RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (Full Version)

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Ratzki -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/19/2015 9:38:44 PM)

Great list of armor! what does the infantry list look lik? will we get Russian SMG squads, recon squads ect?

When is the beta testing likely to start?

Thanks for answering all our questions. We are like a bunch of little kids with our noses preessed up against a toy store window.



Michael T -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/19/2015 9:39:35 PM)

Does the game have 2nd Level buildings?
Hinderances to LOS?



Peter Fisla -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/19/2015 10:02:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T
Does the game have 2nd Level buildings?


No

quote:


Hinderances to LOS?


Yes



Peter Fisla -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/19/2015 10:28:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ratzki

Great list of armor! what does the infantry list look lik? will we get Russian SMG squads, recon squads ect?

When is the beta testing likely to start?

Thanks for answering all our questions. We are like a bunch of little kids with our noses preessed up against a toy store window.


Here is the list of Squads/Half-Squads in the game:

German: Waffen SS (Elite), Assault Engineers (Elite), Fallschirmjäger (Elite), 1st Line, 2nd Line and Conscripts.

Russian: Assault Engineers (Elite), Guards SMG (Elite), 1st Line, 1st Line SMG and Conscripts

American: Airborne (Elite), Elite, 1st Line, 2nd Line and Green

British: Airborne (Elite), Elite, 1st Line, 2nd Line and Green


List of support weapons in the game:

Name: Light Machine Gun (LMG)
Nationality: German, Russian, British
Rate of Fire: Low
Usage: Squad, Half-Squad, Crew
Leader can help to direct fire: Yes

Name: Medium Machine Gun (MMG)
Nationality: German, Russian, American, British
Rate of Fire: Medium
Usage: Squad, Half-Squad, Crew
Leader can help to direct fire: Yes

Name: Heavy Machine Gun (HMG)
Nationality: German, Russian, British
Rate of Fire: High
Usage: Squad, Half-Squad, Crew
Leader can help to direct fire: Yes

Name: Heavy Machine Gun (HMG)
Nationality: American
Rate of Fire: High (M1917), High (.50 cal)
Usage: Squad, Half-Squad, Crew
Leader can help to direct fire: Yes

Name: Demolition Charge (DC)
Nationality: German, Russian, American, British
Rate of Fire: N/A
Usage: Squad, Half-Squad, Crew
Leader can help to direct fire: No

Name: Flame Thrower (FT)
Nationality: German, Russian, American, British
Rate of Fire: N/A
Usage: Squad, Half-Squad, Crew
Leader can help to direct fire: No

Name: Panzerschreck (PSK)
Nationality: German
Rate of Fire: N/A
Usage: Squad, Half-Squad, Crew
Leader can help to direct fire: No

Name: Panzerfaust (PF)
Nationality: German
Rate of Fire: N/A
Usage: Squad, Half-Squad, Crew
Leader can help to direct fire: No

Name: Anti-Tank Rifle (ATR)
Nationality: German, Russian, American, British
Rate of Fire: N/A
Usage: Squad, Half-Squad, Crew
Leader can help to direct fire: Yes

Name: Light Mortar
Nationality: German, Russian
Rate of Fire: High (50mm)
Usage: Squad, Half-Squad, Crew
Leader can help to direct fire: Yes

Name: Light Mortar
Nationality: American
Rate of Fire: Medium (M2), High (M19)
Usage: Squad, Half-Squad, Crew
Leader can help to direct fire: Yes

Name: Light Mortar
Nationality: British
Rate of Fire: Low (51mm Airborne), Medium (51mm)
Usage: Squad, Half-Squad, Crew
Leader can help to direct fire: Yes

Name: Bazooka
Nationality: American
Rate of Fire: N/A
Usage: Squad, Half-Squad, Crew
Leader can help to direct fire: No

Name: PIAT
Nationality: British
Rate of Fire: N/A
Usage: Squad, Half-Squad, Crew
Leader can help to direct fire: No

Name: Molotov Projector
Nationality: Russian
Rate of Fire: N/A
Usage: Crew
Leader can help to direct fire: No

Name: Radio
Nationality: German, Russian, American, British
Rate of Fire: N/A
Usage: Leader



Michael T -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/19/2015 10:28:46 PM)

No multi-level buildings? Is that just too hard to code or some other reason?

I am an active ASL player, so naturally I am interested. I would need to know a lot more about how your combat model for INF V INF and Tank V Tank works before offering help with a beta. But you have plenty of offers already.

I am seeking, like a lot of others I suspect, Virtual ASL.

How will a human v human game work?

I liked how HoS did this, via a server. It was ok. But the game itself was a big dissapointment.

Good Luck. Looking forward to some more detailed info as you progress.




wodin -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/20/2015 10:43:42 AM)

Lack of multi level buildings is a shame. Very few seem to do it sadly. I'm sill waiting for a tactical wargame to do City fighting well. Saying that this is a Slitherine\Matrix release I'm truly looking forward too. For me here hasn't been a new release that's taken my fancy here for a long time. Finding out Peter has been involved testing a game I work on has given me alot of confidence. Can't wait to see how it develops.



e_barkmann -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/20/2015 11:28:19 AM)

Any game that can simulate isolation penalties by blocking escape routes for units caught in higher level stories gets my vote :-)

Ultimately though it's a minor point, just get us the high def graphics, gratuitous sound effects and multiplayer options and we'll grumble a little less. To start with. j/k lol

cheers



Hexagon -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/20/2015 12:06:22 PM)

Well, i dont see the lack of multilevel buildings a great problem... i see more important the ability to stack units from diferent nations in same hex (assaults are not allways overun defender or send them out of position, you can have fights for the small area a lot of turns/minutes) and offer diferent "vision range" for diferent buildings (churchs that usually have towers, apartaments blocks, individual houses....).

Talking about nations... game can deal with battles where a side has troops from diferent nations/nation special units???? (USA+UK VS SS+FJ for example).

Thanks for the list but something i find strange is the use of ROF as value to diference between diferent unit types... specially in MGs, because ROF is the same or even some LMGs had better ROF than medium MGs and sure better ROF than HMGs... i think you can rename it for firepower to show how LMGs need reserve more ammo because have more limited supply, well, i dont know how works the ammo area here, if is like in SP with a numeric value or is something abstract (same with morale).

PD: block units on top levels of a building??? nothing that a good training cant solve [:D]

[image]http://25.media.tumblr.com/66bd6ff001ec7e89af51b61b418f6824/tumblr_mn4kf9nFS01spyazbo1_400.gif[/image]



Firebri -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/20/2015 5:34:14 PM)

Any news on some screenshots ?



zakblood -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/20/2015 5:37:15 PM)

yes, they will be coming when they are ready it seems[:D][;)]



Firebri -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/20/2015 5:40:01 PM)

Ok, I'll wait until they are on. Then I might put my hand up to be a beta tester.



zakblood -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/20/2015 5:45:16 PM)

put your name in hat now, or it will be so far down you may get asked after the next one has come out tbh not this one, seems a few have by reading this thread and seeing how it's grown so far



Firebri -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/20/2015 5:51:19 PM)

It's ok, I'll let the serious wargamers do their bit. I'm just a casual player.



zakblood -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/20/2015 5:54:15 PM)

all opinions matter, i test more than i play so all comments and feedback are welcome from everyone



Firebri -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/20/2015 6:12:40 PM)

Is it possible to post you tube vids within posts ? I've got a nice one for the devs. If they don't post any screenshots.



Firebri -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/20/2015 6:24:39 PM)

I'll make it easy for you, people. Go onto You Tube and look up " Blackadder Firing Squad " then view, " We're your firing squad"
It's just over two mins long. Just a bit of Brit light humour.



zakblood -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/20/2015 6:31:49 PM)

humours good, as we brits aren't known for it, and Blackadder is one of the best, same as Monty python etc



Hexagon -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/20/2015 6:36:48 PM)

Na, testing is in part an art and a luck question... i remember was in a beta and find a bug that devs were searching a lot of time but never be capable of reproduce it... and i suffer the bug 2 times in a day [8|]

As Napoleon said... Don't bring me good Betatesters- bring me Lucky ones [:D]



wodin -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/21/2015 4:16:18 AM)

How are casualties worked out? I'm surprised you've gone for abstracted units rather than actual counting individual soldiers. Does this mean i goes full squad..if hit becomes half squad and if hit again destroyed? I always think developers should sue the power of the computer and leave behind the mechanics from boardgames that have to be that way due to it being a boardgame i.e abstracted soldier count.

I'm still very interested in the game.



Hexagon -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/21/2015 12:11:58 PM)

For me in tactical games i think the same as Wodin... tactical with no soldiers one by one is strange, even more when in 2015 i expect see squads in soldiers with individual weapons like in CC... but well i asume this is excesive for big tactical ala SP.

In the end everybody has his own preferences but if game is good you can jump over them... i think in Flashpoint, i dont like how they model the infantry but apart this is a great game.



z1812 -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/21/2015 1:55:02 PM)

I am quite happy to hear about what appears to be a serious war game being developed.

In a game items are always abstracted and impressionistic. It depends very much upon the degree that this happens. Like Hexagon, I know if the mix comes together, and feels right to war gamers, then that is what matters.

I would like as much fidelity as possible, and multi story buildings and single soldier counts are very important when a single unit is as small as a half squad.

I believe leaving out PBEM is a mistake. It is a feature many war gamers look for.

Without PBEM and with no random battle generator available I wonder about re-playability.

This is a game I want to support and I wish the developer much success.



Peter Fisla -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/21/2015 2:13:44 PM)

I'm a wargamer at heart and part of this community for many years; just like you guys. One day in early 2006; I have decided to work on something that I wanted to play. My game design was was inspired by Panzer 2nd edition board game as well as ASL and few pc games like Steel Panthers and Close Combat series. I have been working on this for about 9 years now in my spare time and between jobs. I'm a one man team (besides scenario designer and external graphics designer), once I believed I have something in my hands I have decided to share it with the rest of the world. I understand that i won't be able to please everyone, it's just not possible to please everyone. However what I was looking in my design was a system that is fun to play and has a strong narrative aspect. I put my heart and soul into this project, and after the release I will continue to support it for many years to come.



zakblood -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/21/2015 2:15:19 PM)

well no man can ask more than heart and soul, so i'm up for it and will give it a try either way thanks for the work done so far anyway[;)]



KEYSTONE0795 -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/21/2015 2:22:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

I'm a wargamer at heart and part of this community for many years; just like you guys. One day in early 2006; I have decided to work on something that I wanted to play. My game design was was inspired by Panzer 2nd edition board game as well as ASL and few pc games like Steel Panthers and Close Combat series. I have been working on this for about 9 years now in my spare time and between jobs. I'm a one man team (besides scenario designer and external graphics designer), once I believed I have something in my hands I have decided to share it with the rest of the world. I understand that i won't be able to please everyone, it's just not possible to please everyone. However what I was looking in my design was a system that is fun to play and has a strong narrative aspect. I put my heart and soul into this project, and after the release I will continue to support it for many years to come.


I for one think the slightly larger scale (and thus a slightly higher level of abstraction) of the Panzer 2nd edition board game would make a challenging and exciting pc game. I'm not looking for the (in my opinion) false realism of a game where every weapon is represented.



Richie61 -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/21/2015 2:59:59 PM)

I am very accepting of abstraction/simulated squads & half squads. Most of my favorite squad level board games were/ are this type and I LOVE playing them!

Squad Leader as a kid had it. Squad Leader went to hell after "Cross of Iron" IMHO [:(]
quote:

There are no partial casualties to either men or vehicles. Squads are considered to be at full strength until destroyed, and vehicles suffer no damage aside from weapons malfunctions or immobilizations; partial penetrations, panicked crews, and other battlefield phenomena are ignored in Squad Leader. (However, the concept of the "half squad" was introduced in Crescendo of Doom, though not as a battlefield result, and further developed with the introduction of special half squad counters in GI: Anvil of Victory).


Valor & Victory has it.
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/28452/valor-victory?
quote:

1.11 Squad. The squad is the basic infantry fi ghting unit. A squad
counter has two fi gures on it, and represents 8 to 12 men.
1.12 Half Squad. A half squad counter has one fi gure on it, and
represents 2 to 5 men.
1.13 Leader. A leader counter represents a single man. A leader
counter has one fi gure on it, and a leadership modifi er in the
upper left corner of the counter. A leader counter will sometimes
be used to represent a hero, but only when indicated by a
scenario.


Lock 'n Load: Band of Heroes has it. (Heroes of Stalingrad PC game too) [:)]

Even the soon to be released board game: "Old School Tactical" has it.
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/170669/old-school-tactical

Thus I am excited [sm=happy0005.gif]to see a new squad sized tactical level PC war-game! [&o]







jack54 -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/21/2015 3:05:23 PM)

I just dragged 'PANZER second edition' out of the closet ... yes I am very excited... Good luck Peter!



GJK -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/21/2015 3:08:43 PM)

Without speaking for Peter, based on what I know of what he was working on several years ago, the game is heavily influenced by ASL (or was at that time). He's likely added/changed/removed certain things unique to ASL but the point being is that if you're familiar with how ASL works/plays, then I think you can get a good idea of how this one will be (while not being an ASL clone without proper licensing).

ASL/LnL/Panzer et al are games, not simulators. Other computer simulations with 3d sprites and a database full of TO&E may be a better fit if you're looking for every bean, bullet and bandage to be counted.



Richie61 -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/21/2015 3:42:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GJK
ASL/LnL/Panzer et al are games, not simulators. Other computer simulations with 3d sprites and a database full of TO&E may be a better fit if you're looking for every bean, bullet and bandage to be counted.


THIS [:D]



Firebri -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/21/2015 6:32:58 PM)

In the past I have played SPWAW and SPMBT so I look forward to this game very much.



Hexagon -> RE: Tigers on the Hunt needs true wargamers for beta! (5/21/2015 7:32:22 PM)

Dont understand me bad, i am not a "show me details details details" taliban... BUT i allways find that show number of soldiers specially in tactical games help a lot to made less extreme the damage system for infantry and add more proper way to show weapons with crews (at tactical level you dont need destroy a tank to neutralize it, simple kill the guys that use weapons) apart that is easier understand the effect of fire/damage over your units... a better way to scale how powerfull is the unit you see.

I prefer have this areas less abstract even when i dont have problems in abstract IF i can "understand" it well and use it in the game.

For me this is an old discussion in tactical games i find usually that guys that start in table games deal better with abstract system but saddly i start in PC not with table games at least wargames hehehe.

PD: SP is not a simulator but offer squads by number of soldiers with a simplified way to show squad firepower by diferent weapons combinations.



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