably pick it up regardless. I'll be keeping my eye on it for sure.



Rosseau -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game (4/13/2015 5:38:09 AM)

Firstly, this game is early access. Secondly, if you don't feel the units are varied enough (I don't agree), then do some simple xml editing and make them whatever your heart's desire. Finally, if someone plays for one hour, these indeed are "early thoughts." I have eight hours in and have barely scratched the surface.

But by all means, everyone can wait until it's finished and see. I am happy laying down my $25 now for a game I can learn, enjoy and mod right out of the box. And yes, if most of the ultra-critical Steam crowd likes it, you have to go with the majority vote.



GrumpyMel -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game (4/13/2015 6:28:07 PM)

I was really looking forward to this one as well, but after purchase I'm rather underwhelmed. It has some promise, but at this point I'd say it's rather weak.

- I felt the tactical game was the most fun aspect of it. However, the A.I. does a very poor job at putting up a fight.

- The realms need a greater variety of units with more differentiation between them.

- The diplomatic model really needs to be fleshed out more and needs to do a better job of driving strategic decisions.

- Even though they were differentiated, the Realms felt a little "blah".

- It would be good to see some "set-piece" scenario's added where it is playing out different historical conflicts (e.g. Civil War & Breakup of the Empire.... "Good Nations vs Evil Nations", "Civilization vs Barbarians" etc.... even better if the map could be varied a bit... at least in terms of who owns what provinces according to that)

- Tactical Combat needs to be fleshed out more.

- Better use of Hero's

- The game seems to be lacking some important metrics to provide players necessary info....such as current upkeep cost of units and current income from provinces.

- Resources could be looked at as well.... cool concept... but most Realms seem to need only a couple types to produce all the troops in their roster. Not as much as a driving strategic factor as it could be.



gwgardner -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game (4/13/2015 8:32:00 PM)

I had an unfavorable impression at first for many of the same reasons as the OP.

After doing the tutorial 'scenario' completely my opinion of the potential for the game was greatly increased. The GUI was 'revealed' to me more, opening up more and more features and possibilities.

I was thinking exactly the same thing about the units - just melee and ranged, basically, with different names for different realms. However, it's in looking at the differing purchase costs, maintenance costs, and any special characteristics for those units that the great variety really jumped out. Each realm has a limited number of unique and elite units.

Example: one realm (I think Iron Barony) has very cheap goblin mercenaries available, and they are available immediately since they're mercenary, but the maintenance is very expensive. So it's impossible to keep an army in the field made up of those mercenaries for more than one or two turns. The player has to really use them wisely.

another example: I think it is the Cloudfels realm that has a relatively inexpensive but very powerful three-headed wolf unit (forgot the name of it), however, it cannot leave it's home province.

Another realm, one inhabited by elven people, has a unique unit that is able to imprison enemy units under certain conditions.

There are many, many nuances to the basic unit types like that.

Another area of the game offering great variety is the realm-specific goals. One that really has me intrigued is the realm Ariselle (sp). It's kind of modeled after Great Britain, in that it is an island realm, has a powerful navy, and diplomatically (when the AI plays it) it can never be allied with the most powerful realm in the world. In fact it will actively oppose the most powerful realm. Another unique realm is one that is only played by the AI, and it's kind of modeled after Switzerland - it's neutral, is the center of a League of Nations type thing, and if attacked by anyone, is immediately defended by all others.



ezzler -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game (4/13/2015 11:43:22 PM)

Enjoying so far - But does need work

he game seems to be lacking some important metrics to provide players necessary info....such as current upkeep cost of units and current income from provinces.

- Resources could be looked at as well.... cool concept... but most Realms seem to need only a couple types to produce all the troops in their roster. Not as much as a driving strategic factor as it could be.

Yes - agree.

Suddenly, without warning, the money runs out. That is a problem. Its unit costs that are doing it.
Resources. Played one race and could not get the strategic resources needed. Played another and they are right there to be taken.

Very fiddly on the resources screen - you need to know much more.
1. clicking on a resource tells you who has the most of them - but not how far away - what they want in return - how friendly they are towards your empire . All this is multiple clicks and multiple screens - Needs to be integrated.
Also the screen - iron Lords are unlikely to accept your offer - Why not? A bit more feedback. is it they don't have the resoursce available? Is it they hate our guts? is it more money wanted? What?

The diplomatic map isn't very helpful. Was on one side of my empire - scrolled over to the other side and realised I had been declared war on - {this pop up never came up - or if it did it was in a tiny window and no "trumpets and drums announcement."}
The Dragonlords had taken 5 provinces with single units. - Without any warning - Grrr - i was in a life and death on other side of the empire.
And it takes a 'really really' long time to get provinces back and rebuild conquered ones.

Would suggest defensive units - militia barracks Outpost city wall - fort - castle - to at least slow the enemy up and cause a battle so you realise the danger.- cheap cost militia or expensive, but once built minor upkeep castles or something.

Can you build forts? It seems not.

the on map borders should be different colours - Hard to see which empire controls what after a few turns of conquest.Or a shaded overlay? i

Also - in an endless war , which a large empire has, the number of rebels is impossible to deal with. Can maintain 2.5 - 3.5 armies in field - against 2-3 enemies. But that means No gold to build up captured provinces - so they rebel and cause big problems with their 20 unit armies.

makes for a very long slog.

Still - its interesting so far.



Zap -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game (4/14/2015 12:20:50 AM)

Thank you all for sharing your insights. It is important for a focused buyer as myself. My requisites are
for a satisfying experience with the game having reached its potential. looks like I will follow and wait to see how this develops
Because the game has not made it.



Rosseau -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game (4/14/2015 1:36:20 AM)

Ezz, I think the home provinces come with "fort-like" defensive squares on the tactical map. I have not built any though.

Also, you can hit the second button down (I think) next to the mini-map to display each country in specific colors.

Part of my fanboy-like enthusiasm probably came from using Cheat Engine for unlimited money within the game [:-]

Anyway, Lordz is a pretty good studio (pardon the pun), and I would be surprised if they weren't reading what the OP, Ezz, GrumpyMel and others have to say about their game. For $25, I'm pretty comfortable with it, but it's not complete yet.



ezzler -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game (4/14/2015 11:41:41 AM)

I would say its ok to go now.
Nothing is broken with it. And I've only played 6-10 hours or so. With only two factions. Others might be easier. There are a lot of them and all are varied.

I would have no problem saying to someone buy in early access. There is easily a complete game already.



ezzler -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game (4/14/2015 11:42:42 AM)

That second button down doesn't show you when an invasion has occurred. Only changes colour once the province is lost. Which is too late.



GrumpyMel -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game (4/14/2015 4:32:34 PM)

It's in a state that I pretty much would expect for an early access game. It's not broken. It's fully playable and it can provide some fun in a beer and pretzels kinda way. I don't regret my purchase. Price wise, I feel $25 was reasonable for what it delivered. I only played a few hours, but that's only because I'm kinda engrossed in another game right now... and I fully expect this game to get much better down the road as they update it, it moves out of Early Access and maybe gets some DLC, I don't really want to get burned out on this system before that happens.

Right now it could use more content. A review of the units and realms for play balance, playability, fun factor. More scenarios. Some additional functionality to enhance user experience and A.I. tweaks to provide more challenging play. Essentially all those are areas that I'd expect any early access game would need to improve on. So don't take my previous comments as being overly harsh. Essentially it's really high expectations meets reality ;)

Right now, I'd say buy it, if you want to get some familiarty with the game and want to save on the price you'd pay for full release. I'd expect some relatively small changes... which is pretty likely the Dev's will do.... will end up making a much better/funner game experience.





Rosseau -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game (4/14/2015 11:08:03 PM)

I misunderstood what you wanted out of the buttons. Yes, information is hard to come by in some areas of the game, diplo and trade, etc. However, as Matrix/Slitherine's first EA game, I am betting they will do the right thing the first time and build trust with non-Matrix gamers.

Should be fun to see what the patches will bring.



lion_of_judah -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game (4/15/2015 4:10:32 PM)

Question: will there be a demo so those of us who are wary, can try this game out first instead of wasting 25 bucks on a dud.



Rosseau -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game (4/16/2015 12:09:52 AM)

My guess would be after it is released there is a demo.

My video-card fan blows up a storm only with this game. The devs said they'd be looking to improve performance. So right now, I am holding off playing, as don't want to possibly fry my card, if such a thing is possible on a low spec game like this one.



bavarian kid -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game 1.2 beta (4/16/2015 11:02:19 AM)

quote:

My video-card fan blows up a storm only with this game.

Same issue here. Video-card fan (2GB AMD Radeon HD 7870) reaches alarming levels in tactical combat screen. Please fix this issue.



Ostwindflak -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game 1.2 beta (4/16/2015 2:18:24 PM)

Your best bet would be to post your issues over at the Slitherine forum. That forum is very active for this game and most of the game's devs respond back.



bavarian kid -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game 1.2 beta (4/16/2015 6:44:38 PM)

quote:

Your best bet would be to post your issues over at the Slitherine forum.


Already did that [;)] . But thanks for the tip anyway.



Breca -> RE: Early Thoughts on Game 1.2 beta (4/20/2015 12:11:40 PM)

Thanks for all your feedback. The first big update will be a conversion of the game to OpenGL. This is an infrastructure update aimed at streamlining the code base and should make a updates and bug fixes easier down the road. A side benefit of the conversion is performance improvements. The game does run hotter than it should, and this should help quite a bit.

Once the OpenGL is in, we have been compiling a LONG list of bugs, UI requests, AI requests and feature requests and will hit those hard. Many great reports and ideas have been coming out of the community in the last 10 days and we're thrilled to have so much constructive involvement and collaboration with the players of Sovereignty. We're just getting started. :)

Good Hunting!

Breca



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