RE: First Impressions?!?! (Full Version)

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con20or -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/10/2015 12:23:17 PM)

If you mean the buttons, context menus, etc it already is - a grog toolbar mod shipped with the game. Have a look in your modifications menu. The basic method of setting orientation is not moddable as far as I know.



sillyflower -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/10/2015 12:30:13 PM)

As a Englishman living in France I'm currently feeling very Waterloo'y and reading Bernard Cornwell's new book on the campaign. V excited about this new offering though the series is new to me. I'm not an ACW game fan.

However, from the video I saw on youtube this morning the game doesn't look much cop. Watched an inept french commander attack Hougemont by marching up inf in line (skirmishers left idle and no arty support) and kill/rout all the allied skirmishers in the woods outside the chateau (who just stood around in clumps) without losing a single man[sm=nono.gif]. A mockery of what actually happened with the french taking heavy losses from artillery file and musketry before the allied skirmishers retreated back into the chateau

Conclusion - french commander not that inept but game is. Am I wrong???? For once, I hope so



roy64 -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/10/2015 12:33:40 PM)

Yes I know about the grog toolbar but the buttons are to small at the moment, so it looks like we are stuck with the way we can move around the map.[:(]



roy64 -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/10/2015 12:44:04 PM)

I played that scenario many times & my french troops kept getting hammered. I keep sending them all over the place by mistake. It's very tricky/awkward to move the way you want to.



con20or -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/10/2015 12:48:16 PM)

You will lose quite a few men clearing those woods out - and if after clearing them you push on for Hougoumont (you are given the option to) fugeddaboutit [;)]



LittlePowell_NSD -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/10/2015 12:49:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: roy64

I played that scenario many times & my french troops kept getting hammered. I keep sending them all over the place by mistake. It's very tricky/awkward to move the way you want to.


Yes it can be overwhelming at first, especially if you are brand new to SOW games. I would suggest trying the tutorial as it is very small scale and teaches you the basics of movement. And from there, you can try small, brigade size sandbox battles--less pressure to complete objectives etc. and will get you acclimated to the game.



Pawsy -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/10/2015 12:55:02 PM)

quote:

conclusion - french commander not that inept but game is. Am I wrong???? For once, I hope so


You should expect to beat the AI, try a human if you want a challenge. The AI is there to help you learn the game.

I have won the first two scenarios as the French at Brigade level on normal. If your getting hammered - its you commander go hand in your chevrons. The allied forces were good and its noticeable that they adopt a different strategy each time you replay the scenario.

Not all allied and French commanders were competent and part of thats the intended fog of war is that they act according to their leadership quality. As a plus sometimes they reacted quicker and better than me! So expect imperfect execution of orders. Expect the cavelry to charge the squares without support as happened on the day. And if you know the battle then you will know that was conducted by one of the best French commanders.



roy64 -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/10/2015 12:59:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Little Powell


quote:

ORIGINAL: roy64

I played that scenario many times & my french troops kept getting hammered. I keep sending them all over the place by mistake. It's very tricky/awkward to move the way you want to.


Yes it can be overwhelming at first, especially if you are brand new to SOW games. I would suggest trying the tutorial as it is very small scale and teaches you the basics of movement. And from there, you can try small, brigade size sandbox battles--less pressure to complete objectives etc. and will get you acclimated to the game.


I have Scourge of War Gettysburg 150th Anniversary Collection (probably the best game I've played) so not new to SOW games. I've not totally given up yet, but I'm not far of it.



LittlePowell_NSD -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/10/2015 1:02:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: roy64


quote:

ORIGINAL: Little Powell


quote:

ORIGINAL: roy64

I played that scenario many times & my french troops kept getting hammered. I keep sending them all over the place by mistake. It's very tricky/awkward to move the way you want to.


Yes it can be overwhelming at first, especially if you are brand new to SOW games. I would suggest trying the tutorial as it is very small scale and teaches you the basics of movement. And from there, you can try small, brigade size sandbox battles--less pressure to complete objectives etc. and will get you acclimated to the game.


I have Scourge of War Gettysburg 150th Anniversary Collection (probably the best game I've played) so not new to SOW games. I've not totally given up yet, but I'm not far of it.


Understood. And one more thing, if you weren't already aware, there is a Grog toolbar mod in the modifications menu. Once enabled, it gives you a more classic GB feel, and with many more options.



roy64 -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/10/2015 1:09:07 PM)

It's not my commander who's incompetent, it's me, i cant get a grip with the damn controls [:D] I would struggle to play against my cat at the moment let alone against a human. [:D]




Redmarkus5 -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/10/2015 3:46:07 PM)

I downloaded to my Surface Pro as I'm on a business trip. Had the initial GUI problem until I adapted the .ini file, which fixed it.

Started the tutorial and watched as my infantry company marched straight through the walls of the main building of the walled farm, showing no interest in using the gate, as even a Total War unit will do. Given that the bloody struggle for the farm gates is one of the iconic images from the Waterloo battle, this was rather disconcerting.

Map looks great. Unit models look 'ok'. Will probably not play the game again until it's patched and modded.



Redmarkus5 -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/10/2015 3:48:48 PM)

I share your concerns, my old WitE friend!



histgamer -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/10/2015 7:12:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

As a Englishman living in France I'm currently feeling very Waterloo'y and reading Bernard Cornwell's new book on the campaign. V excited about this new offering though the series is new to me. I'm not an ACW game fan.

However, from the video I saw on youtube this morning the game doesn't look much cop. Watched an inept french commander attack Hougemont by marching up inf in line (skirmishers left idle and no arty support) and kill/rout all the allied skirmishers in the woods outside the chateau (who just stood around in clumps) without losing a single man[sm=nono.gif]. A mockery of what actually happened with the french taking heavy losses from artillery file and musketry before the allied skirmishers retreated back into the chateau

Conclusion - french commander not that inept but game is. Am I wrong???? For once, I hope so


Which scenario was it? I doubt he attacked and lost no one. Those troops generally give me some reasonable casualties but if it was WL01 where you command Baudin's force you don't get artillery under your command. I think a key part to remember is this game has the ability for you to play anything from Brigade commanders to Army so if you're playing a Brigade scenario you wont be commanding artillery around, your a cog in a giant war machine, that's part of the appeal of these games, feeling like your part of something much bigger.



ETF -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/10/2015 7:51:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Squid

I think i have played or owned just about every napoleonic game released over the last 20 years.

This is the best, bar none.


30 Years for me!! I agree! 2nd to none.



Rosseau -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/10/2015 8:42:26 PM)

Thank you Flanyboy and others for answers on the campaign question. That seems reasonable for me, and will only get better.

Other than the UI and formation questions, it seems a pretty smooth roll-out for a big game. I recall some "hiccups" with Total War releases that got absolutely vicious on Steam.

Redmarkus4's comments are a bit disconcerting, but he's merely waiting for the inevitable patches. So looks like a "go" and sorry if I went OT roy64 [;)]




AP514 -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/10/2015 10:26:36 PM)


"Are you having troubles learning the UI on the first day ??? Don't Whinne ....practice"


A Famous Quote from someone......



Sirlion -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/10/2015 10:45:16 PM)

Hello. It is my first time here and on the SoW series in general. I'm not a fan of the ACW but I'm a huge Napoleonic player and lover and I have to say I am really pleased to have this game. I was used to the Total War franchise so the controls are absolutely perfect for me because they really resemble them closely, with the micromanagement aspect as a good example of practical over realistic (when needed). I'm thrilled by the courier system and the AI behavior seems to be decent and even fairly competent at times. Being used to the horrible AI of the TW series this was a breath of fresh air. Also the interface is very easy to use and as a new player I cant wait to start modding deeper into more historical battles and interesting scenarios. I have to say, I already started adding new sounds and background pics (I'm not a fan of british propaganda at all costs) couldnt wait for tools XD. There is some minor bug such as small lag here and there and disappearing / flickering buildings and trees but I'm confident they will be solved in the future.

Bravo team, keep this up, you earned my money and my trust.



BletchleyGeek -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/10/2015 11:11:21 PM)

I am not a first comer, I have played pretty most of the games in the lineage of SOW Waterloo, all the way back to the Austerlitz (AUSTERLITZ!) game.

The game looks good, to be honest. Some wrinkles here and there, but one gets a good sense of immersion. There's some degree of abstraction - which I think it is reasonable - and indeed, the "uncanny valley" moment when you see people walking through walls is a bit weird. But, honestly, it is also weird to see the world to come packed in hexagons, men in neat boxy counters and firepower represented as a number :-)

Comparing the old user interface with the new one is like comparing a clunky and ponderous WW1 dreadnought with one of the new F-100 Alvaro de Bazan frigates. Several concepts which were just wrong (like the tabs, or the fact that in order to specify facing one had to do a ludicrous number of clicks) are gone for good. Thanks guys!

I read about some .ini hacks to get a polygon showing the footprint of the formation when issuing orders. Could a beta tester or other knowledgeable people start a sticky thread explaining that hack and other useful things?

Regarding the AI: I look forward very much to that modding AI sdk. I will be happy to take a crack at that.

Right now, as commented elsewhere, unless one takes command of each infantry regiment, I see them overreacting to all kinds of threats (imaginary or real) and hopelessly jumbling formations. This happened quite a bit on SOW Gettysburg 1.61 (so I don't play very often scenarios bigger than Division) when the lines get closed and some regiments rout and while falling back end up scattered all over the place. On the other hand, I see the infantry forming up into square as soon as they see some cavalry moving in their general direction. That was very important for me - infantry having that behaviour is one of the keystones of Napoleonic combined arms warfare.

On the other hand, the artillery and the cavalry seem to behave quite correctly. Most of my attention has been devoted to the infantry.

As per the Hougoumont video... well, a game where every given Sunday one gets exactly the same result for the same action isn't precisely a game I want to play. What if the Old Guard crowns that crest? The horror, maybe right now I wouldn't be writing this message in English, but French!



e_barkmann -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/11/2015 4:53:44 AM)

Just a note for SOW veterans struggling with the new gui. Stick with it.

My first couple of attempts felt like I had no control and was pressing all the wrong buttons and was completely lost.

Redid the tutorial (and read the words describing the gui controls carefully! In particular about right clicking for command stacking, that is cool), played a couple of scenarios and...suddenly it's coming together nicely. I am able to control my troops again as in the previous games. So perhaps old dogs can be taught..

And NSD are right, the new gui is FAST. Nice work guys.



roy64 -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/11/2015 7:11:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Merchant

Just a note for SOW veterans struggling with the new gui. Stick with it.

My first couple of attempts felt like I had no control and was pressing all the wrong buttons and was completely lost.

Redid the tutorial (and read the words describing the gui controls carefully! In particular about right clicking for command stacking, that is cool), played a couple of scenarios and...suddenly it's coming together nicely. I am able to control my troops again as in the previous games. So perhaps old dogs can be taught..

And NSD are right, the new gui is FAST. Nice work guys.


I'm slowly getting the hang of it now, commanding divisions now with some ease apart from the occasional accidental right click sending some troops right into the thick of it [:D]
Who ever made the grog toolbar THANK YOU [&o]



con20or -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/11/2015 7:38:50 AM)

Thanks for the compliments - i love the new UI too. I'll look into stickying this but if you add this paragraph to the top of the sowwl.ini file

[debug]
raklog=0
alphaomega=0
noai=0
drawtiles=1
dbglvl=0
benchmark=0
showfortmen=0
mplog=0

And set drawtiles=1 you can see the tiles on the ground. This isnt pretty - we use it for scenari design.



LittlePowell_NSD -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/11/2015 11:54:57 AM)

quote:


Redid the tutorial (and read the words describing the gui controls carefully!


This is true about the tutorial, it must be read carefully or it's easy to miss the details, like the command stacking--one of my favorite features. There are also gameplay videos on youtube now that can also help players that are still having trouble.

Good to see that most are getting the hang of it now. Thanks for all of the feedback. :)





e_barkmann -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/11/2015 12:20:22 PM)

just a quick question please. I note the destination orders adopt the formation type at the start of the march. eg if you select line and the unit is currently in column, it immediately forms line and then starts moving to destination. How would you order the unit to column march to destination and then form line, for instance

thanks



con20or -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/11/2015 12:24:54 PM)

Thus is related to proximity to the enemy. If they are near the enemy they will not move in march column.



ETF -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/11/2015 1:40:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grim.Reaper


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thorsten

quote:

ORIGINAL: roy64


quote:

moving the camera around the map is very awkward


True. And getting your troops where you want want them is nearly impossible with this (beschissenen (sorry)) green arrow.


This I agree with...trying to face your unit with the green arrow and selecting a precise spot on the map seems very tricky for some reason. As I try and drag the green arrow around, just feels like your fighting it.

I agree it is tricky.....I have done it now about 70 times. About 50% it works perfectly for me... :)



ETF -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/11/2015 1:41:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AP514


"Are you having troubles learning the UI on the first day ??? Don't Whinne ....practice"


A Famous Quote from someone......



And read the manual :)
I'm bad for that sometimes lol



Templer_12 -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/12/2015 7:32:26 AM)

Changing the viewing direction of a unit repeatedly is extremely cumbersome and annoying.
Click the flag - click WheelLeft/WheelRight, click the flag - click WheelLeft/WheelRight, click the flag - click WheelLeft/WheelRight... [sm=00000018.gif]

Thankfully, the known keyboard shortcuts (,) and (.) are still in use.



con20or -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/12/2015 8:01:57 AM)

Changinf facing is primarily done with the right click/drag/orientate method now - the wheel left/wheel right is for small adjustments in combat.



Templer_12 -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/12/2015 10:28:43 AM)

Something that isn't really important, but I have to mention it, during march the soldiers have a waddling gait.



Champagne -> RE: First Impressions?!?! (6/12/2015 1:51:20 PM)

My first impression was affected by the fact that I didn't know that Webroot, my AV was causing lag problems.

Now that I've solved that problem, I can express my actual first impression, which is: Thank You for this creation. I prefer Napoleonic to ACW, so, I'm really grateful for SOWWL.

I hope that you can find ways to publish more Nappy games and continue to refine the game engine for Nappy War.



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