RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (Full Version)

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adarbrauner -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/14/2016 1:07:27 PM)

Seems good, from here.



adarbrauner -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/14/2016 1:15:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

I have a RTA Div on the road in the hex west of CM. Should they be on the other side?




I think we should not worry. For a while. unless he does a paradrop. Case in which you may be provided wit an excellent occasion to kill off one of his para regts [:'(].[:'(][:)]



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/15/2016 9:07:26 AM)

CHINA Mar 3, 1943 Turn 452

Not quite what I wanted but at least the forts are "0." The loss of 2200 AV hurts though.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chengtu (75,41)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 134639 troops, 1625 guns, 966 vehicles, Assault Value = 4253

Defending force 100334 troops, 125 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2993

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 1776

Allied adjusted defense: 5691

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 3 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
28445 casualties reported
Squads: 284 destroyed, 2577 disabled
Non Combat: 9 destroyed, 201 disabled
Engineers: 13 destroyed, 254 disabled
Guns lost 200 (7 destroyed, 193 disabled)
Vehicles lost 50 (1 destroyed, 49 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
3477 casualties reported
Squads: 20 destroyed, 333 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 113 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled



adarbrauner -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/15/2016 10:56:19 AM)

Not only the loss of AV , but that of 28500 casualties!...

Waht the He** happened there!

This was a tough day,not a good one.

The questions are two, what do we learn from this/why has that happened, and what do we do now.

Were the responsibles the tough urban environment?

What was the part of enemy units proficiency in this? Should we persevere in attacking, stalingrad type, or to keep them bombarded and starving for a while more?

And over all, how do we recover from such losses? How's the health of manpower/armamants/replacemetns pool? what the health of the other units in the theatre and their recovery rate?

This may help in assessing the general situation.



Andav -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/15/2016 1:42:15 PM)


Make sure you bomb the airfield or something so they can't rebuild the forts. I do not see a supply(-) so it is possible they could build if it is not damaged. I would use bombers to ground attack each day to kill supply and disrupt the defenders. Fly at 6k so any AA will shot at you and burn supplies plus your results will be better as well. Then I would do some armor only attacks. If you have more armor in the area, get them there soon. The good news is the 2500 disabled will come back eventually. His probably will not.

Looking back at the screen shot of this area, you have 3 units sitting in hexes NW, NE and due East (at least when looking at the map) of Chunking. You control these hex sides so depending on AV, you might be able to use these as a reserve. They do not need to sit here (unless it is a personal thing which I completely understand).

Personally, I would concentrate on the city to the West of Chunking first. It has paved roads which you can use to shuffle forces between Chengtu or Chunking to recover. Getting those disabled units to a city to rest they will recover much quicker then in the front lines.

How is supply on your side?

What HQs do you have supporting this attack? Making sure you have the HQ multipliers at least as a possibility will help attacks. It sucks to see Leaders(+) for the Chinese.

And if you have divisions which are heavily disabled, split them and they will each have a chance to recover. Just make sure you put them back together before the next attack.

Wa



adarbrauner -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/15/2016 2:35:06 PM)

All points of Andav agreed upon, chinese leaders(+) included.( I just don't think they really can restore the fortificatons in the time span remained to them and under the constraits of the situation. And if lofty Supreme Commander Rio Bravo shall opt for it, all the better, waste of materials).


apart for one maybe: why, andoAv, are you suggesting to send tanks in urban environment? not a terrible and overly excessive waist?


And just one more question, why do you think that flying below 6k feet should not prompt all kind of AA fire against?



HansBolter -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/15/2016 2:44:32 PM)

With the level of disablements you are not going to be able to attack again for a very long time.
Likely, at least two to three weeks.
During that recovery period you need to be bombing and bombarding every day.
This causes the defenders to use supply and keeps their morale low and their disruption high.

You didn't have enough raw AV to get odds to begin with, so you definitely want to bring in reinforcements.
You may want to rotate out some of your most disabled units to increase their recovery rate.
IIRC the hex is light urban which is doubling or tripling for the defender, can't remember which.
You need 6k-9k AV to get odds on it if you don't manage to reduce it heavily first.
Its going to be a long siege and will come down to exhausting the defenders supply.

Your adjusted AV was low compared to your staring AV.
Were your troops heavily fatigued or disrupted?
These two factors are extremely important to monitor daily during sieges to determine when you can be ready to try an attack.



Andav -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/15/2016 3:18:45 PM)

You are confusing the game with reality. In RL, it would be a bad idea to use massed armor only attacks in dense urban terrain. They would be easily defeated in most cases. In the AE virtual reality, tanks in urban terrain (or dense jungle in Burma for the Allies) are just fine especially if the defending units have little to no AT (really anti-hard) capabilities. The Chinese fall into this category. For the Allies, you have to separate the Chinese from everyone else. They just do not get the abilities of any other Allied nationality until very late in the war. They have almost zero AT or AA. Because they are almost always out of supplies, they are usually short on raw assault strength as well. Throw in crappy leaders and they are easy for the IJA to roll over.

When I was assaulting Chunking (you can see witpqs' Rumble in the Southwest AAR for the Allied prospective), my typical assault was day about a 10 day cycle. Every day, there were ground attacks by bombers. When I was ready to attack, I used two days of armor only attacks supported by artillery. Then infantry attacks with the armor included which was not too highly disrupted. To me, the armor only attacks were kinda slimy and I am not sure I would use this approach again since it deviates from reality so far. On the other hand, we play a basically no HR game so I have seen Allied stacks in Burma which were basically armor only running all around the jungles causing me grief. In RL, it would have been very difficult to keep these tanks rolling. It is a goose and gander thing.

For airstrikes in China, you are looking to get shot at so it will burn supplies. Chinese AA is pretty weak to begin with so Helens and Sallies can take the punishment. You might lose one or two and have some damaged but it is an acceptable loss. I often flew at 1000 feet to prompt Infantry to shoot at me as well. Strafing with an armored, low SR fighter works also especially if they carry a 250kg bomb. Because they are armored they might damage but are rarely shot down outright. In China, it is all about getting the Chinese to burn as much supply as possible. Airstrikes are an excellent way to achieve this goal. While Artillery does the same thing, it also build the Chinese experience so I tended to not bombard every day.

Wa

EDIT: More stupid spelling errors and such.



witpqs -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/15/2016 5:41:03 PM)

Just to give you an idea, here are the anti-soft and anti-hard values for some Allied squads along with availability dates. The Chinese squads never get much in the way of anti-armor weapons in squads, plus they also don't get many AT guns or artillery.

[image]local://upfiles/14248/97D7EA7325D040499450C9D11536FF14.jpg[/image]



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/16/2016 12:16:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andav

While Artillery does the same thing, it also build the Chinese experience so I tended to not bombard ...




+1




el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/16/2016 2:39:23 AM)

Thank you all for your participation.

Hi adarbrauner.

If you look back through my AAR you will see that this is the common pattern for most of my DAs. Look at my previous assaults here and at Chungking, my comments re the Fighting Forth, and how three Allied units have held-off four Divisions west of Paoshan.

What I have learned is that it is apparently not unusual but is was a bit of a shock the first few times it happened. I think other players were surprised that I was surprised. When you stop to think about it, attacking forts in an urban environment with the AV ratios that I had, the results are not unrealistic. If I recall correctly from my brief military carrier long ago, commanders considered a six to one ratio for attacks as a necessary requirement for possible success. Again the Devs have proven themselves excellent modelers. If you look at today's assault south of Ramree it shows just this formula, six to one adjusted to one to one.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 54,49 (near Prome)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 40299 troops, 425 guns, 264 vehicles, Assault Value = 1478

Defending force 11781 troops, 111 guns, 284 vehicles, Assault Value = 223

Japanese adjusted assault: 601

Allied adjusted defense: 487

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1

What I am doing is learning to deal with it. We will wait three to four weeks while bombing his airfield and when my AV reaches an amount to be determined, we will DA again, (this time with complete success). [:)] My supplies are good here. I don't bombard on a regular basis any more but I will do some recon bombardment.

But here is the question I have, will the same be true when the Allies DA me? I am hoping it will be. I am also hoping that the shock attack at Lashio, which was a worse disaster for him than this one was for me percentage-wise, will be indicative of what is to come.

Right now I am trying to keep a ratio of one to one as a minimum as he enters my bases, more, much more, if I can afford it. Pax has pointed-out that the Allies get stronger as the year progress so I will adjust my ratio accordingly. And not forgetting that we need to secure the key jungle hexes east and south of Burma.

The good news, I think it is good, maybe not, is that Rio sees these kind of results and, as he puts it, "cringes" at the thought of DAing. You will note that I have made fun of Rio on his lack of DAs.

Don't you think that we should force Rio to have to make at least one DA before I hand-over the keys to Burma? * laughing *

PS, sorry to be so late with my answer, but nothing happening in the Pacific, about which I know..



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/16/2016 2:56:08 AM)

Hi Andav,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andav
Make sure you bomb the airfield or something so they can't rebuild the forts. I do not see a supply(-) so it is possible they could build if it is not damaged. I would use bombers to ground attack each day to kill supply and disrupt the defenders. Fly at 6k so any AA will shot at you and burn supplies plus your results will be better as well. Then I would do some armor only attacks. If you have more armor in the area, get them there soon. The good news is the 2500 disabled will come back eventually. His probably will not.

I don't do a lot of cut and paste from CRs as it is a lot of "same 'o', same 'o,' so it is hard for you to know what I am doing on a regular, day to day, basis. (I will gladly do so if anybody wants.)

I am bombing both Chengtu and Chungking daily, about half ground and half airfield adjusting to keep airfield about five to fifteen damaged. I am bombing at 2000 feet with no flak and light damage to my a/c.

I only have one Arm Div at Chentu but I have two Arm Rgmts on the way, two weeks out. To be honest, I am reluctant to go against what is probably around 2500 enemy AV with 500 Arm AV but I will give it a go if you say I will not get slaughtered and it will do more good than harm (to me).

quote:

Looking back at the screen shot of this area, you have 3 units sitting in hexes NW, NE and due East (at least when looking at the map) of Chunking. You control these hex sides so depending on AV, you might be able to use these as a reserve. They do not need to sit here (unless it is a personal thing which I completely understand).

Rio is a SRB. (Sneaky Rat B***ard. One of the perks of playing this game with an old friend is that you can say things like this and it will not get interpreted wrong. We call each other this, and worse, to each other's "face" all the time in emails.) I never know when he will pop out at a hex so I am keeping these units here to maintain ZOC. For the most part they are small units, some of them recovering. I do have three IDs slowly maneuvering into the hex to the west so they do not have to cross the river.

quote:

Personally, I would concentrate on the city to the West of Chunking first. It has paved roads which you can use to shuffle forces between Chengtu or Chunking to recover. Getting those disabled units to a city to rest they will recover much quicker then in the front lines.

How is supply on your side?

Working on it. I have Arm and Art there but no Infantry yet.

Supply is good. I have never had a supply problem in China. It come is spits and spurts but I seem to always have a day or two each week that all my units are in the white. The units at Chengtu are all white today. Of course there are not as many of them as there were before, so it is easier now. * laughing *

quote:

What HQs do you have supporting this attack? Making sure you have the HQ multipliers at least as a possibility will help attacks. It sucks to see Leaders(+) for the Chinese.

In Chengtu I have two Corps and one Army HQ. In Chungking I have seven Corps, one Army, and one Command HQ.

quote:

And if you have divisions which are heavily disabled, split them and they will each have a chance to recover. Just make sure you put them back together before the next attack.

Thanks for the reminder, I am always forgetting that. Of to do it right now.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/16/2016 2:58:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Your adjusted AV was low compared to your staring AV.
Were your troops heavily fatigued or disrupted?
These two factors are extremely important to monitor daily during sieges to determine when you can be ready to try an attack.

Greetings Hans and welcome to the Dark Side.

Thank you for your comments, they will always be welcome.

This is a good question and in fact, I did not check so I can not give you an answer. Looking at my units at Chungking, they are all in the two and three range for both. I can not make the assumption that Chengtu was the same. I will be sure to check in the future. Thanks for the great tip.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/16/2016 3:00:56 AM)

witpqs

People like you, Pax, (Mike S.) who have (had) this kind of information at your finger-tips, and, understand it, drive me a little crazy with envy.

I am working on understanding this stuff so thanks for the information and the boost.



adarbrauner -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/16/2016 6:37:21 AM)

-



adarbrauner -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/16/2016 6:39:14 AM)



quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo



Don't you think that we should force Rio to have to make at least one DA before I hand-over the keys to Burma? * laughing *




Changing again the (retreating) plan?

Why?

Isn't it underway already???

And, P.S.: you're not giving away it all; you're going to hold the bushy matdoor





adarbrauner -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/16/2016 7:14:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGNAL: El Lobo

Rio is a SRB. (Sneaky Rat B***ard


Obtained through international Press at neutral ports, of course:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo
Commander Haggard's AM crinkled a sneaky, low-down, rat-bastard El Lobo submarine near King Island.



Like it.



HansBolter -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/16/2016 11:00:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andav

While Artillery does the same thing, it also build the Chinese experience so I tended to not bombard ...




+1





My experience indicates a unit will plateau at 59 experience from bombardment alone.
The AI tends to bombard daily forever in hexes it doesn't have the strength to attack in.
My Chinese units never go over 59 experience from this no matter how long it goes on.
Units seem to have to participate in an assault to gain xp above 59.

Foregoing the opportunity to cause the enemy to use supply, lose morale and increase disruption to avoid giving him experience is counterproductive.



HansBolter -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/16/2016 11:06:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Your adjusted AV was low compared to your staring AV.
Were your troops heavily fatigued or disrupted?
These two factors are extremely important to monitor daily during sieges to determine when you can be ready to try an attack.

Greetings Hans and welcome to the Dark Side.

Thank you for your comments, they will always be welcome.

This is a good question and in fact, I did not check so I can not give you an answer. Looking at my units at Chungking, they are all in the two and three range for both. I can not make the assumption that Chengtu was the same. I will be sure to check in the future. Thanks for the great tip.


In the interface that list all of the LCUs in a hex, in the upper right corner there is yellow text that reads either "show hard" or " show soft" depending on how you have it toggled.
Click on this text to show the non-default view and you get a new listing of different data two columns of which are fatigue and disruption.
This is a great way to assess the ready status of your troops beyond the simple measure of abled and disabled squads.



Andav -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/16/2016 1:58:43 PM)

quote:

I don't do a lot of cut and paste from CRs as it is a lot of "same 'o', same 'o,' so it is hard for you to know what I am doing on a regular, day to day, basis. (I will gladly do so if anybody wants.)


I am good. [:D] In fact, the lack of endless Combat Reports is one of the reasons why I read this AAR!

You are seeing one of the many reasons why I am screwed in my game against witpqs. It is Money Ball for AE ... Or is it Intel Monkey Ball ...

Wa



witpqs -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/16/2016 4:07:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

witpqs

People like you, Pax, (Mike S.) who have (had) this kind of information at your finger-tips, and, understand it, drive me a little crazy with envy.

I am working on understanding this stuff so thanks for the information and the boost.

If you run Tracker it will be at your fingertips, too!

There is a devices tab. In addition to showing the pools of the devices, it shows their stats. Most important among the stats for infantry squads is anti-soft and anti-hard. I just made a few screen pics and cobbled them together.

You learn how the capabilities of your squads change with upgrades during the course of a campaign game.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/17/2016 12:19:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

Changing again the (retreating) plan?

Why?

Isn't it underway already???


adar, a time for a little clarification.

Are you talking about the plan I presented in post 713, "BURMA Mar 1, 1943 Turn 450?"

If so, it has not changed and is underway.

I did not call it a "retreating" plan as it may be actually advancing on the enemy at some point. But it will hopefully set some of the groundwork for retreat in the future.

When I say "retreat," here I am using it in the context of packing-up and moving out of bases,

Does this make sense?



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/17/2016 12:21:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

Like it.

* laughing *

Commander Haggard is a SRB also. And you can tell him I said so, through neutral ports of course.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/17/2016 12:28:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

In the interface that list all of the LCUs in a hex, in the upper right corner there is yellow text that reads either "show hard" or " show soft" depending on how you have it toggled.
Click on this text to show the non-default view and you get a new listing of different data two columns of which are fatigue and disruption.
This is a great way to assess the ready status of your troops beyond the simple measure of abled and disabled squads.

Interesting Hans.

Note, there is only one TOE number shown.

So, while we are on the topic of TOE, can you or anyone else explain the TOE numbers in the upper left of the Unit Information Screen, (xx/yy) under the unit's number and name? I know the higher, the better, but the explanation in the Manual makes no sense to me.

"The 90/100 indicates the total number of non-disabled (ready) and disabled elements as a percentage of the units TO&E."

As I read this, it says that the unit is 90% ready and 100% disabled.

This may be another example of where I am mentally placing the coma in the wrong place.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/17/2016 12:32:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

If you run Tracker it will be at your fingertips, too!

Yeah withqs, I do run Tracker but that tab is in one of the deep-dark corners of the program in which you need a flash-light, read, understanding. I'll keep peaking in there, I know that I must, and maybe someday I will find the light switch. I think that the real problem is that it doesn't look like any fun to me.

One of the things that scares me is that it is a damn long list. How did they ever run a war before computers?

Thanks again.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/17/2016 1:59:40 AM)

BURMA Mar 5, 1943 Turn 454

I have a love, hate relationship with massive Allied bombing runs.

I love the fact that my fighters get a chance to shot them down and gain experience.
I hate that they just keep coming and coming.

This morning we had thirteen waves and one wave this afternoon at Lashio. I had CAP the first four morning waves and the afternoon wave, including one Jack, which got no kills on its maiden run.

I hate it when they do a lot of damage.
But I love it when they get results like today. Airfield damage = 0, Supply hits = 0, Casualties = 0.

[image]local://upfiles/45493/FB68D2FC157F4C6B8E6A055CB8C03F0A.jpg[/image]



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/17/2016 3:27:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andav

While Artillery does the same thing, it also build the Chinese experience so I tended to not bombard ...




+1





My experience indicates a unit will plateau at 59 experience from bombardment alone.
The AI tends to bombard daily forever in hexes it doesn't have the strength to attack in.
My Chinese units never go over 59 experience from this no matter how long it goes on.
Units seem to have to participate in an assault to gain xp above 59.

Foregoing the opportunity to cause the enemy to use supply, lose morale and increase disruption to avoid giving him experience is counterproductive.

And so taking them from 30 to 59 EXP is exactly what I avoid doing. 30 EXP CHI troops are easy to kill ... 59 is essentially my troops EXP level ... I don't want fair fights, I want routes!

[:D][:D][:D]



HansBolter -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/17/2016 11:06:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

In the interface that list all of the LCUs in a hex, in the upper right corner there is yellow text that reads either "show hard" or " show soft" depending on how you have it toggled.
Click on this text to show the non-default view and you get a new listing of different data two columns of which are fatigue and disruption.
This is a great way to assess the ready status of your troops beyond the simple measure of abled and disabled squads.

Interesting Hans.

Note, there is only one TOE number shown.

So, while we are on the topic of TOE, can you or anyone else explain the TOE numbers in the upper left of the Unit Information Screen, (xx/yy) under the unit's number and name? I know the higher, the better, but the explanation in the Manual makes no sense to me.

"The 90/100 indicates the total number of non-disabled (ready) and disabled elements as a percentage of the units TO&E."

As I read this, it says that the unit is 90% ready and 100% disabled.

This may be another example of where I am mentally placing the coma in the wrong place.


The second number means the unit is at 100% of its TOE strength.
The first number is the percentage of abled TOE strength.
The unit is 90% abled.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/18/2016 12:12:48 AM)

Thanks Hans.

BURMA Mar 6, 1943 Turn 455

Rio assaulted Lashio again with waves of bombers and their escorts. Thirteen in the morning again, none in the afternoon.

My CAP held-up better this time lasting eight waves but still no joy for the Jack.

His results were much better with seventeen casualties.

I have been sweeping a base or two of his every day but have had little luck in finding his escorts. When I do find some they are gone the next day. Whack a Warhawk.

[image]local://upfiles/45493/D48E8B5AE1974D6081129638895F2CD2.jpg[/image]



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (12/18/2016 10:53:50 AM)


MISSING AIR GROUP QUESTION

I lost an air group. I had a Rufe unit and a Jake unit on my LSDs on the 15th of Feb. I transferred them to a base.

One of those late-night moves and shortly after I Ended Orders I realized that I forgot to put the LSDs into a TF before the transfer. So that means they go through the process of being crated-up, etc. and arrive damaged.

The next turn the Jakes did indeed arrive damaged but the Rufes have not shown anywhere, they are gone, from the game and Tracker. They were not scheduled to withdraw.

Is there any way I can track them or find where they went?

TIA



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