RE: Chungking falls! (Full Version)

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Lokasenna -> RE: Chungking falls! (2/19/2017 11:14:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Can the HQ and support units attack? I don't think they have an AV and the HQ units are probably the most valuable

HQ units are usually the last to be destroyed and they hold the last of the supply the enemy has, even when all the fighting units are at 0. So if I catch your drift, once the Japanese AV at Pendleton is 0, Jocke could cease attacking and thus prevent those remaining units from being available for rebuilding.


Until they starve to death, which they will do, and are eliminated by attrition.



JocMeister -> RE: Chungking falls! (2/22/2017 4:47:28 AM)

June 11th -43
_____________________________________________________________________________

We continue to flip turns at a quite high rate which is really nice.

------------------------
SOPAC
------------------------
Horn Island is secured after the 3rd attack. Not sure I really needed the troops from the 2nd landing as bombardments and 4Es crumble the defenders.

quote:

Ground combat at Horn Island (91,128)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 7321 troops, 121 guns, 53 vehicles, Assault Value = 192

Defending force 4428 troops, 57 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 71

Allied adjusted assault: 88

Japanese adjusted defense: 8

Allied assault odds: 11 to 1 (fort level 3)

Allied forces CAPTURE Horn Island !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
724 casualties reported
Squads: 16 destroyed, 20 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 13 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 27 (27 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
200 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 17 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
29th Australian Brigade
11th NZ Brigade
3rd Pioneer Battalion
9th Marine Defense Battalion

Defending units:
II./90th Infantry Battalion
19th Naval Guard Unit
82nd Nav Gd /2
37th JNAF AF Unit
III./90th Infantry Battalion
4th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
10th Special Base Force
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Bn /1


We also bypass shortlands and land on Buin. Jeff has already started reinforcing it. I have a full division prepped although only parts of is landed. The rest of the Division is at Kirikara. I will ferry them in if needed.

Things are moving forward here although slowly. As intended.



[image]local://upfiles/32406/4BD0E96F696A4EDC99560706D3DFDEFA.jpg[/image]



JocMeister -> RE: Chungking falls! (2/22/2017 4:48:18 AM)

Burma
_____________________________________________________________________________

We havnīt made much gain here lately. Actually according to plan. More on that in a turn or two... [;)]

What havnīt gone according to plan though is Jeff cutting off 2 Australian divisions at Katha. I needed those to clear the flank. Dang. Good play by Jeff. There is no danger yet though. Supply is plentiful and forts are already at 3. Need to figure something out eventually though.

I think Jeff believes he is winning the air war here. He is playing aggressively and sweeping bases and last turn he even bombed Ledo. He is not achieving anything so I let him for now. Fun time is soon over for him here though! [sm=00000028.gif]

Big things happening shortly. Stay tuned... [:)]

[image]local://upfiles/32406/AB081C64A84B4B5384BA9A0759E51F0E.jpg[/image]



JocMeister -> RE: Chungking falls! (2/22/2017 7:08:04 AM)

Plane pools
_____________________________________________________________________________

I have never ever had such overflowing pools! [X(] I think this will come back and haunt Jeff in the coming months. This will give me a lot of room to maneuver and play aggressively. The P40K is very competitive in a PDU OFF environment and to have 260 of them in the pools. Also worth to not is the 60 Corsairs and 70 Lightnings! [X(]

[image]local://upfiles/32406/6D93CC717C4849B3A67F3B2BDA1A8C85.jpg[/image]



obvert -> RE: Chungking falls! (2/22/2017 9:36:30 AM)

Very mysterious in So Pac. i'm guessing this is not the main direction you'll be heading in the future? [;)]



JocMeister -> RE: Chungking falls! (2/22/2017 10:56:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Very mysterious in So Pac. i'm guessing this is not the main direction you'll be heading in the future? [;)]


That is a good guess. Iīll absolutely continue to push down here. I want to retake Darwin to force Jeff to defend the lower DEI.

But its not the main push. I will push in 5 directions but this wonīt be the strongest one. [:)]



obvert -> RE: Chungking falls! (2/22/2017 12:46:47 PM)

It's definitely a huge thorn in the Japanese position to be able to have Darwin and threaten along the entire southern DEI. Lots of bombing options from there too.

Wish my GJ game had played out longer. I had similar thoughts but didn't get to make them happen.



JocMeister -> Ramree invaded! (2/22/2017 4:01:39 PM)

Burma
_____________________________________________________________________________

I have been working quite hard on making Jeff focus on anything but Ramree for the last few months. From my earlier games I know this base is absolutely critical to get supply into Burma. So I need it.

Sending 4 divisions through the jungle in the north was a bit of a gamble. But Jeff took the bait and there are now 2-3 division worth of Japanese troops up there. I have only reconned Ramree twice for the last months. Latest intel was 3 units 3200 men. Havnīt installed Intel Monkey yet so Iīm going in somewhat blind. To compensate for that we are going in heavy. Very heavy.

Initially only the 1st Marines will land. They will unload from proper assault shipping and should land in good order. The 18th UK will follow. 17th and 19th Indian are reserves. I have a Corp/Command HQ combo fully prepped although I need to land the Corp for the bonus to take effect.

-------------------------------
Airforce
-------------------------------
This operation is the reason I have let Jeff play unhindered in the air in Burma for the last few weeks. I have been resting and building up the air force. Providing LRCAP over the amphibs are almost 200 planes. P40Ks, P38s and Corsairs. RAF is acting backup providing CAP for the rear bases for now.

Also have 180 4Es ready to start reducing Ramree to rubble together with the navy as soon as the LRCAP withdraws.

-------------------------------
Navy
-------------------------------
7 BBs and 9 CAs will provide cover from the sea. BBs initial task will be to suppress the defenders as fast as possible.




[image]local://upfiles/32406/3F46E6C807DA42B3BDDEA912BEB893D0.jpg[/image]



JocMeister -> RE: Ramree invaded! (2/22/2017 4:05:21 PM)

Burma
_____________________________________________________________________________

And if all things fail 100 P47s are currently unloading in India. Should be on the frontline in 5-7 days. Iīm not going to show them unless I have to though. [8D]

[image]local://upfiles/32406/5345BC7F082C415B970F9B98E4E3145F.jpg[/image]



BillBrown -> RE: Ramree invaded! (2/22/2017 4:09:23 PM)

I am curious, do you have BFs and construction engineers moving to Ramree Island. Building the port and airfield up is important also.



JocMeister -> RE: Ramree invaded! (2/22/2017 4:11:22 PM)

SOPAC
_____________________________________________________________________________

Lae is also invaded this turn. A much smaller landing consisting of the 298th Regiment and a Marine defense battalion. An even stronger CAP is over this TF though with 300 planes providing LRCAP from PM and Buna. 4 CAs will provide cover for the landing.



[image]local://upfiles/32406/8F034CFF93D141F5BA40EE2DF2C2BEAF.jpg[/image]



JocMeister -> RE: Ramree invaded! (2/22/2017 4:12:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

I am curious, do you have BFs and construction engineers moving to Ramree Island. Building the port and airfield up is important also.


Nothing that is prepped so I need the base to be captured before landing them. But yes, I have lots and lots of US engineers in India including some construction regiments.



JocMeister -> RE: Ramree invaded! (2/23/2017 4:00:54 AM)

Burma
_____________________________________________________________________________

Success! The landing in made without any opposition. And the defenders? A third of a RTA division. I wonīt even need the 18th UK. [:)]

quote:

Ground combat at Ramree Island (54,48)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2020 troops, 14 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 99

Defending force 14070 troops, 198 guns, 113 vehicles, Assault Value = 432

Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
4th RTA/A Division
22nd Special Base Force

Defending units:
1st Marine Division


[image]local://upfiles/32406/768FA60DAF0C4EFAA84AF9A79F37518F.jpg[/image]



JocMeister -> RE: Ramree invaded! (2/23/2017 4:05:11 AM)

Burma
_____________________________________________________________________________

There are some troops on the road. But hopefully nothing big. I have 6 divisions ready to exploit this so I really donīt want to get held up somewhere.

[image]local://upfiles/32406/431284B450A54A4BB969BE54A2F0C7C8.jpg[/image]



Lokasenna -> RE: Ramree invaded! (2/23/2017 5:23:31 AM)

The movement out of Ramree is so slow I would be very wary. Honestly, I'm not a fan of the place. If the defender is paying attention it isn't that useful.



JocMeister -> RE: Ramree invaded! (2/23/2017 6:42:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

The movement out of Ramree is so slow I would be very wary. Honestly, I'm not a fan of the place. If the defender is paying attention it isn't that useful.


Always the optimist... [;)]

Unless he has 2 full divisions I donīt know about it should be alright. If all things fail I have 4 divisions prepped for Moulmein. [:D]



Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Ramree invaded! (2/23/2017 10:07:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

The movement out of Ramree is so slow I would be very wary. Honestly, I'm not a fan of the place. If the defender is paying attention it isn't that useful.


Always the optimist... [;)]

Unless he has 2 full divisions I donīt know about it should be alright. If all things fail I have 4 divisions prepped for Moulmein. [:D]


FWIW, in our game, Lokasenna let me take it. I moved mass quantities in by sea and down from the north, using it for supply. Supply does flow out to the eastern hex just fine.

Then I tried to strong-arm him with a 500,000-plus stack in that hex one east of Ramree. Supply flowed, I had mucho tanks, mucho arty, etc. He stood in the jungle for months taking everything I could throw. I only began to move by going around, which took more months. It's August 1944 and I still don't have Rangoon.

It's a useful place, but it's not magical. And it can make you overconfident to have 400,000 supply at your back in a base that can't be reached by land except through one hexside.



jwolf -> RE: Ramree invaded! (2/23/2017 2:42:10 PM)

When you move from Ramree against the neighboring Japanese stack, will that trigger a shock attack?



Lokasenna -> RE: Ramree invaded! (2/23/2017 4:11:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

When you move from Ramree against the neighboring Japanese stack, will that trigger a shock attack?


Yes, which is why I advised caution and not to have rosy expectations.

Edit - I believe it is a river hexside, anyway. F6 would tell - if it's white or purple, it's a river.



jwolf -> RE: Ramree invaded! (2/23/2017 5:28:04 PM)

quote:

Edit - I believe it is a river hexside, anyway. F6 would tell - if it's white or purple, it's a river.


Yeah I keep trying that key on the forum picture but it doesn't work. [:'(]



bigred -> RE: Ramree invaded! (2/23/2017 6:56:36 PM)

bit of history. So watch out for that river crossing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ramree_Island

Crocodile attack
A saltwater crocodile

Some British soldiers, including naturalist Bruce Stanley Wright who participated in the battle, claimed the large population of saltwater crocodiles native to Ramree Island's mangrove swamps preyed on the trapped Japanese force at night and ate many soldiers. Wright gave a description in Wildlife Sketches Near and Far (1962), quoted by Frank McLynn,

That night [of the 19 February 1945] was the most horrible that any member of the M. L. [motor launch] crews ever experienced. The scattered rifle shots in the pitch black swamp punctured by the screams of wounded men crushed in the jaws of huge reptiles, and the blurred worrying sound of spinning crocodiles made a cacophony of hell that has rarely been duplicated on earth. At dawn the vultures arrived to clean up what the crocodiles had left.... Of about one thousand Japanese soldiers that entered the swamps of Ramree, only about twenty were found alive.
— Wright[11]

If Wright's claim is true the Ramree crocodile attacks are the worst in recorded history. The British Burma Star Association seems to lend credence to the swamp attack stories but appears to draw a distinction between the 20 Japanese survivors of one attack and the 900 Japanese who were left to fend for themselves in the swamp. There is no corroboration of the event by British military reports or by interviewed Japanese soldiers and local Burmese. As Wright's account is the only known source for the mass crocodile attack and his figures have been disputed by other historians, who call the event an urban myth.[12] On Wright's reporting of the Ramree events, McLynn wrote

Most of all, there is a single zoological problem. If 'thousands of crocodiles' were involved in the massacre, as in the urban (jungle) myth, how had these ravening monsters survived before and how were they to survive later? The ecosystem of a mangrove swamp, with an exiguous mammal life, simply would not have permitted the existence of so many saurians before the coming of the Japanese (animals are not exempt from the laws of overpopulation and starvation).
— McLynn[13]

In 1965, the British official history (volume IV, The Reconquest of Burma) had only referred to "crocodile-infested mangrove swamps".[8]



bigred -> RE: Chungking falls! (2/23/2017 7:17:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Plane pools
_____________________________________________________________________________

I have never ever had such overflowing pools! [X(] I think this will come back and haunt Jeff in the coming months. This will give me a lot of room to maneuver and play aggressively. The P40K is very competitive in a PDU OFF environment and to have 260 of them in the pools. Also worth to not is the 60 Corsairs and 70 Lightnings! [X(]

[image]local://upfiles/32406/6D93CC717C4849B3A67F3B2BDA1A8C85.jpg[/image]

Reminder is is possible to expand the naval air sqn to 90 plans and pilots. I convert all training naval air sqn to 90 planes.



JocMeister -> RE: Ramree invaded! (2/24/2017 6:11:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

When you move from Ramree against the neighboring Japanese stack, will that trigger a shock attack?


Yes it will. But I have Marines. It will work.

(I hope [:'(])



JocMeister -> RE: Chungking falls! (2/24/2017 6:13:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred
Reminder is is possible to expand the naval air sqn to 90 plans and pilots. I convert all training naval air sqn to 90 planes.


Thanks for the reminder. I try avoid the resizing though. I donīt like when the Japanese does that and as far as I can tell Jeff hasnīt. So I wonīt either. [:)]



JocMeister -> RE: Chungking falls! (2/24/2017 6:16:00 AM)

Short update:

Everything went very well. We now own Ramree. Turns out Jeff is blocking the river crossing. But its a lone division. The 1st Marines and 18th UK + 2 armored BDEs will brush them aside! I have 3 Indian divisions and 2 US Tank BDEs in reserve if needed.

We will prevail!

Off to celebrate my B-day tomorrow. Heading out to a resort with the wife today and no kids! Halleluja for sleep! [&o]



Canoerebel -> RE: Chungking falls! (2/24/2017 7:34:28 AM)

This sounds like a boondoggle in the making. Jeff's division will be in 3x terrain. If he brings up reinforcements expeditiously, there's a chance he can tie up a much larger force for a long, long time. So if you don't blow through the roadblock expeditiously, you'll chew your fingernails to the quick.

Ramree Island is a level 0(0) port in most mods but can be built to a level 8 airfield. It won't hold much supply early on and takes time to build.

Bullwinkle's description of Ramree is perfect: "It's a useful place, but it's not magical."

It can be very useful and sometimes almost nearly magical, depending on the particular circumstances in a game. As with any hex in the map it can become the single most important place if both sides deem it so or if one side takes it and the other side deems it most important and reacts violently, throwing troops and ships and aircraft against it.

I took Ramree in June '42 in my game with John III. What happened next was so distasteful to him that he said he would edit the base characteristics to lower it's airfield size in his future mods. I don't know if he did that but it's a testament to what value he placed on the enemy Allied airfield there and the great naval battles that ensued.



Canoerebel -> RE: Chungking falls! (2/24/2017 7:35:49 AM)

Happy Birthday, Jock!



obvert -> RE: Chungking falls! (2/24/2017 7:46:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Short update:

Everything went very well. We now own Ramree. Turns out Jeff is blocking the river crossing. But its a lone division. The 1st Marines and 18th UK + 2 armored BDEs will brush them aside! I have 3 Indian divisions and 2 US Tank BDEs in reserve if needed.

We will prevail!

Off to celebrate my B-day tomorrow. Heading out to a resort with the wife today and no kids! Halleluja for sleep! [&o]


OMG!! Have fun! I know now what you're talking about. A few nights of 8 hours are like gold. [&o]



obvert -> RE: Chungking falls! (2/24/2017 9:22:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I took Ramree in June '42 in my game with John III. What happened next was so distasteful to him that he said he would edit the base characteristics to lower it's airfield size in his future mods. I don't know if he did that but it's a testament to what value he placed on the enemy Allied airfield there and the great naval battles that ensued.


I don't mean to laugh, really, but seriously? Changing the capabilities of a base that has been thoroughly researched in order to make the game easier for one player! [X(]

If there were any doubts what that mod is about this should enlighten us. [:D]



BillBrown -> RE: Chungking falls! (2/24/2017 1:27:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I took Ramree in June '42 in my game with John III. What happened next was so distasteful to him that he said he would edit the base characteristics to lower it's airfield size in his future mods. I don't know if he did that but it's a testament to what value he placed on the enemy Allied airfield there and the great naval battles that ensued.


I don't mean to laugh, really, but seriously? Changing the capabilities of a base that has been thoroughly researched in order to make the game easier for one player! [X(]

If there were any doubts what that mod is about this should enlighten us. [:D]


It is true, in my BTS games Ramree Island has an airbase SPS of 1. I was surprised, since I expected it to be bigger. I know to look where I am going now.



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