RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (Full Version)

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Rio Bravo -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/11/2015 3:44:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BattleMoose

In my last game I found New Caledonia to not be tenable. I was able to put an obscene amount of AV on Fiji so that was never under threat. (And there wasn't any indication of pushes onto India or Aus.) With hindsight, I should have developed one of the dot bases next to Noumea, Isle of Pines, being a dot base, with a CD unit and some AV and mines, could be made too unpleasant to seize and a fantastic air base for when you are ready to recapture New Caledonia, should you lose it.


Welcome to The War College, BattleMoose-

It is difficult to predict with a fair amount of accuracy where Emperor El Lobo will strike and how far El Lobo will attempt to expand his empire. Accordingly, for now, at least the first 6 to 12 months, I plan to build from the outside inwards.

I do view New Caledonia as a tough place to attempt to build and hold during the first year or so. I will keep Isle of the Pines in mind. However, opportunity might present New Caledonia as an option. That will no doubt depend on how far El Lobo wishes to expand his empire.

Thank you for your comments. I appreciate your help.

Regards,

-Terry



Rio Bravo -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/12/2015 7:36:35 AM)

December 8, 1941


Kota Bharu falls!

Cagayan is invaded!

Fighting continues in San Fernando!

Enemy task force catches troops trying to escape Hong Kong:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Hong Kong at 75,61, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Chokai
DD Fubuki
DD Usugumo
DD Sagiri

Allied Ships
xAKL Chengtu, Shell hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Joan Moller, Shell hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Kanchow, Shell hits 5, and is sunk
xAKL Soochow, Shell hits 5, heavy fires
xAKL Yat Shing, Shell hits 2
xAKL Halldor, Shell hits 10, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
262 casualties reported
Squads: 14 destroyed, 13 disabled
Non Combat: 19 destroyed, 20 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 28 (15 destroyed, 13 disabled)

Enemy ships catch MTBs trying to escape from Hong Kong:

Day Time Surface Combat, near Iba at 75,70, Range 20,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Yugumo
DD Hokaze

Allied Ships
MTB 7
MTB 8, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
MTB 9
MTB 10
MTB 11
MTB 12
MTB 26
MTB 27, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

The Houston gets a little payback for the loss of the Boisie:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Dinagat at 82,87, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Suzukaze, Shell hits 1, on fire
xAKL Kakyu Maru, Shell hits 2, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CA Houston

Japanese ground losses:
289 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 13 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 4 (2 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Enemy air raid sinks HDMLs:

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Bengkalis at 48,82

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 22
D3A1 Val x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 6 damaged

Allied Ships
HDML Panji, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
HDML Panglima, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
HDML Pennigat, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
HDML Pahalwan, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000' *
Naval Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000' *
Naval Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 10000' *
Naval Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb

All in all a quiet day...What is El Lobo up too!?!?!?






BattleMoose -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/12/2015 7:42:30 AM)

Good job, I have very fond memories of CA Houston, it sunk the Ryujo in my game. :)



Rio Bravo -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/12/2015 7:56:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BattleMoose

Good job, I have very fond memories of CA Houston, it sunk the Ryujo in my game. :)


Now that is a trick, BattleMoose. I hope you gave those Houston boys a raise in pay for that one!



Rio Bravo -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/15/2015 6:38:20 PM)

December 8, 1941


Interesting Developments

The Intelligence Report advises that the Japanese have sunk 28 Allied ships as follows:

1 CL, 3 DD, 1 AVP, 8 xAK, 9 xAKL, 2 MTB, and 4 HDML.

Whereas, the Allies have sunk only two Japanese subs (1 SSX and 1 SS).

Remnants of the 1st Middlesex Bn. are on one xAKL and still fleeing from Hong Kong along with the Kowloon Bde.; 102nd RN BF; the Winnipeg Grenadiers Bn.; and the Rifles of Canada Bn. It is a long way to India for these troops!

Several U.S. West Coast supply and fuel convoys are out of harbors and heading for Sydney and Melbourne (approximately 200K each).

The good news is that the POW, Repulse, Danae, and 3 DDs appear to be escaping and are one hex West of Batavia. The Houston is 7 hexes directly West of Babeldaod.

The bad news is that I have no idea where the KB is lurking. This is a deep concern to the Allies considering so far the Evil Empire has only invaded Kota Bharu; Vigan; San Fernando; and Cayagan. Rest assured, El Lobo is up to something nasty!



obvert -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/15/2015 10:35:42 PM)

There are so many poor TF compositions, bad destinations set, and weird air group placements and settings that it can take a few days to get things in order for Japan. It's actually not so important to start with a bang, but much better to be organized and know your priorities. Don't worry, he'll be coming for you soon. [:D]



Mike McCreery -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/16/2015 12:59:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

December 8, 1941


Interesting Developments

The Intelligence Report advises that the Japanese have sunk 28 Allied ships as follows:

1 CL, 3 DD, 1 AVP, 8 xAK, 9 xAKL, 2 MTB, and 4 HDML.

Whereas, the Allies have sunk only two Japanese subs (1 SSX and 1 SS).

Remnants of the 1st Middlesex Bn. are on one xAKL and still fleeing from Hong Kong along with the Kowloon Bde.; 102nd RN BF; the Winnipeg Grenadiers Bn.; and the Rifles of Canada Bn. It is a long way to India for these troops!

Several U.S. West Coast supply and fuel convoys are out of harbors and heading for Sydney and Melbourne (approximately 200K each).

The good news is that the POW, Repulse, Danae, and 3 DDs appear to be escaping and are one hex West of Batavia. The Houston is 7 hexes directly West of Babeldaod.

The bad news is that I have no idea where the KB is lurking. This is a deep concern to the Allies considering so far the Evil Empire has only invaded Kota Bharu; Vigan; San Fernando; and Cayagan. Rest assured, El Lobo is up to something nasty!



I suck at sub warfare. It is September 1942 in my game and I have sunk less than 50 Japanese ships. No matter, I can catch up later ;]



BattleMoose -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/16/2015 5:13:06 AM)

I found that using two CVEs and a few DDs, specifically for ASW. The planes train for ASW and when a sub is spotted, send of a few DDs as a ASW TF. Worked an absolute treat, subs didn't last long where that small task force was at.



Rio Bravo -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/16/2015 8:13:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

There are so many poor TF compositions, bad destinations set, and weird air group placements and settings that it can take a few days to get things in order for Japan. It's actually not so important to start with a bang, but much better to be organized and know your priorities. Don't worry, he'll be coming for you soon. [:D]


That is what I am hoping and using El Lobo's unorganized time to steam off to safer locals.

And yes, I suspect El Lobo has something big planned and that it will pop up pretty soon.



Rio Bravo -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/16/2015 8:16:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

December 8, 1941


Interesting Developments

The Intelligence Report advises that the Japanese have sunk 28 Allied ships as follows:

1 CL, 3 DD, 1 AVP, 8 xAK, 9 xAKL, 2 MTB, and 4 HDML.

Whereas, the Allies have sunk only two Japanese subs (1 SSX and 1 SS).

Remnants of the 1st Middlesex Bn. are on one xAKL and still fleeing from Hong Kong along with the Kowloon Bde.; 102nd RN BF; the Winnipeg Grenadiers Bn.; and the Rifles of Canada Bn. It is a long way to India for these troops!

Several U.S. West Coast supply and fuel convoys are out of harbors and heading for Sydney and Melbourne (approximately 200K each).

The good news is that the POW, Repulse, Danae, and 3 DDs appear to be escaping and are one hex West of Batavia. The Houston is 7 hexes directly West of Babeldaod.

The bad news is that I have no idea where the KB is lurking. This is a deep concern to the Allies considering so far the Evil Empire has only invaded Kota Bharu; Vigan; San Fernando; and Cayagan. Rest assured, El Lobo is up to something nasty!



I suck at sub warfare. It is September 1942 in my game and I have sunk less than 50 Japanese ships. No matter, I can catch up later ;]


I don't expect to sink many of his ships for ages. And, I don't expect to take out many of his troops either. I hope I can at least shoot down some of his aircraft, even if he gets the better of that deal for a few months too.



Rio Bravo -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/16/2015 8:19:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BattleMoose

I found that using two CVEs and a few DDs, specifically for ASW. The planes train for ASW and when a sub is spotted, send of a few DDs as a ASW TF. Worked an absolute treat, subs didn't last long where that small task force was at.


Good advice, Battlemoose. I think I will make pilot ASW training a top priority for now. I think I will try to make a dent in his subs with YPs and similar boats. Want to keep my carriers safe...hidden...and save my DDs for now. That is if I can keep my aggressive stylee in check. *laughing*



Rio Bravo -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/18/2015 2:51:53 AM)

December 9, 1941


Received Combat Report from EL Lobo for December 9, 1941.

Heavy fighting continues at San Fernando and Cagayan.

Japanese destroyers sink the remaining MTBs attempting to escape from Hong Kong:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Clark Field at 77,76, Range 9,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Natsugumo
DD Minegumo
DD Asagumo

Allied Ships
MTB 7, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
MTB 9, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
MTB 10, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
MTB 11, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
MTB 12, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
MTB 26, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

Near Lahaina, Japanese sub SS I-4 heavily damages AO Neosho.

Near Pearl, Japanese sub SS I-2 puts a torpedo into the BB Pennsylvania (not
seriously damaged).

Note: On December 9, 1941, Upon spotting the KB East of Mersing, 8 Allied Task Forces consisting of BBs, CAs, CLs, and DDs left Pearl for Seattle. The Japanese sub caught the Pennsylvania.

DD Cummings, DMS Perry, DD Shaw, and DD Conyngham hit Japanese sub SS I-2 twice.

I will submit a supplemental December 9, 1941 After Action Report upon receiving Turn 3 back from El Lobo.

Regards,

-Terry




Rio Bravo -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/20/2015 9:09:33 PM)

December 9, 1941


Received turn 4 from El Lobo.

Not too much to add for December 9, 1941 events.

1 CV and 1 BB are 3 hexes directly East of Manila.

2 CVLs, 3 CVs, 3 CAs, and 2 CLs are 4 hexes directly East of Mersing (KB?).

Question for The War College


Should PPs be paid to change headquarters for U.S. Marines to I Amphibious Corps or just pay PPs to change Headquarters to Pacific Fleet?

In other words, would the Marines fight more effectively if their Headquarters was I Amphibious Corps?

Regards,

-Terry



BBfanboy -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/20/2015 11:20:43 PM)

You can get multiple bonuses if both HQs are in range (9 hexes for PacOceanAreas, 1 for 1st Amphib Corps). If you use PacOceanAreas the corps HQ bonus is not available to you and you are more likely to be in combat near the Corps HQ than near PacOceanAreas.



Mike McCreery -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/21/2015 1:11:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

December 9, 1941


Received turn 4 from El Lobo.

Not too much to add for December 9, 1941 events.

1 CV and 1 BB are 3 hexes directly East of Manila.

2 CVLs, 3 CVs, 3 CAs, and 2 CLs are 4 hexes directly East of Mersing (KB?).

Question for The War College


Should PPs be paid to change headquarters for U.S. Marines to I Amphibious Corps or just pay PPs to change Headquarters to Pacific Fleet?

In other words, would the Marines fight more effectively if their Headquarters was I Amphibious Corps?

Regards,

-Terry


A unit's headquarters has no bearing on the attack bonus. The attack bonus is only concerned with HQ's that are prepped for attacking the base.


So, no.



BBfanboy -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/21/2015 2:37:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

December 9, 1941


Received turn 4 from El Lobo.

Not too much to add for December 9, 1941 events.

1 CV and 1 BB are 3 hexes directly East of Manila.

2 CVLs, 3 CVs, 3 CAs, and 2 CLs are 4 hexes directly East of Mersing (KB?).

Question for The War College


Should PPs be paid to change headquarters for U.S. Marines to I Amphibious Corps or just pay PPs to change Headquarters to Pacific Fleet?

In other words, would the Marines fight more effectively if their Headquarters was I Amphibious Corps?

Regards,

-Terry


A unit's headquarters has no bearing on the attack bonus. The attack bonus is only concerned with HQ's that are prepped for attacking the base.


So, no.

But aren't the odds better if the Unit HQ is prepped and in range, as opposed to other HQs?



witpqs -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/21/2015 2:40:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

December 9, 1941


Received turn 4 from El Lobo.

Not too much to add for December 9, 1941 events.

1 CV and 1 BB are 3 hexes directly East of Manila.

2 CVLs, 3 CVs, 3 CAs, and 2 CLs are 4 hexes directly East of Mersing (KB?).

Question for The War College


Should PPs be paid to change headquarters for U.S. Marines to I Amphibious Corps or just pay PPs to change Headquarters to Pacific Fleet?

In other words, would the Marines fight more effectively if their Headquarters was I Amphibious Corps?

Regards,

-Terry


A unit's headquarters has no bearing on the attack bonus. The attack bonus is only concerned with HQ's that are prepped for attacking the base.


So, no.

But aren't the odds better if the Unit HQ is prepped and in range, as opposed to other HQs?

Not that I know of.



Mike McCreery -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/21/2015 2:43:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

December 9, 1941


Received turn 4 from El Lobo.

Not too much to add for December 9, 1941 events.

1 CV and 1 BB are 3 hexes directly East of Manila.

2 CVLs, 3 CVs, 3 CAs, and 2 CLs are 4 hexes directly East of Mersing (KB?).

Question for The War College


Should PPs be paid to change headquarters for U.S. Marines to I Amphibious Corps or just pay PPs to change Headquarters to Pacific Fleet?

In other words, would the Marines fight more effectively if their Headquarters was I Amphibious Corps?

Regards,

-Terry


A unit's headquarters has no bearing on the attack bonus. The attack bonus is only concerned with HQ's that are prepped for attacking the base.


So, no.

But aren't the odds better if the Unit HQ is prepped and in range, as opposed to other HQs?


It is my understanding from what I have read and understand that the land based HQ system was meant to be much more than what it was but due to budget and time constraints it ended up on the cutting room floor.

So, the only considerations are.

1. How much the unit is prepped for the base.

2. How much command and combat HQ's are prepped within range (and we know this is complicated)

However, it would not make any difference if a unit was attached to a HQ that was prepped or it was not attached to the same prepped HQ.





BBfanboy -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/21/2015 4:34:43 AM)

Thanks for setting the record straight Wargamr and witpqs. Sometimes I think I understand more than I do about this game! I appreciate the learning moments when they come. [:)]



Rio Bravo -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/21/2015 8:32:27 PM)

Wargmr & BBfanboy-

Thank you for the response.

That's a relief, I wasn't looking forward to spending PPs for Pacific Fleet Marines to change their Headquarters to I Amphibious Corps.

Regards,

-Terry



Rio Bravo -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/21/2015 8:33:43 PM)

Witpqs-

Welcome to The War College!

Regards,

-Terry



Rio Bravo -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/21/2015 8:55:42 PM)

December 10, 1941


Received Combat Report from El Lobo for December 10, 1941.

San Fernando falls!

Heavy fighting continues at Cayagan.

Japanese pick off more transports loaded with Canadians and British troops fleeing from Hong Kong:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Iba at 75,73, Range 10,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Natsugumo
DD Minegumo
DD Asagumo

Allied Ships
xAKL Yat Shing, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
175 casualties reported
Squads: 12 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 8 (6 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Night Time Surface Combat, near Iba at 75,73, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Natsugumo
DD Minegumo
DD Asagumo

Allied Ships
xAK Hinsang, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Munlock, Shell hits 13, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
1185 casualties reported
Squads: 46 destroyed, 22 disabled
Non Combat: 44 destroyed, 38 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 12 (12 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 12 (10 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Japanese warships sink xAKLs near Tawi Tawi:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Tawi Tawi at 72,90, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Maya
CA Ashigara
CL Natori
CL Kuma
DD Yamagumo
DD Satsuki
DD Minazuki
DD Fumizuki
DD Nagatsuki
DD Asakaze

Allied Ships
xAKL Dos Hermanos, Shell hits 14, and is sunk
xAKL Elcano, Shell hits 12, and is sunk
xAKL Escalante R, Shell hits 36, and is sunk
xAKL Sarangami, Shell hits 6, and is sunk
xAKL Taurus, Shell hits 19, and is sunk

Japanese sub cooks xAKL near Eureka. Northern California citizens panic and flee inland!:

Submarine attack near Eureka at 214,67

Japanese Ships
SS I-26

Allied Ships
xAKL Susana, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Japanese DMS sink AMs near Palembang, but pay a heavy price for so doing:

Day Time Surface Combat, near Palembang at 48,91, Range 15,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DMS W-1, Shell hits 2
DMS W-5, Shell hits 3
DMS W-6, Shell hits 11, heavy fires, heavy damage
DMS W-9, Shell hits 5, heavy fires
DMS W-10, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DMS W-11, Shell hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied Ships
DD Vampire, Shell hits 1
DD Vendetta, Shell hits 1
AM Ballarat, Shell hits 17, and is sunk
AM Toowoomba, Shell hits 12, and is sunk

Japanese aircraft sink HDMLs and MLs near Palembang:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Palembang at 48,91

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D3A1 Val x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
HDML 1063, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
HDML 1062, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
ML No. 310, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
ML No. 311, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

End Note

The evil Empire is beginning to piss me off!

*laughing*

Regards,

-Terry



Rio Bravo -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/23/2015 12:30:38 PM)

Supplemental Report


for


December 10, 1941


War College Cabinet Members-

I was pleasantly dreaming of being in a hot tub with the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders when I was rudely awakened by a most discouraging phone call from FDR. I took notes, but was a little sleepy and anxious to get back to a cold Coors, warm bubbles, and those cheerleaders. So, perhaps my rendition of FDR's hollering in my ear might not be completely accurate as follows:

1.) The Evil Empire has sunk 49 Allied ships: 1 CL; 3 DDs; 1 AVP; 2 AMs; 8 MTBs, 2 MLs; 6 HDMLs; 1xAP; 9 xAKs; and 16 xAKLs.

2.) The Red Sun has destroyed 69 Allied aircraft.

3.) China is being bombed heavily and 20 Japanese ground units have landed at Hong Kong.

4.) The following Japanese Carrier Task Forces have spotted:

-Four hexes due East of Singkep: 1 CVE; 4 CV; 4 BB; and 1 CL.
-Three hexes due East of Djambi: 3 CV; 2 CA; 1 BB; and 3 CL.
-Nine hexes due East of Singapore: 3 CVL and 1 CL.
-At Lingga: 4 CV.

5.) And most distressful, Emperor El Lobo has adamantly refused to surrender on the Arizona heading to Seattle!

*pouring a scotch on the rocks and giving the Mares in my dream a few winks*

A Few Thoughts on China

I have suspected from the outset that Emperor El Lobo wants all of China and will assign sufficient Japanese assets to get the job done. I believe the heavy bombing in China and the landing of 20 ground units at Hong Kong is evidentiary of the Evil Empire's intent to conquer China.

Three options come readily to mind:

1.) Pack up the wagons and get as many Chinese as possible through Burma and into India.

2.) Fight a wise and slow retreat to hold Chung King as long as possible thereby tying up Japanese troops and aircraft as long as possible.

3.) Take a huge gamble: Order a massive offensive to take a high Northern route and break through into Manchuko to encourage the Russians to join the fight.

Personally, I don't like any of those options for the following reasons:

1.) Wagons are slow and every Chinese unit fleeing China makes it that much easier and faster for the Japanese to conquer China and free up troops to slaughter the Allies elsewhere.

2.) The Chinese will simply be over-run, the hoped for slow withdrawal will no doubt turn into being a rout, and within a few months all the Chinese will be dead.

3.) The Chinese will no doubt never make it to Manchuko and the attempt would no doubt speed up the collapse of defensive positions and speed up the complete loss of China.

Comments, suggestions, punt the football and concentrate more on the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders?

Regards,

-Terry



BBfanboy -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/23/2015 3:35:33 PM)

Given that your naval search has spotted more CVs than the Japanese have, take the reports with a large grain of salt. It is common for AOs to be mistaken for CVs when the searchers have poor Nav Search skill (< 50).

In China, don't bother with option 3. The Chinese are foot-mobile while the Japanese have armour and troop carrying vehicles - they can out maneuver you in most terrain. Mountains and wooded/rough or jungle/rough slow up the Japanese more than the Chinese so you have a chance to fight there. As a bonus that type of terrain provides some shelter from the constant bombing.

Head most of your forces to the hills and have them block routes to Chunking. Having a river between you and the enemy is helpful because they must shock attack when crossing and since they are charging in the open you have a chance to inflict severe casualties. Otherwise, the Chinese lack the heavy weapons and experience to attack the well equipped and trained IJA. Unless you have an AV advantage of about 10 to 1, do not attack - block in good defensive terrain and let him attack you. When units get decimated, send them back from the front lines to recuperate and bring up new ones. Numbers are the only Chinese advantage.

When you start to get some Chinese units with 50+ experience and 80+ morale, consider giving them the best leaders your PP can afford.

Select a few units to move immediately to India to fill out their TOE, train and help in India/Burma while working their way back to China. I use the ones that can be made unrestricted because there is the potential to buy them out and move them by ship to wherever needed. To find these units, click the red flag button at the top of the screen, then click the "All Nations" to de-select all the units listed. Next, click on the "China" hypertext and look for the few units (about 12) that have HQs in white or grey text (I forget which is used in this list). Note where they are located. Get them moving now if you want to get them out before the Burma road closes. Use the DC-2 transports to get them to Kunming or the two bases further up Burma road if you can (but this uses supply).



Rio Bravo -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/24/2015 12:11:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Given that your naval search has spotted more CVs than the Japanese have, take the reports with a large grain of salt. It is common for AOs to be mistaken for CVs when the searchers have poor Nav Search skill (< 50).

In China, don't bother with option 3. The Chinese are foot-mobile while the Japanese have armour and troop carrying vehicles - they can out maneuver you in most terrain. Mountains and wooded/rough or jungle/rough slow up the Japanese more than the Chinese so you have a chance to fight there. As a bonus that type of terrain provides some shelter from the constant bombing.

Head most of your forces to the hills and have them block routes to Chunking. Having a river between you and the enemy is helpful because they must shock attack when crossing and since they are charging in the open you have a chance to inflict severe casualties. Otherwise, the Chinese lack the heavy weapons and experience to attack the well equipped and trained IJA. Unless you have an AV advantage of about 10 to 1, do not attack - block in good defensive terrain and let him attack you. When units get decimated, send them back from the front lines to recuperate and bring up new ones. Numbers are the only Chinese advantage.

When you start to get some Chinese units with 50+ experience and 80+ morale, consider giving them the best leaders your PP can afford.

Select a few units to move immediately to India to fill out their TOE, train and help in India/Burma while working their way back to China. I use the ones that can be made unrestricted because there is the potential to buy them out and move them by ship to wherever needed. To find these units, click the red flag button at the top of the screen, then click the "All Nations" to de-select all the units listed. Next, click on the "China" hypertext and look for the few units (about 12) that have HQs in white or grey text (I forget which is used in this list). Note where they are located. Get them moving now if you want to get them out before the Burma road closes. Use the DC-2 transports to get them to Kunming or the two bases further up Burma road if you can (but this uses supply).



BBfanboy-

Thank you for your response and I appreciate your advice.

Imperial Japanese Carriers

*deep sigh of relief* Thought for a few hours there that Scenario 2 let the Japanese build a ****load of carriers. Downside now is that I can't be sure where his carriers are. Dangit!

Option 3...The Big Gamble (Chinese Advance Toward Manchuko)

I lean 90% toward your opinion of canceling a Chinese march toward Manchuko. Besides the Chinese wagons going slow and the Japanese armor most likely recovering quick enough to block the path to Manchuko (even if surprised), supply alone would no doubt stop the march cold, stop any chance of offensive operations on the road to Manchuko, and diminish any Chinese defense for the troops left behind.

In other words, way too much risk for a likely result of no benefit and China falling faster than El Lobo's wildest expectations.

Chinese Exit to Burma and Beyond

I have not made up my mind to order Chinese troops to sprint (*laughing*) to Burma, through Burma, and into India. Having rested, refitted, and supplied Chinese would definitely help to defend India and aid a later offensive action to take Burma back. And, El Lobo would be denied substantial Victory Points (not that either of us care much about the Victory Points other than to sort of keep track on how each is fairing as the war progresses).

The downside is that China might fall quicker than if all the Chinese troops stayed behind to fight until death.

Chinese Slow Retreat Toward Chungking

I am leaning toward leaving all Chinese in China to hold his troops and aircraft in China as long as possible.

I am thinking on conserving what little supply the Chinese have by never attacking; just defending, as many of you have advised, in good terrain (mountains and woods, and as you mentioned behind rivers).

I would dearly enjoy finding a way to get tons of supply; the II U.S. Fighter Squadrons; the V U.S. Bomber Squadrons; and five American Army Divisions with tanks and support into China to give the Japanese some bloody noses. Perhaps, holding Chung King until substantial reenforcements arrive to kick El Lobo's ass completely out of China. I lay awake at nights running various ideas through my mind and always I come up with the same answer: "No that won't work. Too early in the War for that to work." Double Dangit!

End Note

Jump in here Allied War College Members!



Rio Bravo -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/24/2015 2:56:55 AM)

Combat Report


for


December 11, 1941


Hong Kong Falls:

Japanese ground losses:
219 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 18 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Allied ground losses:
3531 casualties reported
Squads: 70 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 315 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 21 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 131 (131 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 60 (60 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 2

Assaulting units:
20th Ind. Engineer Regiment
68th Ind.Infantry Battalion
38th Division
19th Ind. Engineer Regiment
67th Ind.Infantry Battalion
1st Ind.Inf.Group
66th Infantry Regiment
20th RGC Division
21st Mortar Battalion
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
2nd RF Gun Battalion
1st JAAF AF Coy
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion
2nd Mortar Battalion
47th JAAF AF Bn
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
5th RF Gun Battalion
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
23rd Army
2nd JAAF AF Coy

Defending units:
Kowloon Brigade
Hong Kong Fortress

Heavy Fighting Continues at Cayagan:

Japanese ground losses:
435 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 19 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled

Allied ground losses:
255 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 37 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled

Assaulting units:
Miura Det
Kimura Det
146th Infantry Regiment
Kure 1st SNLF
1st JNAF Coy
2nd JNAF Coy
1st Naval Construction Battalion

Defending units:
3rd PA Constabulary Regiment
Cagayan USAAF Base Force
Mindanao Force Corps

Japanese Initiate Deliberate Attack Near Taiyuan:

Japanese ground losses:
607 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 50 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled

Allied ground losses:
1770 casualties reported
Squads: 132 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 106 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 21 (21 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 2

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
37th Division
41st Division
4th Ind.Mixed Brigade
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
33rd Chinese Corps
7th Group Army

Japanese Escalate Amphibious Landings:

At Guam, Palembang, and Singkawang.

Japanese Destroy the Balance of Canadian & British Troops Fleeing from Hong Kong:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Balabac at 71,82, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Maya
CA Ashigara
CL Natori
CL Kuma
DD Yamagumo
DD Satsuki
DD Minazuki
DD Fumizuki
DD Nagatsuki
DD Asakaze

Allied Ships
xAK Fatshan, Shell hits 9, and is sunk
xAK Hanyang, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
948 casualties reported
Squads: 93 destroyed, 36 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 19 (19 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Night Time Surface Combat, near Balabac at 71,82, Range 7,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Maya
CA Ashigara
CL Natori
CL Kuma
DD Yamagumo
DD Satsuki
DD Minazuki
DD Fumizuki
DD Nagatsuki
DD Asakaze

Allied Ships
xAK Bennevis, Shell hits 36, and is sunk
xAK Ming Sang, Shell hits 15, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
795 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 61 destroyed, 65 disabled
Engineers: 13 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 24 (17 destroyed, 7 disabled)
Vehicles lost 6 (6 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Night Time Surface Combat, near Balabac at 71,82, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Maya
CA Ashigara
CL Natori
CL Kuma
DD Yamagumo
DD Satsuki
DD Minazuki
DD Fumizuki
DD Nagatsuki
DD Asakaze

Allied Ships
xAK Nanning, Shell hits 11, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Haraldsvang, Shell hits 7, and is sunk
xAK Hai Lee, Shell hits 14, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
1170 casualties reported
Squads: 51 destroyed, 53 disabled
Non Combat: 66 destroyed, 58 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 13 (11 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Vehicles lost 16 (14 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Japanese Sub SS I-2 Puts Two Torpedoes into CL Helena Near Pearl Harbor:

Sub attack near Pearl Harbor at 189,89

Japanese Ships
SS I-2

Allied Ships
CL Helena, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage
DMS Zane
DD MacDonough
DD Dewey
DD Farragut

DD Vampire Goes on Rampage Near Palembang:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Palembang at 49,90, Range 7,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DMS W-1, Shell hits 3, on fire
DMS W-5, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DMS W-9, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
DMS W-10, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
DMS W-11, Shell hits 5, and is sunk

Allied Ships
DD Vampire, Shell hits 1

SS Snapper Cripples DD Namikaze Near Daito Shoto:

ASW attack near Daito Shoto at 94,76

Japanese Ships
DD Namikaze, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
DD Numakaze

Allied Ships
SS Snapper

Allied Ships
DD Vampire, Shell hits 1

End Note

Japanese Bombings and Fighting in China Becomes Intense!

Regards,

-Terry






BBfanboy -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/24/2015 4:36:57 AM)

The movement of a few corps to India would not aversely affect the situation in defending China. The biggest problem in China is the lack of supply. With several corps removed, there will be more to go around to the others and they will be able to recover disabled squads and fight better. That's the way I see it anyway. Would like to see others chime in on their experience with this move.



Rio Bravo -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/24/2015 7:29:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

The movement of a few corps to India would not aversely affect the situation in defending China. The biggest problem in China is the lack of supply. With several corps removed, there will be more to go around to the others and they will be able to recover disabled squads and fight better. That's the way I see it anyway. Would like to see others chime in on their experience with this move.



BBfanboy-

Darnit!

I have been so conscious of the fact that China has a substantial supply problem. But, it didn't even occur to me that moving out a few Chinese troops would leave more supply for those remaining behind.

I should have already had those boys marching to India. I will immediately commence heading them out on the 12th.

Thanx for the good advice.

Regards,

-Terry



Rio Bravo -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/25/2015 2:49:45 AM)

Combat Report


for


December 12, 1941


Cayagan Falls!

Singkawang Falls!

Palembang Falls!

Guam Falls!

Japanese Make Amphibious Landing at Hex 81,76:

Amphibious Assault at 81,76

TF 107 troops unloading over beach at 81,76

Japanese ground losses:
108 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)

19 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad lost overboard during unload of 9th Infantry Rgt
19 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad lost in surf during unload of 9th Infantry Rgt
10 Support troops lost from landing craft during unload of 9th Infantry Rgt
20 troops of a IJA HMG Squad lost overboard during unload of 9th Infantry Rgt /2
10cm T91 Howitzer lost in surf during unload of 20th Infantry Rgt
10cm T91 Howitzer lost overboard during unload of 20th Infantry Rgt
10 Support troops accidentally lost during unload of 20th Infantry Rgt
19 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad lost overboard during unload of 20th Infantry Rgt
10 Support troops accidentally lost during unload of 20th Infantry Rgt
10 Support troops lost in surf during unload of 20th Infantry Rgt
10 Support troops accidentally lost during unload of 20th Infantry Rgt
10 Support troops lost from landing craft during unload of 9th Infantry Rgt /5
10 Support troops lost from landing craft during unload of 9th Infantry Rgt /3

Allied Guns Light Up AK Tosan Maru Near Palembang:

Invasion Support action off Palembang (48,91)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

2 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
AK Hirokawa Maru
AK Tosan Maru, on fire

75mm CD Gun Battery engaging AK Hirokawa Maru at 14,000 yards

Allied DD Dents Japanese Sub Near Pearl Harbor:

ASW attack near Pearl Harbor at 191,85

Japanese Ships
SS I-2, hits 1

Allied Ships
DD Dewey
DD Farragut

Japanese Sub Cripples Allied ACM Obstructor Near San Francisco:

Submarine attack near San Francisco at 216,70

Japanese Ships
SS I-26

Allied Ships
ACM Obstructor, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

ACM Obstructor is sighted by SS I-26
SS I-26 launches 2 torpedoes

End Note

El Lobo and his lovely Thai wife are going to be visiting Bangkok for a few days. El Lobo will return on Thursday (May 28th). Accordingly, all Allied units will stand down at the Silver Dolar Saloon!

Regards,

-Terry



obvert -> RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) (5/25/2015 10:19:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

The movement of a few corps to India would not aversely affect the situation in defending China. The biggest problem in China is the lack of supply. With several corps removed, there will be more to go around to the others and they will be able to recover disabled squads and fight better. That's the way I see it anyway. Would like to see others chime in on their experience with this move.



BBfanboy-

Darnit!

I have been so conscious of the fact that China has a substantial supply problem. But, it didn't even occur to me that moving out a few Chinese troops would leave more supply for those remaining behind.

I should have already had those boys marching to India. I will immediately commence heading them out on the 12th.

Thanx for the good advice.

Regards,

-Terry



Also, make sure you turn off replacements for all units, turn off any repairs for industry, and turn off replacements for air units as well. Don't build too many forts with your bases. Only in very critical spots. Don't expand airfields. Try to get as much supply in before the Burma road closes (an extra 500 a day supply while the path from Rangoon to Paoshan and Kunming is open).



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